Sgt Pepper's BATs

[Susaji 523]

Nice Building!

[SimCoug 5,972]

Congrats on the WTC upload, great work!

[T Wrecks 10,209]

Gee, those rooftops were barren in real life - I just had a look at aerial photos of the old WTC. Therefore I think your roof texture should be a lot more subtle, too. I'm all for livening things up a little and introducing at least some texture variation, but maybe adding a strong and clearly recognisable linear structure that wasn't there on the original is not the ideal solution. I think it's one of the hardest challenges for a BATter to make boring look interesting. Everybody can make a great show with a building full of junk, even if that junk is modeled and textured at a mediocre level. When you have nothing to hide any shortcomings or weaknesses, things get really difficult. I'm sure you'll be up to that challenge in the end, though - just not quite there yet in case of that roof texture as far as I am concerned.

[Sgt Pepper 864]

Thanks everyone for your kind words.

Gn_leugim- Yeah I need to fix that. I didn't really notice the tiling myself actually but my perception of repetition in textures isn't really keen.

T Wrecks- Thanks for your advice. Your critique is always welcome here. I need to find a way to really translate a roof texture there. It was pretty barren and clean looking. I'm thinking about using a pretty clean concrete texture and stretching and resizing it to fit the roof. Earlier I tried cropping an Top view of the roof and using the burn tool in GIMP for some grime around the edges...but I couldn't get the UVW Map to fit that new texture perfectly. I guess that had to do with the collection of boxes that shape the building. But I will see what else I can do here that looks good enough.

I decided to start on 3 WTC-

Bleh that temporary roof. Should I add more hints of blue to the facade texture? Is the glass too dark?

Unlike 4 WTC and the other plaza buildings I plan to do....I actually measured this one in Google Earth. I changed the date of the imagery back to a 1997 view of New York and measured the Hotel from there.Strangely they don't have a color image of New York from the late 90's or 2000 in Google Earth or at least in the Lower Manhattan Area. Not sure why I wanted to get an exact measurement here since I wanted to change the buildings a bit...but I did and already got started on it from there. I will be keeping it's depth of tiles at 3. However, the length of it in tiles surpasses 6 tiles to be 7...so unfortunately this one won't be a growable hotel. So I hope a ploppable will suffice. The base of it will be much different than the real one, especially since I'm not doing some elevated plaza that it sat on.

Any other thoughts or ideas on it?

EDIT: Oh by the way, it will be a CS$$$ Hotel, but not a Marriott. The original hotel that was built was called a Vista Hotel before Marriott acquired it, and I think for the sake of some differentiation the logo will say Vista on it instead of Marriott.

  Edited October 5, 2012 by Sgt Pepper  

[Gn_leugim 853]

the wall texture could get a hint of blue or pink, to match the original game's pallet IMO. the windows to me look like darkspots, but, I am questionable regading dark textures issues ^^

[T Wrecks 10,209]

Why would it not be growable if it surpasses 6 tiles? A simple trick is all that it takes...

[Gn_leugim 853]

with PIM-X you dont need trick at all now that I think

[IL. 1,043]

Perfecto!

But not sure I feel that something is missing about that BAT.

Maybe doors, or roof junks and some details on the roof woukd make it perfect (like in Japanese BATs, they have really good roof junk).

[ComeTogetherOverMe 4]

Are you going to make an entire plaza complex with all (but 7 WTC, of course ) buildings just like Rubik3's? Or just separate buildings?

[T Wrecks 10,209]

Separate buildings AFAIK. I can imagine that his computer would melt if he tried to render them all in one piece...

[ComeTogetherOverMe 4]

Oh, what are Sgt's computer specs?

  Edited October 8, 2012 by Geometry345  

[T Wrecks 10,209]

I don't remember off the top of my head, although we had that topic in the past. Anyway, he wrote in his NYBT thread that rendering the Chase Building took 12 hours, and that's a very "skinny" skyscraper. Since render times are related to LOD size and the LOD shell for the WTC complex would be (A) freaking tall (up to the tip of the antenna atop the North Tower!) and (B) ridicuously fat to accommodate all the side buildings, plaza and stuff, the render would take extremely long.

Actually, we're probably not talking about "how much time to render?" but rather about "how much time to the render error?".

That's why even rubik3 rendered WTC in five different packages, and AFAIR, the render for the two main towers alone took several days.

[Sgt Pepper 864]

Gn_leugim- I added a slight blue hue to the hotel this time. I think it looks much better now. Sounds like this PIM X can do a lot more than I even know.

IL- Well that's because the model is far from done. Haha. It's in a very early stage I was just showing what I had so far.

Geometry- I'm making all the buildings but it won't be an accurate representation of the buildings exactly. I wondered about once they are all done having a Landmark lot with all the buildings on it but I'm not sure about it at this time.

T Wrecks- Oh my computer specs. At least I switched to my laptop recently. Renders are much faster. I was actually surprised to learn that the North Tower took actually over 17 hours. Chase took about/around 12 hours or so. I may have exaggerated but I remember it taking all night starting around... Hmm... I can't exactly remember how many hours Chase took exactly. It seemed around 12 since I started it late in the evening or at night and then it finished early next morning so 12 is an estimation but it felt right. I could have sworn I wrote down the seconds that it took down somewhere to tell someone... About that trick making it growable even with it surpassing 6 tiles in length, is this in Reader or PIM X? Or something within the Lot Editor itself?

Oh and did you all know that the graphics card to my desktop(long before I switched to my laptop) actually melted before? It was quite a surprise when me and my dad took it out to replace it with a new one. Well, at least the computer didn't explode.

Okay I haven't done much at all but this is where I am at-

That's a general idea of what the shape of the base will be(on that side). It's definitely different since my version won't have an elevated plaza(like how the real building was situated on). And the roof is obviously far from done still.

[Gn_leugim 853]

ahh, it looks way better and yes, PIM-X does wonders!! but not everything yet. Reader is still a have if you mod

and hope your pc is ok =\

[T Wrecks 10,209]

I think what this building needs most is one of your fabulous glass textures... of course a very subdued one this time because the glass apparently is really dark and monotonous IRL, but still... well, we aren't at this point yet, I suppose.

ATM, I'm more concerned with the concept. If you don't make the raised plaza around the building, wouldn't it make more sense to leave out that odd podium and make the oversized glass awning a bit smaller? I must take a look at the real complex again, but the way it is now, the building looks odd to me.

Another thought I just had: Have you tried using rubik's lot and replacing his buildings on it with yours? You know they made textures especially for the off-grid avenue to the southern side of the WTC complex, and if your buildings aligned with these textures, an all-in-one lot would be a lot easier to make... just a thought.

[Sgt Pepper 864]

Gn_leugim- Oh Reader is more murky water for me. Oh my desktop is...somewhat fine now. It's as old as me and I think it finally is dying out because it's slower than ever and sometimes won't even turn on, or if it turns on it won't do anything. And then it won't even properly shut off. Pressing Start then shut down, it can sit at that shutting down screen for like over a day so I'd have to press the power button manually. But I have my laptop now so it's all good for now.

T Wrecks- Ah, well the glass texture I am using is one I use often with my recent creations, I guess it's hard to tell because of the darkness. So I'll take that as I need to brighten it up a bit and probably redo some mapping on it? By the way, this texture I'm using(that I also used on Chase and B5 and a few others actually) is from the background of a Read-Me. They made this blue background from the Maxis Glass, edited with like a different background pattern or something and it well looked like a good alternative to the unedited Maxis Glass. I can fool around with this some more for a more preferred result though.

Hmm I suppose it would. Having more of a glass base instead without the podium? My glass awning is different from the real one, but recreating the real one would probably be better, but I think the real one is actually bigger, or at least wider. I made the podium out of inspiration from the actual base(which is essentially the elevated plaza being its first floor). I could remove it and use a different approach to it.

When you say this, do you mean just Rubrik3's basic lot with the transit enabled area? Or do you also mean to include his elevated plaza as well? Doing that with his elevated plaza... Hmm I'd have to redo the bases of my Twin Towers then. Where part the base is at the plaza level and another part is at street level so like two different lobby levels(like the real one and unlike the version of the lobby I made).

While I'm still working on my WTC buildings slowly but surely, I started back on this one from a few pages ago. My Downtown Branhattan Skyline is pretty "empty" of the buildings I would like to be there so I remembered the purpose of this one-

The very top isn't done(the pyramid as well as the base of the pyramid). But this is basically it now. I decided to just not make it W2W. It tightly fits a 2x2 lot.

[Gn_leugim 853]

at lower zoom the top looks a bit wird imo :\ but once zoomed in, all model looks nice

[mattb325 28,880]

Regarding the Branhattan building, very nice - the grey texture on the flat areas of your pyramid is tiliing quite noticeably: maybe use one of the maxis ashphalt textures that is floating around or increase the size of the UVW map.

[weixc812 509]

I'm so glad to hear 3 WTC will be modified...

So I'm gonna replace it as soon you release it!

[ComeTogetherOverMe 4]

Sgt, are you going to remake the twin towers for the bases? I think your comp will literally melt!

Off-topic question: Was the map of Branhattan downloaded from somewhere, or did you make the map yourself?

[Toothless Stitch 2,901]

Wait, Vista? Why not Mariott?

  Edited October 10, 2012 by skyscraper241  

[Sgt Pepper 864]

Thought I should post an update before I cram for a American Government Exam in about half an hour. XD

Gn_leugim, I hope this new shot is an improvement.

Mattb325- Thank you! I fixed the UVW Mapping a bit on it, I don't think the tiling is noticeable anymore. How is it now in your view?

weixc812- Lovely urban area! Oh did you re-lot most of those buildings yourself? Really nice work. And of course thank you.

Geometry- Well my laptop shouldn't melt. However I'm not rendering the entire complex as one model. I may, when all this is done do something similar to what Rubrik3 did where he assembled props together in the Lot Editor. But I'm not sure. And for Branhattan, it's just an accurate New York Map I downloaded and renamed the region.

skyscraper241- I explained that earlier. My rendition of the Hotel isn't going for extreme accuracy. The original hotel was actually built as a Vista before Marriott acquired the hotel a few years after. For the sake of some differentiation I thought of, I'm leaving the name as a Vista.

Okay so I'm basically done with the modelling I believe. What do ya'll think? As soon as this is done I'll resume 4 WTC and then 3 WTC.

[Gn_leugim 853]

LIke it but.. " why u not" make euro style? XD

[sten1700 102]

OMFG!! Amazing !! Please keep doing New York buildings!!

[weixc812 509]

weixc812- Lovely urban area! Oh did you re-lot most of those buildings yourself? Really nice work. And of course thank you.

Yeah, I do that relotting myself one by one.

Of course it took me a lot of time, but I think it worth the price

  Edited October 12, 2012 by weixc812  

[Sgt Pepper 864]

Gn_leugim- I don't know actually. I guess it's because I prefer international styled buildings over ornate buildings like this(well BATing Wise ). Hmm makes me wonder about looking up some Euro International styled structures...

sten1700- Thanks friend! I'm not too sure about more buildings like this, detailing a building like this is a whole other deal compared to the buildings I'm used to doing.

weixc812- You're lotting work certainly pays off.

I'm very very surprised with how long this took to export. It took like 4-6 hours while I was away at the fair last night, compared to my less detailed international styled buildings that take 8,9,10,11,12 hours to render. :| I wonder if it's because the roof is just a pyramid without a lot of roof junk on there...

Well here's some in game shots, does it look well in game? It doesn't look underscaled does it?

And for those curious of my downtown Branhattan Skyline so far...he's a very zoomed out shot of the overall area.

You'll probably notice that big blue international styled building behind 40 Wall Street, that's my Chase Manhattan Plaza. I'm still wanting to get that fountain/pond done for the final lot to release later on. Of course, the area isn't even done either. There's more buildings I want to place, and a lot of buildings to replace where there's a lot of smaller Maxis/custom buildings are.

By the way, the lot to this Branhattan Building I made is 2x2 and meant to grow on corners. The lot is very bare, but that's because it tightly fits the 2x2 lot and doesn't leave room for props.

Since PIM X still confuses me, I just used Maxis's Plugin-Manager to get in game, here's the stats, for anyone to review and let me know if something needs to be fixed-

And it's called Bankers Trust Funds now.

[Gn_leugim 853]

And it's called Bankers Trust Funds now.

can the lend me money, as lost funds to start my business?

about the stats, I dont have a comparison for it. only trust in PIM-X now ^^

[T Wrecks 10,209]

Are we talking CO§§§ here? If so, the job number for CO§§ should be higher than that for CO§§§ - the idea is that when the building dilapidates from high wealth to medium wealth, it will offer more jobs.

For 1,204 CO§§§ jobs, I'd say pollution 6/6/4 (air/water/garbage; especially garbage is rarely higher than 4-6 with Maxis buildings), consumption around 40-70 power and 700-900 water (1,743 water is really a bit excessive), worth/bulldoze cost (these two are always identical in case of Maxis buildings!) around 1,100, and building value (=tax income) should be 8,000-10,000. Construction time is always worth/bulldoze cost divided by 10. Flammability is too low, I'd use 35. Pollution radii look a tad small as well, 5/6/0/0 might be more appropriate.

This is the way I'd do it. Basically, there's a wide "OK zone" and only the garbage, building value, water consumption, and flammability values were really out of whack. PIM-X will yield somewhat different values, but that's the problem when you don't have any precise formulas you can work with. As long as you're not too far away from Maxis values (said "OK zone" around the Maxis values, which are also rather unsystematic in part), many different numbers work just fine.

[Sgt Pepper 864]

I modified the stats based on your suggestion T Wrecks, it should be correct this time.

Hmm, what is a general Maxis "OK zone" I can work with for future reference? I feel like, thinking back I had some of my stats messed up now on previous BATs/ I don't really know specific formulas or anything to determine stats when I do it myself. I just go on assumptions based on what the Plug In Manager tells me at first and then edit that.

I had no idea what Building Value and Worth really determined though. I always kept that kind of low...I thought that the the numbers each time was a messed up exaggeration on the Plug In Managers part.

  Edited October 12, 2012 by Sgt Pepper  

[T Wrecks 10,209]

Well, as I said, building value is tax income, building worth AFAIK is only used to calculate the financial damage after buildings have been destroyed in some kind of disaster.

The thing about stats is that there are no formulas. Maxis themselves apparently didn't use any, and the stats are often illogical. For example, a skyscraper will often generate the same amount of garbage as a single-family home. Totally nuts, but that's the way it is.

There is no smooth and logical progression, either. Maxis has divided each category (RCI) into stages, and for each stage there are some building families that will generally share similar stats. However, the steps from one building family to another don't folllow any apparent logic; sometimes some stats will actually increase from one family to the next, but decrease between that next family and the one after it, only to increase again... it's really messed up, just like occupant numbers themselves. Same category and wealth, bigger building, fewer occupants/jobs - that's not a rarity.

It beats me why they didn't think of a simple formula based on occupant number - would have saved us (and them!) the entire modding chores, and it would have been much more logical.

So if you think of the default stats, don't think of a clear and simple curve. Think of a graph that zigzags its way up in unforeseeable patterns. This leaves a lot of room for interpretation.

I keep using my little spreadsheet that by now contains several thousand entries, but it's all based on something you could do yourself: Plop your BAT next to comparable Maxis buildings, decide upon an occupant number, and then use SC4Tool's RCI building database to check out the stats of those buildings that come closest to your BATs. Also check out the next bigger and smaller buildings to get an idea of how much stats change inbetween different building sizes. Then jot down some stats that will fit in, and mod your BAT accordingly. That's really it.