Speculation & Discussion

[Mister Giggles 310]

Mbm wants us to plan ahead.

[Hellken 1,658]

Mbm wants us to plan ahead.

I understand. But the game is still in pre - alpha right now.

[rweather5 22]

It isn't a simcity game without zoning. How could you want no zoning? What's the challenge of the game if you just plop everything?

  Edited October 6, 2012 by rweather5  

[bigro 165]

Hello.

I have suggestigetaion to the first mod for Simcity 2013 to be modded please if you can mod it so mod it. The ploppables mod it should allow you to place building by building and no zoning. I really hate zoning!!

It mod should also to allow you to switch between zoning and building.

Please mod it when the Simcity 2013 will be released i want this mod so much.

Thank you

You know SimCity Societies lacks zoning. You should look into that!

[Mister Giggles 310]

Mbm wants us to plan ahead.

I understand. But the game is still in pre - alpha right now.

Haha, I was being sarcastic. Can't even be sure that kind of modding will be possible.

[Tramwhet 53]

so we can replace all textures by HD textures of real life and get amazing graphics, no ?

sorry for my english

[spiritbw 111]

With all this talk of cloud saves and requiring an online connection hard to say. So long as the resources that hold the textures on users computer, it should be pretty easy to reskin existing models.

[nukeu123 307]

dont you think it will be hard to mod a game that has yet to be released to the public?

[cirugo 1,889]

I would expect that would be all you'll be able to do...that was the case with Societies and, to a lesser extent, the Sims 3.

[Mithrik 562]

I would expect that would be all you'll be able to do...that was the case with Societies and, to a lesser extent, the Sims 3.

Well, we are talking about Maxis here, I think they would give something better than that, at least something along the lines of the Lot Editor.

Modding in those two games is somewhat difficult, from what I know, and neither was developed by Maxis, except in the early stages, so I think that modding being limited to re-skins only, is a bit on the unlikely side.

[McDuff 1]

I'd expect the modding capabilities on this to eventually include everything down to Glassbox scripting. Not straight away, fine, but certainly after the first major update. Give this a couple of years and I'm sure modders will be creating some spectacular stuff for it that blows anything you can do on the SC4 engine out of the water.

[fatbuster 44]

Another developer seems to have joined the forums on the official site (Not sure if he's been around here yet). He left an interesting response to someone's question about mod support:

We understand how important modding has been to the SimCity community and some of the amazing things that have been created, but as we've said, we have nothing to announce regarding mod support. Instead of simply asking if such and such modding will be possible, why don't you tell us how you'd like to see modding support enabled in a multiplayer environment? Modding is very much a community effort so shouldn't it be you guys that tell us how you'd like to see modding implemented?

I guess this would be good time to start letting them know what we are looking for with mod support. It also seems like they still have to figure out how it should be implemented in a multiplayer environment.

Here's the post in case anyone wants to look at it or post.

[Ocram's Razr 963]

At first, the only thing possible would be cloning buildings by changing textures, props and lots with the same exact statistics. After that, there will be importing of 3D models and making new buildings with all new appearances with the same exact statistics as some building already in the game. After that, more unique buildings and roads could be made. After that, new resources could be made. After that deeper mods, *might* be able to be made. This is how things went with SimCity 4 (Lot Editor, then Building Architect Tool, gmax/BatMax, then modding tools like iLiveReader, new mods like super demand mods, ordinance replacements, and the NAM). This is how things are going for Cities XL. This is not a 100% certain hypothesis but the Glass Box engine is designed to be heavily modifiable.

--Ocram

[Jokurr 175]

That developer poses a difficult question to answer. Modding a multiplayer game where a good amount of the game files are stored server side is not easy. I've yet to figure out how someone could build mods that fundamentally alter gameplay without access to save files.

[Ombedor 23]

That developer poses a difficult question to answer. Modding a multiplayer game where a good amount of the game files are stored server side is not easy. I've yet to figure out how someone could build mods that fundamentally alter gameplay without access to save files.

Yes, it id a difficult question, but I'm not sure the challenge is solely getting access to save files.

I think he is implying that mods in a multi-player game face additional challenges of fairness, scope, compatibility, and distribution that are simply not a consideration when modding a single player game.

- A mod shouldn't give a specific player advantages or disadvantages when it comes to interacting with other players in the region or on the global market.

- Should mods be installed in individual cities, regions, or globally? In other words, what is the correct scope for a mod, and who controls which mods get installed at each scope?

- Installing different mods on cities in the same region could be the source of compatibility nightmares for the simulator acting on agents from neighboring cities.

- Will I have the right mods installed to view one of my neighbor's cities? If not, how does the system distribute those mods to my computer? How do mods get disabled when I go back to my city? How can this be done a seamlessly as possible? Should we require all cities in a region have the same mods to reduce load delays?

  Edited October 17, 2012 by Ombedor  

[damaindude 6]

Sourcing the community for buildings must be tempting for Maxis, its a cheap way to add diversity to the game and prevent it from going stale. So by that logic, we should see a BAT tool sometime (or plugin to a CAD application). I am curious if any of the community's master builders like Jenx has been approached to create content and what tools Maxis used to create the buildings that will be shipped with the game. Videos has shown a city style feature, something batters really could exploit if given the right tools

[fatbuster 44]

That developer poses a difficult question to answer. Modding a multiplayer game where a good amount of the game files are stored server side is not easy. I've yet to figure out how someone could build mods that fundamentally alter gameplay without access to save files.

From what I understand even though the saves are on a server, all the processing and simulation is still happening on your computer. If that's the case then creating mods for SimCity shouldn't be vastly different from SC4. Saved games & mods were stored separately in SC4. In fact, most mods never touched your save files at all. Most of them just altered simulation & gameplay behavior. Save files, at least in SC4, really just stored the location data of your buildings & transport networks, topography and game state.

I agree with Ombedor though. I think the toughest part for Maxis is figuring out how to make mods work within a multiplayer environment. The only systems I can see them using are the ones used by OpenTTD or Steam. The way downloading GRF's from within OpenTTD I thought made things very easy and painless for the end user. It might also make syncing up mods and content between players much easier. Maxis could also go with a Steam workshop like system. The only problem is that since they are using Origin, EA themselves would have to create the service from scratch. Since EA is so intent on competing with Steam I think this is something they should be seriously considering anyways.

[jacksunny 741]

I'll post a few of the questions regarding modding from Dirk's write-up here.

How does a modded building affect that global economy? Would it? Should it? What about other players in your region? Maybe if you play with modded or custom content, you play in your own region, and you affect nothing else, including the global economy. But should you get to access the global economy? Does that not just isolate you, you know, just as if you were playing a single-player offline game?

Personally, I believe that there would have to be set restrictions on modded buildings regarding the Global economy. For example, you could BAT (or whatever the tool will be called) an oil plant, but you will not be able to specify how much oil it is taking out of the ground. Perhaps this could be determined by the size of the BAT, or the number of people. Setting it to produce a ridiculously high amount of oil would mess up the global economy, and some people might not be too pleased about that.

I think a bigger issue is how mods will be distributed among the players. After a player completes a mod, perhaps it could be "uploaded" to the region. Then, players could decide whether or not they want to use this mod in their city.

The issue that arises with this is that some mods will have to be distributed among everybody in the region, no matter what. For example, terrain mods. Having a different terrain mod in each city would look ridiculous. To solve this problem, I propose a "voting" system. If a player attempts to add a mod that affects ever city, an alert would be sent to everybody in the region. They would have a certain amount of time, say a week or so, to vote if they would like the mod to be installed or not. Majority wins. The players could even set it to require a higher amount of the vote, say, 75% for the mod to be allowed.

Then comes the issue with your mod affecting other players. The biggest thing that comes to mind here is pollution. One player would create a building that spews out so much pollution the region is turned into a dirty wasteland. Obviously, the other players wouldn't like this. This is where the limitations come in again.

Perhaps the players could even set the limitations in their region (not for the global economy of course) but for other things, like pollution.

A big issue that arises from this though is the ability to cheat, which would mess up the leaderboards. The only thing I can think of to get around this is to have a certain region automatically be taken off the leaderboards if they set one of their limits extremely high.

For example, if there is a leaderboard that lists players by their city's education levels, and the players in the region set the limitations on how much schools increase these levels to an extremely high amount, they could cheat. They could BAT a school that turns the city's citizens into Albert Einsteins, and put themselves at the top of the leaderboard. This is why they have to be removed from the leaderboards if they go over a certain amount.

Another thought that just came to mind could be difficulty settings for the leaderboards. An "easy" leaderboard would allow schools like the one above to be created, while a "hard" leaderboard wouldn't. To use the education example, a hard game would have schools do little effect on the citizens unless a lot of funding is given, and even then, it might take a while for changes to be noticed. The players of the region could choose which difficulty they want to play on.

I'll end it there. I'm starting to drag on quite a bit. Some of these ideas may sound ridiculous, but I'm really hoping Maxis can figure this out. Modding could make this game incredible.

[Ocram's Razr 963]

Modding would add credibility to SimCity 2013 and a whole new layer of play.

--Ocram

[Screwballl 196]

if you really think about it as what we know of this new SC:

Premium content purchased online...

If they opened up the full modding community like we see with SC4 on the STEX, they would not make that money since people could just make their own versions of those buildings. Why pay $5 real money for the Empire State building when you can get one for free from somewhere like the STEX (which will likely happen anyways if they ever open it up to legal modding).

So IF they do open it up, it will likely just be for non-impact non-premium buildings, like growable buildings (houses, businesses, etc) but lock out access to modifications to the stats. So no more 1x1 dump trash down a magic hole 999 ton capacity for $10 per turn (month/hour/whatever) or 1x1 magic genie power plant that produces 100,000Kw power for $100/turn, or 1x1 money trees.

[VeritaScientia 150]

if you really think about it as what we know of this new SC:

Premium content purchased online...

If they opened up the full modding community like we see with SC4 on the STEX, they would not make that money since people could just make their own versions of those buildings. Why pay $5 real money for the Empire State building when you can get one for free from somewhere like the STEX (which will likely happen anyways if they ever open it up to legal modding).

So IF they do open it up, it will likely just be for non-impact non-premium buildings, like growable buildings (houses, businesses, etc) but lock out access to modifications to the stats. So no more 1x1 dump trash down a magic hole 999 ton capacity for $10 per turn (month/hour/whatever) or 1x1 magic genie power plant that produces 100,000Kw power for $100/turn, or 1x1 money trees.

I don't see any problem with limiting it to buildings that aren't going to give players an undue advantage. Money trees, money plants, other things like that shouldn't be allowed on ranked regions, though they could have it the way they are on Battlefield 3 where you can change certain parameters, but changing them too much can cause the server to be unranked.

[Jokurr 175]

I've seen companies offer DLC while their games are highly moddable. I don't see them wanting to sell DLC as a reason to limit modding because of that. The online compatability previously mentioned is probably the biggest obstacle to get around.

[Ombedor 23]

if you really think about it as what we know of this new SC:

Premium content purchased online...

If they opened up the full modding community like we see with SC4 on the STEX, they would not make that money since people could just make their own versions of those buildings. Why pay $5 real money for the Empire State building when you can get one for free from somewhere like the STEX (which will likely happen anyways if they ever open it up to legal modding).

So IF they do open it up, it will likely just be for non-impact non-premium buildings, like growable buildings (houses, businesses, etc) but lock out access to modifications to the stats. So no more 1x1 dump trash down a magic hole 999 ton capacity for $10 per turn (month/hour/whatever) or 1x1 magic genie power plant that produces 100,000Kw power for $100/turn, or 1x1 money trees.

They could create a "mod store" and let modders sell their mods with Maxis taking a cut in the same way that app stores, or even the Diablo III auction house works. Although I don't get the feeling that they are headed this way.

[gegrissom 0]

HI new here and an old 50 yrs old user of SC4. How do I get to SC4 Mapper from in side SC4????

[jacksunny 741]

^You are in the wrong forum. This is for discussion on the upcoming game "Simcity."

SC4Mapper can't be accessed directly from SC4, it is a separate program used to import maps. You should ask here.

  Edited October 19, 2012 by jacksunny  

[Screwballl 196]

They could create a "mod store" and let modders sell their mods with Maxis taking a cut in the same way that app stores, or even the Diablo III auction house works. Although I don't get the feeling that they are headed this way.

I see that as both a boon and a bane... as long s it gives the uploader a type of credit or benefit, and not just EA making more money off us users. It forces people to pt time and effort into their lots.

On the other hand, a freebie system like the STEX let's anyone make what they want and the downloaders and reviewers determine what is good and bad.

personally i would rather see a third party like Simtropolis handle the mods, EA would just limit everything and screw it up

[jacksunny 741]

^I wouldn't mind if EA controlled an exchange, as long as it was moderated. I would probably stick to ST however.

[SirChick 184]

Here is why I think its unlikely (and yes I'm aware of the sticky thread, but that thread doesn't confirm any thing):

If the game is on-line only and you play with friends, they require the same custom content as you or there will be all kinds of weird results. There are all kinds of problems with this:

People may not want some mods or any mods (what choice they got if everyone on-line in their region does??).... - One user's mods might conflict with another person's mods.

An overly high poly count for a building might lag your friend who has a sub par PC compared to yours. So even if it was hosted on your hard drive, it still wouldn't make a great deal of logic to do it that way from any game developer's perspective. If its all cloud hosted, then custom content will cost a lot of money to host by maxis - I'm not sure they will allow it for free. All of this would make on-line too much of a mine field and not very consistent.

If there was an offline element the problem is non existent obviously (as per SC4) because other people's computers don't come into the equation.. It just wouldn't work or make any sense for on-line.

A likely result:

At most, a re-skin of already existing buildings - this involves downloading textures. If a player is missing those textures it would load the default skin, game play is not effected and that I believe is the limit to how on-line with custom content would ever work. All that alters between players is eye candy but the functionality has not changed.

Even more likely result:

It will go down the route of Cities XL, New releases for more buildings to buy. For example:

Casino expansion pack, you get better casino's and add-ons which help you go higher in the profit leader board to those who don't pay money for the expansion packs, they see the casinos in your city but cannot build their own....aka you pay to keep up or you fall behind - this is precisely how I see it going because its a way to keep profits coming in easily.

I have little optimism for mods / custom content for the new SimCity. I just can't see how it would work on-line. And they have not mentioned any solid information for how they would even begin to make it work.

[Ocram's Razr 963]

I believe that changing the textures and props would be the first thing possible, seeing as that is possible with modular buildings already.

Eventually, changing meshes should become possible, but there would be a polygon limit. Cities XL has a polygon/vertex limit where the building importer does not allow the use of meshes with more polygons than the (default/hard coded) limit.

The thing is that the GlassBox engine allows for extensive modding, including new resources. It even has developer/debug tools for terraforming. However, an online environment is not conducive to third party mods and plugins.

--Ocram

[fatbuster 44]

I think the extent the game would be moddable will depend on how customizable the regions will be (in how you can set them up).

The easiest way to get around the potential issues with multiplayer would be to force only private regions to be created if mods are to be used. This way games will only be limited to either a single player or players who are likely to have the same mods installed.

Issues with the global market could potentially also be solved without changing any of the game's mechanics. They could still allow buying/selling to the market but disallow your region from affecting it.This way you can still use the market, but you will not be able to run any mods that can potentially break it for everyone. This is assuming that the market works by buying or selling only at whatever the current market price happens to be (So far that's how it seems like it may work from looking at the screenshots I've seen).