NAM General Discussion Thread

[Equinox 1,209]

I really like DuskTrooper's idea ... and Frogface's picture ... that looks really neat and useful too. However, I think that if you can't figure out how to navigate that then you're about as the Sims in terms of pathfinding ... unmodded, that is

[woodb3kmaster 342]

Re: momo's offset stack design, that's pretty much the way I'd hoped all the offset stacks had been designed. I wonder why Red hadn't designed it this way in the first place, but I'm not going to demand he change what he's already got going...

[frogface 352]

Date:6/17/2004 6:40:46 PM
Author:Equinox

I really like DuskTrooper's idea ... and Frogface's picture ... that looks really neat and useful too.  However, I think that if you can't figure out how to navigate that then you're about as the Sims in terms of pathfinding ... unmodded, that is

quote>

the magic roundabout may look confusing but actually driving through it is not bad,  suprising but true

[joexcooldude 1]

I have a few ideas for interchanges. One would be a semi-stack/cloverleaf. (diagram below is from www.kurumi.com )

 

I also have an idea for the SLR: A 3 tile wide, 8/10 lane wide highway. This could be higher capacity. Another idea i have is a draggable ramp tool, so the highway ramps would be somewhat like dragging roads. Please comment on the do-ability!

[frogface 352]

i tihnk it is might not be possible with 3 tile wide networks as the paths and stuff get insanely complicated, even for maxis

[Ryan B 35]

Wow - that'd be a good replacement for a regular cloverleaf!  I'd sure like to see it in SC4!

[Birdin 10]

1. The stack that i've seen in-game screenshots of, where the one highway splits to go above and below the other highway, isn't very elegant and wouldn't be able to support much transfer traffic in real life, due to the weave lanes.  Plus, left exits and entrances are considered unsafe. 

 

2. The standard stack interchanges -- the ones that look like the stack exhibited on Kurumi.com -- should be implimented in as many combos as possible: elev/elev, ground/ground, ground/elev, as well as diag/diag, str/str, and str/diag.  It's a very efficient interchange type, requires no weaving, and takes up less land area than a cloverleaf. 

 

3. A pedestrian mall network would be great -- especially if we could overcome the issue of getting pedestrians between the network and the lot without another network being required. 

 

4. A suggestion for elev/elev stack interchanges: take the highest flyover ramps and move them below the main freeway lanes.  If you can't drag roads/rails under there, you might as well use the space for the interchange.

 

5. How about an interchange between a ground highway and a road, where the highway goes over the road?  The onramps would stick to the ground the whole time.  This way, you could have a ground highway go from one hill to another, interchange with a road in the middle, and only have the ugly (and expensive) elevated section of highway where it is needed. 

 

6. Some kind of highway/highway interchange would be nice (probably a Y, but maybe a trumpet) that is set up for even distribution of traffic: that is, upon entering the interchange, the center of the 3 lanes would split, producing 2 2-lane ramps, one to each freeway exiting the interchange.  When 2 2-lane ramps converge to leave the interchange, the center lanes would merge. 

 

7. Another tip on designign stacks:  When you have a bridge over a bridge (over a bridge), try to combine your supports between multiple levels.  I'll try to get some kind of a diagram to show the concept i'm looking for.  Just because there are highway lanes below a ramp doesn't mean it's exempt from gravity and doesn't need support. 

 

That's all I can think of at this time.  Being stuck with dialup, and only being able to get online at night (so as not to tie up the phone line) it is *very* difficult to keep up with a project like this, where, as a roadgeek and a civil engineering student, I feel I should have a prominent consultant role.  I can, however, leave a bit of advice on interchange design, I suppose:

 

8. When thinking of interchanges to include, you'll find diagrams of the most common types at kurumi.com.  People may send pictures of their favorite complicated interchange that they drive through every day, but any uncommon interchange would have been designed specifically for one location and its needs, and it wouldn't make much sense to distribute them rather than more common types. 

[momo 1]

The stack below is what I really want to build but we would have to be able to have one-way highways so that we could have large divided highways with 6 lanes in each direction. The feeder lanes for this stack could all be two lanes instead of one. Compared to the standard cloverleaf it isn't that much bigger. The standard cloverleaf is 16x16 while this one is 22x22. Think of the amount of traffic it could handle! A BIG stack...

 

[frogface 352]

im not too sure on the possiblity of that last stack, i was under the impression you can only make these new interchanges fit onto a 16x16 space.

[Tropod 144]

Date:6/18/2004 6:15:42 AM
Author:frogface

im not too sure on the possiblity of that last stack, i was under the impression you can only make these new interchanges fit onto a 16x16 space.

quote>

Something like that wouldn't be possible really, unless of course it was done through the use of something like Puzzle Pieces, but even then there's little chance of it actually being do-able [properly].

 

And, onto something else...

Something old, something new, something borrowed, something......oh well get the drift.........here

[This is not photoshopped]

Preview Models for these need to be done, and the GroundHighway section there where it meets the Road needs to be changed too [don't know why Maxis made that different, as opposed to the Elevated Highway ones]. These will, just like the original ramps, need to be placed from the menu. The best thing about these particular ramps too, is that you won't need to demolish the whole thing if you decide later that you want to have the other side of the ramp next to it.

[gambit529 0]

those ground highway ramps are what im waiting for as i only use ground highways.

although i dont really use those too much. i basically use the t intersect as the main source for getting on and off the highway. i then drag an avenue off, and place a toll booth. any chance of getting a t-intersect with a single road coming out of it.


i like the look of this guy

[wicher 0]

Fantastic, those single onramps!

Well, this next one IS photoshopped:


This kind of onramp would be really useful te me. I don't see why there should be one tile between the highway and the adjacent road.

[SteveeD 3]

Hi Will this mod work with the Road Top MT mod or is Road Top Mt included in Network Addon mod? thanks Steve

[redlotus 16]

SteveeD:

The Road-Top Mass Transit modd is completely separate from this one.  You also shouldn't have any problems using both modds.

 

momo:  Nice looking interchange, but it won't work.  First of all, it's a bit too big.  If I'm counting the squares correctly, the whole thing is 22x14 tiles.  If you were to shrink it down a bit to get it smaller than 16x16, some of the ramps would have a fairly large slope (some of them over 25 degrees).

 

joexcooldude:  Interesting stack.  I tried to recreate it using GMAX and this is what I've got:

 

 

It's not incredibly pretty, but I suppose that it could work.  I also have a little bit of room still, since this one is still only 14x14 (14x12 if I took off the ends of the diagonal highway). 

 

This pic also shows the adjustments that I made to the height.  I reduced the it by about one third and increased the number of tiles for the up/down slopes of the blue highway.  Let me know if you guys think that this is enough.

 

ardecila:  Once you get the model to a point where your happy with it, you can send it to me at redlotus5(AT)sbcglobal.com

 

-red

[Tropod 144]

Ok; an update [for this thread only].

 

If you intend on downloading this, then at least know how [to read the instructions] to install it eh . I [& I doubt I'm the only one] am getting a little annoyed of people that just downloading this stuff, and not even bothering to read what's been said for installing it. Especially those who have/had been posting regarding double menu buttons. I had clearly stated that double menu buttons was a definate sign that there's another file present, that shouldn't be. So at least have the decency to read what's been said thanks.

Ok, with that out of the way.......

 

Before you use this file; remove the previous NetworkAddonMod.dat file. Also, for those of you that have the NoAutoPrompt.dat file, you will need to remove that too [the file below, by default, doesn't contain any AutoPrompting - the next main update will include a version that has autoprompting as well]. Then just place the unzipped file in the Plugins folder;

NetworkAddonMod_06.18.04_C.zip

 

I don't want to be reading posts regarding double/replicated Menu buttons. I certainly won't be replying to them. Follow the instructions, and you should not have any problems. If you do have any problems getting anything to work, then I would strongly suggest you take a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc look at your Plugins folders before even thinking about posting the problem here.

 

-Contains a fix for the New Orthogonal by diagonal Interchange [cheers Red ]

-Includes OneWayRoad Puzzle Pieces.

-Includes EDIT: Single-Sided Parallel Ramps - for both Elevated and Ground highway [but only when following the grid].

-Improved menu icons [thanks to Andreas Roth]

 

And there's probably some other stuff I'm forgetting. A menu icon is to be done still for the Parallel Ramps, so yes it is blank.

 

 

Just with the OneWayRoad Puzzle Pieces; an extended overpass must contain both an OFF Ending section and an ON Starting section, otherwise they won't work properly. These can also be used in conjunction with Avenue Puzzle Pieces, if used correctly.

 

Any bugs/comments etc, please post them thanks.

 

 

@SteveeD;

That particular file is actually a LOT, not a mod, so it should not conflict. But, it does sound like you may have one of the Mod files that does/might conflict with this stuff. So if you do have any trouble, just take any other files out [of the Plugins folder] in the first instance to help pin point the problem.

[SteveeD 3]

Hi Thanks for the quick response...ummm ...Ive not claimed to have a problem with conflicts...I have not installed this modd into my game yet and wanted to make sure there would be none hence my previous enquiry

I was about to edit my post to also ask if RalphNinjas Radical Ordinance might conflict ...he does have three options involving Transit in that mod and finally one last question...perhaps a dense one...which plugins folder is this mod preferred in...documents\simcity4\plugins or program files\maxis\simcity4\plugins?...I searched your installation instructions repeatedly and could not find direction...Perhaps I am going blind or getting stupider as time passes...I dunno Thanks Steve

[Tropod 144]

@SteveeD;

I don't mind being asked certain questions, if I know they're not exactly covered in the thread or the documentation [which it seems fails to say where any files should be placed exactly-I'll fix that].

Just put the file in the  ...documents\simcity4\plugins Folder.

The Radical Ordinance mods are ordinances. Nothing to do with this stuff [so they won't conflict].

[gambit529 0]

tropod (and maybe steveeD):::: i use the program files/maxis/sim city 4/plugins/ folder and i have no conflicts at all right now. i did but i fixd it after sorting through by date created.


maybe it doesnt matter which folder to use.

[xiziz 11]

Tropod, if im gettin this right, this latest beta dosnt have Auto-promt right? well i love this feature and would at the same time really want to be able to use the betas. will any future versions still have the auto-promt, or do i have to wait for the mainupdates just to use the original feature?

 

Oh and i love the work you have done with this mod, Sc4 wouldnt be the same without it.

 

Cheers

[Dexter 40]

Date:6/18/2004 1:09:06 PM
Author:wicher

Fantastic, those single onramps!

Well, this next one IS photoshopped:


This kind of onramp would be really useful te me. I don't see why there should be one tile between the highway and the adjacent road.

quote>

I like the look of your idea, but I think the exit lane on the highway should be longer, because otherwise traffic will pile up on the highway.

BTW, I live in England so the entry ramp is an exit ramp to me.

[Tropod 144]

@xiziz;

This update was just for this thread. So yes, the next Main update [to the Mods page] will contain an additional file for the auto-prompt.

 

@aerojad

Onewayroad versions of these are on the drawing board, along with a long list of other things.

[Ryan B 35]

Wow - I've been looking forward to these kinds of side ramps!  Good for my frontage road system.

[joexcooldude 1]

redlotus: That is a very nice interchange, although it would look better if it was slightly more spread out. However, I would like to know if it is possible to have that interchange as 2 straight roads (90 degree angle) than diagonal, like the diagram. I dont want to sound ignorant, as the diagonal interchange of that type is very nice and would still be great to see in the game, but I thought you would want to hear what I had to say, being honest.

tropod: Ahh, the half one-side ramp. Excellent!

[jondecker 0]

Maybee I missed it somewhere, but is the half ramp available as an off ramp on one side and an on ramp on the other? Some of the tollroads here in Central Florida are like that, there is an industrial complex in Orlando that can be accesed on regular roads from Brevard County{east of Orlando) but the Orlando way to get there requires you to get off of the B Line heading east to go to work and to get on the B Line heading west to go home. There is no entrance eastbound and no exit westbound. Forgive the typeing of this but it looks something like this..... \[]/ with \being westbound...[] being the tollway...and / being eastbound. If it is not available, can it be done????

[redlotus 16]

Date:6/18/2004 6:49:14 PM
Author:joexcooldude

redlotus: That is a very nice interchange, although it would look better if it was slightly more spread out. However, I would like to know if it is possible to have that interchange as 2 straight roads (90 degree angle) than diagonal, like the diagram. I dont want to sound ignorant, as the diagonal interchange of that type is very nice and would still be great to see in the game, but I thought you would want to hear what I had to say, being honest.

tropod: Ahh, the half one-side ramp. Excellent!

quote>

I would hardly say that you sound ignorant.  I also certainly want to hear what everyone has to say.  If I didn't, I wouldn't bother posting updates here.

I guess that there may have been a misunderstanding that I'd like to clear up right now.  I know that some of you are just itching for one interchange or another, but my goal for the first few is fairly set in stone.  This goal is to make new interchange combinations possible.  Unmodded, Rush Hour only really has two intersection types--the clovers and T-intersections.  This means that you can only have interchanges for two highways that are either both orthagonal or both diagonal.  If one of them is different from the other, all you get is a simple overpass.  In order to rectify this situation, I think that there are a couple of new 'needed' interchanges:  diag/orth (one of which is done) and Y-intersections.  Anything outside of these two is pretty much just a new look on the same basic interchanges that are already possible.  I will still get to them in time, but I want to get these new intersections (as well as a ground/elevated clover) into the game as soon as I possibly can.

If anyone has issue with this, please feel free to send me a PM.  If there is some sort of combination that I might be missing (not unlikely), please speak up.

Anyway, I'll get off my soapbox and let this thread get back to business.

-red

[joexcooldude 1]

I know I recently posted, but I have a concern over a conflict for the interchanges. I believe that one of the transit bugfixes (the one that includes the avenue-to-oneway intersection) is having a conflict. However, I need the avenue-to-oneway intersection, and they already exist in my city. Is there a way to patch this up in a new network addon or am I overreacting and there is no problem?

[redlotus 16]

Date:6/18/2004 9:21:29 PM
Author:joexcooldude

I know I recently posted, but I have a concern over a conflict for the interchanges. I believe that one of the transit bugfixes (the one that includes the avenue-to-oneway intersection) is having a conflict. However, I need the avenue-to-oneway intersection, and they already exist in my city. Is there a way to patch this up in a new network addon or am I overreacting and there is no problem?

quote>

If I'm understanding you correctly, you're still using the TransitBugFix_ExpandedOptions modd.  If this is true, then you don't need to keep the old modd.  All versions of the Network Add-on modd have included the Expanded Options set, including the avenue to one way conversion.

-red

[Ryan B 35]

Thanks for the update!

[aerojad 8]

Date: 6/18/2004 5:55:13 PM
Author:

@aerojad

Onewayroad versions of these are on the drawing board, along with a long list of other things.

quote>
Good to hear, because I'll have to rip up my cities near the freeways when it finally does come

[Tropod 144]

If you've found the menu button, it has info about how to use/access the different items;

 

So yes, it does contain both On/Off ramps. You just need to cycle through the Tab button, and use the Home/End key to rotate them.