The Mass Transit Discussion Thread

[Mastaflex 0]

Originally posted by: mr cars

Monte Cristo have said they are considering releasing content to solo players for a small price.

MC have to make money too you know. They spent alot of money developing the game, and they need it back!quote>

They will get it back, the GEMs look very promising and seem to have no end in sight with the right imagination but the main issue here is leaving out something which should have been basic for this genre, almost as basic as waste disposal. Not even including taxis services or bus stops to the solo option is a bit annoying and again irrelevant issues such as they need money gets brought up to annoy even more.

[urbanlife 2]

Originally posted by: Ilikeseattle

Seeing as mass transit was added for SimCity 4 rush hour, years after the release of the original game and CitiesXL has only been around for 2 months, it would seem reasonable that mass transit (which is very complex) will take a little bit of time. Let the naysayers say whatever floats their boats. But because this game is French, they get...

quote>

Which is why I did not  buy SC4 until SC4 Deluxe came out...I am pretty sure it will be the same for me when it comes to CXL...then they decide to finish the game and release it to solo players in a full package, then I will probably buy the game...I dont mind buying the plugins that they talk about (the mini games) if I like them, but I will not buy an incomplete game hoping they will one day finish it...for me, that too is a bad business plan on my part.  If they cannot give me a complete game, why should I give them money?

[urbanlife 2]

Originally posted by: Mastaflex

Originally posted by: mr cars

Monte Cristo have said they are considering releasing content to solo players for a small price.

MC have to make money too you know. They spent alot of money developing the game, and they need it back!quote>

They will get it back, the GEMs look very promising and seem to have no end in sight with the right imagination but the main issue here is leaving out something which should have been basic for this genre, almost as basic as waste disposal. Not even including taxis services or bus stops to the solo option is a bit annoying and again irrelevant issues such as they need money gets brought up to annoy even more.quote>

That would be like buying a shooter video game, only to find out that you only have three weapons to pick from and that they will slowly be releasing more weapons at a small fee over the course of the next several years.  Would you guys buy that game too?

[fafa123 0]

Originally posted by: urbanlife

Originally posted by: Mastaflex

Originally posted by: mr cars

Monte Cristo have said they are considering releasing content to solo players for a small price.

MC have to make money too you know. They spent alot of money developing the game, and they need it back!quote>

They will get it back, the GEMs look very promising and seem to have no end in sight with the right imagination but the main issue here is leaving out something which should have been basic for this genre, almost as basic as waste disposal. Not even including taxis services or bus stops to the solo option is a bit annoying and again irrelevant issues such as they need money gets brought up to annoy even more.quote>

That would be like buying a shooter video game, only to find out that you only have three weapons to pick from and that they will slowly be releasing more weapons at a small fee over the course of the next several years.  Would you guys buy that game too?

quote>

Thats so arogant from MC!

I was looking forward for this huge potential game!

MC kill it by them self!

I will send a message to Nelly Crouse from EU internet and software issue in Buxelles,about misleading of costummers.

This game is betraying !

BIG mistake MC!

[Cob92 360]

I don't mind paying for the content from Monte Cristo, so long as once I've paid, I get to keep it; on my computer, for my use, as long as I own a copy of Cities XL. What I don't like is the PO arrangement where you have to keep your subscription up or else you lose access to all the content no matter how much you've paid.

[gyzzzmo 0]

Originally posted by: Asheroo

I will just say again in this thread (since its more relevant) about potential mass transit for single player...

Matthew told me that he has passed on the suggestion and interest of a mass transit expansion pack for single player,so they are talking about it, and it could well and truly happen. It makes perfect sense, and will be a massive win/win situation, with MC getting lots more money and support, and us getting mass transit in single player. Nothing is official yet though, but it is a lot of potential and hope, and it could happen, so don't jump to conclusions yet on mass transit in single player.quote>

I doubt that is really an option, since on the site and on the game theres alot of insinuation that mass transit is part of the Cities XL game, thus that you get it if you buy the game. So i dont think it is even allowed by law to let us pay for that extra content in an expansionpack.

[mr cars 1]

MC Aren't misleading us. If you think the are, you probaly haven't done enough research on the game.

[soltangris 42]

Agreed. Besides, they surely have their lawyers that have made sure nobody could sue them

Anyway, I was never for a moment expecting something that I didn't actually get. Granted, I'm constantly keeping myself informed....

[Asheroo 53]

Originally posted by: gyzzzmo

Originally posted by: Asheroo

I will just say again in this thread (since its more relevant) about potential mass transit for single player...

Matthew told me that he has passed on the suggestion and interest of a mass transit expansion pack for single player,so they are talking about it, and it could well and truly happen. It makes perfect sense, and will be a massive win/win situation, with MC getting lots more money and support, and us getting mass transit in single player. Nothing is official yet though, but it is a lot of potential and hope, and it could happen, so don't jump to conclusions yet on mass transit in single player.quote>

I doubt that is really an option, since on the site and on the game theres alot of insinuation that mass transit is part of the Cities XL game, thus that you get it if you buy the game. So i dont think it is even allowed by law to let us pay for that extra content in an expansionpack.quote>

I strongly highly doubt there is such a silly law like that.

Also, it does say on the website in many places that buses will be after release in a content pack, and mass transit. You can't just not do reading and look at the screens thinking that is stuff that is in the game right now and expect it, as it's just MC showing off what's in progress and what's coming, which is great. If you do, well that's what you get for not reading. Maybe MC should go back to the "Work in Progress" signs on the screens, and videos.

[Msprintz 25]

Originally posted by: Asheroo

I think of it as paying for the "main engine" of the game and the real basic stuff. It kind of reminds me of Flight Simulator X (which I use a lot), how the first payment pays for the main engine and basic elements, and then comes all the amazing add ons (they are 3rd party though).

quote>

You're missing one key point here.  While Flight Simulator or even Train Simulator include the basics, they also include a fairly substantial amount of content off the bat.  It's not like they are shipping the game without any substance, which is what MC is currently doing.  It doesn't help that you only have to pay once to have the features in these respective games, and if you add content you're not harassed to keep paying at the risk of losing that content.

Both do have excellent paid 3rd party add on content, in addition to quality unpaid add on content.     

 

[soltangris 42]

Well, you can't say the game is without substance. The very basics are there, of them only mass transit is missing.

[DazzaDazza 29]

your paying for more then just the engine and basic elements, you are paying for of the game, single player is still a game, you can still build a city, I dislike the fact that buses and trains are only for PO as the next person, be the fact lies, you and i bort the game Cities XL single player version, it allows you to build a city on 25 different maps, you get 500 different building, you can build roads you can mage you city. if you wont more out of the game then you can do so, you can pay the monthly fee and get the most out of it, if your like me and you don't wont to pay for the rest of the game, THEN SO BE IT.

There is nothing misleading or illegal about it, NO ONE can tell MC what they can or can't put in the game and what they can or can't charge for, SimCity is not a legal precedents for what has to go into every city builder, if MC don't wont to put thing in CXL game then that is there right, it is also your right not to buy the game, it is your right to keep playing SC4. If you are unhappy about paying extra for thing then why did you buy the game in the first place?

I am all fore complaining about the game, and such thing like boring square lot, crappy intersections, and lifeless city and so on, but MC have there business model, this is what they are doing it, if or when it come time that they will release the rest of the game to the non paying people then you and I will have to decide wether it is worth it or not. until then, if you wont the full game that bad then you will have to pay for it, like many other thing in life.

[Sainty 0]

I think that we all should hold hands together now and sing "we shall overcome".

[fafa123 0]

Originally posted by: soltangris

Well, you can't say the game is without substance. The very basics are there, of them only mass transit is missing.quote>

... only mass transit is missing

Its like buying a shooting game without guns!!!

Nice he?

There is no sence or fun without.

I dont play this game anymore and dont like pay again!

[soltangris 42]

Jesus people, what the hell? Mass transit is NOT the basis of a city builder, development simulation is. Mass transit is only one of features (OK, a very important one) that participate in that simulation!

[zero7 68]

To me the calls for rail are a little misplaced. Given the scale of a CXL map the most you'd realistically have would be a main city station, maybe a couple of commuter stations and then links off the map - that don't really go anywhere because the CXL 'planets' have no true geography. I think buses and either trams or subway are the real omissions given the map scale. Personally I think buses should be given to all purchasers as a goodwill gesture and recognition that the basic game has been trimmed back too far - it would also be a recognition that in most of the world there really is no such thing as a town without buses; let alone a city.

Other mass transport is optional in the real world so MC have some justification for excluding them.

I think it's also worth pointing to what they appear to have done with the bus system - in that it allows the creation of real bus routes rather than the random wanderings of vehicle sprites that happen to look like buses as they are in SC4. If something similar is done with trams and subways then there would be some justification in considering them separate add-ons.

[Asheroo 53]

Look, in other words everyone, we all have our own opinions, and all entitled to them, but can those people who want to bash MC stop forcing us more positive users to be like you guys. All we want to do is express our opinions and discuss about the game, but no, you come in and destroy the thread by spamming your bashing. Yeah, ok, we get it, we know you're disappointed, we know you dislike the game, we know Mass Transit is a big thing for you, but I can I speak for myself?

In my opinion, Mass Transit is not a basic feature, it's a more complex feature, but I do completely agree it is an important feature for a city building game.

@ Fafa123 - I actually think of it as buying a shooting game without a remote grenade, but with a timed grenade, or buying the game without a "make your own explosive" feature. It's hard to compare on a scale features of a city building game to features of a shooting game. Anyway, I respect your opinion man, but I'm just expressing mine.

[Ocram's Razr 963]

Monte Cristo is working on trains. Trains are completely relevant in this game because I use rail in conjunction with subway within 1 city or between 2-4 cities.

By the way, how did people post while Simtropolis was down?

[DazzaDazza 29]

i agree with zero7 you can live with out trains

Yah Ilikeseattle I wondered the same thing

[Msprintz 25]

Originally posted by: soltangris

Jesus people, what the hell? Mass transit is NOT the basis of a city builder, development simulation is. Mass transit is only one of features (OK, a very important one) that participate in that simulation!

quote>

It's not just about mass tansit, it's the "flawed" simulation offered as well. 

There is a laundry list of items one could pick off as to what is missing/wrong in CXL.

I'd list em' all but we'd wind up with a post a mile long. 

So I'll just go with an abridged list:

Missing- micromanagement *

Missing- "NATURAL" resource management *

Missing- vibrant sounds *

Missing- complex and modern zoning systems

Missing- complex power/water/waste management *

Missing- statistical information for structures *

The simulation is missing from a game that bills itself as a simulator. 

[bluespottedhorse 49]

Personally, I think rail as eyecandy is sufficient with all the tools to create railyards stations etc. If they implement buses and they are, these should be real working like SC4.

[soltangris 42]

Mks, we definetily have different definitions of simulation.

But never mind, stick to SC4 then.

[Tuscan 20]

Cities XL is an expensive joke, it represents all that is wrong with modern day games.. Thats Tuscans opinion

[DazzaDazza 29]

Originally posted by: mks24

Originally posted by: soltangris

Jesus people, what the hell? Mass transit is NOT the basis of a city builder, development simulation is. Mass transit is only one of features (OK, a very important one) that participate in that simulation!

quote>

It's not just about mass tansit, it's the "flawed" simulation offered as well. 

There is a laundry list of items one could pick off as to what is missing/wrong in CXL.

I'd list em' all but we'd wind up with a post a mile long. 

So I'll just go with an abridged list:

Missing- micromanagement *

Missing- "NATURAL" resource management *

Missing- vibrant sounds *

Missing- complex and modern zoning systems

Missing- complex power/water/waste management *

Missing- statistical information for structures *

The simulation is missing from a game that bills itself as a simulator. 

quote>

All theses thing can be implemented into the game later, the only catch will be is you have to pay for it. 

also what is  missing in the simulation compared to SC4?

 

[Ocram's Razr 963]

Would you like some cheese with your wine, "mks24?" How is the presence of the resources water, oil, and fertile lands lead to "Missing- 'NATURAL' resource management*?" There are vibrant sounds, they are just .PAK packed and not read by the game (at the moment). How complex do you want your utilities?

[soltangris 42]

He probably means that there are no power lines and pipes

Actually let me comment some more on his post:

Missing - micromanagement. Yeah, you can't tweak your high school's funding a little so that it covers an additional block. You also can't make your power station to work with 1/100 of its potential. Jah! Anyway, MC is indeed adding more micromanagement.

Missing- NATURAL resource management. ????????? How is water and fuel and africulture not natural resource? Not to mention that SC4 had only water? What about snow and beach resources which are to come?

Missing-vibrant sounds. Depends on what you consider vibrant sound. And I don't know, people keep saying it's not missing, it's just not playing for some reason.

Missing - complex and modern zoning systems. And your ideal zoning system is - what? And your present reference for zoning system is - what? Oh yeah, SC4 which had square-based zones. Nooooooo, CXL's free zoning is not modern, it doesn't allow you to create zones of all kinds of shapes.... it also doesn't allow you to plop all the buildings wherever you whish.....oh wait, but it does! (well, let's not consider this fact, it's against my city-building anti-MC phylosophy!

Missing complex power/water/waste management. Yeah, there aren't any pipes and power lines. And trading utilities with other cities isn't considered management, right?

Missing -statistical information for structures. Hm, what does that big pannel tell me about the structure? What do those things mean? What are those dots? Colors? Where the hell are the numbers? Where are my chaaaaaaaaaaarts????!!!! No,no, this is so childish! I'm soooo not gonna accept this as statistical information! Oh, wait, there appear percentages when you hover over the dots.... hmmmmmmmmmm.....

[DazzaDazza 29]

well I cant agree with you when it come to zoning, indeed you can put lots in any direction but you can put roads in any direction as well so that was always a given, but SC4s zoning system is still far better then CXL, you can chooses what every size lot you wonted, CXL only has 2 lot sizes, small square, large square, so you always end up with large parts of you city with unused land, this is even more so when you are upgrading from medium to high. Cant say I every had that problem in SC4.

CXL zoning is ill-conceived and dose not fit with the rest of the free nature of the game

[Msprintz 25]

Originally posted by: soltangris

Missing - micromanagement. Yeah, you can't tweak your high school's funding a little so that it covers an additional block. You also can't make your power station to work with 1/100 of its potential. Jah! Anyway, MC is indeed adding more micromanagement.

quote>

You can't tweak anything, period!  Apparently you have little control over what services cost, regardless of use.  Nevermind that some of the structures included are generally private business IE: bowling alleys and as such shouldn't cost a city money( unless it's a really crime infested bowling alley ). 

 

Originally posted by: soltangris

Missing- NATURAL resource management. ????????? How is water and fuel and not natural resource?

quote>

Those are the only two that are real "NATURAL" resources.  Where's coal, iron, gold, etc...?  You know the precious metals.  These are the backbone of modern society, without these no city would exist as it does today.  Nevermind the inclusion of such resources could greatly improve gameplay with "PRIMARY INDUSTRIES".  Think about the prospects of importing coal and iron from 3 cities away and producing Iron that your city consumes and exports to others.  

Yes NATURAL resource mangament is sorely lacking, and I highly doubt any plans are in the works to include.   

Originally posted by: soltangris

Missing complex power/water/waste management. Yeah, there aren't any pipes and power lines. And trading utilities with other cities isn't considered management, right?

quote>

And where does this water come from eh?  apparently we're dissilusion into the prospect that these water towers magically transport water( randomly placed somewhere on the map ), to the city.  Where are reservoirs, sewer systems, power substations, etc...?  I want the ability to bring the resources together and see where they come from. 

There is limited to no management whatsoever of critcal utilities.   

Originally posted by: soltangris

Missing -statistical information for structures. Hm, what does that big pannel tell me about the structure? What do those things mean? What are those dots? Colors? Where the hell are the numbers? Where are my chaaaaaaaaaaarts????!!!! No,no, this is so childish! I'm soooo not gonna accept this as statistical information! Oh, wait, there appear percentages when you hover over the dots.... hmmmmmmmmmm.....quote>

You don't actually see the "real" usage of roads or services, it just says some or a little... very un-informative.

If politicians and businesses replied with just some business improved( well where'd it improve eh?), they do laughed out of the room.

So far all that MC has done is talk, they haven't really shown much doing.  These are features that would provide "Depth".  Something that makes the game actually worth paying for. 

 

[morriswalters 16]

Any stats involving population would be a bust, because population and how it builds is not a constant.  This is also true of employment.

The most useful stat for roads is available in the road menu. Cars per minute.  Both is SC4 and CXL traffic is always a worst case scenario.  Jammed roads will always be jammed.  Cars per Minute tells you when they are at peak, and allows you to read the colors.  Clicking on the roads during the beta gave you the routes of everybody traveling on a road, but other than bringing my computer to it's knees it really didn't tell you anything.

I personally wished power plants worked differently.  I would like to see them as a multi city affair, like power coops in the US.  But that's not the game MC made.  Personally for me that makes more sense for a blueprint than the The Colossus of Rhodes. In terms of the demand display for power, It's one of the things I like about electricity production in the game.  It allows me to build what I need and then ignore it until I need more. Ditto for water.  As an aside,  I would bet money that the mayor of my city has no idea other than a general one of how pipes run in the ground or where, and would be given the bums rush if he suggested to a utility that they should turn down a generator.

At some point is development they at least thought about natural resources since there are indicators in the game files that mining was a possibility.  Whether that will ever come to fruition is up for grabs.  Success breeds innovation.

What it really comes down to though is that MC didn't build SC5.  At this point in  time the game is citysim with delusions of a trading sim, with overtones of a tycoon game.  My guess is that for those who want to micromanage they will have to wait for buses and GEMS.  The game is about two months old and hopefully in time they will give you some of the toys you want.

I would love to see them move those things that I would classify as businesses into the retail menu, add parks of some kind to the leisure menu and jack up the price of all of it.  This would hush the people who think it's an evil conspiracy to sell the socialist model here in the good ole' US of A.  The money part would give people something different to complain about.   But in point of fact it will make absolutely no difference.

[Ocram's Razr 963]

You are partially right. Primary industries would be a welcomed addition to the game. I see a possible GEM if there is enough demand (they will not supply anything lacking demand). I would love to have coal mines but all buildings that could use it, use (oil) fuel instead. I also think that iron, precious metals, luxury products (indigo and fancy fruits and textile plants could be grown on plantations in agriculture zones and certain factories should produce luxury goods from precious metals), nuclear fuel (for nuclear power only), and toxic/radioactive waste should be included as tokens. The problem is that the company cannot add more tokens.