China warns Taiwan over Independence

[BurroDiablo 222]

China has warned that Taiwan President Chen Shui-bian's government will pay a "dear price" if he continues moves towards independence for the island.

Jiang Enzhu, a parliament spokesman, said Beijing would "repulse" any pro-independence activities.

In a few weeks, Taiwan is due to hold a referendum on whether to apply to join the UN under the name Taiwan.

China considers Taiwan as part of its territory but the island has functioned independently for nearly 60 years.

Mr Jiang made the tough comments on Taiwan at a press conference outlining details for China's forthcoming legislative session.

"The attempts by the Chen Shui-bian authorities to push for a referendum on joining the UN under the name Taiwan is a... move towards 'de jure' independence for Taiwan," he said.

"If the Chen Shui-bian authorities should stubbornly continue down the path, they will surely pay a dear price."

He added that the referendum was tantamount to a referendum on Taiwanese independence.

Mr Jiang said China would pursue peaceful reunification between the two, but warned that there were other options available.

"We are fully prepared to repulse any adventurous activities aimed at Taiwan independence, and prevent anyone from separating Taiwan from China," he said.

China has previously threatened to attack the island - formally, and confusingly, known as the Republic of China - if it declares independence.

Taiwan has been self-governing since 1949, when the two sides split following a civil war in China.

But most countries officially recognise China's territorial claims over the island.

As well as holding a referendum later this month, Taiwan will also hold a presidential election.

The current president, independence-leaning Chen Shui-bian, will step down after eight years in office.quote>

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7276378.stm

[toxicpiano 125]

Didn't the US say they would defend Taiwan from any Chinese aggression?

[Simfan34 11]

WWIII? Hopefully not.

[BurroDiablo 222]

Originally posted by: toxicpiano Didn't the US say they would defend Taiwan from any Chinese aggression?quote>

I think Dubya did... the next Pres may have their work cut out for them given a military stand off betweent the 2 countries. China has about 300 Mid-Range Ballistic missiles along the Straight of Taiwan and they often hold military Naval exercises along the straight... so they are well equipted and pretty much geared up for a War with Taiwan... conventional or otherwise.

Of course, we all hope for a peaceful solution, but theres nothing stopping China from ending the Civil War once and for all given its military might.

[toxicpiano 125]

Originally posted by: El Burro

Originally posted by: toxicpiano Didn't the US say they would defend Taiwan from any Chinese aggression?quote>

I think Dubya did... the next Pres may have their work cut out for them given a military stand off betweent the 2 countries. China has about 300 Mid-Range Ballistic missiles along the Straight of Taiwan and they often hold military Naval exercises along the straight... so they are well equipted and pretty much geared up for a War with Taiwan... conventional or otherwise.

Of course, we all hope for a peaceful solution, but theres nothing stopping China from ending the Civil War once and for all given its military might.quote>

Dubya's got until next January so if the PRC goes crazy, then Bush could as well I guess.

[Yoman3 5]

Well currently PRC has no real capability to invade Taiwan. They don't have the capacity to mount an invasion of that size and keep and established beachhead. They could certainly damage Taiwan significantly though with missiles and aircraft strikes. But any amphibian invasion would likely be repulsed (repulsed being a strong, defendable beachhead is not established) by Taiwanese coastal defenses plus air and sea forces, though the battle would be quite bloody. Enter an American CVBG into the equation and it becomes even more complicated, though a CVBG could defeat the entire PRC Navy.

That being said, lets hope they aren't crazy enough to even launch a few strikes.

[spacemanspiff 0]

Taiwan is the real China. I would certainly hope the free world would come to the aid of a successful democratic government. Communist China should have never been given the seat in the UN without making a new one for Taiwan. Honestly, I think Taiwan should call China's bluff and stop allowing the communists to bully them.

[panthersimcity4 162]

China's dumb. The government that is... the people are nice, and I love Orange Chicken

[Duke87 1,070]

Well, for those of you who were saying Kosovo's independence would cause similar attempts- here you go.

If anything, Taiwan is more deserving of independence than Kosovo. Trouble is, China has the world's largest army... and nukes. Serbia doesn't have much of a military compared to the world's significant powers. So we need to tread much more lightly here because if we provoke any actual fighting, the results could be much more disastrous.

....although, given that China's economy is largely dependent on exporting crap to other countries- the US being the single largest of the buyers, we do have some significant leverage over them in that regard. Our involvement in a Taiwan/China conflict would likely mean some rather barren store shelves around here, though. Since while we're their largest buyer, they're also our largest source.

[BurroDiablo 222]

Originally posted by: spacemanspiff Taiwan is the real China. I would certainly hope the free world would come to the aid of a successful democratic government. quote>

China is China and Taiwan is Taiwan. Saying Taiwan is the real China is like saying Cheese is the real Milk.

Originally posted by: Yoman3 Well currently PRC has no real capability to invade Taiwan.quote>

Funny you should mention that -

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7276277.stm

Notice the quote

"China's limited military capability is solely for the purpose of safeguarding independence, sovereignty and territorial integrity, and does not pose a threat to any other country."quote>

China doesn't recognise Taiwan as and a seperate entity. To the Chinese, an invasion of Taiwan technically would constitute as an invasion since they have this deluded idea that Taiwan is a part of China.

Originally posted by: panthersimcity4 China's dumb. The government that is... quote>

Elaborate?

[patriots_1228 51]

If China invades Taiwan, the world is going to erupt into all out war.

America is first to jump in on taiwans side then (circle one) russia iran north korea libya etc. jumps in on chinas side, and before you know it, Jericho is no longer a fictious tv show.

[BurroDiablo 222]

I keep seeing Libya crop up these days... I just want to point out that Libya is by no means a threat to anything but your gas prices

[The Almighty Cheese Grater 0]

Originally posted by: El BurroChina is China and Taiwan is Taiwan. Saying Taiwan is the real China is like saying Cheese is the real Milk.quote>

Funny you should mention that.

[Haljackey 17,242]

Recalling from what I said from the A Venezuela/Colombia war brewing? article:

Well, a vision of WWIII with the "Axis of Evil" does sound a little, shall we say, possible?

-North Korea has proven it has nuclear weapons and can fire them short/medium range. This puts South Korea (short) and Japan (medium) at risk.

-Iran thinks its the #1 power in the world. I don't know what it can do, but they could cross the boarder into Iraq and fight the Americans there. Remember they control oil too.

-Cuba has a new leader. What will the new Castro do?

-Venezuela is now being quite aggressive, and controls oil like was mentioned.

-Libya has been quiet in the news, but who knows what they are doing with biological weapons? This could threaten Egypt and southern Europe.

-Saudi Arabia now not only controls a lot of oil, but a large and modern armed force. This could be a threat if put into action.

-China has the largest military force in the world, and countless resources at its disposal. If they support one or more of the nations above, this could easily turn into a global conflict.

Did I miss anything? I hope that a war doesn't happen because it could turn into something worse. quote>

---

Taiwan should be able to do this.  However, the consequences of their actions could provoke the Chinese forces into attacking them.  If the USA steps in to defend Taiwan, China may declare war on the USA and thus WWIII will begin right there,  no question.

Best,

-Haljackey

[ilikehotdogsalot 307]

What happened to this? :

[gabetx 1]

The world is just full with threats these days! I swear, nobody cant do anything without the chance of starting a war. I think WWIII is inevitable.

[Godzillaman 21]

Originally posted by: ilikehotdogsalot What happened to this? :

quote>

You made that in MS Paint yourself!?

[Duke87 1,070]

Originally posted by: Godzillaman

Originally posted by: ilikehotdogsalot What happened to this? :

http://www.nisbett.com/symbols/images/peace_4.jpg

quote>

You made that in MS Paint yourself!?quote>

Given that it's apparently hotlinked and not hosted on Imageshack or some such place, I doubt he made it. He probably Google image searched it. It's definitely MS Paint grade (and bad MS Paint at that. You can't draw straight lines?), but it gets the point across.

EDIT: Here's a cleaner one:

I made that in MS Paint myself. Cleaner and more eye pleasing, isn't it?

....okay, so I made the background transparent with GIMP but I drew it solely in MS Paint.

[TRNSTN 0]

Originally posted by: El Burro

Originally posted by: panthersimcity4 China's dumb. The government that is... quote>

Elaborate?quote>

I don't want to speak for panthersimcity4 but there are a few reasons why some individuals/ small groups in the Chinese government seem dumb.

The question I always like to ask is WHY-- Why does China the most populated and third largest country in the world need a tiny island?

Economically- Taiwan's GDP is about 14% of China's. That's not that great of a gain based on the fact that China's growth rate is at about 8~10% per year, they don't really need it seeing as they sacrifice a lot of things for the sake of money (environment, human rights, standard of living)

(These numbers are based off of calculations from the IMF listings on wikipedia for 2006)

Population- Uh just a little fun fact, Taiwan's population is about 1.7% of China's, no gains there. Plus if they did assimilate Taiwan you'll have a good 10~12 million people who are quite unhappy

Socially/ Politically- Sure the Nationalist/ Democratic ideals might be crushed, because the Communists won 50 years ago, but what the heck is the point? If this whole assimilation, bullying, outright stupidity by the Chinese government is over some dumb civil war that they did win over half a century ago, then tell me where is the reasoning behind that? I thought blunt brutality and show of power was a very primative notion that most of humanity left behind. There is no logical reasoning behind it.

If anything, Taiwan's long ago history of laying claim as the real China has all but evaporated. Does the PRC actually think that one Taiwan gains independence they will suddenly spring up and start spouitng B.S about how they should rightfully own China? It seems like China is just holding some 50 year old grudge. Like children who fought over a toy when they were kids, China beat up Taiwan got the toy and got to play with it for 50 years even though Taiwan brought the toy in the first place to the playground. Well, boo hoo Taiwan lost and went and got another one and went to play with the other kids, Taiwan got over it. But now, China's an old fart and he's trying to get the house, car and maybe even wife of Taiwan who has also grown up. Problem is Taiwan's been living it's own life for the past 50 years and doesn't give  damn what China thinks/ did, so why should China do the same for Taiwan?

[spacemanspiff 0]

That's exactly the case, TRNSTN, PRC is holding a grudge. Like most totalitarian regimes, they (the PRC) live in fear of their house of cards being toppled. Taiwan is a threat, in their eyes, because because they have pull with a great many people on the mainland. Taiwan is home to many Chinese activists that actively denounce the Communists. Tienanmen Square really shook up the Communists, and from their (PRC) point of view, all threats must be eliminated.

True, they have the largest military, but there are major issues dealing with control of that military. Communist China, by and large, is one of the most corrupt regions in the world. Certainly the most corrupt mega-power. Dynastic families have loads of power. Much of the inner workings are very feudal in nature. This is what has made Communist China such a backwater nation for so long. Some of that is changing, but there's still a long way to go, despite some outward appearances.

[skyliner22 16]

I sure hope its a bluff. Taiwan needs to be independent so it wouldn't be called ROC. But if China does strike, it will indeed be the begining of WWIII as Japan, maybe South Korea join forces with Taiwan along with probably NATO nations. Then the Communist nations, North Korea, Iran, not so much Russia etc. If this does happen I wonder if there will be a repeat of internment here in the US since there is a significant Chinese population in California, or has the government learned their lesson????

[xmike1991 2]

soo.........WWIII is happening basically.

America vs Middle East(iraq, iran, afghanistan)

Venezuela/Equador vs Columbia(it will happen, and it will be bad)

China vs taiwan

north korea vs the world (possibly)

The conflict in Israel/gaza strip.

just because its not bieng branded as a world war, doesnt mean it isnt one.

[Nerd_Guy 4]

Originally posted by: ilikehotdogsalot What happened to this? :

quote>

 

It was crushed by a tank....

Anyway, I am fairly certain that if China attempted to invade Taiwan, the United States would step in.  The United States could quite possibly destroy China with conventional weapons, but add that both sides have nuclear arms and that other countries would join China against America, and you have yourself a rather bad prediciment. 

IMHO, China needs to stfu and let Taiwan become independant.

[Voar Tok 4]

Originally posted by: El Burro

Originally posted by: spacemanspiff Taiwan is the real China. I would certainly hope the free world would come to the aid of a successful democratic government. quote>

China is China and Taiwan is Taiwan. Saying Taiwan is the real China is like saying Cheese is the real Milk.quote>

Depends on how you want to look at it.  The legitimate government of China moved to Taiwan after WWII to protect their safety.

[krbe 193]

Originally posted by: Voar Tok Depends on how you want to look at it.  The legitimate government of China moved to Taiwan after WWII to protect their safety.quote>

This is like saying that the whites are the legitimate government in (Soviet) Russia. Both of the regimes lost to communists. Stuff like that happens every once in a while.

[DarkEldar 6]

If a war was to happen between these two countries there would be a major conflict because a lot of countries believe Taiwan is apart of china and others don't.Where i am from (New Zealand) the government here would be in support of china because its our biggest exports market for meat which we don't want to lose, and i am sure it is for other countries not just us.

[sixers33 3]

Chinese seriously need to be threatened to give up Taiwan and Tibet. It's not theirs, it shouldn't ever be.

[belfastuniguy 18]

OMG some world events and people think we are about to enter WWIII........please....

China is going to do jack about Taiwan they wouldn't risk it and as others have menioned do not have the capability to even consider it...

[BurroDiablo 222]

Originally posted by: belfastuniguy OMG some world events and people think we are about to enter WWIII........please....

China is going to do jack about Taiwan they wouldn't risk it and as others have menioned do not have the capability to even consider it...quote>

Agreed... the end isn't nigh so everybody can come back out of their bomb shelters

Though, I feel China certainly does have the capabilities to strike Taiwan (although not without suffering some major losses), the threat of US intervention and the potential economical disaster that would follow is too much of a gamble to take.

[JanYpe 17]

Originally posted by: xmike1991 soo.........WWIII is happening basically.

America vs Middle East(iraq, iran, afghanistan)quote>

The short drive US forces took to Baghdad should show that, conventional war-wise, they're at the top of their game. Iraq isn't going to fight foreign powers any time soon, and Afghanistan barely has an army.

Venezuela/Equador vs Columbia(it will happen, and it will be bad)quote>

But not that bad, and not connected with the rest.

China vs taiwanquote>

Unlikely. This posturing has been going on Chiang Kai-Shek high tailed it to Taiwan.

north korea vs the world (possibly)quote>

North Korea isn't going to fight its way out of a paper bag.

The conflict in Israel/gaza strip.quote>

Has been going on for ages and isn't connected with the others.

just because its not bieng branded as a world war, doesnt mean it isnt one.quote>

It isn't one.