Reddonquixote's BAT thread

[gutterclub 2,729]

Ahhh, Melbourne Central Tower, my old place of work when I used to live in Melbourne..looking forward to this.

[Odainsaker 2,134]

Another Kurokawa Kisho building making its way into SimCity. The Nakagin Capsule Building is probably his most famous, while Melbourne Central is one of his larger projects.

I had read somewhere that recent renovations had radically altered the design of the building's mall base, but, I hadn't realized how radical. Originally, the building followed Kurokawa's Brutalist-inspired Metabolist theories, where a uniform, modular structure supports an agglomeration of elements. In this case, the modular bays of the reinforced-concrete frame are enclosed, glazed, or even left open as needed, with the image created that they can be extended or adjusted following the growth or retreat of the building and its occupancy. You can still see this modular frame in reddonquixote's third and fourth images, and that same side here:

That used to be the 1980s, Japanese-imported megastructure aesthetic all around the building. Below is an older, more restrained image of the mall corner before renovation...you can just see to the right side the inverted, semi-conical glass entrance that mirrored the giant atrium cone--at that time, primary shapes were all the rage among Japanese architects.

That same corner after the Japanese pulled out and the building was yet again re-renovated:

I would never have guessed these were all part of the same complex!

Poor Kurokawa Kisho, who redefined Japanese architectural late modernism in the 1970s and 1980s...many of his landmark commercial buildings in Japan have long been demolished in the relentless retail drive to stay cutting-edge, while his overseas buildings are becoming unrecognizable.

[Jasoncw 11,840]

So for materials, one thing is that ALL materials except for glass (or water, etc.) should have ambient occlusion turned on. I like to use a radius of about 4 m. The default number of samples of 16 is fine to leave as-is, but you can lower it if the scene is running slow. There are scripts around online for doing this to all the materials in the scene at once. Just do a before and after render for yourself for the ambient occlusion and you'll see the difference.

[ROFLyoshi 1,760]

Obligatory question, will this have subway functionality?

And if you are modelling the shot tower underneath, it'd make a great standalone building.

[Reddonquixote 4,338]

Thanks for positive responses everyone

 

Thanks also Odainsaker for very informative background information

 

CityMaster - the total lot size is 14x6, but not sure yet whether this will be one export or separate exports. Also not sure whether I need to model the Shot Tower, its not really visible per se, but its presence may contribute to the overall glass effect on the cone. At most, I think I'd only need to model the chimney stack. So Yoshi, I guess that answers that, no it won't be a separate BAT. But yes, it will have subway functionality. I'm thinking probably two, one at the Elizabeth Street entrance, and one at the Latrobe Street entrance.

 

So, I've been experimenting with Ambient Occlusion. I've learnt a radius less than 4m has no discernable effect (I think my art deco BATs were all set to 1m ). Also, anything higher than 8m doesn't look any different to 8m. However, 8m produces a slighty better result than 4m. i.e. 4m is the lowest you should go, 8 is the highest.

 

What seems to work even better is an Ambient/Reflective Occlusion shader added to the Diffuse Map. This brings out even more of the fine details. For instance, in the B&W image, the fourth render on the far right you can see the ridges on the forward facing airconditioning duct, and that little bauble shape off to the left has much more delineation around the base, and you can see more of the mechanicals under the ducting towards the rear. The only thing I did to the shader settings is reduce the Bright colour swatch value to 0.8 so it wasn't 100% white. Other than that they are just default settings.

 

 

The next trick then becomes how to make it not be just B&W. To combine the AO shader with a bitmap texture I used an RGB Mulitlpy shader in the diffuse slot, the first map is the AO shader, and the 2nd map is just a bitmap I had. Obviously this won't be the texture I use, it was just for experimentation purposes, but I think this Ambient Occlusion method produces a pretty great result.

 

 

Let me know what you think

[ausa07 66]

Wow looks likes it's coming along great Red   
I also hope you make Coop's Shot Tower visible through the glass roof in the final product!
I also recall you telling me that this will have subway functionality just like the real thing.  Hopefully it will have a large enough capacity   

I can't wait for the release of this.  It brings back memories...  Commuting through the city loop.  Meeting up with friends.  I worked there once before too when I was in school... though I definitely enjoyed the place better as a non-employee 

Anyways, keep up the great work!

 

EDIT:  Was typing this before you replied and didn't hit send... That's okay if you don't include the tower, but I still think it would be a nice finishing touch if you have the time 

[Jasoncw 11,840]

For ambient occlusion you'll want to just use the built in ambient occlusion in the arch & design material. And if rendering times aren't bad, or if the ambient occlusion appears unnaturally black you can check the checkbox about using accurate colors. By default the ambient occlusion color is either the color swatch you've selected or the global color, but with this checkbox checked the color will be based on the color of the objects that are occluding it.

 

The ambient occlusion map can be used in the diffuse slot but that is for adding grime, not for simulating lighting. For that I would recommend using a Composite map in the diffuse slot, and then using the ambient occlusion as a mask. This lets you use a grime texture, and it also gives more control over the blending. Another alternative (that I don't think is really necessary is using the Mix material), and then making two different materials. This would only need to be done if the grime and the material underneath had drastically different properties.

 

But in general the lighting (including the AO) on your building doesn't look right to me. It makes me wonder if the reflectivity and glossiness are too high for the material (about 0.2/0.2 works well for almost all materials for BATing). Or maybe it's something with max, because on the top three floors of the building on the right side where there's the inside corner of the elevator/stairs core, you can see the ambient occlusion, but it's not there in front of the windows. It almost looks like the window frames are reflecting onto the walls there, but they don't do it when AO is turned off.

[Reddonquixote 4,338]

Thanks for your help Jason. Appreciate it! Couple of things I didn't quite understand.

 

Perhaps first thing though is where you pointed out the AO is not in front of the windows, that's just the light refracting through the transparent glass material. When I apply a non-transparent material to the glass panes, that lightness goes away. I guess why it doesn't happen in the non-AO rendering is that the shadows aren't dark enough to see it.. not sure. In terms of the reflectivity in the material, for the tests it was a purely matte material with a reflectivity of zero. I didn't want reflections to interfere with the AO effects.

 

Is that the only issue you can see, or are there other issues? the reason I ask is that I thought using the AO shader in the diffuse slot produced a really great result. I get that it might not be what it was intended to be used for, but if it looks good, then why wouldn't you use it that way? I feel like I've missed the point of your post somehow...

 

Either, you're saying the result doesn't look good, but I'm not clear why... or you're simply pointing out that it wasn't meant to be used that way... but does that mean I can't?

[Jasoncw 11,840]

So the difference is that the goal of ambient occlusion is to create a lighting effect, not to just add eyeliner to all the crevices on the bat.

 

AO is something that's supplemental to the lighting system.

 

http://mentalraytips.blogspot.com/2008/11/joy-of-little-ambience.html   This page explains the background of ambient occlusion, although it's old (today all there is to it is turning on the built-in AO and choosing a radius).

 

As the article mentions, the light itself (in this case the sun and also the sky lights) are already starting off with a form of occlusion. If there's an object in between an area and a light, then that object is occluding the light from that area, and so that area is in shadow. So all of the occlusion related to direct light is already handled by the actual lighting system. Ambient occlusion is for ambient lighting, so it's mainly about adding definition to shadowed areas. It's also about simulating shadows in areas that are too fine for the normal lighting to handle without really high setting and render times (crevices and contact shadows).

 

Adding the AO effect in the diffuse slot is equivalent to the "Doing it the WRONG Way" section of the link (rendering a separate AO pass and using the Multiply blending mode in photoshop to add it to the image). It makes all those areas darker regardless of the lighting. It also disregards the effect that the colors of the objects would have on the color of the shadows. The built in AO takes the lighting into account and has a more resource intensive option for using accurate colors which is needed when the shadows shouldn't be black.

 

But the AO map that you used is still something that can be useful because you can use it as a mask for adding grime to the corners of things. In fact for the V-Ray renderer, the ambient occlusion map that comes with it is actually called a Dirt map, because that's what it's really used for.

[Reddonquixote 4,338]

Ah ok, thanks, thats much clearer. Basically, its unnaturally dark. I thought with something the size of a BAT where all the detail gets lost because of its size a lighting trick like this helps bring the details out more. I guess I'm going for greater realism though. Thanks!

 

Ps. Thanks for replying. Its only by asking direct questions and getting good answers that we make sense of this information. Much appreciated!

[Reddonquixote 4,338]

While working on the textures for Melbourne Central I became more and more enamoured of the building across the street, the State Library of Victoria. I was compelled to start modelling it!

 

It was a bit more than I could manage to finish this weekend so here is a sneak preview:

 

[Xander Dax 310]

WOW Amazing! , you never fail to astonish with your brilliant work.

[Ferrt 102]

Wow! That's just amazing! 

[ROFLyoshi 1,760]

While working on the textures for Melbourne Central I became more and more enamoured of the building across the street, the State Library of Victoria. I was compelled to start modelling it!

 

It was a bit more than I could manage to finish this weekend so here is a sneak preview:

 

...and then you'll do that really ugly RMIT building..?

These are looking really fantastic. I wish I could help you out on these projects.

[T Wrecks 10,209]

*prfffftt* 

 

"a bit more than I could manage this weekend". Yeah.   I don't even know what to say, it's so drop-dead gorgeous so far. Far more than any clay model has the right to be, that's for sure.

[urielgarcia 344]

Someone help me - I've fallen and can't get up!!!!!!  The Library is jaw dropping!      Your are an awesome batter Red, but you knew that already! 

[Scaley McSlither 1,714]

God in Heaven, you are ridiculously skilled!!!!

[Ro-Bo 183]

*gasp*

[ausa07 66]

While working on the textures for Melbourne Central I became more and more enamoured of the building across the street, the State Library of Victoria. I was compelled to start modelling it!

 

It was a bit more than I could manage to finish this weekend so here is a sneak preview:

 

I remember I used to sit out on the lawn of the State library all the time.  Whether I was reading a book, there for a function or rally, on a date or just on lunch break it really is a pleasant place to absorb the city around you.

Since it's a civic building will it function as a library in game?

[Darknono35 3,137]

Oops, I've no words !

[Reddonquixote 4,338]

Thanks everyone!

 

Evan, I was thinking it will probably have the same stats as a Main Library, but just as a ploppable and not a Reward.

 

Fyi - the lot size will be 12x6.

[Sloonei 25]

That building 

[dubaidude303 1,119]

Wow!!!! Stunning! :-)

[Delecto 941]

This is... big.

[RepublicMaster 428]

It's absolutely amazing!

 

Great work so far.

[Jack_wilds 550]

concerning scale... its all promising trusting that it will look right and good in play and not be 'over-sized' or squashed... a few large projects as this suffered from scale in consistent with the game... falling with in the acceptable range of scale-n-play... other wise, will be watching the updates...

[Bipin 3,402]

Great work as always. Keep chugging along!

[Reddonquixote 4,338]

Scale will be normal game scale, it's just big lot because the library takes up a whole city block.

Thankyou for continued nice comments

[ROFLyoshi 1,760]

Scale will be normal game scale, it's just big lot because the library takes up a whole city block.

Thankyou for continued nice comments

Yep, it's a rather imposing building!

Can't wait for the textures on this. Has a bit of a resemblance to Parliament House.

[Aaron Graham 4,417]

OMG!!!!! Great Work!!!!