Mntoes - UK housing project

[mntoes 271]

Update

  The second house for lot one is now finished and set in place. I have some more details on the properties (climbing plants) but have removed these to get a quick preview shot.

Lot one with the second house

And form the side

(Now with the deviding fence in place.)

Not quite as much progress as I would have liked but I am trying to concentrate so much on good quality textures (Simfox) and this just eats time.

Dannibee Hope you like it so far I'll try and do some more this week as I am on holiday but at least it's taking shape now.

Regards

Mntoes

 

[Jack_wilds 550]

...'don't become weary in well doing...' as the textures do make the the bats-houses appear more "high $ or

[mightygoose 92]

they look spectacular... bravo sir

[ScaryMonkey 0]

Wow... just been looking through your work, mntoes, brilliant! Really brings me back to my school days

[thingfishs 417]

I love the double storey ones , really nice looking houses with lots of character. 

The roof of the one on the left looks particularly good.

The only minor thoughts I have are regarding the dividing fence, (what's it made from? it looks unusual to me) and the pavers on the right hand one (there is some repetition, especially from the profile view)

Great work, I will keep installing them as you keep releasing them.

[psander5 198]

This looks great! I like how you have most of the lot already made before you export. As an official hater of the Lot editor (it's not it, it's me), I can see the advantages of it. The texturing looks great. Perfectly scaled for the game as I see it.

thingfishs: I can assure you that fence isn't unusual I lived in a house with fencing just like that. It's cheap, cheerful and vernacular, meaning its quite common in most English suburbs. It's probably made of concrete - although I've seen posher versions using stone - and unpainted wooden slats. It looks to me exactly how that type of fencing should look.

[thingfishs 417]

I'm sure you're right, I've just never seen anything like it before. As for concrete walls painted orange? yuck

[Aaron Graham 4,417]

I love your houses, keep up the good work.

[Dannibee 138]

This is real good progress, thank you for building this house!

[mntoes 271]

Thanks all for your input.

Lol... concrete walls painted orange... no   These are ment to be wooden fence panels set into concrete fence posts. In the UK this is one of the most common types of fencing. If one of the panels breaks you simply remove it and slot in a new one (easy repair). They sometimes sit on top of congrete boards at the bottom to prevent rotting of the wood panel. Expensive to put up in the first place but very long term if you live in a windy place. 

  The fence panels come pre-soaked in wood preservative and are often very bright when new until the sun gets to fade them a bit. I think the colour is right as the textute is a google image of a fence panel. What I will have to do is tweak the saturation that gives the orange appearance.

I should have amended the texture in the first place (this is the one I used)

 Anyway thanks again, i'll make some changes.

Mntoes

[psander5 198]

I think the colour is spot on to be honest... in terms of realism anyway. It might help peoples eyes if you neutralised it a bit though. You could use a darker 'stained wood' texture instead. Most people cover these fences in a layer of Ronseal or something. Then you could age it a few years by desaturating it. It would stand out less then. I like it as it is though. If I look down my street I can see dozens of fences and sheds, and some of them are indeed that orange

[mntoes 271]

Thanks psander5  I kind of think some people have dificulty beleiving that they really are that bright to begin with.

Here I have de-saturated it a lot but I think I might have to go back the other way a bit?

Edit (picture removed from Photobucket by accident)

As they say "you can please some of the people some of the time.."

 Btw I have to agree with your aversion to the lot editor I am not at all fond of it myself. This method of batting is my way of having to use it as least as possible.

Thanks

Mike

[thingfishs 417]

yeah I think you have taken it too far, darken it up a bit.

I'm glad to hear that you don't have concrete fences painted orange As for the fence design described it sounds like a sensible approach, IKEA comes to home fencing.

Looking at the quality of your textures I'm sure I'm not telling you anything you don't know but just because something starts off as an image of the actual texture you are trying to recreate, doesn't mean it will ultimately look the most like it. With my winery that I've been working on I went through many versions, including a couple taken directly from the building I am recreating, before I finally found something suitable.

And don't worry about pleasing people too much, you certainly can't please them all, I'm just calling it as I see it.

Plus in terms of avoiding the LE I would recommend trying to create the entire ground level in photoshop, turning it into a ground prop and placing it in the LE. This way you can avoid using the LE for the grass/pavers etc as well, and only have to place some trees etc around.

[mntoes 271]

Replies

 Thanks thingfishs sounds like a good workaround using photoshop I might give it a go sometime.

Dannibee no problem I'm enjoying making it for you I only wish I had more time to work on it.

Aaron Graham Thanks.

Update

  This week I have been concentrating on one of the props for the first lot. I present what every good gardener should not be without. A greenhouse. I  got tired of using the Maxis greenhouse so decided to make one of my own. This of course can be changed to give me several versions( in time).

 Taken some time to make the tomato plants inside but I am happy with the overal look of it.

On with the work,

Mntoes.

[mightygoose 92]

that greenhouse is screaming to be a HD prop...

[thingfishs 417]

yeah I agree HD, but then maybe they're not tomato plants...

Nice greenhouse, I love props like this. 

[mntoes 271]

Replies

Thanks thingfishs & mightygoose. The lots will be in standard definition at first but I might go on to make a HD version if there is enough demand. thingfishs I wouldn't tell anyone if they wern't tomato plants now would I? ...lol

Update

Preliminary lotting for the first bat. Shown in standard definition but not yet quite ready as I have the stats to amend yet.

Front

Left

Right

Front Day

  I'm quite pleased with it but as always comments welcome. (although i'ts taken a long time to render so it would need to be a big change for me to render it again.)

Thanks

Mntoes

[mightygoose 92]

what is going on with the fences as the back of the first/last picture

[Dannibee 138]

You have really impressed me and I am very glad that you built this nice Suburban home. Can't wait to download!

[Aaron Graham 4,417]

Great Job!!!

[thingfishs 417]

looking great mntoes!

I agree with mightygoose re. the fence though, also the hedge in shot 3 doesn't match up too well. Is the problem the slightly undulating ground combined with props that aren't slope conforming? Or maybe props that haven't been centred properly in gmax? With the houses looking so good it would be a shame to let details like that detract from them. I assume you'll be able to avoid rendering the buildings again at least.

[mntoes 271]

Dannibee You are most welcome a little bit more work to do yet though.

Aaron Graham Thanks!

mightygoose & thingfishs I did notice this myself and wondered what was going on?. Taking a look at the lot editor everything seems to be ok though?

I've been back into the lot editor and moved the fences into the lot a slight bit more to see if this will help. They are standard Maxis props though so it's not as if It is any problem with my own props.

 I think thingfishs might have hit the nail on the head with the suggestion that the problem lies with the uneaven ground? I have seen this sort of thing before and thought it to be usual on uneaven ground. I have an idea for a fix but it could just make things look worse. I'll experiment a it.

Thanks for the input

Mntoes

Edit ok the fix didnt work. Gonna have to give this some more thought. Time for bed now though I'll sleep on it. 

[T Wrecks 10,210]

[GEEK ALERT - LENGTHY, BORING AND COMPLICATED TECH STUFF - GEEK ALERT]

There really is no workaround. Maxis set their fence props to "Conform to slope = yes", which means that they will adapt to any underlying slope (in contrast e.g. to trees, which will always grow vertical, disregarding lot topography).

While this looks ok-ish in some situations (see the slatted fence at the side of your lot), it looks awkward in others (see the fences at the back side of your lot). As long as the slope is parallel to the orientation of the fence, it's not that bad. However, when the slope is perpendicular to the fence, the fence ends up tilted to one side, which looks rather stupid. Finally, if the slope is diagonal to the fence, things can really become ugly.

You can also use (custom) fences that don't conform to slopes. These will always be perfectly horizontal, and they will touch the ground exactly in their middle. This means that the parts further down the slope will stick into the air, while the parts further up the slope will be buried in the ground.

One solution to minimise this effect is to use shorter props, e.g. fence sections of 4m width each. On a moderate slope, they will form a gentle "stair pattern" that won't look too bad.

The most important aspect, however, is that these fences will not look totally messed up when they run parallel to the slope.

As you see, there really is no perfect solution. In your particular case (as depicted on the screenshots), your best choice would be to stick with a slope-conforming fence at the sides of the lot, and pick a non-slope-conforming fence for the back of the lot.

PROBLEM: You cannot possibly know how a grown lot will be oriented towards the underlying terrain topography.

One solution to end these problems would, therefore, involve a modification of the foundation parameters of the lot. Lots can either use a building foundation, or a lot foundation.

With a building foundation, the lot itself will follow the terrain, but the building will be raised on a foundation if necessary. The delimitations of this foundation are determined by the outlines of the grey box that represents the building in the Lot Editor. This means that e.g. an L-shaped building will be put on a square foundation, and that the outlines of the foundation may not match the outlines of the building. This can look particularly stupid when the terrain slopes upward from the street - in such a case, the building entrance might end up raised 2m above the ground! The advantage is that the lot can conform to slopes. You can also BAT a custom foundation that will match your building precisely.

With a lot foundation, the entire lot is leveled if it's situated on a slope. This will ensure that there are no problems pertaining to slope-conforming props (don't we all know those Maxis pools that don't lose their water even when tilted to 45°?), but it may cause ugly walls between lots. Likewise, if the road in front of such lots is slightly sloped, the left front edge of the lot may be deeper than the road, whereas the right front edge might be higher - or vice versa, of course.

Probably the best bet is to adjust the lot in a way that it will stick to a building foundation as long as it's even or only mildly sloped, and switch to a lot foundation as soon as the slope exceeds a certain value. You can do so using the parameter "Max Slope before Lot Foundation". It defines when this switch from a building foundation to a lot foundation takes place.

While I'm at it, I might as well add that SC4Tool contains a visual help to select the lot retaining walls, should you choose to set your lot to using a lot foundation. These are the walls that will show around a lot.

[END OF GEEK STUFF]

Are you still awake? If so, I hope this was at least slightly helpful.

[HeXy 246]

These houses are wonderful, I'm really looking forward to their release, great effort

[mntoes 271]

T Wrecks      Wow ,thanks for the very thorough explanation. At first I thought you were refering to me as a geek....lol   but I soon realised that was not the case and you were giving me the wisdom of your expertise as indeed you have shared with many others. I had kind of come to the conclusion that I would have to go for shorter self made props but did not know what length to try. I will have to experiment more before I get brave and mess with the foundations.

Thanks again

HeXy  Thanks a little while yet before release but progress is being made.

Mntoes

[thingfishs 417]

and I will second that thanks T Wrecks, that's some very useful info. I've saved a copy for future reference. 

[mntoes 271]

Update

After some experimentation I have decided to go with a fence panel of 3 meters long.

Here it is shown in-game with varying degrees of slope.

As T Wrecks suggested you do get a bit of a stepped effect but I can only think of this as a rasonable compromise.

Before I go any further what do you think? Does this look ok? opinions please.

Thanks

Mntoes

[thingfishs 417]

I think it's a good compromise but I'll wait to hear from others in case it can be improved still. What I don't understand from that shot is why the orange section of fence on the left is stepped whereas the section on the right isn't at all. Is that purely because of the sharper incline?

Another non-fence related thought. I'm not a fan of those round balls of colour representing flowering bushes in the front yard. IMO these detract from the realism of the whole LOT. SG's mega pack 01 has a bunch of good flowering bushes, also MJB mega pack vol 01.

[psander5 198]

I think the fences are a lot better now. The stepping is actually quite realistic... that slope, however, isn't (although I did live on a steeper street in Sheffield once) I think that your new fences will be look fine on all but the most unrealistic slopes. I wonder if it's possible to have a 'foundation that continues underground and only emerges on slopes? Maybe someone knows. I don't know if regular props can have foundations, and it might be too much work for something that's supposed to be peripheral.

[T Wrecks 10,210]

Yup, I think psander5 has hit the nail on the head - the fences are fine, and if anybody grows houses on such a slope, it's his fault.

Foundations are most definitely possible, yes!

This counts both for actual buildings and for props. Since a custom building foundation could interfere with the automatic foundation assigned to the lot, though, it is probably recommendable to use an invisible dummy as "building" (in a technical sense, i.e. grey box in the LE window), and add the actual building as a prop. If you hide the invisible dummy under the prop that represents your building, the foundation of that dummy will be covered entirely.

All you need to do is to align the foundation prop under the object it is associated to.

If you need a more graphical example, download Cycledogg's 19th century tenements from the LEX - he made them slope-friendly by adding custom foundations. It's a great effect, and I love to use them on slopes, because they always look great. His Mega Prop pack Vol. 01 also contains some brick walls and street planters that come with matching foundations. Unfortunately, since I don't BAT myself, I'm not sure about the preconditions to be met before you have a foundation that will work as intended. I'm not sure whether you export it and mod it as a foundation using the Plugin Manager, or whether it's sufficient to make a model that's under the ground, and export it as a prop, sorry.