momo

Welcome to the resistance. Edit: A quick check on www.rollercoastertycoon.com reveals that there is only one patch for RCT3. I couldn't find any patches for Soaked so the patch matrix looks like this: RCT3 Original: a partial patch released Jan 2005, the full patch is the Soaked expansion pack RCT3 Soaked: the patch for this expansion pack will be the Wild expansion pack RCT3 Wild: the patch for this upcoming expansion pack will be the next expansion pack, and so on with the last expansion pack in the series having no patch

Date: 7/29/2005 5:38:58 PM Author: K_m_H ze evil empire doesn't have coverage in Thailand. [:0]quote> Yah but they probably have special agents over there.

7/10 my avatar can beat up yours!

8/10 OK but I can't make out what it is.

Thanks LWK for all the info about the game. No I haven't tried the demo yet. I check a couple of months ago on www.download.com and a lot of people were saying the demo didn't work on their machines. I have dialup so it would take me over 10 hours to download and I wasn't keen on downloading that much and not have it work. But I see the ratings on www.download.com are good now so I'll probably eventually try it. While briefly browsing the Atari forums today I came across this juicy post: I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for a patch. They never came out with the needed 3rd RCT3 patch. And now they've already announced the 2nd expansion. I think the only way your gonna get a patch is to pay for it when the expansion comes out, just like Soaked! With Soaked! they supposedly fixed a bunch of things in the main RCT3 game itself, yet where is the freestanding patch for those who did not buy Soaked! I'll tell you where. Nowhere! It doesn't exist. So I think a patch is doubtful from these people. Pretty low. But that's their track record so far, and it seems to be following that trend so far. I think if you hear about the next expansion before you hear about a patch...well, you draw your own conclusions. Pretty cheesy and very lame.quote> http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=483644

Sorry, but no matter how much you read about it, it's not the same as playing it. Bringing up issues that you've only experienced through hearsay and not by playing yourself really doesn't count. Try playing it first, then see how things are.quote> This is a catch-22. On one hand there is no substitute for playing the actual game. On the other hand how does one go about trying a game first? I highly doubt the patches apply to the demo and I know of no store that will allow you to return an opened software package **unless it is defective** As far as the known issues I have brought up, you have agreed that many of them have NOT been fixed in the original game and further you also agree that some of them have NOT even been fixed in the Soaked expansion pack. A simple fact of the gaming industy, one that we've experienced hard with SC4: Games come as-is, if they don't want to put out a free-patch, they don't have to, and if they happen to fix issues in an expansion then that's too bad for those who don't want to purchase it.quote> As long as everyone is happy to buy the expansion pack then there is no problem. But this game is only 7 or 8 months old yet there is an expansion pack that happens to fix some known issues in the game but not in the original. I don't expect a company to support a game forever but I would expect that they would support fixing known bugs in the original game within about a year of the release date--ESPECIALLY given this game was not released properly--that is if Atari/Fontier wants to save some RCT fans. After that if they want to release expansion packs that fix other bugs that surfaced later then that's fine. ...The fact is that Soaked changes so much with the features that Frontier had to re-write a lot of the code, and while it fixed many of the problems, it may be hard to separate the Expansion Features from Original Game Fixes.quote> These companies have enough experience. They know exactly what they are doing. I can only imagine if RCT3 was released as a console game like this. This is just an excuse they have given you. The mention of the official forums was your quote, and yes, it's true everywhere: Those with less powerfull computers will ALWAYS complain that a game won't run as well for them.quote> It is understandable that the 3D graphics and AI consume a lot of resources. But I'm talking about issues in the game (that are reproducible on machines that meet the specs if you will.) The AI is MUCH smarted in RCT3, and I personally have never seen a Black Hole that wasn't made by someone who didn't know how to make paths work. As far as the pathing, as long as it's not TOO complex, and as long as they are provided maps, peeps will find their way out easy enough. Also, double, triple, and even wider paths are almost a MUST, due to the grouping. Yes, peeps will make full use of them, but it's more than that. Each group requires a meeting place where they can stop and rest, eat, decide, take pictures, etc. This spot equals a path square, and no other group can wait there while a group occupies it. We found, quite early, that without wide avenues, plazas, food courts, and meeting places, the peeps will wander for much longer without doing anything but look for an open spot to meet. One person coined the phrase, WAEV: Waiting At Extreme Velocity, where a group will look for a spot to rest, but if none is available they wil charge across the park at full speed until they find one. So yes, wide paths are a MUST.quote> In RCT1 you could not have wide paths at all. The peeps would sometimes just circle around and walk back and forth. In RCT2 you can have wide paths but peeps will sometimes circle a few times or just turn around and walk in the opposite direction. In RCT2, if you only designed your paths using a strict grid then you'll never experience peeps getting stuck in sections of path. But realistic paths wind and curve, aren't strictly parallel to each other and meet in different places--sooner or later you will experience a black hole. I experienced it with the very first park I ever built in RCT1. Then in the last park I finished in RCT2 (about two weeks ago) I experienced it again. In that case I had to build a path to cut through a small coaster. Again, if you design your paths to be realistic instead of strict grids sooner or later it will happen. Why do you think there are long path tunnels under the mountain in the Six Flags Magic Mountain scenario in RCT2? I don't understant that last part. How could a queue line of Ride A lead to Ride B? They won't get lost (no more than peeps do), and they stay in their zones if that's what you mean, but otherwise, it's best in RCT3 to NOT use patrol zones. Staff members can get bored and quit, so hiring only when your current mechanics can't keep up with the ride maintenance or park cleanliness is best. It does mean waiting a little bit longer for busted rides to open back up, but that's one thing we've learned to deal with. Again, comparing it to how it worked in RCT1&2 would be a mistake.quote> 'How could a queue line of Ride A lead to Ride B?' It can't but mechanics in RCT2 will try to use them anyway to get to another ride to inspect it or fix it. What happens is that they can get stuck in the queue line or exit path of Ride A while looking for Ride B. Consequently, Ride B will not get fixed until you manually move the stuck mechanic next to Ride B and he answers the radio. Do mechanics do this in RCT3? So since staff members can get bored and quit they should not be assigned patrol zones in RCT3? Apparently, yes. We aren't privy to the details. Apparently there is also a reason why it had to be a cheat and not a full feature.quote> It had to be a cheat because cheats are usually not supported. If a cheat doesn't work then it is not considered a bug. I read this in a review of the game from an experienced RCT1 and RCT2 player: http://www.dealtime.com/xPR-__RollerCoaster_Tycoon_3~RD-160333729412 I'm assuming you're talking about this: Then there's the physics engine. The coasters just don't seem to behave properly any more. I built a replica of one of my RCT2 coasters, piece for piece. And in RCT2, it worked great, with a nice high excitement rating, and smooth ride. In RCT3, the train wouldn't even make it up the second hill. It's like the physics has underestimated the force of gravity, and all the coasters need huge huge drops to get them going. Putting in a kiddy coaster with a 15 foot drop is just going to get you a 5mph ride. The physics between RCT1&2 and RCT3 ARE different. Patch#1 fixed the difference by adding a Low Friction option to the Coaster Operation Panel to compensate. For the most part, the physics are MORE realistic than in RCT1&2, and building coasters (not importing) in 3 is no problem. If this reviewer only imported the rides, I'm not surprised he didn't like it. Although, since this was written even before the patches came out, almost all of the review is outdated.quote> This aside, I think the reviewer's comments about the confused peep syndrome is perfectly valid. I know exactly what he is talking about in RCT1 and RCT2 because I have experienced it in those games and it is something that I hate. This goes back to my other point about black holes. Since you've never experienced it yourself you can't know what he is talking about. And what about the spastic peep? Another great bug is the spastic peep. I've seen this a lot in playing the game. For some reason, they'll walk off the path and into the track of a rollercoaster. Then they'll get stuck and do this weird spastic break-dancing thing in the track, walking upside down and sideways, with graphics glitches pulling arms and legs off. The coaster seems to have the sense to stop working when this happens, but you need to pick up each peep by hand and move them out of the track before you can re-start the coaster. The only time I ever hit that banner limit in RCT1!&2 was while herding peeps to murder them. As you can't kill them in RCT3, I've never seen it there. But I haven't heard of anyone hitting it, and to quote the developers, There are no hard limits coded into the game as to what you can build. The only limit is what your comuter can handle and what you can dream up.quote> I also read this about RCT3 (that they decided not to put limits on certain things but have things constrained by performance.) However, it doesn't mean that the game does not have hard coded limits on things like the number of staff you can hire, the number of banner (a.k.a in RCT3 Do Not Enter or whatever props they are) etc... but maybe the limits are so high that they cannot be realistically reached OR maybe there are no limits on things that would be constrained by performance but there are limits on things that are not strictly tightly tied to performance (like the number of Do Not Enter signs or whatever you can place in a park.) The banner limit in RCT2 is 65. If you use No Entry banners for ride exits, especially those belonging to coasters (which are typically long) and those that empty away from the park exit (i.e. a path exit in which a peep walks further away from the park exit when exiting the ride), then you will likely hit the banner limit on a large park very easily (at least way before you hit the 256 ride/shop limit in RCT2.) As far as the community goes, I can only speak from what I've heard, and the dissenting view of I don't want to get Soaked, I want you to fix the original game is an extreme minority. There are so many features that we've been asking for that have nothing to do with waterparks, and aren't merely bug fixes, that I don't think many people there won't be getting Soaked. Besides, with the Patches, the game is VERY playable, even with the remaining bugs.quote> The extreme minority as you say probably do not go around and post on the official forums so they are probably not even known. Why should they? They have either been put off by the game and have not bought it, or have bought the game and have put it on the shelf and will not play it again. But you are probably correct, most of everyone who hopes to play the game will buy Soaked because not only does it add cool features it ALSO fixes some known issues that are NOT fixed in the original game. BTW, second expansion comes out in November!quote> Maybe they won't need to make a patch for Soaked now because the bugs in Soaked will be fixed in Wild (or whatever the second expansion pack will be called.) I think I will wait four or five years down the road when they offer a gold edition or something like that with the expansion packs (how many ever it may include.) If this game wasn't released so incredibly buggy and Atari/Frontier cares to properly patch the original game given that it is only 7 or 8 months old, then maybe some people wouldn't have been turned off by it. By your own admission, the community by large has absolutely no issues with having to buy an expansion pack to get all the bug and issues fixes even though the game isn't that old and these things have probably been known about now for a very long time. The problem is is that not everyone wants to buy all the expansion packs for every game they own or immediately buy every expansion pack as soon as it comes out. In fact, there are only three games I have ever bought expansion packs for (SimCity 4, RCT1, and Civilization 3.) With other games, like AOE2, RCT2, The Sims, The Sims 2 etc... I either had or have no intention of ever buying any expansion packs for them and it has nothing to do with not liking those games.

Actually if you've been on the official threads, you may have seen me... same name there. I'm there every day, and was a beta tester for the expansion pack.quote> I don't visit the threads really and don't have the game. But I've spent some time reading about the game. I don't know how long it's been since you've been there, but you must have completely missed the expansion, Soaked!, which has recently come out. Yes, it's still a MASSIVE CPU hog, but pretty much everything else in your post has been fixed.quote> I've heard of Soaked but I'm not talking about expansion packs. I'm talking about fixing bugs and possibly improving playability in the original game. Bug Fixes = New Feature = Expansion Pack is not the idea. 'On the official forums, people still say there are many bugs in the game and the game has some serious and annoying playability issues.' - There will always be these people, especially when dealing with computers.quote> It's not just on the official forums, it's everywhere. 'People are saying that the group AI is a show stopper that groups spend 90% of the time in the park eating, drinking, and going to the bathroom rather than riding rides.' - Mostly fixed in Patch#2, even more so in Soaked!. I haven't heard this complaint in a WHILE.quote> What do you mean by even more so in Soaked? Is this fixed in the original game or not? 'Groups don't use transport rides together which makes transport rides basically useless.' - Fixed in Soaked! I extensively beta tested this personaly.quote> Great, IF you have the expansion pack. Again, the idea is NOT Bug Fixes = New Feature = Expansion Pack. Further, if you read a post a made in this thread quite a while ago, one of the things I mentioned was that transport rides should not just be considered rides. Peeps should also consider transport rides as a means to get from point A to point B. This feature is not in RCT2 but it is something that I would have really liked in the game. 'There have been NO improvements to the pathing system in RCT3 over RCT2 but when you add the new group AI into it it amplifies the problem and it becomes a bigger mess in RCT3 than it was in RCT2.' - Whatever problems there were was fixed in Patch#2 and Soaked. Though if you still make a maze of paths and don't provide maps, they'll still get lost. Keep it simple for the peeps.quote> Are you aware of how pathing works in RCT1 and RCT2? All paths must flow in a direct direction to the exit and all paths from any given ride must flow in a direct direction to every other ride. Peeps (even those with maps) are stupid and will not walk on double and triple wide paths properly and most importantly, will not go out of their way even a couple of feet to find something (even if all the paths in the entire park are single wide paths.) For more information about what I'm talking about please see http://www.angelfire.com/retro/fossil/RCT2/PathingSystems.html Both RCT1 and RCT2 have the problem of park exit black holes. These are sections of path, that because of path design (which is sometimes necessitated by the layout of rides in the park) in which peeps that are looking for the park exit get stuck in indefinitely. In RCT1 there were also what I call local black holes in which if you built a small loop around something (like a garden or something like that) then some peeps entering the loop would get stuck in it indefinitely or for long periods of time. RCT2 does not have the problem with local black holes but it does have the problem with park exit black holes. Anyone who has played RCT2 for any length of time knows exactly what I'm talking about. Now, can you tell me if pathing in RCT3 has problems with these local black holes or park exit black holes? 'Mechanics and other staff get lost all the time and go out of their patrol zones.' - Fixed in Patch#2quote> So mechanics will not go out of their patrol zones anymore? But are they smart enough not to use the queue line or ride exit of Ride A as a path to get to Ride B? This is an annoying problem in RCT1 and RCT2. 'You can't build fences right next to paths like you could in RCT2!' - In Soaked! we pushed for this HARD and now have a cheat (M Brookes) that allows this.quote> Why wasn't this pushed for in the original game? Is this so hard to do? 'Creating and connecting paths in RCT3 is the most time consuming frustrating thing ever but was easy in RCT2.' - Takes getting used to, but once you get the terrain requirements down, it gets easier.quote> Fair enough. 'Menus don't have fully functional scrollbars that enable you to quickly scroll through lists of items.' - With Soaked! we get to use a scroll wheel in GUI menus.quote> I'm going to rehash this again. The idea is NOT Bug Fixes = New Feature = Expansion Pack. This should have been addressed in the original game. 'Graphics glitches and clipping is a common occurance EVERYWHERE in the game as the game has poor collision detection EVERYWHERE.' - It's part of the nature of the game that peeps will go through each other and certain things. Most all graphical glitches have been fixed, and those that remain are few or are caused by the user's computer.quote> So trains no longer go through scenery, trains no longer go through the support beams of other rides, peeps are rendered completely on rides with legs, arms, and heads, and rides are rendered completely with peeps on them with seats and stuff? 'The physics of the roller coasters is no where near as realistic as in RCT2.' - This is actually the first time I've heard this argument. Who did you hear this from?quote> I read this in a review of the game from an experienced RCT1 and RCT2 player: http://www.dealtime.com/xPR-__RollerCoaster_Tycoon_3~RD-160333729412 'You can't even build tunnels but in RCT2 (and even RCT1) you could.' - Fixed in Soaked!quote> I wouldn't consider this a bug but an essential missing feature of the game. If you can only do it in Soaked then that's OK. 'In RCT3, peeps enter queue lines but don't get on rides unlike in RCT2.' - Fixed in Patch#2quote> OK. 'You can't synchronize shop prices like you could in RCT2 or charge for on-ride photos like you could in RCT2.' - Syncronozation is fixed, on-ride photos are still nada.quote> I just read about that one too. 'You can rotate but can't flip prebuilt roller coasters like you could in RCT2. This can be a serious problem when placing prebuilt coasters as I use the rotate AND flip feature all the time when placing prebuilt coasters in RCT2.' - Still can't flip, but honestly this problems isn't brought up much.quote> Try placing Nitro (if it is available in RCT3) in a park and you'll know what I mean. 'In RCT2 benches and garbage bins actually served a purpose and were extensively used but in RCT3 they are not used and are useless.' - Fixed in Patch#2, for the most part. Benches are still kind of neglected, but they are used some.quote> Are they going to address the remaining issue with benches in the original game? 'Sound effects and music in RCT2 was much more realistic and fun than in RCT3.' - Adding in 3-D support for sound takes something away, yes. But being able to add ANY MP3 to the game (including the music from RCT1&2) means that the music is whatever you make of it.quote> OK. 'Problems with VIPS, inconsistent and changing ride stats, inconsistent monetary stats, groups getting stuck in photos indefinitely, and so on and so on and so on...' All fixed, or are too insignificant to care about.quote> Which is it, are they fixed or are they insignificant? Do groups still get stuck in photos indefinitely? Wow, it must have been a LONG time since you've been on the forums. Sorry for debunking nearly everything you said, but everything I said is true. Take a good look at the forums again. Is it perfect? No. Does it need to be? No. It's still a lot of fun.quote> No it doesn't need to be perfect. I can live with a couple of glitches here and there. But the idea is NOT Bug Fixes = New Feature = Expansion Pack. The lack of bugs in a game is NOT a feature of a game that should be added in an expansion pack. When Civilization 3 came out it was filled with bugs. But after several patches they worked them out. But based on the responses to some of my points, it seems acceptable to RCT3 fans that some bugs should just be left in the original game and only fixed in an expansion pack. This is not acceptable. If they had done that with Civilization 3 the community would have been outraged. But one thing that bothers me in RCT2 is the pathing system. This should have been addressed in RCT3 but since no-one can vouch for it I have nothing to go on. I'm not talking about making complex paths, I'm talking about being able to design your park the way you want it without having to critically analyze every single path in the park and be constrained by the pathing system so much. This is especially true when it comes to the placement of rides--sometimes it is very difficult if not impossible to make a park exactly the way you want because of the severe limitations of the pathing system. For example, in RCT1 and 2 you cannot build a ride that has an off-path entrance in which peeps need to walk in the direction of the park entrance/exit on a dead end path to get to the queue line. Again, I'll refer you to this page... http://www.angelfire.com/retro/fossil/RCT2/PathingSystems.html Also, can you tell me if there is a limit on the number of Do Not Enter signs you can place in a park in RCT3? In RCT2 there is a limit and it is extremely annoying. In RCT2 they are classified as banners and there is a banner limit.

Date: 1/13/2005 5:00:36 PM Author: LightWarriorK The second patch came out on Tuesday evening! Many problems have been fixed (though a mite few remain) and RCT3 is now to the point of how it should have been released. Anyone who was turned off this game because of the bugs.... you should probably reconsider It's still a computer hog, even more than SC4, so beware, but it's well worth it. I keep an eye on the official forums there, so if anyone has questions or wants an example of what the game can do, just ask.quote> On the official forums, people still say there are many bugs in the game and the game has some serious and annoying playability issues. People are saying that the group AI is a show stopper that groups spend 90% of the time in the park eating, drinking, and going to the bathroom rather than riding rides. Further food places and toilets get frequently jammed up because of this. Groups don't use transport rides together which makes transport rides basically useless. There have been NO improvements to the pathing system in RCT3 over RCT2 but when you add the new group AI into it it amplifies the problem and it becomes a bigger mess in RCT3 than it was in RCT2. Mechanics and other staff get lost all the time and go out of their patrol zones. You can't build fences right next to paths like you could in RCT2! Creating and connecting paths in RCT3 is the most time consuming frustrating thing ever but was easy in RCT2. Switching between camera views is tedious. Menus don't have fully functional scrollbars that enable you to quickly scroll through lists of items. Graphics glitches and clipping is a common occurance EVERYWHERE in the game as the game has poor collision detection EVERYWHERE. The physics of the roller coasters is no where near as realistic as in RCT2. You can't even build tunnels but in RCT2 (and even RCT1) you could. In RCT3, peeps enter queue lines but don't get on rides unlike in RCT2. You can't synchronize shop prices like you could in RCT2 or charge for on-ride photos like you could in RCT2. You can rotate but can't flip prebuilt roller coasters like you could in RCT2. This can be a serious problem when placing prebuilt coasters as I use the rotate AND flip feature all the time when placing prebuilt coasters in RCT2. In RCT2 benches and garbage bins actually served a purpose and were extensively used but in RCT3 they are not used and are useless. Sound effects and music in RCT2 was much more realistic and fun than in RCT3. You can't even change the colors of certain things like you could in RCT2. Problems with VIPS, inconsistent and changing ride stats, inconsistent monetary stats, groups getting stuck in photos indefinitely, and so on and so on and so on... I don't think I would recommend this game to anyone who is a hardcore fan of RCT1 and RCT2. At least not until the bugs and playability issues have been worked out.

Date: 6/23/2005 9:08:05 PM Author: AJHAINC Date: 6/23/2005 8:59:36 PM Author: momo Most recent worst game ever, Rise of Nations.quote> How can you say Rise of Nations is a bad game?!!?! I loved it! The game was a great success. What are your reasons for not liking it? Have you ever played it?quote> The map in Rise of Nations is incredibly tiny, there are stupid meaningless caps on everything, modern warfare is poorly done like in Empire Earth (like controlling aircraft for example), and you can't even build city walls (which is something I really like and most ancient cities had city walls) which you can in Age of Empires. The game is a cheap knock off of Age of Empires II, Civilization 3, and Europa Universalis II (and probably even Empire Earth.) They simply took some ideas out of these games but failed to capture the grandeur or essence of them (well Empire Earth falls into the same category with me--I don't like that game either.) I must say the idea of the cap is something I don't like in Age of Empires but at least it's only on the population. In Rise of Nations it's on EVERYTHING. These things should be controlled by economics not some arbitrary concept of a cap. For example, attrition and city assimilation are ideas from Europa Universalis. They are implemented well in Europa Universalis but they are poorly done in Rise of Nations. In Europa Universalis you must first take control over a province and then you can negotiate to annex it. There are benefits to annexing territory in Europa Universalis like increasing trading power but there are also disadvantages as well like poorer relations with other powers. For example, in one game I'm hated throughout the world because I've annexed a lot of territory. In Rise of Nations you just wait a minute or so while the progress bar fills up and that's it--it really serves no greater purpose. The idea of borders (culture borders) is from Civilization and it means something in Civilization but it just doesn't serve any purpose in Rise of Nations other than attrition. In Civilization 3 resources within your borders is yours to trade with other civs. Compared to Civilization 3, in Rise of Nations diplomacy and trading is non-existent. Age of Empires I and II was the first of that kind of real time (vs turned based) strategy games I played and they are great games. I still play Age of Empires today and I like that game except for the population cap. Rise of Nations, on the other hand, pretends to be something that it isn't with the ideas of annexation, borders, attrition etc... Rise of Nations (and I would say also Empire Earth) fail to capture the game play and sense of grandness in the game with all this in addition to the TINY map size. I know even the Giant map size in Age of Empires II is tiny but I expected so much more from Rise of Nations because it pretends to be something more. The idea of having a cap on EVERYTHING is something that I expressly hate in Rise in Nations.

Most recent worst game ever, Rise of Nations.

Woo hoo! One of the many improvements in the new NAM is that you can now see the image of the TGC stack before you place it, you can rotate it 90 degrees, and you can build development right next to it. Just the improvements to the TGC stack alone are significant. Thanks Tropod and everyone else!

Date: 2/26/2005 5:19:45 PM Author: morifari Rich text editing is for sissies.quote> Seems like the NAM site http://www.masoria.com/index.html is dead at the moment.

Date: 2/22/2005 6:19:58 PM Author: zilfondel How about this new 5-level freeway interchange? quote> You can already build something similar to that first stack with the NAM. You can't rotate it yet though. I posted a thread on removing the retaining walls from ground highways a while back: https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=53641 I think if we could remove the retaining walls from the ground highways they would look a lot more realistic.

The Ground-Elevated Highway transition and the ped malls now work with the newly updated stack! I can't wait to see what Tropod is up to. Maybe he has discovered cold-fusion?! Thanks to RedLotus and others for this! Sepsis: Bulldoze the entire area and rebuild. I'm assuming you are using a lot from the STEX? Only 1 out of every 4 or so lots from the STEX work for me. Buildings and props often don't show up and these lots don't have any dependencies according to the author(s). I usually just delete them and then find other lots that work. I've never had a problem with the puzzle pieces from the NAM. They can be tricky at times to rotate and place if there are other things too close. You might also want to contact the owner of the lot you are using.

Date: 2/3/2005 12:57:47 AM Author: newyorkrunaway1 I am not sure what you guys are doing. All my plugins from the NAM work, ped tiles, tgc stack, gradual elevated/ground transition, etc. Post pics of your problems so we can see exactly what kind of problem your having with it.quote> The problem is is that when the TGC stack file is placed in the plugins directory the Ground-Elevated transition is NO LONGER AVAILABLE. The TGC stack itself works. If the TGC stack file is there the Ground-Elevated transition is NO LONGER AVAILABLE period. It is no longer available from the menu or from plopping an Elevated Highway over a Ground Highway (or vica versa)--the game does not prompt you to build the transition. If the TGC stack file is removed from the plugins directory, the Ground-Elevated transition magically becomes available again (from both the menu item and from the in-game building prompt.) These are the files I have in my plugins directory C:\Program Files\Maxis\SimCity 4\Plugins (I have no files in the Documents and Settings plugins directory): NetworkAddonMod.dat NetworkAddonMod_Automata_Plugin_Radical_Automata24.dat NetworkAddonMod_Custom_Highway_Menu_Plugin_Optional.dat NetworkAddonMod_TGC_El_Grnd_Stack.dat NetworkAddonMod_Traffic_Plugin_BetterPathfinding_5xCapacity_10xSpeeds_10xCommute.dat The above files are from the 11-29 version of the NAM. Out of curosity I removed the NetworkAddonMod_Custom_Highway_Menu_Plugin_Optional.dat file to see if it would make any difference--it didn't. Since the Ground-Elevated transition works with the TGC stack on your machine can you post the complete filenames of all the files from the 11-29 NAM distribution that you are using in your plugins directory? Then I can copy the same files you are using from the 11-29 NAM distribution into my plugins directory to see if it makes any difference. As other people have this problem too it can't just be my setup but if we know what you have in your plugins directories we can try using the exact same files you are using from the NAM and see if the problem still occurs. I'm using Rush Hour with the UPDATE_SKU1_TO_P1_B638.EXE patch from EA Games.