Jason's BATs & Tutorials

[Jasoncw 11,840]

Thanks for the responses everyone. 

Last night I exported the day version. 

Sgt Pepper:  Thanks!

Simbourgeois:  Thanks!  Good!

Alex_Bervoets:  What I do isn't too special, anyone can do it.  Your BATs already look a lot better than my first BATs, so I wouldn't worry about it. 

Aaron Graham:  Thanks! 

Amthaak:  Actually your roof deck sort of inspired me while I was working on mine.  Hopefully my hotel can provide some guidance for yours.

io_bg:  Thanks! 

SimFox:  Yep, the canopies will go to the edge of the road.  Unfortunately it sort of overlaps with the street props and pedestrians in the game, but it still looks good.

Originally I had the metal more reflective, but I toned it down.  I've made it more reflective, and I've changed the IOR.  It's still probably not as explicitly metallic looking as you would make it, but I think it's good how it is.  In the image below I showed the other rotation which does a better job of showing its metallicness.

I worked some more on the pool in general, and set up the water and lights for caustics.

Thanks!

citiesxlfan42:  Thanks!  Yep, the canopies will meet the street. 

Francis90b:  Yep, that's how it is, lol.  I scaled it horizontally to make it fit wall to wall on the lot.  I hadn't gotten around to scaling it down vertically (to keep the proportions as what they originally were), but now I've decided not to, since that would reduce the floor heights (to something like 3.8 meters).

The cornice and the top part of the building in general is made out of terra cotta made to look like limestone.  The colored parts are also terra cotta. 

It's common for penthouses to have modest ornamentation.

If I were designing the building myself, I wouldn't have those corners, but the building I based this on had them, and they work out ok on that building and I think they do on this BAT as well.  I think it's probably good that they're there though, if I did everything as it came naturally all my BATs would look (even more) the same.

I actually like the idea of colored spandrels like that.  Normally when you look at a building you don't explicitly notice that some areas are colored, but they commonly are, and that interested me.  I first noticed this when nofunk was working on his Park Shelton BAT, I assumed everything was monochromatic, but it turned out it had all of this colored ornament all over.

In the US at least, red is the iconic hotel canopy color, so the canopies are red.

The planks of wood are overscaled, but if they were too small they would blend together too much, this way they read better as planks.  I looked up and found the building you mentioned, and I see how the setbacks would make good patio spaces.  I don't want to make my hotel's roof deck too big, because I want to leave space for generic roof, for some "breathing room" in the image.   I feel like if it were all roof it would be sort of overwhelming and could also overpower the building's facade.

Jack_wilds:  Thanks!  A: I'm not sure what you mean, but the canopies will be (have been) extended to meet the road, but they haven't been extended along the building.  Like you said, I think it would be nice to leave the base of the building visible.  Also, I think there would just be too much canopy going on if there was any more. 

B:  I agree  C:  Like I was saying to Francis90b, I don't want the roof deck to take up too much of the roof. 

D:  Right now I don't plan on making a residential version.  Since this building is so clearly a hotel, I think it would be strange for it to grow in a residential area. 

E:  It's wall to wall on both sides, and there isn't an alley.  Originally I was going to put some loading docks on the back side, but I never got around to it and don't feel like it, lol

Thanks! 

nofunk:  I think there could be an area off to the side like that.  I mainly did it to add a little detail, and because I've been wanting to BAT some patio pavers like that.  I've made them darker so they're not as prominent.

SimFox:  I have!!  lol  But I've closed it now, because the day version is done and rendered. 

citiesxlfan42:  It's just a little patio area off to the side.  Thanks!

I feel like a CJer, writing all of those replies!! 

Well, here it is in the game:

[Jack_wilds 550]

...good, better and well done... what more can I say ?

[Francis90b 748]

I'm glad you've decided to keep that floor height !

As for the penthouses, i was not very sure about that kind of decoration, but i did take another look at the building and i've changed idea.I understand what you mean by saying that it is a pretty common feature, even though i still feel strange when looking at that on many existing buildings....and this even after having chosen for BATing onesharing this feature!

As for the coloured spandrels...well, i might agree, but then you have to consider how they will appear.

Maybe right now you might have a problem of contrast between the spaqndrels themselves, the wall around them and the circle inside them.What i'm saying there is that the spandrels don't stand out enough if compared with those two elements....especially the circle.After all you're expected to notice the coloured spandrels before noticing the coloured circle inside them, aren't you?

Before writing my last comment i actually believed that it might have been a good idea to increase the contrast between the parts, but then your spandrels would have had another, much stronger colour that would have not matched with the rest of the ornaments and the doors on the lobby, and, if applied to them as well, would have perhaps made them stand out too much,

So, i've decided to suggest you an idea that was less troublesome, but maybe more feasible, even though i didn't fully believe in it.

Another thing (and i realize that only now, lol) is that the spandrels within the two story arched windows are actually of a different colour.

As for the issue about the corners i understand what you mean, and perhaps you did say that before too.

You might trust your genius of architect and try something else, maybe you might end up with a better solution (and whch will still make your BATs look unique)  !

To fully elaborate my opinion about it, i think that those pillars do look very good on the lower part of the building being something like an enclosing elements outside the rows of columns, but does look somewhat bulky and in-natural as we move on considering the middle section and the top floors.

So, i believe that something based on the cadillac hotel would work best:

Actually, i see much similarity between the two situations.

Well, in the Cadillac hotel you have the columns only on the few first floors, then the facade goes on without any ornament except for the cornices and some statues.Maybe this solution could work with your hotel too

The roof...well, i agree with you as having that deck covering up the whole area wouldn't have been a good idea, and i share some of the points you've expressed.Actually i was thining more about a different kind of paving for another portion of the roof....but this perhaps  was neither a good idea too.

Well, i hope about not being too insistent with my criticism (as it might happen) and that you enjoyed reading this post!

[CHR 2]

Wow, the building looks very great.

The only thing I thought I should point out is that the over hanging red coverings will not work properly with the new road widening mod roads (in fact, I think the poles are on the road in the turning lanes at the upper corner there). I can see that there is a problem in that a smaller building won't look as good on regular roads, whereas a larger building sticks out onto widened roads.

I don't think it is really worth making another version of the building for, but you may be able to get away with shrinking them (or even the whole building) a bit, and moving the building further back.

[citiesxlfan42 27]

Cool! It looks great! Although, off of CHR's comment, I don't wanna know what happens with avenue or MAVE from NWM...

[citiesxlfan42 27]

Cool! It looks great! Although, off of CHR's comment, I don't wanna know what happens with avenue or MAVE from NWM...

[Evillions 552]

Can you please tell me how do you get those amazing nightlights? And the scaling in 3dsmax 2010?

btw, I love you're work! Keep it up!

[Evillions 552]

Can you please tell me how do you get those amazing nightlights? And the scaling in 3dsmax 2010?

btw, I love you're work! Keep it up!

[Aaron Graham 4,417]

Can someone help Evillions on how to get nightlights in 3ds Max2010, Evillions has been asking for help for a while now, Evillions could have exported a building and uploaded it to ST with all the time he has been waiting. I'm just saying please please help Evillions.

[Aaron Graham 4,417]

Can someone help Evillions on how to get nightlights in 3ds Max2010, Evillions has been asking for help for a while now, Evillions could have exported a building and uploaded it to ST with all the time he has been waiting. I'm just saying please please help Evillions.

[SimFox 801]

Here is  Trier Tower with more lit up windows and some night environmental reflections.

South + East:

North + West:

So would do you say? Is it done or will there be some suggestions?

[SimFox 801]

Here is  Trier Tower with more lit up windows and some night environmental reflections.

South + East:

North + West:

So would do you say? Is it done or will there be some suggestions?

[Sgt Pepper 864]

Personally I don't like the green and red "squiggles" on the glass at night. It doesn't seem that nessecary for the building, especially thinking of any of the buildings that would surround it. But as for the rest of the lighting, it's breath taking.

[Sgt Pepper 864]

Personally I don't like the green and red "squiggles" on the glass at night. It doesn't seem that nessecary for the building, especially thinking of any of the buildings that would surround it. But as for the rest of the lighting, it's breath taking.

[Aaron Graham 4,417]

Sim Fox- Can you please stop you making me look really bad, that model is starting to look realer and realer.

[Aaron Graham 4,417]

Sim Fox- Can you please stop you making me look really bad, that model is starting to look realer and realer.

[SimFox 801]

And here is day re-render of Van Wingerden Plaza A:

Little material tune up here, but nothing revolutionary.

And here are darkNight versions:

Sgnt Pepper:

"green and red "squiggles" on the glass at night" are environmental reflections. They play same very role reflections in day view do - denote the material of the building. Without them building look just like a black box or undetermined nature. And speaking of necessary things.. well virtually nothing is actually necessary, yet ...

Could you clarify what "thinking of any of the buildings that would surround it" means exactly.. not sure that I'm following you.

Here is what glass building looks like (from top down point of view) at night:

In game building will most probably be surrounded by many other with night lights, there are lights on the street, there are cars etc, etc... so black box is just not what I expect it to look . It has been like that , but we have already changed many things that were before... I'll try to place then in a night city and show here screen grabs...

As for Evelins question... first of all it's not really clear whom does he address it to. Second it is so broad and general that one doesn't quite know where to start.  All lighting is done with either lights, or self-illuminated materials. But that is, i believe, pretty much a common knowledge. More than that, I specially went back in this thread and I found Jason explaining to him how to set self-illuminated material based on Arch&Design one. He also suggested for him here and in other thread to read Help that comes with MAX, as well as work through tutorials that also come with Max. Yet couple of weeks later we see same question again. This makes one wonder if - I may be wrong on this, but it feels like it - he believes that in 3ds Max there is a button somewhere that says "make pretty night lights" and he just wants someone to show him where it's hidden.

In the end it is just your imagination, fantasy and appropriateness of one method or another. This is very much project dependent. Also knowledge of how light works help great deal - saves you tens of hours of renders. Yet those renders are essential. You can't expect become any good at it if you don't try things for yourself, as there is NO such thing as a magic "make it beautiful" button hidden anywhere in Max or any other application.

Question of Scaling in 3ds Max is even more puzzling. First of all why is there should be some special scaling just in 3ds max? Second, again what exactly does he mean by it? How scaling is done? Or should there be some scale-up on Z axis? Ant any rate scaling in 3ds Max is no different than scaling in GMAX.

[SimFox 801]

And here is day re-render of Van Wingerden Plaza A:

Little material tune up here, but nothing revolutionary.

And here are darkNight versions:

Sgnt Pepper:

"green and red "squiggles" on the glass at night" are environmental reflections. They play same very role reflections in day view do - denote the material of the building. Without them building look just like a black box or undetermined nature. And speaking of necessary things.. well virtually nothing is actually necessary, yet ...

Could you clarify what "thinking of any of the buildings that would surround it" means exactly.. not sure that I'm following you.

Here is what glass building looks like (from top down point of view) at night:

In game building will most probably be surrounded by many other with night lights, there are lights on the street, there are cars etc, etc... so black box is just not what I expect it to look . It has been like that , but we have already changed many things that were before... I'll try to place then in a night city and show here screen grabs...

As for Evelins question... first of all it's not really clear whom does he address it to. Second it is so broad and general that one doesn't quite know where to start.  All lighting is done with either lights, or self-illuminated materials. But that is, i believe, pretty much a common knowledge. More than that, I specially went back in this thread and I found Jason explaining to him how to set self-illuminated material based on Arch&Design one. He also suggested for him here and in other thread to read Help that comes with MAX, as well as work through tutorials that also come with Max. Yet couple of weeks later we see same question again. This makes one wonder if - I may be wrong on this, but it feels like it - he believes that in 3ds Max there is a button somewhere that says "make pretty night lights" and he just wants someone to show him where it's hidden.

In the end it is just your imagination, fantasy and appropriateness of one method or another. This is very much project dependent. Also knowledge of how light works help great deal - saves you tens of hours of renders. Yet those renders are essential. You can't expect become any good at it if you don't try things for yourself, as there is NO such thing as a magic "make it beautiful" button hidden anywhere in Max or any other application.

Question of Scaling in 3ds Max is even more puzzling. First of all why is there should be some special scaling just in 3ds max? Second, again what exactly does he mean by it? How scaling is done? Or should there be some scale-up on Z axis? Ant any rate scaling in 3ds Max is no different than scaling in GMAX.

[Sgt Pepper 864]

"Sgnt Pepper:

"green and red "squiggles" on the glass at night" are environmental reflections. They play same very role reflections in day view do - denote the material of the building. Without them building look just like a black box or undetermined nature. And speaking of necessary things.. well virtually nothing is actually necessary, yet ...

Could you clarify what "thinking of any of the buildings that would surround it" means exactly.. not sure that I'm following you.

Here is what glass building looks like (from top down point of view) at night: {image}

In game building will most probably be surrounded by many other with night lights, there are lights on the street, there are cars etc, etc... so black box is just not what I expect it to look . It has been like that , but we have already changed many things that were before... I'll try to place then in a night city and show here screen grabs..."

 

I see, however I thought it looked odd on that one. It looks great on Van Wingerden Plaza A, I just thought it looked a little "too squigly" on the Trier Tower. And what I mean of the buildings surrounding it, I was mainly refering to the "current BATs" that don't have this reveloutionary feature yet. I'm aslo thinking of certain places that don't have alot of lights beneath or around a building. Of course, like the small town I live in, there isn't alot of things that would get the reflection of other lights on the glass, so I'm more used to that. So I was thinking more of less urban areas. And not all buildings's glass looks like that one in the pic you posted at night.

[Sgt Pepper 864]

"Sgnt Pepper:

"green and red "squiggles" on the glass at night" are environmental reflections. They play same very role reflections in day view do - denote the material of the building. Without them building look just like a black box or undetermined nature. And speaking of necessary things.. well virtually nothing is actually necessary, yet ...

Could you clarify what "thinking of any of the buildings that would surround it" means exactly.. not sure that I'm following you.

Here is what glass building looks like (from top down point of view) at night: {image}

In game building will most probably be surrounded by many other with night lights, there are lights on the street, there are cars etc, etc... so black box is just not what I expect it to look . It has been like that , but we have already changed many things that were before... I'll try to place then in a night city and show here screen grabs..."

 

I see, however I thought it looked odd on that one. It looks great on Van Wingerden Plaza A, I just thought it looked a little "too squigly" on the Trier Tower. And what I mean of the buildings surrounding it, I was mainly refering to the "current BATs" that don't have this reveloutionary feature yet. I'm aslo thinking of certain places that don't have alot of lights beneath or around a building. Of course, like the small town I live in, there isn't alot of things that would get the reflection of other lights on the glass, so I'm more used to that. So I was thinking more of less urban areas. And not all buildings's glass looks like that one in the pic you posted at night.

[ilikehotdogsalot 307]

Wow, that hotel fits in the game really well. Looks like it was done from someone at Maxis, very good!

[ilikehotdogsalot 307]

Wow, that hotel fits in the game really well. Looks like it was done from someone at Maxis, very good!

[Evillions 552]

Originally posted by: SimFox

In game building will most probably be surrounded by many other with night lights, there are lights on the street, there are cars etc, etc... so black box is just not what I expect it to look . It has been like that , but we have already changed many things that were before... I'll try to place then in a night city and show here screen grabs...

As for Evelins question... first of all it's not really clear whom does he address it to. Second it is so broad and general that one doesn't quite know where to start.  All lighting is done with either lights, or self-illuminated materials. But that is, i believe, pretty much a common knowledge. More than that, I specially went back in this thread and I found Jason explaining to him how to set self-illuminated material based on Arch&Design one. He also suggested for him here and in other thread to read Help that comes with MAX, as well as work through tutorials that also come with Max. Yet couple of weeks later we see same question again. This makes one wonder if - I may be wrong on this, but it feels like it - he believes that in 3ds Max there is a button somewhere that says "make pretty night lights" and he just wants someone to show him where it's hidden.

In the end it is just your imagination, fantasy and appropriateness of one method or another. This is very much project dependent. Also knowledge of how light works help great deal - saves you tens of hours of renders. Yet those renders are essential. You can't expect become any good at it if you don't try things for yourself, as there is NO such thing as a magic "make it beautiful" button hidden anywhere in Max or any other application.

Question of Scaling in 3ds Max is even more puzzling. First of all why is there should be some special scaling just in 3ds max? Second, again what exactly does he mean by it? How scaling is done? Or should there be some scale-up on Z axis? Ant any rate scaling in 3ds Max is no different than scaling in GMAX.

quote>

Woah!, I know there isn't a magic button for nightlights.  I know they take many hours to get a good result.  I'm just asking by steps, how do you make nightlights in 3dsmax2010 because I don't know if its simliar to gmax's way of making nightlights.  Such as clicking an object and rename it to nightlite(whatever name).  Like, I need to know how to make night windows go with night renders.  If not, just show a few basic steps to make nightlights for darknite render. 

Futhermore, what I meant by scaling is the meters.  For example, I make a building that is a 1x2 lot, yet it looks very oversized to me.  Plus, I zoomed in all the way until there's no more grid to show (additional grid when zoomed in.) I really like to make more BATs soon.

[Evillions 552]

Originally posted by: SimFox

In game building will most probably be surrounded by many other with night lights, there are lights on the street, there are cars etc, etc... so black box is just not what I expect it to look . It has been like that , but we have already changed many things that were before... I'll try to place then in a night city and show here screen grabs...

As for Evelins question... first of all it's not really clear whom does he address it to. Second it is so broad and general that one doesn't quite know where to start.  All lighting is done with either lights, or self-illuminated materials. But that is, i believe, pretty much a common knowledge. More than that, I specially went back in this thread and I found Jason explaining to him how to set self-illuminated material based on Arch&Design one. He also suggested for him here and in other thread to read Help that comes with MAX, as well as work through tutorials that also come with Max. Yet couple of weeks later we see same question again. This makes one wonder if - I may be wrong on this, but it feels like it - he believes that in 3ds Max there is a button somewhere that says "make pretty night lights" and he just wants someone to show him where it's hidden.

In the end it is just your imagination, fantasy and appropriateness of one method or another. This is very much project dependent. Also knowledge of how light works help great deal - saves you tens of hours of renders. Yet those renders are essential. You can't expect become any good at it if you don't try things for yourself, as there is NO such thing as a magic "make it beautiful" button hidden anywhere in Max or any other application.

Question of Scaling in 3ds Max is even more puzzling. First of all why is there should be some special scaling just in 3ds max? Second, again what exactly does he mean by it? How scaling is done? Or should there be some scale-up on Z axis? Ant any rate scaling in 3ds Max is no different than scaling in GMAX.

quote>

Woah!, I know there isn't a magic button for nightlights.  I know they take many hours to get a good result.  I'm just asking by steps, how do you make nightlights in 3dsmax2010 because I don't know if its simliar to gmax's way of making nightlights.  Such as clicking an object and rename it to nightlite(whatever name).  Like, I need to know how to make night windows go with night renders.  If not, just show a few basic steps to make nightlights for darknite render. 

Futhermore, what I meant by scaling is the meters.  For example, I make a building that is a 1x2 lot, yet it looks very oversized to me.  Plus, I zoomed in all the way until there's no more grid to show (additional grid when zoomed in.) I really like to make more BATs soon.

[Evillions 552]

Originally posted by: SimFox

In game building will most probably be surrounded by many other with night lights, there are lights on the street, there are cars etc, etc... so black box is just not what I expect it to look . It has been like that , but we have already changed many things that were before... I'll try to place then in a night city and show here screen grabs...

As for Evelins question... first of all it's not really clear whom does he address it to. Second it is so broad and general that one doesn't quite know where to start.  All lighting is done with either lights, or self-illuminated materials. But that is, i believe, pretty much a common knowledge. More than that, I specially went back in this thread and I found Jason explaining to him how to set self-illuminated material based on Arch&Design one. He also suggested for him here and in other thread to read Help that comes with MAX, as well as work through tutorials that also come with Max. Yet couple of weeks later we see same question again. This makes one wonder if - I may be wrong on this, but it feels like it - he believes that in 3ds Max there is a button somewhere that says "make pretty night lights" and he just wants someone to show him where it's hidden.

In the end it is just your imagination, fantasy and appropriateness of one method or another. This is very much project dependent. Also knowledge of how light works help great deal - saves you tens of hours of renders. Yet those renders are essential. You can't expect become any good at it if you don't try things for yourself, as there is NO such thing as a magic "make it beautiful" button hidden anywhere in Max or any other application.

Question of Scaling in 3ds Max is even more puzzling. First of all why is there should be some special scaling just in 3ds max? Second, again what exactly does he mean by it? How scaling is done? Or should there be some scale-up on Z axis? Ant any rate scaling in 3ds Max is no different than scaling in GMAX.

quote>

Woah!, I know there isn't a magic button for nightlights.  I know they take many hours to get a good result.  I'm just asking by steps, how do you make nightlights in 3dsmax2010 because I don't know if its simliar to gmax's way of making nightlights.  Such as clicking an object and rename it to nightlite(whatever name).  Like, I need to know how to make night windows go with night renders.  If not, just show a few basic steps to make nightlights for darknite render. 

Futhermore, what I meant by scaling is the meters.  For example, I make a building that is a 1x2 lot, yet it looks very oversized to me.  Plus, I zoomed in all the way until there's no more grid to show (additional grid when zoomed in.) I really like to make more BATs soon.

[Francis90b 748]

Actually there's something that deserves some serious consideration when doing the nightlights, that is the type of building by size, architecture and floor count...let's make an example with the Van Wingerden plaza.

Now, let's imagine that it was built IRL and ask ourself "where was it likely to have been built?"

Well, let's take into consideration it's size first.Looking from the pictures I assume that this particular building does have 25 floors, plus the lobby, the penthouses and two mechanical floors....seems a pretty small skyscraper, something that it is perhaps easier to find in a mid.sized city rather than in a large metropolis (e.g you perhaps might have better chances to find something similar in Toledo, OH, or Fort Worth, or Buffalo more than in New York or Chicago)...and if we take this consideration for valid then we might want to consider that perhaps in a mid sized city there should be very few building that could affect their lights at night, as perhaps few buildings are so large.

You can't perhaps do much for the other things that have an impact on the "nightlight" of those building, that is, as you've said street illuminations, cars and so on.Here being generic is the best option.

But perhaps searching for how a building similar to the ones you're trying to nightlight does actually appear at night might be a good idea.

In short, while i could see in some CJ's (not to offend anyone there) very tall skyscraper and very small ones put side to side without much apparent logic, in a sort of pout pourri that does not have any realism and any logic if not to follow the author's personal tastes....

IRL builidng does have certan dimensions (or lack of them) in order to fit with the environment in which they are built.It wouldn't have much sense to build a three-story office building in downtown NY as it wouldn't have much sense to build an 80 story skyscraper in Altoona, PA.

I wrote that in order to put my two cents on the topic, as i've red the debate over the nightlights.

By saying that i don't want to express any criticism over your work, but only a small consideration over a side topic that had emerged from the discussion...as perhaps my knowledge about the topic (how a building and it's glass does actually appear at night) wouldn't perhaps allow me to write something with some sense....aside from writing something based on my impression, something that from a logical perspective wouldn't have any sense at all...

[Francis90b 748]

Actually there's something that deserves some serious consideration when doing the nightlights, that is the type of building by size, architecture and floor count...let's make an example with the Van Wingerden plaza.

Now, let's imagine that it was built IRL and ask ourself "where was it likely to have been built?"

Well, let's take into consideration it's size first.Looking from the pictures I assume that this particular building does have 25 floors, plus the lobby, the penthouses and two mechanical floors....seems a pretty small skyscraper, something that it is perhaps easier to find in a mid.sized city rather than in a large metropolis (e.g you perhaps might have better chances to find something similar in Toledo, OH, or Fort Worth, or Buffalo more than in New York or Chicago)...and if we take this consideration for valid then we might want to consider that perhaps in a mid sized city there should be very few building that could affect their lights at night, as perhaps few buildings are so large.

You can't perhaps do much for the other things that have an impact on the "nightlight" of those building, that is, as you've said street illuminations, cars and so on.Here being generic is the best option.

But perhaps searching for how a building similar to the ones you're trying to nightlight does actually appear at night might be a good idea.

In short, while i could see in some CJ's (not to offend anyone there) very tall skyscraper and very small ones put side to side without much apparent logic, in a sort of pout pourri that does not have any realism and any logic if not to follow the author's personal tastes....

IRL builidng does have certan dimensions (or lack of them) in order to fit with the environment in which they are built.It wouldn't have much sense to build a three-story office building in downtown NY as it wouldn't have much sense to build an 80 story skyscraper in Altoona, PA.

I wrote that in order to put my two cents on the topic, as i've red the debate over the nightlights.

By saying that i don't want to express any criticism over your work, but only a small consideration over a side topic that had emerged from the discussion...as perhaps my knowledge about the topic (how a building and it's glass does actually appear at night) wouldn't perhaps allow me to write something with some sense....aside from writing something based on my impression, something that from a logical perspective wouldn't have any sense at all...

[Francis90b 748]

Actually there's something that deserves some serious consideration when doing the nightlights, that is the type of building by size, architecture and floor count...let's make an example with the Van Wingerden plaza.

Now, let's imagine that it was built IRL and ask ourself "where was it likely to have been built?"

Well, let's take into consideration it's size first.Looking from the pictures I assume that this particular building does have 25 floors, plus the lobby, the penthouses and two mechanical floors....seems a pretty small skyscraper, something that it is perhaps easier to find in a mid.sized city rather than in a large metropolis (e.g you perhaps might have better chances to find something similar in Toledo, OH, or Fort Worth, or Buffalo more than in New York or Chicago)...and if we take this consideration for valid then we might want to consider that perhaps in a mid sized city there should be very few building that could affect their lights at night, as perhaps few buildings are so large.

You can't perhaps do much for the other things that have an impact on the "nightlight" of those building, that is, as you've said street illuminations, cars and so on.Here being generic is the best option.

But perhaps searching for how a building similar to the ones you're trying to nightlight does actually appear at night might be a good idea.

In short, while i could see in some CJ's (not to offend anyone there) very tall skyscraper and very small ones put side to side without much apparent logic, in a sort of pout pourri that does not have any realism and any logic if not to follow the author's personal tastes....

IRL builidng does have certan dimensions (or lack of them) in order to fit with the environment in which they are built.It wouldn't have much sense to build a three-story office building in downtown NY as it wouldn't have much sense to build an 80 story skyscraper in Altoona, PA.

I wrote that in order to put my two cents on the topic, as i've red the debate over the nightlights.

By saying that i don't want to express any criticism over your work, but only a small consideration over a side topic that had emerged from the discussion...as perhaps my knowledge about the topic (how a building and it's glass does actually appear at night) wouldn't perhaps allow me to write something with some sense....aside from writing something based on my impression, something that from a logical perspective wouldn't have any sense at all...

[Francis90b 748]

Actually there's something that deserves some serious consideration when doing the nightlights, that is the type of building by size, architecture and floor count...let's make an example with the Van Wingerden plaza.

Now, let's imagine that it was built IRL and ask ourself "where was it likely to have been built?"

Well, let's take into consideration it's size first.Looking from the pictures I assume that this particular building does have 25 floors, plus the lobby, the penthouses and two mechanical floors....seems a pretty small skyscraper, something that it is perhaps easier to find in a mid.sized city rather than in a large metropolis (e.g you perhaps might have better chances to find something similar in Toledo, OH, or Fort Worth, or Buffalo more than in New York or Chicago)...and if we take this consideration for valid then we might want to consider that perhaps in a mid sized city there should be very few building that could affect their lights at night, as perhaps few buildings are so large.

You can't perhaps do much for the other things that have an impact on the "nightlight" of those building, that is, as you've said street illuminations, cars and so on.Here being generic is the best option.

But perhaps searching for how a building similar to the ones you're trying to nightlight does actually appear at night might be a good idea.

In short, while i could see in some CJ's (not to offend anyone there) very tall skyscraper and very small ones put side to side without much apparent logic, in a sort of pout pourri that does not have any realism and any logic if not to follow the author's personal tastes....

IRL builidng does have certan dimensions (or lack of them) in order to fit with the environment in which they are built.It wouldn't have much sense to build a three-story office building in downtown NY as it wouldn't have much sense to build an 80 story skyscraper in Altoona, PA.

I wrote that in order to put my two cents on the topic, as i've red the debate over the nightlights.

By saying that i don't want to express any criticism over your work, but only a small consideration over a side topic that had emerged from the discussion...as perhaps my knowledge about the topic (how a building and it's glass does actually appear at night) wouldn't perhaps allow me to write something with some sense....aside from writing something based on my impression, something that from a logical perspective wouldn't have any sense at all...

[SimFox 801]

Originally posted by: Francis90b

Actually there's something that deserves some serious consideration when doing the nightlights, that is the type of building by size, architecture and floor count...let's make an example with the Van Wingerden plaza.

Now, let's imagine that it was built IRL and ask ourself "where was it likely to have been built?"

Well, let's take into consideration it's size first.Looking from the pictures I assume that this particular building does have 25 floors, plus the lobby, the penthouses and two mechanical floors....seems a pretty small skyscraper, something that it is perhaps easier to find in a mid.sized city rather than in a large metropolis (e.g you perhaps might have better chances to find something similar in Toledo, OH, or Fort Worth, or Buffalo more than in New York or Chicago)...and if we take this consideration for valid then we might want to consider that perhaps in a mid sized city there should be very few building that could affect their lights at night, as perhaps few buildings are so large.

You can't perhaps do much for the other things that have an impact on the "nightlight" of those building, that is, as you've said street illuminations, cars and so on.Here being generic is the best option.

quote>

I think the logic is a bit flawed. I bet you'll find WAY more 25 storey buildings in New York, or Shanghai than in the rest of US cities combined. Besides it isn't so much just buildings that actually affect the said building, but overall scene of the city BELOW them.

Also how is what I made is NOT generic. Do you see any clear specificity there? If you do could you word how one would be more generic?

Originally posted by: Francis90b

But perhaps searching for how a building similar to the ones you're trying to nightlight does actually appear at night might be a good idea.quote>

in effect here you suggest to break the same genericity principle you had been advocating in the paragraph before this?

Truth to be told, in the end it is a very much matter of personal preferences. You would either like it, or you would not. There are pictures to be found that show glass buildings glow with environmental reflections at night and those virtually black - this very much depends on such a simple fact as an exposure of photograph. Get it shorter and those will disappear. This situation is particularly aggravated by a very small (still) dynamic range of modern cameras.But naturally it is also a function of the said building environment. If it is built in an open field with nothing at all for miles around it - no lights on the street or cars passing by - naturally there will be nothing to reflect. And as such this lack of reflection would signify such an isolate position.

Of course, it all technically irrelevant to SC4. Any reflections (except self reflection that is) are. Since those are by definition of the immediate environment and that is IMPOSSIBLE to accomplish in SC4.  So instead it is a creation of an illusion. Then next question what is the illusion you are going for? Illusion of a building in an empty field or one in a busy city. And here it is both - matter of design and preference.