The Mass Transit Discussion Thread

[DazzaDazza 29]

Yah, the game is what it is.

 

 Those are the only two that are real "NATURAL" resources.  Where's coal, iron, gold, etc...?  You know the precious metals.  These are the backbone of modern society, without these no city would exist as it does today.  Nevermind the inclusion of such resources could greatly improve gameplay with "PRIMARY INDUSTRIES".  Think about the prospects of importing coal and iron from 3 cities away and producing Iron that your city consumes and exports to others.

 

you wont to be able to mine rescores, why, it is a city building game, the  hole point of playing the game is to  build a city, not to mine rescores, you only have a small map to build on, if they keep adding thing like this then the main focus of the game becomes redundant.  again you just end up trading recourse, and not build Nice looking city 

 

And where does this water come from eh?  apparently we're dissilusion into the prospect that these water towers magically transport water( randomly placed somewhere on the map ), to the city.  Where are reservoirs, sewer systems, power substations, etc...?  I want the ability to bring the resources together and see where they come from. 

I agree where dose the water come from, it is like the question How come you can trade water and electricity with a city from the other side of the globe,  I used to care about this then I realized, who give a stuff where they come from it doesn’t really matter, nothing else in the game is realistic so, it doesn’t real matter. if it add to the game then so be it.   

When it come to water in your city   why do you wont to spend hours running water pips, when in SC4 was there every a need to not run a water pipes to a buildings, if we are talking in real life then there is a water pipe going to just about every house in you city, under the roads,  if there isn’t then they have there own water tanks.  So running pips are a bit pointless, and it doesn’t really add anything to the game.    I can see why they left it out

 

So far all that MC has done is talk, they haven't really shown much doing.  These are features that would provide "Depth".  Something that makes the game actually worth paying for. 

 

When you look at SC4 there is not much depth to that ether,   so I don't really know where you are coming from.    

[Asheroo 53]

Woah, has anyone realised how off-topic we are at the moment? This is not another thread to bash or defend MC because of peoples' opinions on CXL, this is The Mass Transit Discussion.

Back Onto Topic: Yeah, the bus system looks great, very similar system to what I described in my Micro-Management Article back on the old forums, so I'm glad they got something from that. I remember long ago in an interview, they also stated the train system would be similar, so looking forward to that. Would be nice to hear some news though of pay-for content packs for single player.

[soltangris 42]

Yeah, we got waaaay off topic with mks's post. Concerning busses: I'm really excited about them, so long the info they gave us looks very promising. And if the trains (and metro) go along the same lines, there's nothing else I could wish for.

Well, there is, of course, always possbility of improvement and adding depht, but more than that will require a GEM and I think would move the focus of the game.

Mrdazza, what do you mean by your zoning comment? If memory serves, the zones in SC4 where handled much the same way as in CXL, that is: you drag the mouse and get more squares covered; the more squares you cover, the more lots appear. Inicially there were 2x2 and 3x3 lots, if I remember right (sorry, haven't played SC4 for a while), which were separated by roads where appropriate. However, since the game engine would place the appropriate buildings (lots) randomly, and later even replace them, you don't actually have any control over your zoning, and where things appear. So, even if there were more lot sizes built with the Lot Editor, how could you choose which ones would appear? And don't forget that the grid system was always paramount, so technically you always had to orient your buildings in one of 8 possible directions. Which is not the case with CXL.

There you draw in a grid-free system; you trace the boundaries of the zone, which by the way would cling to existing roads (so you can actually make circular zones. Buildings thus can face all directions. If the zone size allows it, it would also include an internal road with more lots, if not it gets automatically filled with grass/concrete. I think this is a far better zoning system - you can actually draw zone of almost any form, with buildings facing all possible directions. AND MC said they're considering implementing more lot sizes. How's all that inferior to SC4?

[DazzaDazza 29]

soltangris, you can zone what lot goes in a spot, if I have free space in left over say 1x1 then I can zone 1x1 or 1x2 or 3x3 or anything for that matter, as long as there is a lot to fit then you can do anything. At the moment in CXL you can just place "filler". also when zoning press Alt (I think it is Alt it has been some time) and you can zone whatever lot size you wont, as long as you have a lot to fit with that size then the building will appear, so if you have a particular building you wont then just zone fore it, there is also a several plop mods as well so you can chooses what ever lot you wont. The key factors hear is size and shapes of lots, trying to fit square shapes in to round shapes don't really work, that's something you learn in pre-school.

anyway ash is right time to get back onto topic, i think a happy medium for PO and Single player would be, single player would a very simple version of busses and trains, Much like SC4, meaning you can just place buss stops and train station and you have not control over how they work, and PO they get the more advanced bus and train system like that MC are planning to release

[danny_1990 0]

I have just read this on the CitiesXL website.

Bus Introduction

December 2, 2009, 12:00 pm

After many months of development here comes the first mass transit system for Cities XL, which we will publish for Cities XL Planet members in upcoming days: the Bus.

===============================

http://www.citiesxl.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2633&Itemid=128

So the bus system is ONLY for PO people right? O_O

[Asheroo 53]

Once again, bus system still sounding great.

But yeah, at the moment, only for the Planet Offer. BUT.....MC are looking into releasing it for single player for a price, releasing content packs for single player at a price, they do really want to give it to us, but they are working out how it will work and so on. It may take some time though, but we shall get it eventually.

[DazzaDazza 29]

What's there to what out, they ether let sell it to single player or not, you're making excuses for them,

[zero7 68]

I'm looking forward to trying the buses.  Looks like you've got multiple routes and the simulation allows for sims to switch routes mid journey.  I'm interested to see how much it costs to run and at what population level it becomes available - given how much other services cost I'm a little worried that buses may not be something you can add early in your cities development.

[soltangris 42]

Hmmmmmm, mrdazza, I probably have left all this out from SC4 Then again I never used one of those BATs, LOTs, NAMs nad so on. They're probably what allows all that.

[soltangris 42]

Mrdazza, I didn't know all this. But then again I never used BAT's, LOTs, NAMs and all other custom made plug-ins, soI probably have missed a lot.

Still, I'm tempted to argue the matter that CXL/s system would allow zoning with different lots, as long as there ARE different lots (which they don' t have so far). But this is the subject of another discussion.

Going back to busses: finally a mass transport network is comming! Really looking forward to implement it in my cities. I also heard that trains will be developed along the same lines (with train routs, different types of trains), and if it's true, then we're in for a treat

[DazzaDazza 29]

zero7 makes a point, every thing in the game is so expensive, I hope it doesn't end up like highways where you can only build them when you have mega cash flow, when you look at it there should not be that much monthly expenses in up keeping a highway, all the cost should be in the building of it, on the other hand buss systems and even train systems would be very expensive to run. I hope MC finds a happy medium for all this, cash flow is the most import part of this game, if you consistently have to little of it, then it is hard to enjoy the game, but I guess if you have to much then it is too easy

soltangris @ I understand that different sized lots should and will be come available, I guess in my opinion they should have done a better job with zoning all together.

well I suggest when you have fished with CXL (witch may not be fore some time) you fire up SC4 and download some mods, it can be quite enjoyable, but I guess it comes down to what you like about city building game, fore me it is the end result and seeing how different types and styles of building work together creating grate looking cities. Traffic management and budgets don't really interest me that much, hence why I can live with out busses in CXL.

[cheuk18me94 0]

Everything will be good when they don't ban mod from single-player mod or expansion pack for single-player mod, but seem it is not possiblle for MC. EA can do it.

[ICFan 0]

I do not know if this was brought up, but I think for Mass Transit to work really well, we need some kind of income from the buses, trains etc. I think having the buses just be an expense, it will ruin cities that have a hardtime trying to have a steady income. But if we had a option to say put a set price on the buses like really cheap, something like 50 cents. Cities need another income besides taxes on this game and having some income from mass transit would do good.

[ScaryMonkey 0]

Originally posted by: mrdazza_460

zero7 makes a point, every thing in the game is so expensive, I hope it doesn't end up like highways where you can only build them when you have mega cash flow, when you look at it there should not be that much monthly expenses in up keeping a highway, all the cost should be in the building of it, on the other hand buss systems and even train systems would be very expensive to run. quote>

Actually it's the other way around;  Both highways and mass transit systems are expensive to build, but highways typically cost more on balance to maintain, because people aren't paying a fare to use them (some of the time, at least).  Subways and buses, on the other hand, mostly generate enough income to pay for their operations themselves.

[DazzaDazza 29]

you are right but i still think they are to expensive, they always seem to brake the bank when I use them, well at lest for single player, I guess there are more options to make money in PO so I can see how that many not be a issue there,

[bobrobertsnz 0]

I just found toothpastes blog on this topic, not only informative but amusing

http://citiesxl.se/

(also the first dot se site I can remember going to)... am glad the communities are getting active...

[DazzaDazza 29]

Nice article.

Have a look at this pic

  

I must say I am disappointed in this pic, look how the bus depot  and the road connects, oh wait it dissent, every one has to mount the side walk to get in there. The trouble is every thing ells looks good. the model looks grate the lot its self works,  but it is the first thing I notices when I saw the pic, disappointing,  its the little things, that make a game grate.     

 

[soltangris 42]

Oh, come on, it's not that bad. I've seen similar arrangements in real life bus terminals. Think of the sidewalk as the real boundary of the terminal, the road past it is an inner road. And try not to see the sidewalk cutting in front of the exit

[Sainty 0]

At least the lamp post isnt in the way ^^

[Ocram's Razr 963]

I wish that they brought back the elegant globular lamp posts from City Life.

[DazzaDazza 29]

Ha yah, you are right the lamp post isn't in the way, but I can see that being a problem down the track, even if it just crated an intersection, that would be better then what they have now

[bobrobertsnz 0]

well, buses are live in the second content pack.. lets hope they are great

http://www.citiesxl.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2707&Itemid=128

[danny_1990 0]

Originally posted by: bobrobertsnz

well, buses are live in the second content pack.. lets hope they are great

http://www.citiesxl.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2707&Itemid=128quote>

As I expected, mass transit is only for the PO players.

Nice job, MC.*

*notice the irony?

[ACEH 0]

I had a little tiny hope that MC will release the buses for Solo mode too.... But no, damn it.

[Stef42 0]

That is indeed a bit of a shame..

[soltangris 42]

Well, irony aside, I thought of posting some info that's gonna actually contribute to the relevance of the thread; namely, bus mechanics info. Most of you probably know all this already, but still....

1. Busses are found under roads/mass transport. The bus Headquarters is ALSO there, so don't look for it in other menus.

2. To set up working busses in your city, you first need to reach 50 000 population. Then, place the Headquarters (it costs about 2500/month to maintain). After that, terminals become available: small one (handles up to3 lines, 1000/month maintenance cost) and large one (up to 12 lines, 5000/mo)

3. To set up a line, you just need to place a terminal. After you've placed one, a line automatically starts and you can place the stops. You need to literally 'trace' the line over the road network, and place manually each stop. Bus lines can go on every type of road (including expressways and fast lanes), but you can't place stops on expressways and fast lanes, only on roads and avenues. Each consecutive stop is numbered, so you can keep track of them. Each line can have up to 40 stops (I've never reached that number yet, but that's what Mathew says). The stops are placed on the side of the road, and don't take up any additional space. During placement, you can see the area each stop could affect (a blue aura) - try to place the stops so that maximum number of buildings can use them. However, the fact that the stop had highlighted the area during placement doesn't mean that ALL the buildings there will actually use the bus line - this depends on many factors, including the full trajectory of the completed line. To end and validate the line, you need to trace it back to the original terminal (another one won't work), then just click on it.

4. To add additional lines to the same terminal, select a terminal from the menu and just place it over the existing one - another line will start and add to the lines already starting from this terminal.

5. You can select which type of busses will be used on each line - use the bus info screen and just click on one of the three bus types: minibus, normal bus and double-decker. Obviously, each bus has different capacity, with double deckers having the most space (and cost).

6. Each line costs your city money, an expense that is added to the maintenance cost of the terminal. The price depends on the type of bus used and number of stops per line. Currently, a line using normal busses with about 20 stops costs about 10 000. 

7. Bus info: they've added a new mass-transport tab on the top of the screen (right next to the resources tab) where you can find detailed info about the busses (and probably later about other mass transport as well). The panel shows number of terminals, all the lines, cost per line, line usage, and so on. It also lets you choose the type of bus to be used on each line. There's also a new mass-transport layer that shows you bus lines and bus traffic. 

8. Bus usage: the most important think to figure out, obviously. Busses cost you a LOT of money, but they can really relieve traffic on your streets! In order to achieve maximum efficiency, though, you have to place lines and stops carefully. Several thinks to consider:

- Unqualified and qualified workers tend to use busses the most. This means that they'll willingly walk some distance from home to get a bus, and also from the stop to their work. Executives will use the lines if the stops are close to home/work. Elites never use busses (according to my observations, and Mathew confirmed that).   

- The more people use a line, the more crowded it gets. You can keep track  of that in the bus info panel, and adjust the type of bus to be used accordingly. If a line reaches 100% capacity, you need to switch to a bigger bus for that line. On the other hand, if a line has about 20 - 30% usage, you can safely switch to a smaller bus. If you get less than 10% usage, you can as well rework that line, because it's almost useless.

- According to my observations, the most effective way to use busses is to create a line connecting residential districts with heavy/manufacturing industry. Those use a great deal of unqualified/qualified workers, and the line will jump to 100% usage in no time, relieving the traffic on the streets in the same time. Offices and high-tech use qualified and above, so it's not so beneficial to create lines exclusively going to office districts. If so, try to pass the line through as many residential areas as you can to get maximum coverage.

- The main benefit of busses is traffic relieve, so if you don't have many traffic problems, it's useless to place bus lines. Again, busses tend to be incredibly effective in cities with industry, and less effective in spread-out agricultural/office/holliday cities.

You can find out the exact buildings (residential or whatever) that use each line: just click on the terminal and select one of the lines (in the middle of the info panel). The line will light up and also the buildigns that are currently using the line. You'll notice that many times the actual usage doesn't have anything to do with the auras that you saw during stop placement, so don't be overconfident! Practice and you'll learn

This is just a starting list of observations. I've played with busses only about 3 hours, so feel free to correct/add to the list above. Thank you.

[MandelSoft 2,769]

Noticed too. Too bad, this will drop their reputation. We solo players have no Mass Transit. Can you PLEASE give us at least busses?

I hope I'm not talking to a wall (figurly speaking), but in my experience MC never listen and try to get me a PO subscribtion. I hate that marketing strategy, and the more they drag me to a subscription, the more I don't want to subscribe.

Best,

Maarten

[Stef42 0]

Some other details on the bus-system:

1.) When the average use of the bus is too low (like 20%) consider to switch to a lower capacity by using the minibus.

2.) If the average use is low, the dot wel turn red.. When the capacity use is high, like 70% this turns more to green..

Seems fairly clear to me that more passenger is better then a empty bus

[Mastaflex 0]

Busses = PO only? that is not something I wanted to read.

Question for those who may know:

If I buy a 1 month subscription only, will I be able to add busses to my solo cities and when the 1 month sub gets cancelled will I get to keep playing my solo city with busses. If all it takes is 6$ to get busses in my solo city, I will do it.

[Stef42 0]

Originally posted by: Mastaflex

Busses = PO only? that is not something I wanted to read.

Question for those who may know:

If I buy a 1 month subscription only, will I be able to add busses to my solo cities and when the 1 month sub gets cancelled will I get to keep playing my solo city with busses. If all it takes is 6$ to get busses in my solo city, I will do it.quote>

I'm sorry to say but that is not possible..

PO users can't use the buses in their SP city's either...