simmars-forum-threads Transportation Ideas

[jcabassa 20]

I think for a ferry or a boat, ect, since it'll be ice, it should have a rubber float at the bottom so it could glide around the ice!

 

-jcab

[Vatt3 8]

Trolca, don't wory about the wind, worry about the dust getting into the parts (like everyone else said). I like how its bulky so that it can carry the maximum amount of cargo, since more can be carried in less gravity.

 

And there won't be any boats on mars unless it's some kind of hovership.

[ajokay 0]

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On 3/18/2004 3:07:22 PM Trolca wrote:

Is this acceptable for a train freight engine?

 

I'm not completely done yet.

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Its good, but it still looks too much like a freight locomotive from Earth circa 2004.

 

I know i did this in the animals thread, but i'm a big fan of the Oddworld series of games. Those who have played it will know what i mean when i talk about the kind of stuff they came up with in designing an alien world. Ok, so on oddworld the air was breathable and there were no glass bio-dome things covering everything, but the game is very industrial, and there were some nice concepts.

Some images, if you will:

The main rail station - the 'FeeCo Depot' - complete with hanging monorails:

http://www.oddworld.com/universe/industrial/vehicles/train_assets/cg_assets/scroll_cg09.jpg border=0>

The line within a building:

http://www.oddworld.com/universe/industrial/vehicles/train_assets/cg_assets/scroll_cg06.jpg border=0>

Through the Marsian-looking landscape:

http://www.oddworld.com/universe/industrial/vehicles/train_assets/cg_assets/scroll_cg01.jpg border=0>

Sidings within the depo (background):

http://www.oddworld.com/universe/industrial/vehicles/train_assets/prod_assets/scroll_prod04.jpg border=0>

The tracks:

http://www.oddworld.com/universe/industrial/facilities/mining_co_assets/cg_assets/scroll_cg03.jpg border=0>

 

Some of the ideas that are coming up are great. I'm loving these spacey-looking bridges, the maglevs are looking amazing and hope they will make it into the final game: espicially if they travel at stupidly high speeds.

 

But some of the concepts/designs, IMO, just seem a little too earthy. Seems we still need to think outside the box a little more, like the Oddworld Inhabitants design team did.

Keep up the good work everyone https://community.simtropolis.com/assets/emoticons/1.gif>

 

.

 

.

[Vatt3 8]

You know, I really like the idea of suspended transportation like you posted. It's just the type of thing I've been looking for. If it were possible or feasible (which I don't think it is), I would love to see a system like that implemented into the game. I'm not sure of all the complications that come with some sort of system like that, but I propose that if it's done, it should replace the monorails since those were the network we really had no use for and will look around the same as trains.

 

The reason we aren't thinking too far out of the box is the fact that there are numerous limitations and restrictions. Everyone has to understand that. We are also somewhat bounded by the laws of physics, but those can always be stretched a little https://community.simtropolis.com/assets/emoticons/22.gif>.

 

Good ideas! https://community.simtropolis.com/assets/emoticons/9.gif> That's something I should start drawing up. I'll post tomorrow morning with new pictures of spaceports and this new transportation type I'm going to have fun with. I won't be home for the rest of the evening so this is the last you'll be hearing from me tonight. https://community.simtropolis.com/assets/emoticons/22.gif>

[Trolca 15]

Trolca, don't wory about the wind, worry about the dust getting into the parts (like everyone else said). I like how its bulky so that it can carry the maximum amount of cargo, since more can be carried in less gravity.

 

I'm not worried about gravity, at least not for the engine. It's not going to be hauling, just pulling in the form of freight cars. Because it's hovering, most of the friction will be from wind resistance.
 
And there won't be any boats on mars unless it's some kind of hovership.

Its good, but it still looks too much like a freight locomotive from Earth circa 2004.

 

I made it simple and functional. A low profile for cross winds. A high profile cab for clear vision in all directions.

[jcabassa 20]

azwethinkweiz has an awesome idea there! We should use it!

 

Wow! I spelled his name right!https://community.simtropolis.com/assets/emoticons/6.gif>https://community.simtropolis.com/assets/emoticons/22.gif>

 

-jcab

[vidioman 21]

What about the flying cars from Futurama?

-vid

[The Great Chozo 34]

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On 3/18/2004 5:48:10 PM jcabassa wrote:

azwethinkweiz has an awesome idea there! We should use it!

 

Wow! I spelled his name right!

https://community.simtropolis.com/assets/emoticons/6.gif>

https://community.simtropolis.com/assets/emoticons/22.gif>

 

-jcab

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Yes, I think he had some good ideas as well. But......

We have to keep in mind that what was created in Oddworld is the intellectual property of the developers. Drawing inspiration from different areas is great, but taking a direct idea and implementing it is not.

I know that no one has suggested we do this, but I just want to make sure that no one does. We are going to be spending A LOT of time on this project, and I see no reason why we can't put our own creations in the game. Lets draw on these ideas, and the ones that have yet to be posted. But when it comes down to designing the models, lets also make sure that we design them in a way that is not a blatant rip off.

I like the suspended train idea, but I am not a big fan of the train engine, which is a giant face with its mouth open.

Just my two cents on that issue.

TGC

[ajokay 0]

Aww heck, i just wrote a great long reply to TGC's post, but the server timed out and i lost it. I doubt anyone would have read it anyway (I wouldn't have!)

Basically, what i said was agreeing with TGC... draw ideas from any futuristic/funky new technological resources that we can, from Futurama to The Jetsons, from Minority Report to Star Wars, from Oddworld thru Half-Life to G-Police.

But when it comes to implementing thees ideas we have make them our own, not simply copying.

Its just some of the ideas are seemingly still 20th century Earth, rather than 21st/22nd Century Mars.

I doubt that in 100 years time, on another planet, passengers and freight will be moved from one place to another using diesel-powered vehicles on metal rails, seeing as the diesel technology is already 50 years old as it stands in 2004, let alone the 100 year-old tracks they run on.

Right, i'm off to bed...

good night

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[defence22 0]

Um...Aren't we using maglev for rails? Magnets are not only used for hovering, but also propulsion. This means that there are magnets on the sides of the track. Even the freight engine should be much more streamlined. Remember that the mars colonies will be knew-we will have already learned about our mistakes. So there will most likely be little pollution. Before working on the Maglev I suggest you go to http://transrapid.de/en/index.html . Also if anyone has any ?'s feel free to PM me since I'm pretty knowledgable about Maglev.

[Techleo 18]

Id like to make a comment Azwe. Using ideas from sci-fi is all good and well. But reality is often fairly slow to intergrate. People in general reject ultra-futuristic ideas because of risk. Therefore you often see the oldest ideas with modern elements. I honestly expect the martian colonists to live fairly rough lives with few ammenities. Large bulky metal buidlings. Easy to run and efficent maglevs. Not to fancy. Lots of simples systems that can be repaired without having to ship in parts from earth. Anycase I would expect new systems. Just in a few decades after the intail foundation cities are finished. That raises a question. In this mod how long have humans been on mars?

[The Great Chozo 34]

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On 3/18/2004 7:33:45 PM azwethinkweiz wrote:Aww heck, i just wrote a great long reply to TGC's post, but the server timed out and i lost it. I doubt anyone would have read it anyway (I wouldn't have!)

Basically, what i said was agreeing with TGC... draw ideas from any futuristic/funky new technological resources that we can, from Futurama to The Jetsons, from Minority Report to Star Wars, from Oddworld thru Half-Life to G-Police.

But when it comes to implementing thees ideas we have make them our own, not simply copying.

Its just some of the ideas are seemingly still 20th century Earth, rather than 21st/22nd Century Mars.

I doubt that in 100 years time, on another planet, passengers and freight will be moved from one place to another using diesel-powered vehicles on metal rails, seeing as the diesel technology is already 50 years old as it stands in 2004, let alone the 100 year-old tracks they run on.

Right, i'm off to bed...

good night

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

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OK, I am only replying to aswethinkweiz's post. I haven't read the two below it.

We are not using diesel power. You gotta give us more credit than that!!!!!

Technology that is prevalent on Earth at the time of the initial Mars settlements, will be the technology that is implemented. If it is tried and true then, we are going to go with it, as opposed to create a brand new technology. There are places on Earth that are far harsher than Mars, and we have conquered some of them with our engineering know how. So a lot of what you find on Mars will have a lot of Earthly influences. We will do it right, trust us. And hey if you don't like the final product, then don't install it, that simple.

I think you will like what we come up with though.

Peace

The Great Chozo

[GouRou 2]

the idea of the mag lev locomotive has already been shown to work. a bank of paired magnets fire in pulsed sequences, over and over, pushing against the pulse stage of the magnets below, this will draw the entire system forewards, even tho the train would normally be only moving minimally, the system then counters for this and fires the sequence faster, at which time the engine does the same, pushing against, but with the flow, speeding up the acceleration.

it was done to see if there was a way to move heavy freight using the same system as much lower weight passenger vehicles, once the entire train is moving, it's much easier to get up to speed.

on mars we're looking for simple utilitarian systems for industrial, anywhere that does heavy work will be as simple as possible, that engine is perfect for exactly that reason, it may be ugly, but it's actually quite right.

trolca, keep in mind that the 'cars' will need to be heavy duty, they will need their own magnet stages for lift, the system is generally not used for heavy lifting, but with some magnetic banks on the cars it can be done, so try to design with that idea in mind.

[Vatt3 8]

I would just like to say that I'm going to draw up an idea roughly based on a suspended system like that. I'm not sure how it will work or what it will run on as of now, but I imagine it will look something like a suspended monorail. I was thinking that it would work on rocket jets (I use that word very loosely). It would control it's own speed and be anchored to some sort of track, only it would be suspended in the Martian air. It could be fairly high off the ground, but that can be worked out later.

 

As for the freight maglev, we are using maglev for all the trains as of now I believe. I agree with Gourou about the looks of the cars.

[GouRou 2]

are monorails 2d or 3d models?

[Vatt3 8]

You know, I'm really not sure, but I'm assuming they're like elevated rails. I'm pretty sure you can change the actual monorail cars, but as for the tracks, that's where I'm not sure. It will probably end up that changing the actual track is impossible, or is still a secret https://community.simtropolis.com/assets/emoticons/15.gif>.

[GouRou 2]

well 2d or 3d, we can modify them, it's just that 3d will take longer.

[ajokay 0]

It would be cool/funny to see the suspended monorails modeled as the suspended rollercoasters of today, take Nemesis at Alton Towers in the UK for example:

http://lachlan.bluehaze.com.au/altontower/nemesis.jpg width=640 border=0>

 

Any persons with a nervous disposition, heart problems, and pregant women...

 

...sorry, but you'll have to take the bus.

[The Great Chozo 34]

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On 3/19/2004 10:10:24 AM GouRou wrote:are monorails 2d or 3d models?

----------------

GouRou, I'm pretty confident that monorails are 3D, as are the elevated rails. The 3D designs will take longer, but will look better. I am up for anything. Give me a good design Vatt, and I will build it for you.

I have two projects going right now. Fixing a workaround for the automata problem, which is taking me longer than I though, but I am getting somewhere. I need to get with Redlotus in the near future so he can show me how to mod the transit networks. That way I will be able to test these new tunnels immediately instead of having to send it to him, and bog him down with work (which I don't want to have to do https://community.simtropolis.com/assets/emoticons/12.gif>). Second, I am working on the designs that Vatt posted earlier for elevated rail, surface rail and stations that correspond with those tracks. As well as the elevated to surface transition.

Being that we hadn't found a good use for the monorails up to now, I think the idea of a suspended system would be great. It would add more variety.

The Great Chozo

[The Great Chozo 34]

Here's a little something special:

 

Damnit Jimmy I have told you a million times to put your space suit on BEFORE you leave the house. I am sick and tired of cleaning your breakfast off of the windows!!!!!!

 

 

Redlotus, look at the next pic. Something happened while you were modding the transit files. The tubes are one tile in L and W, but they are built at the junction of two tiles. The screenshot explains it:

 

 

I will probably just wait until you show me how to mod these to fix it, but I thought I would let you know. You may know the problem already.

 

Also in the screenshot are the 3 zones. I didn't know if the red terrain was going to throw off the appearance of undeveloped zones, but apparently it will be just fine. I know this isn't our department, but I figured I would test that out anyway.

 

Well the networks aren't finished yet obviously, but we have gotten somewhere at least.

 

Chozo

[Vatt3 8]

Good looking screenshots, although the road pieces got a little messed up on the slopes. I have to go for the rest of the evening, but tomorrow morning I'll certainly have the new designs up including the suspended network https://community.simtropolis.com/assets/emoticons/9.gif>.

 

The zones are fine by the way.

[redlotus 16]

So much going on.  Where to begin?

 

Well, first of all, the monorail IS a 3D network.  So are the ground and elevated highways, and the elevated rail.  They won't be easy to change, but with DarkMatter working on DatGen and ilive working on the Reader, this may become a little easier in the future.

 

TGC,

I was aware of the 'issue' that you pointed out above.  For some reason, the game only has network lots for every other network tile.  In order to have a continuous tube along a striaght road I had two choices:  send the model that you sent me back so that you could make it 32m long or place the model at both edges of the tile.  I figured that putting them on the edges would be a quicker solution and that you would prefer not having to redo the models.https://community.simtropolis.com/assets/emoticons/2.gif>

 

This brings us to a huge problem that I've stumbled upon.  Unfortunately, there are no network lots for curves or transitional network pieces.  This means that we will always have holes somewhere in the tube lines.  At this point I do not know of any possible solution to this problem.  Because of this, I believe that the project to use the network lots should be put on hold.  The modd team and I will continue to look for ways around this problem and keep everyone updated if we find anything new.  If anyone has any ideas, I am certainly open to suggestions.

 

-red

[The Great Chozo 34]

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On 3/19/2004 6:46:06 PM redlotus wrote:

So much going on.  Where to begin?

 

Well, first of all, the monorail IS a 3D network.  So are the ground and elevated highways, and the elevated rail.  They won't be easy to change, but with DarkMatter working on DatGen and ilive working on the Reader, this may become a little easier in the future.

 

TGC,

I was aware of the 'issue' that you pointed out above.  For some reason, the game only has network lots for every other network tile.  In order to have a continuous tube along a striaght road I had two choices:  send the model that you sent me back so that you could make it 32m long or place the model at both edges of the tile.  I figured that putting them on the edges would be a quicker solution and that you would prefer not having to redo the models.

https://community.simtropolis.com/assets/emoticons/2.gif>

 

This brings us to a

huge

problem that I've stumbled upon.  Unfortunately, there are no network lots for curves or transitional network pieces.  This means that we will always have holes somewhere in the tube lines.  At this point I do not know of any possible solution to this problem.  Because of this, I believe that the project to use the network lots should be put on hold.  The modd team and I will continue to look for ways around this problem and keep everyone updated if we find anything new.  If anyone has any ideas, I am certainly open to suggestions.

 

-red

----------------

Thanks for the warning Red.

I was just getting to the point where I was going to start talking to you about the curves and how to approach those. I had a feeling there was going to be a problem there, but I didn't realized it was going to be like THAT. It isn't the end of the world. The two most powerful forces in the universe are human ingenuity and the human imagination so I know we can get around that. I will finish up the few alternative tubes I was working on, and then put them aside until I know for sure if they are going to be canned.

I had started to make textures for the roads and avenues, and after what you said we may have to seriously use them. I will focus the energy I was spending on the tubes to the textures, since that is what we will most likely end up using for the transportation. The vehicles will now need to appear more pressurized than we had originally thought. This will also solve the problem of how to connect buildings to the tubes and how to approach the bus stops and subway stops.

I'm dissappointed to hear about that, but I think it will turn out just fine in the end. It may even open up some other possibilites that we had previously ruled out because we were going to use tubes.

As far a redoing the models I wouldn't care one bit. The way I redesigned them the second time was a versatile one. I took into account that I may need to change them again in the future. So after the second re-design all I would have to do to change the length is just copy the single piece and put the copy in line behind the first, and voila, you have a 32m. long tube piece. Now it seems that I won't even have to do that, but you never know. Keep me posted on anything that may allow the tubes to be put back into the game.

Well, I can now focus on the designs for the mass transportation systems. Vatt will post some sketches up here tom. of some suspended networks that he is envisioning. I will work with them, and finish what I started from his earlier sketches. Along with those projects I will start building more and more bridges of all different styles starting with the road bridges, since they are smaller and easier to manipulate and mod.

I am going to see some SXSW (South by Southwest) concerts this evening, but after that I will be home to work on the BAT stuff, and if anything comes up please let me know either with a PM, e-mail, or a post.

Later folks.

The Great Chozo

[Vatt3 8]

That's a big disappointment, but like TGC said, we can always get around it. I thought something like this might happen, so I was thinking, how about we just use the ground texture from the tube for the road texture. That way the roads would look like we want, but they just would be open. A magnetic force would keep the hoverCars from flying off the road. I think this is what you were thinking TGC.

 

I also have a picture of my design I drew of the suspended monorail:

 

 

As far as propulsion goes, I think that at the end of the last car there should be some sort of engine that gets this thing moving at high speeds. You can see that I drew something in on the back (but I made it so that it could be almost anything. We may have to streamline the front a little better also. There are small control towers on all the supports since the whole system is run electronically.

[The Great Chozo 34]

Vatt, that is exactly what I was thinking.

 

That is a nice sketch. I will copy that image, and then see what I can come up with. That is a good design, and I like it. I think it can be improved on, but hey, that I why we are a team, and not just one.

 

I am still working on some designs for the last sketches you posted. I have just figured out how to play with the free form deformation modifiers, so I am going to use this on some of the structures you posted.

 

TGC

 

I

[Vatt3 8]

Glad you like it TGC. I also decided to go working on designing some of the air travel. First I designed a ship/plane.

 

 

It's called a V-Jet and it's roughly shaped like a 'v' and I'm not sure how it moves but I pretty much drew up something that could be anything, so it's open to suggestion. It may look rather small, but they come in many sizes, but the smaller, the faster.

 

 

This is just some different view of the V-Jet. I made a special symbol (top left). This symbol shows special pads for it to land on since it does land vertically, although it could also land horizontally also. It pretty much can land anywhere, even in the Martian plains.

I also have two more shots of two Spaceports, but I don't want to go showing everything at once so in a little while, after I eat breakfast, I'll fix up the other two pictures and post them.

[GouRou 2]

square law my friend, the wings need 100 times the surface area, so drag them back and out 10 times further. make it look more like a butterfly maybe, same v tho.

[fosterk 4]

i dont want to be the party pooper but,

how are the road tubes gonna handle hills? this needs to be sorted out or we could end up with jaggedy roads going up hills instead of smooth curving roads...

sorry for the party poop.https://community.simtropolis.com/assets/emoticons/15.gif>

[GouRou 2]

as it stands, tubes just got a back burner, the game isnt set up to handle them, so we might not have them. we'll have open air vehicles for those that want to stay in a suit, and we'll have very large pressurized vehicles for those that dont want a suit.

[Vatt3 8]

After we take the Martian gravity and atmosphere into account will the wings still need to be 100 times, or a little less than that? I'm not sure how far to draw them out. Should they be twice as large as they are now, or how many more times?