SimCity 5 DLC

[mattyriddy 12]

If SimCity 5 is announced next week and it allows you to upload your own mods/bats would you charge for them.

I wasn't sure where to post this so move it if needed.

[T Wrecks 10,210]

Well, at this stage, all this seems highly speculative and hypothetical to me.

Anyway, in the German SimCommunity forum simforum.de, I've seen various bitter quarrels about paid content, piracy debates etc. etc. in the context of the Sims games (not SimCity!). I had the impression that the overall "climate" was much more tense and hostile than within the SC4 community, where everything is offered free of charge.

I would prefer to keep this spirit of "Made by Gamers, Made for Gamers", where the 'community' isn't just a means to make some bucks, but a place that actually deserves this denomination.

Bloated egos and exaggerated 'team politics' have led to quite a few unpleasant episodes in the history of custom SC4 content already - imagine money came into the equation... No, thanks.

[RedMist 10]

If EA will create a SimCity Exchange like TS3 Exchange, there is a lot of corrupted content included in the pack, it's really boring.

If EA will create a SimCity Store like TS3 Store, I'll buy some items but I think STEX stuff will be better and there will be more content.

[BurroDiablo 222]

If I came back to SC modding, there is no way I would charge for anything I made. STEX is a great example of how people are willing mod and model for the sake of a better game for everyone, it's free modding that's kept SC4 going for near on a decade. I would pay for DLC if it added a lot of useful stuff, but if it was just a building here or there for £5 then I would rather just leave it.

[Cob92 360]

It all depends on the content. I paid a good $20 for Rush Hour; I probably would pay at least that much for a NAM fully integrated with the game. However, I'm not about to throw down money to get 1 extra house or a fancier tree for City Hall.

[Jasoncw 11,949]

There are a lot of younger players, and also casual players, who paid content would hurt. The Sims can exclude those people and still have a community because it's such a super popular game.

I also think that SC4 wouldn't have developed the custom content that it did without a community that was supportive and open and free. With money involved I think it would be harder for newbies to get involved, and it would also attract a bunch of strangers who are just looking to make quick money.

If there has to be DLC, maybe there could be a system where all the money could be kept track of internally without needing credit card information (until someone chose to cash out or pay more) and people could get credits for download things by making things themselves. I still think that would exclude a lot of people though.

Looking at my own case though, if I were paid 5 cents for each download I generated, Simtropolis would have paid me $23,000 by now! LOL

[brynhyfryd 222]

I am not a fan of paid for DLC. I am happy to pay for expansion packs though.

I would only be prepared to pay for fan made DLC if it kept the simcity series alive.

[Ocram's Razr 964]

The Sims Store and its expansion packs and stuff packs are not necessary to enjoy the game but many suckers spend a ton of cash on stuff packs and the sims store.

Therefore, any successful or fun game can have DLC which would increase profits.

A funny thing is that Anno 2070 introduced payed DLC in its most recent patch but the vast majority of functional buildings can be unlocked for free from the new missions that came free with the patch. These missions also earn you career points. I did not think twice about starting the missions and avoiding payment.

  Edited February 29, 2012 by OcramSeattle  

[Azurespecter 506]

The Sims Store and its expansion packs and stuff packs are not necessary to enjoy the game but many suckers spend a ton of cash on stuff packs and the sims store.

Therefore, any successful or fun game can have DLC which would increase profits.

Truth! I think EA would be nuts not to provide DLC much like they do for TS3. But if they try to sell me necessary content to make the game fun and playable... I'll be pissed.

[GrimJr987 15]

OK, we're gonna need some sort of informal watch organisation, and what they do, is make sure this game lives up to the standards of Simcity 4, If there is ANY pissing about with half the game being taken out and sold as Limited Edition DLC, Or Origin exclusivity, Micro-transactions and the like. We organise a mass Boycott, and we make sure it's effective, It may be a horrific idea to you guys, I'm sure, but Boycotts have worked against EA in the past, most notably with Battlefield 3, as they planned to make Multiplayer content exclusive to Limited Edition Owners, prompting reddit to organise a boycott, DICE and EA reversed their decision in the end. I'm suggesting that if EA do that to this game, we completely distance ourselves from SC5.

Boycotts do work, The problem is convincing those who are either A. Too Stubborn and Idiotic, Or B. Bratty Children who get everything out of Long suffering parents wallets, and just buy the game, find out who to use an internet forum (God Forbid) and rage at us for holding genuine criticism, OR C. Casual players, who get the really bad end of the deal, Their money is Sucked out of their wallets.

Simcity 5 WILL be exploited, We just have to make sure that it isn't too much.

  Edited February 29, 2012 by GrimJr987  

[squeaky024 14]

OK, we're gonna need some sort of informal watch organisation, and what they do, is make sure this game lives up to the standards of Simcity 4, If there is ANY pissing about with half the game being taken out and sold as Limited Edition DLC, Or Origin exclusivity, Micro-transactions and the like. We organise a mass Boycott, and we make sure it's effective, It may be a horrific idea to you guys, I'm sure, but Boycotts have worked against EA in the past, most notably with Battlefield 3, as they planned to make Multiplayer content exclusive to Limited Edition Owners, prompting reddit to organise a boycott, DICE and EA reversed their decision in the end. I'm suggesting that if EA do that to this game, we completely distance ourselves from SC5.

Boycotts do work, The problem is convincing those who are either A. Too Stubborn and Idiotic, Or B. Bratty Children who get everything out of Long suffering parents wallets, and just buy the game, find out who to use an internet forum (God Forbid) and rage at us for holding genuine criticism, OR C. Casual players, who get the really bad end of the deal, Their money is Sucked out of their wallets.

Simcity 5 WILL be exploited, We just have to make sure that it isn't too much.

I absolutely must agree with you 100%. I do not want corporate interests over a quality product that people will love to buy and support. The gaming industry has made a massive U turn over the years and quality has suffered dramatically. EA will make money out of this either way, and I want them to realise that they WILL make less if they nickel and dime me. I WILL NOT purchase the game if there is absurd pay for necessary content DLC for this game as Microsoft has done with Flight.

The flight simulation series by microsoft is a perfect analogy to simcity. Both have a great community and a lot of pride is taken in 3rd party addons, and DLC has and will destroy both if done with stockholders and corporate interests first. We are people too, and we do not want to be exploited in any way. Loosing support is the wrong move to take, and I hope they never do such a thing.

If expansion packs are made (plenty of new content, features, bug fixes, etc with the community at the center of all aspects) most of us will purchase that. We do not want a locked market with DLC for addons, the game WILL die within 3 years, along with support from its customers.

[hyno111 0]

A new building pack/transport pack wouldn't hurt. If the price is right,I'll buy them all. Just don't sell new features as DLC. And don't price like in TS3!

[Ocram's Razr 964]

Well, Flight Simulator DLC for more missions and plane models makes sense if you have enough content in the base game (so even if there is 1 model in base game at first but 10 can be unlocked by doing missions and an additional 10 are in a $2 DLC is perfectly fair).

[2farnorth 26]

Sorry, but paying extra to pay is wrong. Chances are, needing to pay £10 for the NAM will destroy any chances of me getting custom content. And if SC5 didn't have good enough core game play? Dead. The game would be dead.

[DCMetro34 577]

If there are people who would spend money on Facebook, then I'm sure there are select few who would spend money on this game. If this is really such a big gaming breakthrough as EA seems to be drumming it up to be, then surely they will release some package of content.

As for members and teams on this site charging for content; I can honestly never see that happening. It's really almost turned into an open-source type situation (although we can't change every part of the game). The people who make the modds simply do it for enjoyment and the good of the community. I don't think the team leaders of NAM would ever start doing that, for one it surely be another hassle for them.

  Edited March 1, 2012 by DCMetro34  

[Ocram's Razr 964]

Seeing as PlayFish (China, part of EA's FB games developers) is mostly done with SimCity Social, there might be some (unwanted) interaction.

[SimCity4IE 203]

I don't pay for DLC in general. I'd rather buy an expansion pack. At least then I can feel that I own something instead of just files.

[hamsterTK 93]

I think it depends on the demographics of its audience. Simcity is popular with all-ages, and kids and teens often don't have credit cards to pay for DLC. That's one issue.

Also I really hope that the game ships with core features like transportation networks and a decent set of buildings. If it costs $60 for the basic game I expect it to be acceptable by itself even if I am willing to buy DLC. If I have to pay to just get something like trains I'll be less enthused even though I am an adult and can spend my own money online.

However, Simcity does have a history of legitimate expansions and special editions like SC3K Unlimited. Not just new buildings but whole new additions to gameplay that modders on this site couldn't just make and give away for free.

  Edited March 2, 2012 by hamsterTK  

[Tarkus 6,933]

If I have to pay to just get something like trains I'll be less enthused about the game even though I am an adult and can spend my own money online.

I would think that anyone making a new city-simulator would have learned from the fiasco around the original CXL that such an approach is unlikely to be successful.

-Tarkus

[City Planner 121]

If EA charges for DLC, I think we can all kiss traditional SC4 style plugins out the window, and as such I'd likely have to pass on SC5 as relying on EA to supply plugins/DLC that I would actually want are slim, really slim.

If they do have a plugin system like SC4 has, then no, I would not charge others for any plugins that I might create, assuming that I'd create plugins that were good enough to distribute and not just keep to myself which is what I've done with SC4 99% of the time.

[SimHoTToDDy 2,939]

As a broke engineer, I would love it if EA payed us for our hard work, but in the end I still wouldn't want the end user to have to spend anything (at least not on a sims scale) on the content.

Maybe I should apply for a job making models for them (That'd be like joining the dark side, lol).

[The Avatar 1,089]

I don't care if EA releases a DLC for SC5 (assuming SC5 is real) as long as they still have a plugin system. Compare the quality of content created by people from the SC4 Community to the quality of Maxis-made vanilla content. The quality of the content created by the community is much higher! However, GameStar claims SC5 will have improved graphics, and this worries me that having a plugin system will be pointless, because of the switch for custom content creators from SC4's graphic capability to SC5's. Also, as seen in CXL, when you increase the quality of the graphics, the amount of detail that can be added is decreased. Some of the best SC4 custom content has immense detail, but with SC5's graphics, will this be possible?

I also worry that a rush to create custom content for SC5 will decrease the amount of content that is released for SC4. Although I'm sure many members of the community will never forget about SC4, like me.

  Edited March 3, 2012 by MamaLuigi945  

[Ocram's Razr 964]

You can have an extremely detailed building if you use high quality textures, plenty of furniture and designate it as T4 (so you can have a large amount of polygons) though you would need a fancy computer if you have too many of these.

[Tarkus 6,933]

I also worry that a rush to create custom content for SC5 will decrease the amount of content that is released for SC4. Although I'm sure many members of the community will never forget about SC4, like me.

The discussions I've thus far had with other SC4 content creators (namely other NAMites) is that we're going to continue on with our SC4 projects, at least up until the SC5 release itself. We already have a lot in the works--it'd be silly not to finish and release it. I'd imagine people will still be modding SC4 after SC5 is released. Just how many and how much energy they focus toward it depends on how well the SC4 modding community receives the new game.

I can pretty much tell you now that it's extremely unlikely anyone will be modding SC5 until after SC5 is actually released. Once folks have their hands on the new game, they'll know just what it is capable of and all its features, and what could be added. Pre-emptively "modding for modding's sake" is pointless. People will want to play the game first.

The first real "custom content" that was supported was custom grayscale maps. The earliest files on the STEX, dating back to March 31, 2003, are maps (I believe that may have been the "opening day" of the old Simtropolis Map Exchange, which predates the STEX). That functionality was built into the game already (it needed to be for developmental purposes) and didn't really require tools.

The "official tools" for modding SC4 weren't available from the very beginning, either. The Lot Editor came about 6 months after the initial release of SC4 in 2003 (in July, as I recall), and the BAT came in 2004. Obviously, the game's developers first goal is to finish the game--custom content tools, while important, are a subsidiary concern.

The "unofficial" tools developed by the community also took quite a bit of time. The Reader, which is the standard bearer nowadays for most advanced modding operations, wasn't around until the end of 2003, and was still fairly limited until the 0.9.3 release (which many of us still use) from June 2004. DatGen (DarkMatter's similar tool) also dates to around the same time.

Transit modding did not really begin until later in 2003, and it was mostly oriented toward fixing the traffic simulator at that point. It had been given an extremely high heuristic value because of system limitations in the original game files, and as such, wasn't particularly accurate. There were a few RUL modifications beginning in December 2003 for very basic things. The NAM itself didn't come to fruition until April 24, 2004.

-Tarkus

  Edited March 3, 2012 by Tarkus  

[Ocram's Razr 964]

Well, DLC and custom content plug-ins can work if you have authentification and a desperate folder for DLC, Patches, and Upgrades from the custom content folder, especially if different file extentions are used.

[+Guest tickleonthetummy]

Having seen the rip off that is The Sims 3 Store, I suspect that the SimCity Store will be just as bad! I'm afraid EA is all about the money, and they will milk every penny they can get out of players. I will not buy SimCity if it involves needing to buy DLC to get things that should have been in the game already... Again something they did with The Sims 3 which lead to me abandoning that game for good as well as any future The Sims games. I just hope SimCity doesn't go the same way, but I fear it will...

[croxis 150]

Of course EA is milking as much money as they can. They are a publicly traded company and have obligations to their shareholders. I know a lot of people complain about this, but they still buy their games anyway

From what I have read from game devs on reddit /r/gamedev and /r/games is that they almost never take anything out from the origional plan to make it a dlc. DLC projects have their own seperate budgets from the main game. It also helps keeps the employees employed. For example: in the last phases of development which is mostly bug sqwishing many programmers and art people are moved on to other projects or their contracts expire. With DLC and expansions they can continue working on the game and release new content much faster than traditional expansions, sometimes on day 0, due to the faster quality assurance process.

Now I am not trying to excuse some of the practices with DLC we have seen, but I do want to point out that it is a lot more nuanced than many gamers think it is.

[K-os 30]

Preorder details with DLC from EA

[brynhyfryd 222]

EA charging for DLC that was in simcity 3000 at no extra cost.

[T Wrecks 10,210]

Mystery items? Super Hero HQ? Evil villain lair? That sounds more SimCity Societies-ish to me than anything else...