NAM General Discussion Thread

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

This may not be new, but I have a problem with Road Puzzle Pieces.

I get ##Interesection Placement String Missing## on the 17th tab for road puzzle pieces.

Should I redownload the package, or is there something I left out when installing?

[SimRabbit 48]

Today I installed the new Nam ( i had the dec version fromSC4D) today. Before i did the installation i unistall it from my plug in folder and after it, i installed the Nam in order. So now the problem was, avenue roundabouts, diagonal streets and draggable Grl didn't work or wern't working. The show up as blank lots, anything i can do??

Thanks in advice!!

[Skyfire2275 23]

N_O_Body and SimRabbit: You bot hhave the same problem. When you install the new NAM you must manually remove ALL OLD NAM files first. The new installer DOES NOT overwrite all of the old stuff due to the changes made to the core files of the NAM itself. So go back, delete ALL NAM related stuff and try again.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Skyfire:  Wrong!  I just went over my plugins from guzzle to zorch.  With the road puzzle pieces, if you tab 17 times, you get a missing item.  I loaded this version from SC4D, but it is missing from the STEX version too.

I uninstalled the whole NAM, I deleted the folder for it.  I ran Cleanitol, which didn't find anything.  I reinstalled the stex version, same problem.  I uninstalled this and installed the SC4D version.  Same problem.  In both cases I installed, also, the Essentials package from the STEx before my test.

Will now do a diff on the two install files, just to be sure they are the same.

Edit:  Both files are the same.

[ebina 4]

@N_O_Body: 18th item of Road Pieces is "Road over RHW". It's normal if you didn't install the RHW.

Maybe NAM's controller file is designed for full installation.

[Andreas Roth 607]

ebina is right, you get that error message because you installed the NAM Essentials. At the moment, those are only required if you also install the RHW Mod, since it contains an updated NAM Controller with RULs for the RHW stuff. If you don't need the RHW, don't install the NAM Essentials. But in any case, the missing item shouldn't harm your game. Just press TAB again to get the next working puzzle piece. If you don't install all NAM plugins (such as the GLR Mod, which now has been made optional), you might get those "missing item" messages as well, but they're simply telling you that one of the puzzle pieces is not available, because the resource files are not installed. This is a minor inconvenience, but due to the modular approach of the NAM, it's not possible to avoid it completely.

[JaxCoJazz 3]

Back when I had SC4 and the NAM (back before my hard drive self-destructed), I noticed that the automata never hung around. The cars would just appear and disappear within seconds. They'd never really stay put until they reached their destination. I've tried modding the automata life expectancy exemplars in both the SC1.dat and the NAM automata plugin files, but it had no effect. Can anyone help me out a bit? I want more realistic traffic that actually clogs the roads instead of just going *poof!* anytime it hits an intersection.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Thanks, gyys.  I just picked up RHW, and will put it in later on.  Hope this was, in fact, the problem.  I guess I didn't really understand that Essentials item  I thought it was harmless, but needed when...

Just a side note:  Isn't the NAM and its friends getting to be a little to complex?  Remember, we have kids on here who can't tell a keyboard from first base.

[Andreas Roth 607]

Originally posted by: N_O_Body

Just a side note:  Isn't the NAM and its friends getting to be a little to complex?  Remember, we have kids on here who can't tell a keyboard from first base.quote>

Well, the NAM surely has grown to a very complex mod, but that's understandable, considering the literally thousands add-ons and changes that were made to the original game files (just have a look at the history file in the readme for a list). The NAM and the RHW consist of about 20,000 individual files now (textures, 3D models, path files etc.), that 's a helluva lot.

Now even with the modular NAM you get maybe two dozen files at most as an end-user - can you imagine the pain that it gives the developers? They have to take care of 20,000 files with individual IDs, and no conflict in those must arise, otherwise the included items won't function properly anymore. The central RUL file has almost 24,000 lines now, and there are several files like this that have to be edited by hand whenever a new NAM item is created.

I won't recommend the NAM for the absolute beginner, who is already confused with the game itself. Once you mastered the vanilla game (without custom content), you can think of adding Lots, BATs and mods - and then you might know enought about it so you don't get confused entirely. As told many, many times, read the readme file - not only once, but twice or even three time, and try to understand what's written there.

I translated the whole readme to German, so I know it more or less by heart, that's why I can assure you that it's worth the effort. Before you start using the NAM items in the actual game, simply try to plop everything in an empty test city. That's what I did when I downloaded the NAM for the first time, and that's what I did whenever a new version came out. Get familiar with the items, and install the NAM to a blank plugin folder for this test, so you can be sure that no other mod is conflicting with it. Use this setup as a reference for possible problems that you might have with your actual playing folder.

Also, we can't make the NAM less complex. It used to be less complex in the past, but as you all know, whenever a new NAM was released, all other transit mods were rendered useless. The latest victim was the RHW, which had to be updated at least two or three times until everything was compatible with each other. But from now on, you will always know what the culprit is: The NAM Controller, that is contained in the NAM Essentials, is outdated, and you'll have to update it to the latest version.

The only requirement is that everyone who is creating new transit items that touch the RUL files that are contained in the NAM Controller will have to submit them to the NAM team, so the Controller can be updated, rather than creating yet another instance of these files that will cause countless problems all over again with a future NAM. All, and I mean every single problem that showed itself as "I have the new NAM installed, but this and that item seems to be missing/isn't working propery", is caused by such an incompatibility of the RUL files.

As you have seen, merging the functionality of all available transit mods in the NAM Controller might cause a "missing item" message now and then (or similar), but I'd say that's a small price that we have to pay rather than the continuing "It dosn't work at all" issues. Very soon, you will see the major advantages that the very complex, but yet flexible system will have.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Thanks, Andreas.  Most enlightening.

The problem I had with the road puzzle pieces was indeed related to the incorrect installation of essentials without RHW.  Working fine now, thanks to everyone who helped.

[Jazzmaster 716]

About the NAM; it's a known, docemented problem that puzzle pieces cause the game to crash, correct?  Is it just puzzle pieces, or has it happened with other things--turning lanes, draggable GLR, stuff like that?  Hasn't happened to me so far...

[jplumbley 5]

Originally posted by: Yoshiisland About the NAM; it's a known, docemented problem that puzzle pieces cause the game to crash, correct?  Is it just puzzle pieces, or has it happened with other things--turning lanes, draggable GLR, stuff like that?  Hasn't happened to me so far...quote>

 

The Crash to Desktop bug with the NAM is very well known.  It is created when a puzzle piece that you are about to plop comes in contact with another already plopped puzzle piece.  There is no way that is known to fix this issue.  I am not 100% sure but I think this includes Transit Enabled lots touch puzzle pieces.

This issue does not arise with the Turning lanes what so ever.  The turning lanes are a RUL override of the intersection, meaning they will override the intersection of that particular setup when drawn.

This issue can occur with Draggable GLR....  BUT, now listen closely! .... This has been greatly reduced in the amount of time is can occur.  Instead of having a line of puzzle pieces like you did previously with the GLR you now have 1 puzzle piece for a draggable section of the GLR.  Meaning, for the entire network of GLR you might have a few puzzles pieces plus however many stations you might have.  Where as before you had 1 puzzle piece for each piece of the entire network system.  Therefore the number of puzzle pieces have been greatly reduced and the chances of you using a puzzle pieces and while you are about to plop it you move over another puzzle piece causing a CTD are very much reduced.  I cannot promise it wont happen, but I promise it has been greatly reduced.

[Jazzmaster 716]

Okay, so when puzzle pieces and TE'd lots touch this crashes the game, got it. Are these the only known crash bugs or are there others?

[Jazzmaster 716]

Okay, so when puzzle pieces and TE'd lots or puzzle pieces and puzzle pieces touch it causes a crash, got it. Are these the only know "crash bugs" or are there others?

[jplumbley 5]

@yoshii To my knowledge it is the only known cause of CTD with the NAM, while playing.

[Jazzmaster 716]

Okay then, thanks!

[JaxCoJazz 3]

Originally posted by: JaxCoJazz Back when I had SC4 and the NAM (back before my hard drive self-destructed), I noticed that the automata never hung around. The cars would just appear and disappear within seconds. They'd never really stay put until they reached their destination. I've tried modding the automata life expectancy exemplars in both the SC1.dat and the NAM automata plugin files, but it had no effect. Can anyone help me out a bit? I want more realistic traffic that actually clogs the roads instead of just going *poof!* anytime it hits an intersection.quote>

It seems I just got ignored the first time around, so let me ask again. Can someone please answer my question?

[hawkpride147 1]

umm id you get the new NAM, it should make automata last much longer...as for making it to it's destination, it may be making it there...a theory has been posed by a member here that automata disappear when it reaches its destination, or if there are no more riders.

[JaxCoJazz 3]

Yes, I have the new NAM. Even in the middle of a road that has nothing along its length, cars would appear, drive a tile or two, then disappear.

[Jazzmaster 716]

Originally posted by: JaxCoJazz

Originally posted by: JaxCoJazz Back when I had SC4 and the NAM (back before my hard drive self-destructed), I noticed that the automata never hung around. The cars would just appear and disappear within seconds. They'd never really stay put until they reached their destination. I've tried modding the automata life expectancy exemplars in both the SC1.dat and the NAM automata plugin files, but it had no effect. Can anyone help me out a bit? I want more realistic traffic that actually clogs the roads instead of just going *poof!* anytime it hits an intersection.quote>

It seems I just got ignored the first time around, so let me ask again. Can someone please answer my question?quote>

 

There's lots on the STEX called "traffic generators" that generate mild or heavy traffic in your cities that doesn't disapear until about 20+ tiles.

[Swamper77 90]

Yoshi,

That's because they are scripted generators with a set time limit before they will "destroy" the automata that is produced by them. Such settings cannot be applied to the normal automata that appears as commuter traffic and such.

-Swamper77

[JaxCoJazz 3]

What if I created a mod of my own and changed the automata live expectancy values?

[Swamper77 90]

You can and see if it makes a difference. You will need one of the Automata files from the NAM to make such a mod.

-Swamper77

[Stardragon 4]

can some one please tell me where to find the draggable GLR OUTSIDE of the NAM? my version of the NAM is 2007 and is less than two months old from downloading.

[Swamper77 90]

Draggable GLR is a component of the NAM and requires the NAM to work. You won't find it outside of the NAM download. Uninstall the NAM and carefully review the options when installing the June 2007 NAM. There is an option to install the draggable GLR that you have to select during the install process.

-Swamper77

[JaxCoJazz 3]

Swamper,

I remember a trick from creating standalone mods. All it involves is just copying the specific exemplars the mod concerns itself with into a blank .dat. As far as I can tell, the "Vehicle Lifespan Range" exemplar (under General>Automata tuning>25 in simcity_1.dat) says how long cars live. Do you think that's enough, or is there more to the question than meets the eye?

And I do have the NAM automata files. The 24-hour automata one to be exact. If just the lifespan values aren't what I need to mod, you can tell me what all I need to fix in that file.

<EDIT>

I think I also need the "Max vehicles per second" and "Max vehicles" exemplars, but I'm not sure.

<EDIT>

[Swamper77 90]

Jax,

You will need the entire exemplar of the Automata Tuning file to make your changes. Just having the changed properties will not be enough.

The entries with numbers are called "properties" not "exemplars". Exemplars are what hold all the properties. Adjusting the "Vehicle Lifespan Range" should be enough to make them stay around longer. You can try modifying the "Max Vehicles Per Second" property as well. I've never determined the effects of adjusting that. The "Max Vehicles" property tells the game how many vehicles are allowed onscreen at once. I'm not sure if you need to edit the last two, but they may help make the vehicles stick around longer.

-Swamper77

[JaxCoJazz 3]

So, I actually have to make my changes in the NAM automata file?

[Swamper77 90]

Jax,

Either that, or make sure your file loads AFTER the one provided by the NAM.

-Swamper77

[ben_sb_vex 0]

Hey guys,

I installed the June 2007 update of the NAM today (a bit slow off the mark i know) as well as the Euro texture for the Rural Highway. I have encountered to issues:

Firstly, the game seems to randomly not recognise parts of my road network (specifically roads, not streets or avenues etc) and so i have all these 'no road access' bubble popping up above my buildings. The lack of recognition of the roads is confirmed when you show the 'traffic/congestion' overlay, which suddenly stops on the road areas where the game thinks there is no road access.

Secondly, when dragging out new roads, the game freezes from anywhere between 10 seconds and a minute, depending on what is created by dragging the road out (how many intersections it creates etc)

Neither of these problems occured before today, and they seem to be limited to my larger cities. Can anyone offer advice?

Cheers,

Ben