Roller Coaster Tycoon 3

[LightWarriorK 4]

Date:1/4/2005 3:11:09 PM
Author:Mexicanboy13r

Well I got the game and it works Great!! I really like it! Hmm.. maybe that is why i am not updating my CJ anyways its a really cool game!  I may post Pictures!

quote>

If you do, I may as well!  We could turn this thread into some sorta group of PJs and recruit more players!  I've got 2 interesting parks that are mostly on hold for the next few days until Patch#2 comes out, but yeah, I haven't played SC4 since this game came out.

[LightWarriorK 4]

The second patch came out on Tuesday evening! Many problems have been fixed (though a mite few remain) and RCT3 is now to the point of how it should have been released. Anyone who was turned off this game because of the bugs.... you should probably reconsider It's still a computer hog, even more than SC4, so beware, but it's well worth it. I keep an eye on the official forums there, so if anyone has questions or wants an example of what the game can do, just ask.

[The_Dalai_Llama 15]

Could  this rekindle my interest for RCT3?  I hope it does.

[SimMaster 17]

Date: 2/12/2005 3:16:42 PM
Author: The_Dalai_Llama
Couls this rekindle my interest for RCT3?  I hope it does.

Hmm..looks interesting. I've been waiting for something like this.

[EAGCE 2]

I got RCT3.  Didn't really like it.  Way too different from the original for me.  Doesn't have the same feel.  It's like a totally differnet game.

[JohnB 66]

I really want to try that game. I played RCT 1 and 2 demos before and they were fun, but the new game is amazing. I have seen videos of RCT3 and its the most realistic Roller Coaster experience I have ever seen. It looks so realistic, you feel like you are riding the coaster for real.

Also I'm glad they finally have realistic people. I was getting tired of all those little boys running around. It was strange. I click to ask if the kid likes the park and it says the kid's name is Janet. I'm sorry but there is no way that I'm gonna believe that little boy's name is Janet.

In RCT3 they have adults and kids and very realistic models at that. The people look almost as real as The Sims 2. Also now they finally have females that look like females. The people also have realistic emotions finally. The game is now fully 3d, and looks a lot more realistic then the original Roller Coaster Tycoon. I am definetely going to try that game someday.

Yay 300th post!!!!!

[Futuropolis 0]

Ahhh yes.. waterparks are finally in the game.  That's a feature I've always wanted in RCT and it's finally here.  No more fake pools   Seems like an excellent add-on to the game.  From the screenshots of the pool, they seem very realistic to me.  I haven't played RCT3 yet though.. it's been sitting on my shelf because I just don't have enough time to actually play it.

[clindhartsen 5]

Well, it looks like another game I'll have to pick up soon enough! Looks good though I will have to get used to the 3-D aspect and different controls etc. since I haven't played RCT really since 1 though I do have RCT2 sitting around......

Anyway, looks like another reason I need a new GFXcard ...........

[LightWarriorK 4]

The official Atari Forums have a lot of info for those just starting up the game, and have compiled all the info regarding Soaked! so far.  I recommend looking through the exchange forum to get some ideas of what the game is capable of (despite some remaining bugs).

The 3D graphics and new interface do take some getting used to... I don't know why the interface was changed, there was nothing wrong with it, but it's highly addictive and is only limited by the speed of your computer.  Coincidently, this game is even more of a resource hog than SC4, which is saying a lot.  It's still fun, though, and recommended. Here's some pics for those who want a gander....

First, a small park I've finished terraforming, ready to start building, Haven Isle:


Next, one of the Spooky scenarios in a midnight fog:


Now, a shot from one of the Atari Community's exchangers, ytivarg, from his Gotham City park, see more here, http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=446017


Now, a shot from Simbolism and Milkdud's Wooden Stake at Frightmare (an incredible park, out of my league, worth a look!)  See more here, http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=439317



And finally, recent pic from another Simbolism park (there's much more where this came from), Avalanche at Inspiration Park.  See more here, http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=436563



I hope those who haven't visit the forums...http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=315, they really are great.  If you're teetering on whether to get the game, it'll help, but be sure to make sure your computer can handle it, too!

Enjoy!

[YodaMan 0]

I just bought this game off of eBay yesterday (through a verified seller - feedback 99.7%), and hoo boy I cannot wait to dig into it. Seeing those screenies you posted, gets me excited to see what I can do. The fog and the night lights, and the trees and scenery... *drools*

Never bought RCT2, but instead relied on RCT1 and Corckscrew follies... I remember the first scenario from the first game - my routine was to get a sucessful park going, and after I'd hoarded my funds I demolished everything and redid the terrain and everything! New mountains, new walkways, I had three coasters (the red, white and gold) interlocking all over the place... crazy. RCT is, IMO, one of the classic games of our time.

 

So... is my copy here yet? I'll see if any screenies of my old parks are worth posting - if anyone's interested.

[The boy formerly known as Evil Muzz 27]

Hmmmm. Why doesn't water show up in game? I see it does for you. But I can't get it to. I've had this game since christmas and barely played because I can't get water, it's not as fun without the full effects. Any one know why this is happening?

[LightWarriorK 4]

Just call me free tech support

Truth is that water not being shown is due to your video card.  Try updating to the latest drivers, but if that doesn't work then your video card does not allow for a certain effect that the water needs.

 

I don't know that much about it, but the official forums (see my last post for the link) has a lot of info on it.  There's about a thread a week about missing water.  Good luck!

[momo 1]

Date: 1/13/2005 5:00:36 PM
Author: LightWarriorK
The second patch came out on Tuesday evening! Many problems have been fixed (though a mite few remain) and RCT3 is now to the point of how it should have been released. Anyone who was turned off this game because of the bugs.... you should probably reconsider It's still a computer hog, even more than SC4, so beware, but it's well worth it. I keep an eye on the official forums there, so if anyone has questions or wants an example of what the game can do, just ask.

quote>

On the official forums, people still say there are many bugs in the game and the game has some serious and annoying playability issues.

People are saying that the group AI is a show stopper that groups spend 90% of the time in the park eating, drinking, and going to the bathroom rather than riding rides. Further food places and toilets get frequently jammed up because of this. Groups don't use transport rides together which makes transport rides basically useless. There have been NO improvements to the pathing system in RCT3 over RCT2 but when you add the new group AI into it it amplifies the problem and it becomes a bigger mess in RCT3 than it was in RCT2. Mechanics and other staff get lost all the time and go out of their patrol zones. You can't build fences right next to paths like you could in RCT2! Creating and connecting paths in RCT3 is the most time consuming frustrating thing ever but was easy in RCT2. Switching between camera views is tedious. Menus don't have fully functional scrollbars that enable you to quickly scroll through lists of items.

Graphics glitches and clipping is a common occurance EVERYWHERE in the game as the game has poor collision detection EVERYWHERE. The physics of the roller coasters is no where near as realistic as in RCT2. You can't even build tunnels but in RCT2 (and even RCT1) you could. In RCT3, peeps enter queue lines but don't get on rides unlike in RCT2. You can't synchronize shop prices like you could in RCT2 or charge for on-ride photos like you could in RCT2. You can rotate but can't flip prebuilt roller coasters like you could in RCT2. This can be a serious problem when placing prebuilt coasters as I use the rotate AND flip feature all the time when placing prebuilt coasters in RCT2.

In RCT2 benches and garbage bins actually served a purpose and were extensively used but in RCT3 they are not used and are useless. Sound effects and music in RCT2 was much more realistic and fun than in RCT3. You can't even change the colors of certain things like you could in RCT2. Problems with VIPS, inconsistent and changing ride stats, inconsistent monetary stats, groups getting stuck in photos indefinitely, and so on and so on and so on...

I don't think I would recommend this game to anyone who is a hardcore fan of RCT1 and RCT2. At least not until the bugs and playability issues have been worked out.

[LightWarriorK 4]

I've been waiting for someone to revive this thread.

 

Date: 6/29/2005 5:01:13 PM Author: momo

Date: 1/13/2005 5:00:36 PM Author: LightWarriorK The second patch came out on Tuesday evening!  Many problems have been fixed (though a mite few remain) and RCT3 is now to the point of how it should have been released.  Anyone who was turned off this game because of the bugs.... you should probably reconsider  It's still a computer hog, even more than SC4, so beware, but it's well worth it. I keep an eye on the official forums there, so if anyone has questions or wants an example of what the game can do, just ask.

quote> On the official forums, people still say there are many bugs in the game and the game has some serious and annoying playability issues. People are saying that the group AI is a show stopper that groups spend 90% of the time in the park eating, drinking, and going to the bathroom rather than riding rides. Further food places and toilets get frequently jammed up because of this. Groups don't use transport rides together which makes transport rides basically useless. There have been NO improvements to the pathing system in RCT3 over RCT2 but when you add the new group AI into it it amplifies the problem and it becomes a bigger mess in RCT3 than it was in RCT2. Mechanics and other staff get lost all the time and go out of their patrol zones. You can't build fences right next to paths like you could in RCT2! Creating and connecting paths in RCT3 is the most time consuming frustrating thing ever but was easy in RCT2. Switching between camera views is tedious. Menus don't have fully functional scrollbars that enable you to quickly scroll through lists of items. Graphics glitches and clipping is a common occurance EVERYWHERE in the game as the game has poor collision detection EVERYWHERE. The physics of the roller coasters is no where near as realistic as in RCT2. You can't even build tunnels but in RCT2 (and even RCT1) you could. In RCT3, peeps enter queue lines but don't get on rides unlike in RCT2. You can't synchronize shop prices like you could in RCT2 or charge for on-ride photos like you could in RCT2. You can rotate but can't flip prebuilt roller coasters like you could in RCT2. This can be a serious problem when placing prebuilt coasters as I use the rotate AND flip feature all the time when placing prebuilt coasters in RCT2. In RCT2 benches and garbage bins actually served a purpose and were extensively used but in RCT3 they are not used and are useless. Sound effects and music in RCT2 was much more realistic and fun than in RCT3. You can't even change the colors of certain things like you could in RCT2. Problems with VIPS, inconsistent and changing ride stats, inconsistent monetary stats, groups getting stuck in photos indefinitely, and so on and so on and so on... I don't think I would recommend this game to anyone who is a hardcore fan of RCT1 and RCT2. At least not until the bugs and playability issues have been worked out.

quote>

 

 

Actually if you've been on the official threads, you may have seen me... same name there.   I'm there every day, and was a beta tester for the expansion pack. 

 

I don't know how long it's been since you've been there, but you must have completely missed the expansion, Soaked!, which has recently come out.  Yes, it's still a MASSIVE CPU hog, but pretty much everything else in your post has been fixed.  Here's a quick list (ok, maybe not so little):

 

On the official forums, people still say there are many bugs in the game and the game has some serious and annoying playability issues. - There will always be these people, especially when dealing with computers.

 

People are saying that the group AI is a show stopper that groups spend 90% of the time in the park eating, drinking, and going to the bathroom rather than riding rides. - Mostly fixed in Patch#2, even more so in Soaked!.  I haven't heard this complaint in a WHILE.

 

Groups don't use transport rides together which makes transport rides basically useless.  - Fixed in Soaked!  I extensively beta tested this personaly.

 

There have been NO improvements to the pathing system in RCT3 over RCT2 but when you add the new group AI into it it amplifies the problem and it becomes a bigger mess in RCT3 than it was in RCT2. - Whatever problems there were was fixed in Patch#2 and Soaked.  Though if you still make a maze of paths and don't provide maps, they'll still get lost.  Keep it simple for the peeps.

 

Mechanics and other staff get lost all the time and go out of their patrol zones. - Fixed in Patch#2

 

You can't build fences right next to paths like you could in RCT2! - In Soaked! we pushed for this HARD and now have a cheat (M Brookes) that allows this.

 

Creating and connecting paths in RCT3 is the most time consuming frustrating thing ever but was easy in RCT2. - Takes getting used to, but once you get the terrain requirements down, it gets easier.

 

Switching between camera views is tedious. - Yes, I agree.... Keyboard shortcuts are still mainly missing.

 

Menus don't have fully functional scrollbars that enable you to quickly scroll through lists of items. - With Soaked! we get to use a scroll wheel in GUI menus.

 

Graphics glitches and clipping is a common occurance EVERYWHERE in the game as the game has poor collision detection EVERYWHERE. - It's part of the nature of the game that peeps will go through each other and certain things.  Most all graphical glitches have been fixed, and those that remain are few or are caused by the user's computer.

 

The physics of the roller coasters is no where near as realistic as in RCT2. - This is actually the first time I've heard this argument.  Who did you hear this from?

 

You can't even build tunnels but in RCT2 (and even RCT1) you could. - Fixed in Soaked!

 

In RCT3, peeps enter queue lines but don't get on rides unlike in RCT2. - Fixed in Patch#2

 

You can't synchronize shop prices like you could in RCT2 or charge for on-ride photos like you could in RCT2. - Syncronozation is fixed, on-ride photos are still nada.

 

You can rotate but can't flip prebuilt roller coasters like you could in RCT2. This can be a serious problem when placing prebuilt coasters as I use the rotate AND flip feature all the time when placing prebuilt coasters in RCT2. - Still can't flip, but honestly this problems isn't brought up much.

 

In RCT2 benches and garbage bins actually served a purpose and were extensively used but in RCT3 they are not used and are useless. - Fixed in Patch#2, for the most part.  Benches are still kind of neglected, but they are used some.

 

Sound effects and music in RCT2 was much more realistic and fun than in RCT3. - Adding in 3-D support for sound takes something away, yes.  But being able to add ANY MP3 to the game (including the music from RCT1&2) means that the music is whatever you make of it.

 

Problems with VIPS, inconsistent and changing ride stats, inconsistent monetary stats, groups getting stuck in photos indefinitely, and so on and so on and so on...  All fixed, or are too insignificant to care about.

 

Wow, it must have been a LONG time since you've been on the forums.  Sorry for debunking nearly everything you said, but everything I said is true.  Take a good look at the forums again.  Is it perfect?  No.  Does it need to be?  No.  It's still a lot of fun.

[momo 1]

Actually if you've been on the official threads, you may have seen me... same name there. I'm there every day, and was a beta tester for the expansion pack.

quote>

I don't visit the threads really and don't have the game. But I've spent some time reading about the game.

I don't know how long it's been since you've been there, but you must have completely missed the expansion, Soaked!, which has recently come out. Yes, it's still a MASSIVE CPU hog, but pretty much everything else in your post has been fixed.

quote>

I've heard of Soaked but I'm not talking about expansion packs. I'm talking about fixing bugs and possibly improving playability in the original game. Bug Fixes = New Feature = Expansion Pack is not the idea.

'On the official forums, people still say there are many bugs in the game and the game has some serious and annoying playability issues.' - There will always be these people, especially when dealing with computers.

quote>

It's not just on the official forums, it's everywhere.

'People are saying that the group AI is a show stopper that groups spend 90% of the time in the park eating, drinking, and going to the bathroom rather than riding rides.' - Mostly fixed in Patch#2, even more so in Soaked!. I haven't heard this complaint in a WHILE.

quote>

What do you mean by even more so in Soaked? Is this fixed in the original game or not?

'Groups don't use transport rides together which makes transport rides basically useless.' - Fixed in Soaked! I extensively beta tested this personaly.

quote>

Great, IF you have the expansion pack. Again, the idea is NOT Bug Fixes = New Feature = Expansion Pack. Further, if you read a post a made in this thread quite a while ago, one of the things I mentioned was that transport rides should not just be considered rides. Peeps should also consider transport rides as a means to get from point A to point B. This feature is not in RCT2 but it is something that I would have really liked in the game.

'There have been NO improvements to the pathing system in RCT3 over RCT2 but when you add the new group AI into it it amplifies the problem and it becomes a bigger mess in RCT3 than it was in RCT2.' - Whatever problems there were was fixed in Patch#2 and Soaked. Though if you still make a maze of paths and don't provide maps, they'll still get lost. Keep it simple for the peeps.

quote>

Are you aware of how pathing works in RCT1 and RCT2? All paths must flow in a direct direction to the exit and all paths from any given ride must flow in a direct direction to every other ride. Peeps (even those with maps) are stupid and will not walk on double and triple wide paths properly and most importantly, will not go out of their way even a couple of feet to find something (even if all the paths in the entire park are single wide paths.) For more information about what I'm talking about please see

http://www.angelfire.com/retro/fossil/RCT2/PathingSystems.html

Both RCT1 and RCT2 have the problem of park exit black holes. These are sections of path, that because of path design (which is sometimes necessitated by the layout of rides in the park) in which peeps that are looking for the park exit get stuck in indefinitely. In RCT1 there were also what I call local black holes in which if you built a small loop around something (like a garden or something like that) then some peeps entering the loop would get stuck in it indefinitely or for long periods of time. RCT2 does not have the problem with local black holes but it does have the problem with park exit black holes. Anyone who has played RCT2 for any length of time knows exactly what I'm talking about. Now, can you tell me if pathing in RCT3 has problems with these local black holes or park exit black holes?

'Mechanics and other staff get lost all the time and go out of their patrol zones.' - Fixed in Patch#2

quote>

So mechanics will not go out of their patrol zones anymore? But are they smart enough not to use the queue line or ride exit of Ride A as a path to get to Ride B? This is an annoying problem in RCT1 and RCT2.

'You can't build fences right next to paths like you could in RCT2!' - In Soaked! we pushed for this HARD and now have a cheat (M Brookes) that allows this.

quote>

Why wasn't this pushed for in the original game? Is this so hard to do?

'Creating and connecting paths in RCT3 is the most time consuming frustrating thing ever but was easy in RCT2.' - Takes getting used to, but once you get the terrain requirements down, it gets easier.

quote>

Fair enough.

'Menus don't have fully functional scrollbars that enable you to quickly scroll through lists of items.' - With Soaked! we get to use a scroll wheel in GUI menus.

quote>

I'm going to rehash this again. The idea is NOT Bug Fixes = New Feature = Expansion Pack. This should have been addressed in the original game.

'Graphics glitches and clipping is a common occurance EVERYWHERE in the game as the game has poor collision detection EVERYWHERE.' - It's part of the nature of the game that peeps will go through each other and certain things. Most all graphical glitches have been fixed, and those that remain are few or are caused by the user's computer.

quote>

So trains no longer go through scenery, trains no longer go through the support beams of other rides, peeps are rendered completely on rides with legs, arms, and heads, and rides are rendered completely with peeps on them with seats and stuff?

'The physics of the roller coasters is no where near as realistic as in RCT2.' - This is actually the first time I've heard this argument. Who did you hear this from?

quote>

I read this in a review of the game from an experienced RCT1 and RCT2 player:

http://www.dealtime.com/xPR-__RollerCoaster_Tycoon_3~RD-160333729412

'You can't even build tunnels but in RCT2 (and even RCT1) you could.' - Fixed in Soaked!

quote>

I wouldn't consider this a bug but an essential missing feature of the game. If you can only do it in Soaked then that's OK.

'In RCT3, peeps enter queue lines but don't get on rides unlike in RCT2.' - Fixed in Patch#2

quote>

OK.

'You can't synchronize shop prices like you could in RCT2 or charge for on-ride photos like you could in RCT2.' - Syncronozation is fixed, on-ride photos are still nada.

quote>

I just read about that one too.

'You can rotate but can't flip prebuilt roller coasters like you could in RCT2. This can be a serious problem when placing prebuilt coasters as I use the rotate AND flip feature all the time when placing prebuilt coasters in RCT2.' - Still can't flip, but honestly this problems isn't brought up much.

quote>

Try placing Nitro (if it is available in RCT3) in a park and you'll know what I mean.

'In RCT2 benches and garbage bins actually served a purpose and were extensively used but in RCT3 they are not used and are useless.' - Fixed in Patch#2, for the most part. Benches are still kind of neglected, but they are used some.

quote>

Are they going to address the remaining issue with benches in the original game?

'Sound effects and music in RCT2 was much more realistic and fun than in RCT3.' - Adding in 3-D support for sound takes something away, yes. But being able to add ANY MP3 to the game (including the music from RCT1&2) means that the music is whatever you make of it.

quote>

OK.

'Problems with VIPS, inconsistent and changing ride stats, inconsistent monetary stats, groups getting stuck in photos indefinitely, and so on and so on and so on...' All fixed, or are too insignificant to care about.

quote>

Which is it, are they fixed or are they insignificant? Do groups still get stuck in photos indefinitely?

Wow, it must have been a LONG time since you've been on the forums. Sorry for debunking nearly everything you said, but everything I said is true. Take a good look at the forums again. Is it perfect? No. Does it need to be? No. It's still a lot of fun.

quote>

No it doesn't need to be perfect. I can live with a couple of glitches here and there. But the idea is NOT Bug Fixes = New Feature = Expansion Pack. The lack of bugs in a game is NOT a feature of a game that should be added in an expansion pack. When Civilization 3 came out it was filled with bugs. But after several patches they worked them out. But based on the responses to some of my points, it seems acceptable to RCT3 fans that some bugs should just be left in the original game and only fixed in an expansion pack. This is not acceptable. If they had done that with Civilization 3 the community would have been outraged.

But one thing that bothers me in RCT2 is the pathing system. This should have been addressed in RCT3 but since no-one can vouch for it I have nothing to go on. I'm not talking about making complex paths, I'm talking about being able to design your park the way you want it without having to critically analyze every single path in the park and be constrained by the pathing system so much. This is especially true when it comes to the placement of rides--sometimes it is very difficult if not impossible to make a park exactly the way you want because of the severe limitations of the pathing system. For example, in RCT1 and 2 you cannot build a ride that has an off-path entrance in which peeps need to walk in the direction of the park entrance/exit on a dead end path to get to the queue line. Again, I'll refer you to this page...

http://www.angelfire.com/retro/fossil/RCT2/PathingSystems.html

Also, can you tell me if there is a limit on the number of Do Not Enter signs you can place in a park in RCT3? In RCT2 there is a limit and it is extremely annoying. In RCT2 they are classified as banners and there is a banner limit.

[Compromise 1]

The best thing I found with RCT3 is the graphics and I was supriced it ran on my computer without a proplem. Perhaps the expansion pack will make me play it once again.

[LightWarriorK 4]

Actually if you've been on the official threads, you may have seen me... same name there.  I'm there every day, and was a beta tester for the expansion pack.

I don't visit the threads really and don't have the game. But I've spent some time reading about the game.

quote>

Sorry, but no matter how much you read about it, it's not the same as playing it.  Bringing up issues that you've only experienced through hearsay and not by playing yourself really doesn't count.  Try playing it first, then see how things are.

 

I don't know how long it's been since you've been there, but you must have completely missed the expansion, Soaked!, which has recently come out.  Yes, it's still a MASSIVE CPU hog, but pretty much everything else in your post has been fixed.

I've heard of Soaked but I'm not talking about expansion packs. I'm talking about fixing bugs and possibly improving playability in the original game. Bug Fixes = New Feature = Expansion Pack is not the idea.

quote>

 

A simple fact of the gaming industy, one that we've experienced hard with SC4:  Games come as-is, if they don't want to put out a free-patch, they don't have to, and if they happen to fix issues in an expansion then that's too bad for those who don't want to purchase it.

 

That being said, a patch has been requested for those who do not wish to purchase Soaked, but whether it will happen remains to be seen.  The fact is that Soaked changes so much with the features that Frontier had to re-write a lot of the code, and while it fixed many of the problems, it may be hard to separate the Expansion Features from Original Game Fixes.

 

'On the official forums, people still say there are many bugs in the game and the game has some serious and annoying playability issues.' - There will always be these people, especially when dealing with computers.

It's not just on the official forums, it's everywhere.

quote>

 

The mention of the official forums was your quote, and yes, it's true everywhere:  Those with less powerfull computers will ALWAYS complain that a game won't run as well for them.

 

'People are saying that the group AI is a show stopper that groups spend 90% of the time in the park eating, drinking, and going to the bathroom rather than riding rides.' - Mostly fixed in Patch#2, even more so in Soaked!.  I haven't heard this complaint in a WHILE.

What do you mean by even more so in Soaked? Is this fixed in the original game or not?

quote>

 

Patch #2 fixes the problem, yes, to an extent.  The amount that peeps would ride on rides was improved, but it was determined that this still wasn't enough and was increased for Soaked.  As far as eating, drinking, and going to the bathroom, they still do this when they need to.  This is a MUCH more complex AI than RCT1&2, and the peeps do a lot more than go straight from on ride to the next.  I've seen groups wait at a point and watch a ride for a good 5 minutes before deciding what to do, I've seen them gather at a ride exit and wait for a member that decided to ride without them, and I've seen them change their mind about where to go and wander around for a while.  It really can't be compared to the AI in the earlier games, and anyone who tries will be disappointed.

 

'Groups don't use transport rides together which makes transport rides basically useless.'  - Fixed in Soaked!  I extensively beta tested this personaly.

Great, IF you have the expansion pack. Again, the idea is NOT Bug Fixes = New Feature = Expansion Pack. Further, if you read a post a made in this thread quite a while ago, one of the things I mentioned was that transport rides should not just be considered rides. Peeps should also consider transport rides as a means to get from point A to point B. This feature is not in RCT2 but it is something that I would have really liked in the game.

quote>

 

Yes, IF you have the expansion.  Sorry.  Now, IF they decide to put a patch out for those who don't want Soaked, this fix will be included, but otherwise, you're stuck.

 

'There have been NO improvements to the pathing system in RCT3 over RCT2 but when you add the new group AI into it it amplifies the problem and it becomes a bigger mess in RCT3 than it was in RCT2.' - Whatever problems there were was fixed in Patch#2 and Soaked.  Though if you still make a maze of paths and don't provide maps, they'll still get lost.  Keep it simple for the peeps.

Are you aware of how pathing works in RCT1 and RCT2? All paths must flow in a direct direction to the exit and all paths from any given ride must flow in a direct direction to every other ride. Peeps (even those with maps) are stupid and will not walk on double and triple wide paths properly and most importantly, will not go out of their way even a couple of feet to find something (even if all the paths in the entire park are single wide paths.) For more information about what I'm talking about please see

http://www.angelfire.com/retro/fossil/RCT2/PathingSystems.html

Both RCT1 and RCT2 have the problem of park exit black holes. These are sections of path, that because of path design (which is sometimes necessitated by the layout of rides in the park) in which peeps that are looking for the park exit get stuck in indefinitely. In RCT1 there were also what I call local black holes in which if you built a small loop around something (like a garden or something like that) then some peeps entering the loop would get stuck in it indefinitely or for long periods of time. RCT2 does not have the problem with local black holes but it does have the problem with park exit black holes. Anyone who has played RCT2 for any length of time knows exactly what I'm talking about. Now, can you tell me if pathing in RCT3 has problems with these local black holes or park exit black holes? 

quote>

 

The AI is MUCH smarted in RCT3, and I personally have never seen a Black Hole that wasn't made by someone who didn't know how to make paths work.  As far as the pathing, as long as it's not TOO complex, and as long as they are provided maps, peeps will find their way out easy enough.  Also, double, triple, and even wider paths are almost a MUST, due to the grouping.  Yes, peeps will make full use of them, but it's more than that.  Each group requires a meeting place where they can stop and rest, eat, decide, take pictures, etc.  This spot equals a path square, and no other group can wait there while a group occupies it.  We found, quite early, that without wide avenues, plazas, food courts, and meeting places, the peeps will wander for much longer without doing anything but look for an open spot to meet.  One person coined the phrase, WAEV: Waiting At Extreme Velocity, where a group will look for a spot to rest, but if none is available they wil charge across the park at full speed until they find one.  So yes, wide paths are a MUST.

 

'Mechanics and other staff get lost all the time and go out of their patrol zones.' - Fixed in Patch#2

So mechanics will not go out of their patrol zones anymore? But are they smart enough not to use the queue line or ride exit of Ride A as a path to get to Ride B? This is an annoying problem in RCT1 and RCT2.

quote>

 

I don't understant that last part.  How could a queue line of Ride A lead to Ride B?  They won't get lost (no more than peeps do), and they stay in their zones if that's what you mean, but otherwise, it's best in RCT3 to NOT use patrol zones.  Staff members can get bored and quit, so hiring only when your current mechanics can't keep up with the ride maintenance or park cleanliness is best.  It does mean waiting a little bit longer for busted rides to open back up, but that's one thing we've learned to deal with.  Again, comparing it to how it worked in RCT1&2 would be a mistake.

 

'You can't build fences right next to paths like you could in RCT2!' - In Soaked! we pushed for this HARD and now have a cheat (M Brookes) that allows this.

Why wasn't this pushed for in the original game? Is this so hard to do?

quote>

 

Apparently, yes.  We aren't privy to the details.  Apparently there is also a reason why it had to be a cheat and not a full feature.

 

'Menus don't have fully functional scrollbars that enable you to quickly scroll through lists of items.' - With Soaked! we get to use a scroll wheel in GUI menus.

I'm going to rehash this again. The idea is NOT Bug Fixes = New Feature = Expansion Pack. This should have been addressed in the original game.

quote>

 

And this is another thing which will be in a patch IF they decide to release one.

 

'Graphics glitches and clipping is a common occurance EVERYWHERE in the game as the game has poor collision detection EVERYWHERE.' - It's part of the nature of the game that peeps will go through each other and certain things.  Most all graphical glitches have been fixed, and those that remain are few or are caused by the user's computer.

So trains no longer go through scenery, trains no longer go through the support beams of other rides, peeps are rendered completely on rides with legs, arms, and heads, and rides are rendered completely with peeps on them with seats and stuff?

quote>

 

Yes, as far as we've seen, the trains don't go though support beams any longer... as far as I know this was fixed in Patch #2.  Due to the way the game opperates, no to the rest of it.  Peeps on rides, especially, if the peep is sinking into the seat, it is a difference in Video Cards among users, and can be corrected with Enabling/Disabling the Aggressive Z-Bias Option.

 

'The physics of the roller coasters is no where near as realistic as in RCT2.' - This is actually the first time I've heard this argument.  Who did you hear this from?

I read this in a review of the game from an experienced RCT1 and RCT2 player:

http://www.dealtime.com/xPR-__RollerCoaster_Tycoon_3~RD-160333729412

quote>

 

I'm assuming you're talking about this: Then there's the physics engine. The coasters just don't seem to behave properly any more. I built a replica of one of my RCT2 coasters, piece for piece. And in RCT2, it worked great, with a nice high excitement rating, and smooth ride. In RCT3, the train wouldn't even make it up the second hill. It's like the physics has underestimated the force of gravity, and all the coasters need huge huge drops to get them going. Putting in a kiddy coaster with a 15 foot drop is just going to get you a 5mph ride.

 

The physics between RCT1&2 and RCT3 ARE different.  Patch#1 fixed the difference by adding a Low Friction option to the Coaster Operation Panel to compensate.  For the most part, the physics are MORE realistic than in RCT1&2, and building coasters (not importing) in 3 is no problem.  If this reviewer only imported the rides, I'm not surprised he didn't like it.  Although, since this was written even before the patches came out, almost all of the review is outdated.

 

'You can rotate but can't flip prebuilt roller coasters like you could in RCT2. This can be a serious problem when placing prebuilt coasters as I use the rotate AND flip feature all the time when placing prebuilt coasters in RCT2.' - Still can't flip, but honestly this problems isn't brought up much.

Try placing Nitro (if it is available in RCT3) in a park and you'll know what I mean.

quote>

 

I know what you mean, it's still not that big an issue.  Pre-built coasters are fine for the beginning, but after a point I, and most people that are on the forums or who I've talked to, start building their own.  It's a valid complaint, but I don't see it ever changing.

 

'In RCT2 benches and garbage bins actually served a purpose and were extensively used but in RCT3 they are not used and are useless.' - Fixed in Patch#2, for the most part.  Benches are still kind of neglected, but they are used some.

Are they going to address the remaining issue with benches in the original game?

quote>

 

Maybe in a patch, IF it comes out.

 

'Problems with VIPS, inconsistent and changing ride stats, inconsistent monetary stats, groups getting stuck in photos indefinitely, and so on and so on and so on...'  All fixed, or are too insignificant to care about.

Which is it, are they fixed or are they insignificant? Do groups still get stuck in photos indefinitely?

quote>

 

VIP's are the hardest part of the game.  Though some pathfinding issues were found and fixed, most all complaints on it being to hard to satisfy their needs have been addressed as Play it more, though a few people have come up with some interesting strategies in each scenario.

 

Changing Ride Stats were fixed in one of the patches, I think #1, as was the Inconsistant Monetary Stats and Groups getting stuck for photos.

 

My comment on bugs being insignificant was in response to and so on and so on and so on.  If it's too insignificant to mention here, obviously it's too insignificant for them to fix.

 

Also, can you tell me if there is a limit on the number of Do Not Enter signs you can place in a park in RCT3? In RCT2 there is a limit and it is extremely annoying. In RCT2 they are classified as banners and there is a banner limit.

quote>

 

The only time I ever hit that banner limit in RCT1!&2 was while herding peeps to murder them.  As you can't kill them in RCT3, I've never seen it there.  But I haven't heard of anyone hitting it, and to quote the developers, There are no hard limits coded into the game as to what you can build.  The only limit is what your comuter can handle and what you can dream up.

 

As far as the community goes, I can only speak from what I've heard, and the dissenting view of I don't want to get Soaked, I want you to fix the original game is an extreme minority.  There are so many features that we've been asking for that have nothing to do with waterparks, and aren't merely bug fixes, that I don't think many people there won't be getting Soaked.  Besides, with the Patches, the game is VERY playable, even with the remaining bugs.

 

You'll just have to wait and see if a Non-Soaked Patch is released... though I KNOW they're already working on a Soaked Patch.   However, since you don't have the game itself anyways, I hope it won't bother you too much.

[Compromise 1]

There seem to be a lot of long posts in this thread. You certainley have a lot to say.

[LightWarriorK 4]

True, but quoting keeps this thread in order.  As issues were resolved, I've been dropping them.   And yeah, there's a lot to say... I think as RCT3 goes, I may be the resident expert here at Simtropolis.  For the past year I have barely touched SC4, and keep coming here because it's a great community.

 

I can answer pretty much everything, and the stuff I can't I can find out pretty quick. (Except those that are being guarded by Atari and Frontier, of course)

 

BTW, second expansion comes out in November!

[Compromise 1]

Well I finalley got the expansion pack and so far it looks quite good.

[momo 1]

Sorry, but no matter how much you read about it, it's not the same as playing it. Bringing up issues that you've only experienced through hearsay and not by playing yourself really doesn't count. Try playing it first, then see how things are.

quote>

This is a catch-22. On one hand there is no substitute for playing the actual game. On the other hand how does one go about trying a game first? I highly doubt the patches apply to the demo and I know of no store that will allow you to return an opened software package **unless it is defective** As far as the known issues I have brought up, you have agreed that many of them have NOT been fixed in the original game and further you also agree that some of them have NOT even been fixed in the Soaked expansion pack.

A simple fact of the gaming industy, one that we've experienced hard with SC4: Games come as-is, if they don't want to put out a free-patch, they don't have to, and if they happen to fix issues in an expansion then that's too bad for those who don't want to purchase it.

quote>

As long as everyone is happy to buy the expansion pack then there is no problem. But this game is only 7 or 8 months old yet there is an expansion pack that happens to fix some known issues in the game but not in the original. I don't expect a company to support a game forever but I would expect that they would support fixing known bugs in the original game within about a year of the release date--ESPECIALLY given this game was not released properly--that is if Atari/Fontier wants to save some RCT fans. After that if they want to release expansion packs that fix other bugs that surfaced later then that's fine.

...The fact is that Soaked changes so much with the features that Frontier had to re-write a lot of the code, and while it fixed many of the problems, it may be hard to separate the Expansion Features from Original Game Fixes.

quote>

These companies have enough experience. They know exactly what they are doing. I can only imagine if RCT3 was released as a console game like this. This is just an excuse they have given you.

The mention of the official forums was your quote, and yes, it's true everywhere: Those with less powerfull computers will ALWAYS complain that a game won't run as well for them.

quote>

It is understandable that the 3D graphics and AI consume a lot of resources. But I'm talking about issues in the game (that are reproducible on machines that meet the specs if you will.)

The AI is MUCH smarted in RCT3, and I personally have never seen a Black Hole that wasn't made by someone who didn't know how to make paths work. As far as the pathing, as long as it's not TOO complex, and as long as they are provided maps, peeps will find their way out easy enough. Also, double, triple, and even wider paths are almost a MUST, due to the grouping. Yes, peeps will make full use of them, but it's more than that. Each group requires a meeting place where they can stop and rest, eat, decide, take pictures, etc. This spot equals a path square, and no other group can wait there while a group occupies it. We found, quite early, that without wide avenues, plazas, food courts, and meeting places, the peeps will wander for much longer without doing anything but look for an open spot to meet. One person coined the phrase, WAEV: Waiting At Extreme Velocity, where a group will look for a spot to rest, but if none is available they wil charge across the park at full speed until they find one. So yes, wide paths are a MUST.

quote>

In RCT1 you could not have wide paths at all. The peeps would sometimes just circle around and walk back and forth. In RCT2 you can have wide paths but peeps will sometimes circle a few times or just turn around and walk in the opposite direction. In RCT2, if you only designed your paths using a strict grid then you'll never experience peeps getting stuck in sections of path. But realistic paths wind and curve, aren't strictly parallel to each other and meet in different places--sooner or later you will experience a black hole. I experienced it with the very first park I ever built in RCT1. Then in the last park I finished in RCT2 (about two weeks ago) I experienced it again. In that case I had to build a path to cut through a small coaster. Again, if you design your paths to be realistic instead of strict grids sooner or later it will happen. Why do you think there are long path tunnels under the mountain in the Six Flags Magic Mountain scenario in RCT2?

I don't understant that last part. How could a queue line of Ride A lead to Ride B? They won't get lost (no more than peeps do), and they stay in their zones if that's what you mean, but otherwise, it's best in RCT3 to NOT use patrol zones. Staff members can get bored and quit, so hiring only when your current mechanics can't keep up with the ride maintenance or park cleanliness is best. It does mean waiting a little bit longer for busted rides to open back up, but that's one thing we've learned to deal with. Again, comparing it to how it worked in RCT1&2 would be a mistake.

quote>

'How could a queue line of Ride A lead to Ride B?' It can't but mechanics in RCT2 will try to use them anyway to get to another ride to inspect it or fix it. What happens is that they can get stuck in the queue line or exit path of Ride A while looking for Ride B. Consequently, Ride B will not get fixed until you manually move the stuck mechanic next to Ride B and he answers the radio. Do mechanics do this in RCT3? So since staff members can get bored and quit they should not be assigned patrol zones in RCT3?

Apparently, yes. We aren't privy to the details. Apparently there is also a reason why it had to be a cheat and not a full feature.

quote>

It had to be a cheat because cheats are usually not supported. If a cheat doesn't work then it is not considered a bug.

I read this in a review of the game from an experienced RCT1 and RCT2 player:

http://www.dealtime.com/xPR-__RollerCoaster_Tycoon_3~RD-160333729412

I'm assuming you're talking about this: Then there's the physics engine. The coasters just don't seem to behave properly any more. I built a replica of one of my RCT2 coasters, piece for piece. And in RCT2, it worked great, with a nice high excitement rating, and smooth ride. In RCT3, the train wouldn't even make it up the second hill. It's like the physics has underestimated the force of gravity, and all the coasters need huge huge drops to get them going. Putting in a kiddy coaster with a 15 foot drop is just going to get you a 5mph ride.

The physics between RCT1&2 and RCT3 ARE different. Patch#1 fixed the difference by adding a Low Friction option to the Coaster Operation Panel to compensate. For the most part, the physics are MORE realistic than in RCT1&2, and building coasters (not importing) in 3 is no problem. If this reviewer only imported the rides, I'm not surprised he didn't like it. Although, since this was written even before the patches came out, almost all of the review is outdated.

quote>

This aside, I think the reviewer's comments about the confused peep syndrome is perfectly valid. I know exactly what he is talking about in RCT1 and RCT2 because I have experienced it in those games and it is something that I hate. This goes back to my other point about black holes. Since you've never experienced it yourself you can't know what he is talking about.

And what about the spastic peep? Another great bug is the spastic peep. I've seen this a lot in playing the game. For some reason, they'll walk off the path and into the track of a rollercoaster. Then they'll get stuck and do this weird spastic break-dancing thing in the track, walking upside down and sideways, with graphics glitches pulling arms and legs off. The coaster seems to have the sense to stop working when this happens, but you need to pick up each peep by hand and move them out of the track before you can re-start the coaster.

The only time I ever hit that banner limit in RCT1!&2 was while herding peeps to murder them. As you can't kill them in RCT3, I've never seen it there. But I haven't heard of anyone hitting it, and to quote the developers, There are no hard limits coded into the game as to what you can build. The only limit is what your comuter can handle and what you can dream up.

quote>

I also read this about RCT3 (that they decided not to put limits on certain things but have things constrained by performance.) However, it doesn't mean that the game does not have hard coded limits on things like the number of staff you can hire, the number of banner (a.k.a in RCT3 Do Not Enter or whatever props they are) etc... but maybe the limits are so high that they cannot be realistically reached OR maybe there are no limits on things that would be constrained by performance but there are limits on things that are not strictly tightly tied to performance (like the number of Do Not Enter signs or whatever you can place in a park.)

The banner limit in RCT2 is 65. If you use No Entry banners for ride exits, especially those belonging to coasters (which are typically long) and those that empty away from the park exit (i.e. a path exit in which a peep walks further away from the park exit when exiting the ride), then you will likely hit the banner limit on a large park very easily (at least way before you hit the 256 ride/shop limit in RCT2.)

As far as the community goes, I can only speak from what I've heard, and the dissenting view of I don't want to get Soaked, I want you to fix the original game is an extreme minority. There are so many features that we've been asking for that have nothing to do with waterparks, and aren't merely bug fixes, that I don't think many people there won't be getting Soaked. Besides, with the Patches, the game is VERY playable, even with the remaining bugs.

quote>

The extreme minority as you say probably do not go around and post on the official forums so they are probably not even known. Why should they? They have either been put off by the game and have not bought it, or have bought the game and have put it on the shelf and will not play it again. But you are probably correct, most of everyone who hopes to play the game will buy Soaked because not only does it add cool features it ALSO fixes some known issues that are NOT fixed in the original game.

BTW, second expansion comes out in November!

quote>

Maybe they won't need to make a patch for Soaked now because the bugs in Soaked will be fixed in Wild (or whatever the second expansion pack will be called.) I think I will wait four or five years down the road when they offer a gold edition or something like that with the expansion packs (how many ever it may include.)

If this game wasn't released so incredibly buggy and Atari/Frontier cares to properly patch the original game given that it is only 7 or 8 months old, then maybe some people wouldn't have been turned off by it. By your own admission, the community by large has absolutely no issues with having to buy an expansion pack to get all the bug and issues fixes even though the game isn't that old and these things have probably been known about now for a very long time.

The problem is is that not everyone wants to buy all the expansion packs for every game they own or immediately buy every expansion pack as soon as it comes out. In fact, there are only three games I have ever bought expansion packs for (SimCity 4, RCT1, and Civilization 3.) With other games, like AOE2, RCT2, The Sims, The Sims 2 etc... I either had or have no intention of ever buying any expansion packs for them and it has nothing to do with not liking those games.

[LightWarriorK 4]

Good Discussion!   Though, I don't have the time today to go into each detail... I can make two basic points, though.

1) It is pretty impossible to compare RCT1&2 to RCT3, bugs or not.  It just runs completely differently.  From what I've seen the die-hard RCT1&2 (the modding community of RCT2, especially) can have a hard time making the switch.  There are even some, especially one I'll call JOE, who have tried to be the same force for RCT3 that they were for RCT2.  Unfortunatly it is JOE's own ego, his obsessive desire for RCT3 modding (which will NEVER happen before they are done with the expansions, IMHO), and his inability to let things GO that basically turn ever thread he makes into a flamefest.  The RCT3 community has moved past RCT1&2.

 

2) I don't know what it is, but yes, we've come to accept one cold hard fact: To get the game running near-perfectly, you must patch the game and buy Soaked.  I'm not sure if it's for the best, because it DOES encourage Publisher Greed and Developer Sloth, but I'll tell you one thing, that I think is apparent from my posts:  I won't let a spattering few remaining bugs ruin my fun.  Afterall, it's just a game.  Even without Soaked, you CAN play the game just fine if you meet the specs, there are just some persistant bugs and gameplay tweaks that really needed to be made added with Soaked.  I'm sticking with that opinion.

 

Momo, I really do urge you to play the game (have you tried the demo, at least?)  Even with just the patches, you'll see that the issues that remain do NOT stop the average user from having fun.  Remember that only like ~1% of the people who purchase a game participate on the forums (that's an assumption: I'd say there's no more than 500 active members on the official forums, and I'm sure they've passed 50,000 units sold) and once the game is playable I'm sure even the most diehard fan will easily overlook them.  So if ~99% of the people who purchase the game may be completely unaware of many issues we have, or have learned to deal with them.

 

This had been much longer than I wanted, so I'll wrap up with an example:

 

I have been playing RCT since its conception in 1999.  I beat all of the scenarios in RCT1 and it's expansions, all the scenarios in RCT2 and it's expansions, and made several MASSIVE custom parks in RCT2, but until I went to the forums one day to look up the RCT3 demo way back in August 04, I had never been online for RCT.  So imagine my surprise when I see 1) all of the modding and custom content that had been done for RCT2, and 2) how many things were actually bugs that I had just accepted (like you have stated here).  That is why I don't see all of the issues being resolved (because as long as the game RUNS, they won't be a priority for Atari/Frontier), and that is why I can live with a few little issues.  Will I do my best to get them fixed?  Yes.  Is is the end of the world if they aren't? NO.

 

P.S.  Rumor has it that there's not only going to be a Soaked patch, a non-Soaked patch, and Wild (which will not need Soaked to run), but that there could be up to 2 more expansions being released if there is enough support for them.

 

P.P.S.  Compromise, I'm glad you're enjoying it.  Take a look at the Vendor for the Crocodile Balloons in the 4th Soaked scenario.  That's me!  40 of the 500 beta testers were awarded park jobs, so whenever you see a real name that's someone who actually exists.  Let me know if you have any questions about it, too, and take a look at the official forums if you want to see some cool stuff done.

[Compromise 1]

No wonder you know such much about it, you helped make it. I will have a look for you in RCT3 and I might make a visit to the offishial forums.

[LightWarriorK 4]

Hehe, well, it was just the beta test for Soaked!, but yeah, those of us who were added as vendors (and also put in the in-game credits) know pretty much everything that non-developers are allowed to know about it... the beta test itself was an incredible learning experience and brought my knowledge about the inner workings of the game about as high as it can go.

The part I'm fuzziest on is the up-and-coming custom structures.  I don't have the time to get into learning all that, so I'm just sitting back and enjoying what they do.

[momo 1]

Thanks LWK for all the info about the game. No I haven't tried the demo yet. I check a couple of months ago on www.download.com and a lot of people were saying the demo didn't work on their machines. I have dialup so it would take me over 10 hours to download and I wasn't keen on downloading that much and not have it work. But I see the ratings on www.download.com are good now so I'll probably eventually try it.

While briefly browsing the Atari forums today I came across this juicy post:

I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for a patch. They never came out with the needed 3rd RCT3 patch. And now they've already announced the 2nd expansion.

I think the only way your gonna get a patch is to pay for it when the expansion comes out, just like Soaked! With Soaked! they supposedly fixed a bunch of things in the main RCT3 game itself, yet where is the freestanding patch for those who did not buy Soaked! I'll tell you where. Nowhere! It doesn't exist.

So I think a patch is doubtful from these people. Pretty low. But that's their track record so far, and it seems to be following that trend so far. I think if you hear about the next expansion before you hear about a patch...well, you draw your own conclusions.

Pretty cheesy and very lame.

quote>

http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=483644

[bevanl 6]

I quite like the graphics on the new RollerCoaster 3 (I might buy it one day) I still play the original though.

[LightWarriorK 4]

You're welcome momo.  Once the price comes down, then, I definately recommend it.  You may be waiting a while though, as long as they keep pumping out expansions.  The demo DOES have issues... it's basically a beta, and VERY unfinished.

There's also many continuing debates as to whether a patch will be coming.  I'm actually split down the middle.  On one hand, the fixes are being made at the same time as the improvements, so the developers haven't been taking the extra time to separate the two.  As they need to eat as well, and since all of the game stopping bugs have been taken care of, this side of the fence is content to wait for Wild! to finish the fixes.

 

The other side is adamant that a patch is needed before Wild!  There definatetly ARE a spatter of new bugs that have shown up with Soaked!, most notably that the Ghost Ride is busted and the car won't go up the hill.  Also, there seems to be a problem with some of the ATI graphic cards...  I'm all in favor of a patch, but I also see that with Frontier's timeline, this could be tough.

 

As I said, I'm split... mostly, since I'm going to be buying the expansions anyways it doesn't matter whether the fixes come in patch form or expansion form.  The only difference is when I'll get them.

 

bevanl, I DO recommend it, and you'll be able to jump right in with RCT3 if you're familliar with RCT1, just don't expect it to be the same game... they're impossible to compare with each other.

[Montu 0]

Hey,

 

Glad to see someone interested in RCT

 

For some good parks, I would suggest you to visit New Elements, the best RCT website out there, www.nedesigns.com

or RCT 2 unoffical website which has a huge fanbase, www.rct2.com

[safemining1 0]

hey you all.
today Aspyr stared on RCT3 for mac it should come out by novbemer.

[TheCrybKeeper 301]

I have RCT1 and 2, not 3 and I can say one thing for sure after reading all these pages and comments; I probably will not ever buy it. I agree with Momo, Offering patches for  their errors, while having to buy an expansion? that is dishonesty, IMO. Unfair marketing practice.