Real Highway (RHW) - Development and Support

[Haljackey 17,398]

WHOA!! Talk about weaving entrance/exits fishstix001!  As discussed earlier, a "frontage" road is not an acceptable way to have the ramps configured in.  Tarkus' model or the Parclo Interchanges prevent weaving and elimate the need for frontage roads.  These configurations are used in (sub)urban areas, not in the countryside.  A more internationally-friendly version should be made because frontage roads are only used in some areas in few countries.  Heres a photo showing what should be done with the interchanges.

Yes!

http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=parclo&ie=UTF8&z=15&ll=42.940936,-81.17918&spn=0.015111,0.029268&om=1

No!

http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=frontage+road&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF8&om=1&z=15&ll=43.176202,-79.240522&spn=0.015053,0.029268

[WorfoSAUR 0]

I like Tarkus' ramps...Thats what all the intersections look like here in Utah.

[wolverine 12]

double post

[wolverine 12]

Looking great!

[LivingInThePast 364]

@fishstix001: That's not exactly what I'm talking about... My version has 4 ramps, with merging one-way roads. See, the normal highway isn't on a hill, and...it should be all explained in the drawing! http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=Austin,+TX&ie=UTF8&z=17&ll=30.630564,-96.304039&spn=0.005428,0.013229&t=k&om=1&iwloc=A">Do you want Google Maps to show ya?

@WorfoSAUR: Ramps by Tarkus? They'd be terrible in real life!

@Wolverine: Doubleposter at 1250 posts? Shameful!

[Keiran Halcyon 0]

@LivingInThePast: The point is that RHW should not have one-way rows paralleling it at all. If you need that, then you should be using normal highways.

@Tarkus: You should consider basing the on/off ramps on ArkenbergeJoe's work for the NAM: https://www.simtropolis.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=124&threadid=64340&STARTPAGE=108&FTVAR_FORUMVIEWTMP=Linear#734356

[fishstix001 0]

Originally posted by: LivingInThePast @fishstix001: That's not exactly what I'm talking about... My version has 4 ramps, with merging one-way roads. See, the normal highway isn't on a hill, and...it should be all explained in the drawing! Do you want Google Maps to show ya?

@WorfoSAUR: Ramps by Tarkus? They'd be terrible in real life!

@Wolverine: Doubleposter at 1250 posts? Shameful!quote>

that is on a hill

and I get the general idea...you're going for more of a diamond shape

[artforce1 5]

Ok, how about this.  A new team to create onramps/off ramps for the RHW. Call it like the RHWO/ODP (Rural Highway Onramp/Offramp Development Project).  Because if the NAM falls through, I know a lot of hard work already invested by many on the RHW team may be lost.  I dunno, if I was smarter and worked harder on this, I probably could have made my own puzzle pieces by now.  Which, by the way, I think would probably be the easiest way to go if I do embark on this idea.

[Tarkus 6,933]

@haljackey: The parclo is something I'd like to look into tackling.  It seems there has been quite a bit of demand for it.

@fishstix001: I actually have seen some "frontage" type interchanges similar to that, where the highway is elevated above the frontage road.  They usually don't have quite so many ramps, though.

@WolfoSAUR: Glad you liked the interchange!   The diamond interchanges are generally quite prevalent throughout the Western US. 

@LivingInThePast:  You're right!  They probably would be terrible in real life in that form.  I still need to get the ramps on the model looking a little less jagged. (there's a lot of imperfections in the model you can't see in the picture . . . my GMAX skills are slowly improving, though.)  In order to get a Texas-style frontage-type interchange like that, it really wouldn't require anything more than a few textures and a little modding of the RHW's intersection capabilities.

@Keiran Halcyon: ArkenbergeJoe's ramps are very similar to what I'm trying to do.  I just need to get my models to look a little less cheesy.

@artforce1: That is a great idea!  I'd be interested in being a part of that project . . . my time might be a bit limited at times, but once I get the process down, I should be able to produce interchanges and puzzle pieces quite rapidly.  I've got a few ideas I'd like to try out with that, possibly even some separate ramp pieces.  I'm most worried about pathing.  I had read on one of the official NAM posts that the next NAM was supposed to have come out a few months ago . . . and from what qurlix said, the RHW kind of got absorbed into the NAM, so I have no idea what's going on there . . .

By the way, congratulations on your Master's degree and new job!  I just finished my Master's up back in June, and recently started on my Ph. D.  And yes, the GHSDP has been a great addition to SC4.

-Tarkus

[fishstix001 0]

Originally posted by: Tarkus @haljackey: The parclo is something I'd like to look into tackling.  It seems there has been quite a bit of demand for it.

@fishstix001: I actually have seen some "frontage" type interchanges similar to that, where the highway is elevated above the frontage road.  They usually don't have quite so many ramps, though.

@WolfoSAUR: Glad you liked the interchange!   The diamond interchanges are generally quite prevalent throughout the Western US. 

@LivingInThePast:  You're right!  They probably would be terrible in real life in that form.  I still need to get the ramps on the model looking a little less jagged. (there's a lot of imperfections in the model you can't see in the picture . . . my GMAX skills are slowly improving, though.)  In order to get a Texas-style frontage-type interchange like that, it really wouldn't require anything more than a few textures and a little modding of the RHW's intersection capabilities.

@Keiran Halcyon: ArkenbergeJoe's ramps are very similar to what I'm trying to do.  I just need to get my models to look a little less cheesy.

@artforce1: That is a great idea!  I'd be interested in being a part of that project . . . my time might be a bit limited at times, but once I get the process down, I should be able to produce interchanges and puzzle pieces quite rapidly.  I've got a few ideas I'd like to try out with that, possibly even some separate ramp pieces.  I'm most worried about pathing.  I had read on one of the official NAM posts that the next NAM was supposed to have come out a few months ago . . . and from what qurlix said, the RHW kind of got absorbed into the NAM, so I have no idea what's going on there . . .

By the way, congratulations on your Master's degree and new job!  I just finished my Master's up back in June, and recently started on my Ph. D.  And yes, the GHSDP has been a great addition to SC4.

-Tarkus

quote>

there should be one on ramp and one exit ramp on each side...I was expirimenting with it

[MaybeMemories06 0]

@Kieran: While I do agree that there should not be frontage roads right next to a highway, I also (kindof) see the point to it. Here in vegas, we have I-15, and on one side we have Industrial Ave and the other Frank Sinatra Dr. There were buildings built on the main road through town before the interstate came through, and so the frontage roads are a necessity. They did a similar thing with the I-215, but that was just bad planning on the cities part, because they intended on using them to divert traffic while they laid the mainlines, then destroy the frontage roads, but never put safeguards in place so a bunch of business parks sprouted up along them, and if they were to close the frontage roads it would be a disaster to local business. So while I don't like the idea, I do still understand why in some instances it would be necessary and even beneficial. You now have the speed/capacity of a freeway, but the accessibility of an avenue.

[LivingInThePast 364]

@Everybody: My point was also the level highway bridge and the frontage road merge.

@Keiran: No parallel frontage roads? Where do you live? Everywhere has them to communicate with crossing roads! Geez!

[Keiran Halcyon 0]

MaybeMemories06 and LivingInThePast, That's not what I said. My argument is that rural highways, not being intended for use within a city, should not have frontage roads. Normal highways are an entirely different story.

Oh, and I nominally live in Chicago off I-94 north of downtown, which in general does not have frontage roads in the sense being discussed here. I go to school in Champaign-Urbana (IL), near I-74, which also does not have a frontage road used for access to the highway - all highway access is via diamond interchanges with perpendicular roads. But I spent a summer in Austin, so I'm familiar with the system.

[bakercity 270]

Southeastern Wisconsin ( Racine-Kenosha counties ) has the frontage roads on both sides of the freeway.

[jplumbley 5]

Man Tarkus... Your on fire...

Im still wondering if Qurlix is still around, havent seen him post here in a while. He was the brainy guy who came up with this thread in the first place!! Hopefully the super modder comes back and says hi atleast soon.

[MaybeMemories06 0]

@Kieran: Sorry, Misread. I kinda consider I-15 thru Utah to be a 'Rural Highway' tho, cuz most of the cities along it are just kinda crappy and small. I completely forgot, having not been on one in recent history, that high-speed roads don't have to be freeways lol. Anyway, yeah sorry. I'll think before I respond =)

[Keiran Halcyon 0]

Yeah, well, and actually I've kinda been arguing a point that I don't agree with 100% anyway. Yes, the project is called the Rural Highway project, but a secondary use is to be able to split a highway and take the two directions down different routes, which could have uses in a city. And bakercity's point is valid as well. (I have a vivid memory of exiting onto one of the frontage roads he mentions, on my way from Chicago to Madison, nearly blind from the combination of a blizard and a flakey windshield wiper. Not fun.)

[LivingInThePast 364]

@Keiran: Oh, I get it now!

Anyways, my complaint is a real one with the mod and not real highways. When I cross a road over it, why does cross traffic stop? It's completely bad.

[Tarkus 6,933]

@jplumbley: Yeah, qurlix really knows a lot about transit-modding.  I think he took over the NAM after Tropod quit modding.  As far as I know he hasn't been around these parts since the middle of last month . . . probably just occupied with other stuff more important than ST for the time being, like most of the modders seem to be . . . maybe they'll resurface soon.

@Keiran Halcyon and LivingInThePast:  Well, the way I'd like to see the RHW go is not just as a rural highway, but an all-purpose highway to completely replace the default Maxis highways . . .

The problem is right now that regardless of whether or not people end up using the RHW for just a rural highway or an all-purpose highway, it's still not entirely functional.  We are fortunate that the RHW Development Team (qurlix, et al) left us a good base to build upon. However, there are three crucial things I can think of that really need to be done to get the RHW functioning. 

1) Puzzle Pieces.  Primarily, we need ramps, pieces for other networks (besides roads) over top of the RHW, and interchanges..  Elevated RHW would also be nice.  I've got the models in the works for these, but pathing is still a bit overwhelming . . .

One way I'd like to go with it for the interchanges possibly is a more "modular" design to maximize customization potential.

2) Textures and RULs.  The textures for the RHW mod need to be finished such that various intersections won't result in a revert to the standard "Road-style" ANT textures.  Particularly crucial is textures/RULs such that one-way roads and other RHWs can be built off of the RHW diagonally, which would possibly be a way to achieving ramps/exits, as well as the aforementioned frontage roads. 

3) Tunnels and Bridges.  As far as I know, this is difficult if not entirely impossible.  Unless, of course, a) Buggi is successful in getting EA to share some source code info regarding transit networks (in which case, problem solved), or b) every transit modding guru in hiding at ST comes out of the woodwork . . .

If anyone can think of anything else, feel free to add . . .

-Tarkus

 

[jplumbley 5]

Well Tarkus... I have to say your doing a good job.. Dont give up as so many have before.

I agree Qurlix knows alot!! He is the man.(not to take anything from any other modders like Swamper77 and Smoncrie) And hopefully Buggi can extract the needed unknown information about Transit Networks from Maxis!! We could be at a very interesting junction in SC4 that may lead to another jump in the capabilities of our amazing game through Buggi and his contacts. I myself intend in my spare time from school to learn more about the transit networks and modding them and maybe will learn enough to help.

JPlumbley

[LivingInThePast 364]

@Tarkus: That's right! Although I would like to see 6-lane highways divided by medians and the Maxis highways for the big urban areas.

EDIT: Also, I installed both ANT dats in the NAM folder. Now, two RHW buttons show up.

[Sydney Claridge 106]

Originally posted by: LivingInThePast @Tarkus: That's right! Although I would like to see 6-lane highways divided by medians and the Maxis highways for the big urban areas.

EDIT: Also, I installed both ANT dats in the NAM folder. Now, two RHW buttons show up.quote>

I personally think that the Maxis highways aren't very realistic.  Most urban freeways in the US are much wider than the Maxis freeways.  I think that there needs to be a nice large RHW-style highway for urban areas.  There was once a proposal for a 5-lane, 2-tile RHW, but I don't know what happened to that.

[cantienc 0]

Hi ! Where I can find the last version ?

Thank's.

[vester_DK 477]

Found it back the pages: http://koti.mbnet.fi/heka33/RHW-public-v012.zip

[cantienc 0]

Thnak you very much !

[MaybeMemories06 0]

can we like sticky that to be the very first reply in this thread? I notice people all the time (Myself included) can't ever find it on their first try and have to ask for it. It would just be so much prettier if it were stickied somewhere. Or maybe make a links topic? Iuno. Ideas?

[Haljackey 17,398]

Well, MaybeMemories06, I have it in my signiture to try to help people find it. For one link to be yet another sticky in this "many sticky" thread seems hardly possible. You can help spread the word of the RHW by putting the link in your signiture and encourage others to add them too and also look in the RHW project right here.

[LivingInThePast 364]

Here is my simply amazing "cross traffic does not stop!"

[qurlix 20]

Hello everyone!  It is nice to be home again.  I'm not quite back into the swing of things, but I can offer plenty of insight on status and questions...

The current state of affairs...

The NAM is in limbo...there are many completed portions of it, but pretty much 0% of the team is around right now.  The official team leader of the NAM is smoncrie.  Nothing is really official about the exact duties of the team leader, but it is pretty much unanimous that the NAM cannot be finished until he approves it, much less the fact that he has made a majority of the new content so compiling it without him would be totally out of the question.  AFAIK he is currently stricken with serious RL issues and hasn't been around for quite a while, which is perfectly understandable but unfortunate for the rest of us.

The RHW project was on hold, but now it's up and running again...  If NAM team activity doesn't pick up sometime soon, I am considering another NAM-independent release.  Most importantly this one would contain three major bug fixes: revamped drawing schemes (which just means 90% less "degrading" of the RHW), addition of null end-cap paths (which means drawing speed doubles), and no more multiple menu item buttons (to LITP - it's currently unfixable).  For other content, I can't say what new intersections will be available (not because I'm not telling you; because I don't actually know)

Naming...

I'm not a huge fan of "Rural" highway either...so far I haven't found anything that captures the essence of the project well enough that I make the effort to go and change everything that is already named "RHW," but if you come up with something, please tell me.  For now, just think that the R stands for "Real" or "Replacement" or "Redesigned"...or maybe just call them "RHighways" like it's a brand name...I dunno.

Link to old version...

I agree that a page sticky thing would be really nice, but such a feature does not yet exist in these forums.  The very first post of the thread, does, however, have the URL.

Puzzle Pieces...

I know almost nothing of modelling...I was only able to create the Road and GLR puzzle pieces because I could simply steal the models from other puzzle pieces.  So basically all that is done in that aspect is what Tarkus has done (which is looking very good).  FYI, Tarkus, if you're stuck on the pathing aspect, I can handle that...I just can't model (I don't even have gMax anymore).

At-Grade Intersections...

At-grade road intersections will be as you've shown, LITP.  I'm pretty sure I already have the textures, too.  I'm thinking at-grade avenue intersections will be light controlled, however.  You don't see too many intersections between avenues and highways, but there are one or two near me and they are all light-controlled. (Southeastern Wisconsin)    Any international perspectives on the issue?  From what I know I think most other places just don't have at-grade avenue-highway intersections.

---

That about covers most of the recent stuff.  If I missed something, or you've got something new, just post it.

Thanks for the comments, too.  Though it should be known smoncrie probably knows quite a bit more than I do; and we each know different fields of transit modding...  He knows much more about exemplars and properties, like slope tolerance, bridges and tunnels, network props, not to mention he can model well and knows all the texture and model IID patterns and relations.  Meanwhile I'm more the crazed scientist looking for loopholes in the connections between different elements that I can exploit to make new content.  At least that's how I see it.

And with that I'm off to<

[LivingInThePast 364]

Thanks, qurlix! When in the case you would want to have a stoplight, you could just change the RHW into a 1way road or an avenue. Here's a new name for the RHW: Divided Highway. (DHW)