Caffeinated Alcoholic Energy Drinks

[LivingInThePast 364]

 One of the lesser things in the news is the banning of drinks that combine alcohol and caffeine, like Four Loko.

The danger is that the caffeine makes you think that you're less drunk than you really are (a single can of Four Loko contains alcohol and caffeine equivalent to five beers and two coffees...)

But should they actually be banned? 

Discuss.

[Easy Bakes 253]

Depends on were they are selling them.

both alcohol and caffine dehydrate you and I could not imagine how bad the hangover would  be, geting your drink on and haveing caffine in your system.

Dehydration and restless sleep nice....

[EyeofMobius 27]

Hmm I suggest that bans like these should not be put into place. From my experience of the drinks that are more specifically being targeted the energy/alcohol variety taste disgusting anyways and have for the last number of years been failing miserabley after short existences.

A ban like this would severely injure some of the drinks that have become successful because the focus is on a specific taste rather than getting drunk and hyperactive at the same time. For example my grandparents are particularly fond of having coffee beers once in awhile with meals where being drunk is no longer something they intend on achieving. A number of premixed cocktails common in bars with cola being a key ingredient are successfully being distributed in many places around the world and a ban like this would naturally hurt distribution..

Bans of this nature just waste the time of government on grounds of morality and child protection in most cases and are inneffective solutions to create a facade of action for winning votes.

[Larks2242 251]

I'm not old enough to drink alcoholic drinks but, I wouldn't agree with banning them, the people who buy those drinks have a right to chose what they want to do, Its not right to not allow someone to have something they can handle, just because say one person makes mistake, if kept doing that then cars would be illegal.

[TekindusT 3,809]

Isn't this drink the same thing than mixing in a single glass an alcoholic drink and Red Bull, Burn, Monster or any other energy drink?

[Wrightguy0 40]

to be honest, it's not a matter of what's right and freedom of choice, it's about the fact that energy drinks are harmful and so is booze, both are addictive and combining the two is exceptionally stupid and dangerous, people forget energy drinks are more than caffeine, there are so many additives that each drink has the potential to do a number of things to your system, none of them good, and tossing alcohol into the mix is bad. people have died from drinking energy drinks because they think of it as Soda, they'll make the same sort of misconceptions about things like Four Loko being similar to beer, or even worse they'll think that caffeine negates the alcohol and that they will still "be good"

[GMT 389]

such thing exists? wow, a dream came true.

in yo face reality check!!

there's no use in banning them. why ban a premixed drink when there's plenty of longdrinks combining both, eg vodka redbull?

I think the problem here is, once more, the matter of alcoholic beverages and the US.

no secret told when saying that there's a lot of noise concerning this, always was, always will be.

My 2 cents: Instead of swinging the blunt mace of banning, get over it and teach a responsible drinking behavior.

[quicksilver991 37]

I completely agree, responsible behavior is the key, not banning.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

I thought the lesson had been learned with the repeal of the Volsted Act.  There is no point in banning such things.  Either such a ban is worked around, or a new racketeering opportunity is created.

These drinks are harmful, so a proper labelling act would be more to the point.  Something like a skull and crossed bones on an official government label should do it.  Or maybe Mr. Yuk.

It wouldn't hurt to say something harsh to the maker of this poison, and to tax the living daylights out of the company.

Forbidding something just makes it atractive.  So shut up, and tax the hell out of it.

[GMT 389]

Maybe you should take into consideration that taxing the hell outa it does 2 things:

1) equal effects like banning it (except, maybe, the doing-something-illegal-kick)

2) encourages distilling/brewing of own substances which might turn out to be WAY worse than legally selling it for a reasonable price (as this allows government bodies to control the ingredients, max % of acolhol etc)

[antsel 841]

Where can I get my hands on this... Four Loko? Sounds delicious!

[Johan_91 179]

Agree with selles, would very much like to try it out. =D =D

And I am also opposing a ban, as it is as easy to mix yourself and I would buy these bottles rather than a whole bottle of vodka and loads of red bulls....and there are enough bans concerning alcohol already in this world.

[Tarkus 6,932]

I'm not entirely sure the ban was the smartest idea, either.  The substances in it are legal and mixing caffeine and alcohol can easily be accomplished already.  I do think you'd have to be out of your mind to drink that stuff, however, and I think encouraging retailers to voluntarily pull the product off their shelves, or encouraging manufacturers to reformulate, would be a solid idea. 

There kind of was a voluntary ban up here in Oregon and Washington, after the incident with the students up at CWU and before the state governments decided to take action.  Pretty much everyone had taken it off the shelf . . . except for 7-Eleven, who had giant pyramids of Four Loko cases in-store, as the publicity about the incident simply increased demand. 

The kids who got sick after drinking a ton of the stuff up in Washington were not of legal drinking age, either.  The oldest were 19, and the youngest was 17. (How you can be in college at 17 but stupid enough to go on a Four Loko bender is beyond me.)  Proper enforcement of laws regarding the sale of alcohol to minors could have minimized the furor--though the way Washington handles ID cards/licenses is really just asking for fraud and fake IDs.  Another idea that could potentially work would be raising the age for alcohol-caffeine combo drinks to 25 or something, which would make it more difficult for college students prone to binge drinking to obtain.

Interestingly, after the ban, Four Loko is actually still for sale here in Oregon, but it's been reformulated--it's now 12% alcohol by volume and caffeine-free.  I don't know if that's happened elsewhere.

-Alex (Tarkus)

[GMT 389]

instead of raising the age, lower it.

and yes I am serious.

works throughout europe, I don't see why it won't work in the US. And yes, there's teens getting waisted regualarly, and yes, they are not always of legal drinking age (as it starts somewhere between 16 and 18). same happens in the US on literally every college party ;-)

Like I said, the very restrictive position of the public makes it more interesting to act against it and harder to achieve a responsible drinking manner.

but then again, there's driving at the age of 16 and the 2nd amendment, guess that evens it out between the "old" and the "new" world ;-)

[antsel 841]

I don't think the problem is so much the combination of caffeine and alcohol, as to the people who are consuming it. I'm sure there are people who would be happy enough to drink one can and say that's enough. But with everything, there's always going to be people who need to have more. And whether or not this particular drink, Four Loko is banned or not, there are going to be people who get excessively drunk enough to cause a ruckus. It doesn't matter whether they're drinking beer, vodka, whiskey or Four Loko. There are going to be people that abuse alcohol, and drink excessively enough to lose control.

[DocRorlach 25]

Always thought it an odd discrepancy that in the US you can be old enough to participate in the political process; old enough to get legally equipped with all manner of instruments of destriuction (from you basic SUV all the way to tanks, guns & other explosive items - in the name of the country , of course). Heck, you can get married but risk arrest if you were to celebrate your wedding with a beer & a chaser. And now, to make the idioc complete, they ban a drink that anyone can simply mix at home out of readily available items? What next? Ban breating within a hundred yard radius of a distillery?

[AIX 270]

^^ This. If one is "adult enough" to serve in the armed forces and participate in the political process, then one is "adult enough" to have a drink. Regardless of where min ages are set or how bans are carried out, there will always be the few stupid people who abuse it. The US needs to stop wasting its time and money trying to "save" people from their own stupidity - it's futile [and the herds need to be thinned out anyway (/sarcasm)].

[wallacet 336]

I really don't agree with a ban. My friends and I drink 4 lokos on occasion and have a hell of a night when we do. But we know ( and most other people should know as well) our limits and don't take it too far. Banning this will cause more trouble than there is now, as I have seen on multiple blogs people have come up with their own quick fixes to get the same effect. Malt liquor and caffeine pills, Monster and malt liquor, etc. Even if you ban it, people are still going to find ways to drink it. By drinking it your taking a risk (as with drinking anything), and I think we should be allowed to drink it at our own risk, and suffer the possible consequences later. Its that simple

[Slashback 136]

"Caffeinated Alcoholic Energy Drinks" - I would rather drink from the toilet...

[Barbarossa 51]

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  Edited September 8, 2012 by Barbarossa  

[Larks2242 251]

Yea, People would just unknowingly add too much of something by mistake and make it far more dangerous (See Moonshine).

[Slashback 136]

Originally posted by: Barbarossa

There is no point in banning a prepared beverage when anyone can just resort to making their own mixed drinks, likely in far worse proportions.

Barbarossaquote>

Excactly, we must just hope that people think about themselves before doing such things.

[Athanasius 0]

what kind of moronic, slack-jawed, 1 digit IQ person would drink such a disgusting sounding drink?

they banned smoking in pubs due to the effect taking stimulants and depressives at the same time have on you're heart (combining these increases your risk of a heart attack by a synergistic factor) so allowing a commercial business make money for the reason something was banned presviously is hypocritical therefore it should be banned (if smoking in pubs has been banned)

mixing drinks can't be helped, but having these mixed and then tinned and sold can have something done about it. the availibility of these drinks means people think that it's a good idea to mix stimulants and depressives. it's bad in the same way crime fiction on tv is bad - it gives morons ideas - never a good idea.

[Larks2242 251]

Originally posted by: Athanasius

what kind of moronic, slack-jawed, 1 digit IQ person would drink such a disgusting sounding drink?

quote>

Lets not call them stupid, why does it matter what they wanna drink?

I just don't understand why it should be anyone elses concern with what people drink, for example DJ Screw died from something he drank, but again he knew what he was getting into, correct me if i'm wrong but i don't see why its anyones business what he does in his personal life.

[EyeofMobius 27]

It is understandable the dangers of these beverages which mask the effects of intoxication but like most things in life understanding comes through experience. In my family I grew up being given a glass of wine at family dinners from the age of 8 and was allowed to share a beer with family at 12. Through an upbringing that wasn't repressed when it comes to alcohol I gained experience to understand alcohol. I also found the taste to not be agreeable to me until about 16 and even then I was picky and didn't enjoy it in large amounts. The majority of my friends who came from alcohol repressed upbringings turned 18 and had a rough time of things. Lots of them have clear thresholds that they can easily blow past from inexperience to the point where they vomit or have remarkable personality shifts.

I feel that the repression of it until the legal age of consumption coupled with the way that alcohol is portrayed in popular culture coming of age stories is far more destructive than some fancy beverage. So to everyone who has thus far posted the need for responsible education over repression I couldn't agree more.

[antsel 841]

Originally posted by: Athanasius

what kind of moronic, slack-jawed, 1 digit IQ person would drink such a disgusting sounding drink?quote>

Argumentum ad hominem. Some of us triple digit IQ people think this drink sounds delicious.

Originally posted by: Athanasius

they banned smoking in pubs due to the effect taking stimulants and depressives at the same time have on you're heartquote>

As far as I'm concerned, they banned smoking in pubs and all other public places because of air quality issues and NOT because of the mixing of stimulants and depressives. Smokers will smoke while drinking regardless of whether they're allowed to do it in the pub or not. But this is not the issue.

Originally posted by: Athanasius

it's bad in the same way crime fiction on tv is bad - it gives morons ideas - never a good idea.quote>

Ever heard of Albert Bandura? It doesn't exactly work that way.

[Duke87 1,070]

This is the kind of insanity you end up with when you give regulatory bodies not only the power the power but the responsibility to ban things.

The real silliness here is a quirk of the way regulation works. The general purpose of the FDA is to make sure that the food and drugs being sold in the country are safe for consumption (the determination of whether or not something is "safe", admittedly, can be subjective). And indeed, there is a very good argument to be made that a drink containing both caffeine and alcohol is not safe for consumption and thus, can't be permitted to be sold. That much follows logically.

However, FDA can only stop things from being sold, not from being manufactured. Anything that the FDA has banned or restricted the sale of is perfectly legal for you to make yourself and use yourself, so long as it is not also otherwise banned as a controlled substance... but that is usually a non-issue since the substances in question are generally beyond the capability of your average citizen to make in their basement and generally not overly desirable, either. This case is special because the banned substance is both in demand and ridiculously easy to make oneself. But that doesn't matter. So long as the FDA bans selling Four Loko, they are technically doing their job, even if the regulation effectively means jack.

And this is why I am not a lawyer.

[LivingInThePast 364]

Well, Four Loko WAS reformulated to avoid the caffeine and other "energy" stuff.

Furthermore, Four Loko wasn't singled out but merely the most prominent example (if that helps clear anything up)

[Larks2242 251]

Originally posted by: Duke87

The general purpose of the FDA is to make sure that the food and drugs being sold in the country are safe for consumption (the determination of whether or not something is "safe", admittedly, can be subjective). And indeed, there is a very good argument to be made that a drink containing both caffeine and alcohol is not safe for consumption and thus, can't be permitted to be sold. That much follows logically.

So long as the FDA bans selling Four Loko, they are technically doing their job, even if the regulation effectively means jack.

quote>

I don't know if thats doing their job, I'm guessing next on their agenda is banning soft drinks cause you could get diabetes?

Other than that part i agree.

Edit: Is there any data out there that proves how much worse this is than any other alcholic and/or energy drink?

[Meg 368]

Originally posted by: AIX

^^ This. If one is "adult enough" to serve in the armed forces and participate in the political process, then one is "adult enough" to have a drink.quote>

In the US, time was that an 18 year old was old enough to be drafted but not old enough to vote or buy alcoholic beverages.

This appeared to many to be very unfair especially since the draft was in place.  If a guy could get drafted, he should be able to vote for or against the politicians making the decisions about going to war.   Eventually the Constitution was amended to change the voting age to 18. [link] 

Somewhere in there, various states lowered the drinking age to 18.   Where and when I grew up, it was 18 for beer and wine, 21 for hard liquor.   However, it didn't take long before this idea was considered to be a failure.   The number of kids dying in drunk driving crashes increased dramatically.

At the high school I attended, one class lost 9 members the summer after graduation; all to drunk driving.  This was happening on a widespread basis, widespread enought that the laws were changed.

Now, to be fair, back in those days we didn't have concepts like "designated driver".  Nor did we have the incremental driver's licenses that many states have these days.  

But, getting back to the topic at hand . . .  caffeine and alcohol mixed together has been around for ages.  The problem with mega-caffeine and alcohol is that it can keep the drinker from passing out.  Passing out is the body's way of saying it has had enough.   Continue to drink past that point and you risk alcohol poisoning.

Usually they just pump out your stomach but, in some cases, they insert an IV and a catheter to flush your system out.  (I've been told that having a catheter inserted is even less fun than it sounds.)

I have heard too many kids say that they didn't know alcohol poisoning could happen.   Are the drug prevention programs really skipping over that?