Linux Corner

[Ocram's Razr 963]

I use an Apple iPhone, a Windows 7 PC (Gateway, originally Vista), a Linux Mint Laptop (Dell) and use Google for a lot of things. I have experience with dealing with a wide variety of products from different companies but really, Microsoft, Apple and Google form a Triopoly and perform various anticompetitive tactics.

--Ocram

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Linux/wine improves quite a bit today with the distribution of wine-1.5.22 on Ubuntu 12.10 (GNU/Linux 3.5.0-22-generic x86_64). Ran SC4 today in hardware mode for 1 hour and 46 minutes before the text boxes in menus and popups got clobbered. Worked on three of the cities in my region. Back to software mode, however.

I am using the X-org default HD driver for my graphics chip because AMD has quit supporting it on Linux Kernel 3.5 and later. My mobo is only 3 years and a bit old. You'd think that things wouldn't have come to this already. However, the default X-org driver on Ubuntu 12.10 is just fine thank you.

The problem remains that wine somehow steps on some of the embedded windows controls after a while. Today's test shows a considerable improvement. Prior to this, hardware mode was also very laggy.

[Alejandro24 575]

I'm still using Wine 1.4, it has a great performance with SC4, therefore I don't want to change the version.

I use an Apple iPhone, a Windows 7 PC (Gateway, originally Vista), a Linux Mint Laptop (Dell) and use Google for a lot of things. I have experience with dealing with a wide variety of products from different companies but really, Microsoft, Apple and Google form a Triopoly and perform various anticompetitive tactics.

--Ocram

That's interesting, I would not discuss about the incompatibility of the Apple products with Linux, my sister has an iPhone, and I have tested it in Linux... the worst combination possible. I use a Sony Ericsson phone with Android, my netbook Dell uses Linux Mint 14 KDE and Windows 7, and my desktop computer uses Linux Mint 14 MATE and Windows XP. But I have dispensed of Windows since I write in Latex, use MATLAB and SC4 in Linux. I really don't need Windows, I keep it there and I don't know why.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Fine. There was a problem with my 1.4 distro, so I switched to the beta. I'll keep testing and let people know. Alejandro, are you able to run in hardware rendering? I suspect my problem with it is machine related. I might have to spring for a new GPU. Considering the age of my central system, I might just spring for a new box altogether. Something with six processor cores would be nice, I think, just for fun. That means I'd have to have 12 GB of RAM too. Could be expensive, even naked.

[hym 358]

Considering the age of my central system, I might just spring for a new box altogether. Something with six processor cores would be nice, I think, just for fun. That means I'd have to have 12 GB of RAM too. Could be expensive, even naked.

If the cost of RAM is anything like it is around here, 12GB of RAM will run you about $75. The CPU, on the other hand, could be very expensive. My quad-core was $350.

[Ionic-Elm 13]

Just recently accquired a Dell PowerEdge CS24-SC that I'm renting out from a datacenter. It's running Ubuntu Server 12.10, smooth so far! I'm hosting a SimCity site on it.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Considering the age of my central system, I might just spring for a new box altogether. Something with six processor cores would be nice, I think, just for fun. That means I'd have to have 12 GB of RAM too. Could be expensive, even naked.

If the cost of RAM is anything like it is around here, 12GB of RAM will run you about $75. The CPU, on the other hand, could be very expensive. My quad-core was $350.

And there is a border between you and me. I expect a new complete system (no peripherals, no operating software) will probably cost me between $1,000 and $1,500. I may wait until fall and give myself a nice birthday present.

[Alejandro24 575]

Fine. There was a problem with my 1.4 distro, so I switched to the beta. I'll keep testing and let people know. Alejandro, are you able to run in hardware rendering? I suspect my problem with it is machine related. I might have to spring for a new GPU. Considering the age of my central system, I might just spring for a new box altogether. Something with six processor cores would be nice, I think, just for fun. That means I'd have to have 12 GB of RAM too. Could be expensive, even naked.

Yeah, I can run SC4 in hardware rendering, but the computer becomes slowly and the graphics looks like extracted from a newspaper. I think is a problem of Wine to recognize the graphical hardware, because it happens in my netbook and desktop computer.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Have you looked at the wine console log? SC4 wants more than two graphics buffers, and wine provides only 2. I suspect that because of this the graphics degrade over time. This is what happened in my most recent test. Eventually all the lot objects turn into RGB blots and the background on the menus and the text boxes becomes blank. The text itself becomes illegible. Doesn't happen on software rendering.

Because I have used two different drivers for my graphics (fglrx and the default one for X-org) and this still occurs, I am ruling out the driver and laying this problem at the door of wine. There is still a lot of open water between wine and even XP.

Here is a sample log from software mode. The file for hardware overwrites the same file, so I don't have it at the moment.

fixme:win:EnumDisplayDevicesW ((null),0,0x32ef74,0x00000000), stub!

fixme:win:EnumDisplayDevicesW ((null),0,0x32eec4,0x00000000), stub!

fixme:win:EnumDisplayDevicesW ((null),0,0x32f504,0x00000000), stub!

fixme:winediag:AUDDRV_GetAudioEndpoint Winepulse is not officially supported by the wine project

fixme:winediag:AUDDRV_GetAudioEndpoint For sound related feedback and support, please visit http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1960599

fixme:win:EnumDisplayDevicesW ((null),0,0x32f4e4,0x00000000), stub!

fixme:win:EnumDisplayDevicesW ((null),0,0x32f4e4,0x00000000), stub!

fixme:d3d_surface:wined3d_surface_flip Ignoring flags 0x1.

fixme:imm:ImmGetOpenStatus (0x1007e180): semi-stub

fixme:imm:ImmReleaseContext (0x10060, 0x1007e180): stub

The blue items show the fix for audio, and it works quite well. It has not arrived in wine, officially. Policy problem, I think.

The red line is probably the trouble. There is something funny about ignoring commands like this.

BTW, this is one of the problems you get when you use a Microsoft lock-in like DirectX. If the OpenGL code was any good, I would use it but it produces garbage. That entire area needs a rewrite or a thorough debugging.

[Ionic-Elm 13]

Just loaded Debian 6 on my dedicated server cause Ubuntu was wasting RAM, and I needed to re-configure some things. Good so far.

I hope I configured fstab correctly for the second HDD.... :|

[Alejandro24 575]

Linux users want games and they’re ready to pay for them. Steam and gaming in Linux Mint.

Also, Linux Mint 15 will be named Olivia, featuring the classic 4 desktops of LM: Cinnamon, MATE, KDE, XFCE.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

As I recall, Steam made a big announcement when they got there stuff ported to Linux. Anyone know what happens with them on MAC?

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

 Subsequent to the above, there is a BBC article on Linux and Valve.

 

Now the question is are the games native mode or do they need wine?

[astronelson 339]

From the looks of the Team Fortress 2 page on it, they run natively.
 

Also you get a free in-game penguin cosmetic item, which in itself is almost making me consider giving Ubuntu another chance (I had to use it during one of my first-year courses, didn't like it much).

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

The thing about Ubuntu is that you may not be very happy with the default desktop.  With very little effort you can switch to a different one.  I use the GNOME Classic desktop which is more in-line with using menus rather than a screen full of icons.

 

The main point of Linux is that it runs pretty much on any platform, can easily be dual booted except, I've heard some nasty things about Windows 8 which are unsubstantiated as far as I know.  Something about W 8 doing something to the MFT to stop other O/S from being added to the system.  If true, it is a piker attitude.

 

If you decide to try Linux, install it in parallel with your existing system.  You can then play around to your heart's content.  The General Unified Bootloader (GRUB) gives you 10 seconds to choose a system to boot.  Defaults to the most recently loaded Linux.  You can access (read/write) any NTFS files, and copy them to native if you want.  Version updates every six months if you wish, but if you go with one of the long term support editions, you are good for three years.

 

Then there is the main point.  The O/S is free and supported.

 

Almost all of the 50K+ apps are also free.  The system includes an automatic backup which can easily be activated.  You can have the backups in the Ubuntu One Cloud or wherever else you like.  I use a separate free-standing HDD.  There is a virus scanner (CLAM-AV) with automatic updates (never caught a problem yet) and a firewall (UFW).  Since Linux isn't a usual hacker target, it is window dressing but I use them both.

 

You can use the groupware (default) for e-mail or download your own client.  I use Mozilla Thunderbird with the lightning calendar plugin.  Works a treat.  The default browser is Firefox but you can use Chromium (Linux Chrome) or one of several others.

 

The default office suite is Libre Office.  This is a liberated version of Open Office which is now owned by Oracle.

 

Development tools are legion.  Best is the GNU stuff, all free.

 

Two facilities are available to run Windows executables: wine (Windows Executive) for x86 executables and mono for executables generated for the .NET environment.

 

I run SC4 under wine.  There are a few glitches that force me, probably due to my hardware, to run in software rendering.  However with a different graphics processor it may run fine. 

 

Another reference for this is Alejandro24 who runs Linux Mint which is a different distribution but derived from Ubuntu.  With Linux, to each his own.  I wasn't enamoured of Mint when I tried it for a month, and you may want to try other distributions as well.  Both of these are rooted in Debian.  I found Debian to be just a little too much like working in a university lab.

 

So you may find this quite different from what you tried originally.  However, it does take some determination to jump ship from Microsoft.  Major tools are different, but functionally equivalent.  After all, a computer is a computer and can only do so many things usually in the same way if with a slightly different viewpoint.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

And the good news is that the guys developing wine have finally got a version that lets me run hardware rendering on my machine.

 

Ubuntu 12.10 (GNU/Linux 3.5.0-25-generic x86_64)
wine-1.5.25

 

Generic driver for Xorg since my Radeon 3000 chip is no longer supported on Linux by AMD.  Runs my DVI monitor just fine thank you.

 

Ran for an hour and a half today on hardware rendering and aside from some texture problems when zoning or laying down network stuff, it was fine.  Some work may still be needed, but it is usable.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Ubuntu (Linux) spreads to China.

 

One billion new hackers?  I hope not.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

NAM V31 Installer under wine.

 

To get this to run properly for a custom install, you  will need the full development libraries for Visual Studio 2010 including all the latest versions of the Rich Text controls: riched30 and riched32 as well as msflxgrd, mhflxgrd and vcrun06 (to run the game).  All available from the winetricks utility.

[Alejandro24 575]

NAM V31 Installer under wine.

 

To get this to run properly for a custom install, you  will need the full development libraries for Visual Studio 2010 including all the latest versions of the Rich Text controls: riched30 and riched32 as well as msflxgrd, mhflxgrd and vcrun06 (to run the game).  All available from the winetricks utility.

And this is how it looks:

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

yes, but you should try a custom install.  The hierarchical text stuff is what finally did the trick.

[Alejandro24 575]

yes, but you should try a custom install.  The hierarchical text stuff is what finally did the trick.

Is a custom install, I've selected all the components that I wish to install (that could be around 90% of all them, with european textures). If is that means a custom install.

 

I've downloaded Linux Mint Debian 201303, cinnamon 32 bits. I'm going to test it, just as I finished my vacations homework XD.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Are you sticking with 32-bit decor?  I am running 64-bit on Ubuntu with GNOME Classic desktop.  The wine decor for Windows 7 dumps your game into the C: drive complete with a user area so that the whole business winds up under the wine prefix.  Makes the whole works invisible unless you are inside the wine prefix.

[moaku 74]

Many ubuntu fans in this thread...

I hope you don't mind using a distro bundled with a spyware enabled by default

http://www.fsf.org/blogs/rms/ubuntu-spyware-what-to-do

Basically, all your local searches thru your "start menu" will be sent to amazon.

It's easyly disablable, but it's still a behaviour not "linuxish" at all.

I'd recommand switching to other distros just for the principe. (I'm a gentoo fan personnally... but it may not be the most suited distro for the average user)

 

Btw, why so much bashing about win8? I can understand this on "kiddies forums", but I was surprised to read that on simtropolis... Once you tweak it a bit and install a third party "welcome screen + start menu" replacement, it looks just like Win7, except IO Management has been considerably improved since win7, resulting in performances gains and better reaction times. It's also much less "heavy-looking" than win7. Yes the default UI sucks... but an os isn't just an UI. You should look it taking a step backward.

 

About the SC4 crappy "Hardware rendering" perfs on wine, don't worry too much, i'm almost certain wine handles "Windows software-rendered gfx" with it's accelerated opengl libs. at least my gpu was getting hotter than in idle while playing sc4 in software rendering thru wine, which isn't supposed to happen if it was really "software-rendered".

Btw, i'm quite enthusiast over Steam Linux. Just for it to succeed, I sincerely hope, even if not planning to buy one myself because i'd have no use to it, that their gaming "consoles" aka Steamboxes will succeed commercially to stimulate devs/editors to provide more linux-native binaries with their games. btw sorry Moose, but I don't think a native binary for SC4 will ever be released, or it would be a crappy conversion using disassembling + recompiling, which would provide almost same results than when using wine, let's stay realistic

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

The problem with Win 8 has been the hyperthyroidic advertising as if it were something new.  It is, in fact, the same old emperor in some new clothes and some parts have been dropped to make room for some of the desktop features.  The kernel is labelled NT 6.2.

 

I don't see Microsoft doing anything much to this kernel because there are too many things dependent on it.  Windows 8 caused a flap because new users and never before users didn't know enough about computers to realize that they were getting the same old stuff with new clothing on.  Some of the tricks they pulled on the gullible public were rather shameful.

 

As for searches going to Amazon, I really don't care.  I don't search from Linux anyway.  Are you saying it intercepts Google?

[moaku 74]

No, I mean it's intercepting your LOCAL searches when using the gnome "start" menu for example.

(for the sake of Ads Targetting accuracy of course... just like some site does when browsing and tracking with cookies, except it's on your local searches this time...)

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

I don't do searches, and I use the GNOME classic desktop.  I guess they are just out of luck.  I don't see a gnome start menu.

[Alejandro24 575]

I catch the point. When you do a search from the Unity's search bar, not from the GNOME one. Shell has a similar bar, but Classic don't own a bar like that.

Ubuntu is not using directly GNOME, they're using Unity, their own desktop. I'm not surprised of this, because Ubunty is the most commercial and pop Linux ever, also is very knew the relationship between Canonical and Amazon.

But of course, It is not outrageos as your government is spying all of us. That's how work a system that denies to change.

 

I have tested LMDE 201303, I really like it a lot, but I never found where to install the wifi drivers of my computer. I reccomend this OS to you Nonny, you will like it.

[Alejandro24 575]

GNOME 3.8 released, between all the features, GNOME Classic has been rebuilt not as a fork.

And this is interesting: a clone of MS Office for Linux.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Well, if it is on 13.04, I'll test it.  I am getting too set in my ways to switch to another Linux decor.  it is a lot of work.

[Alejandro24 575]

Ubuntu 13.04 released today. With a complete family and 10 things to do after installing it.