simmars-forum-threads Nuclear Power plant vs fusion power plant

[gamenomad 0]

I like the look of the martian nuclear power plant but these type nuclear reactor will not exist in the future I think.

It is another more advanced technology that consist make an artificial nuclear fusion like in the stars.Not like our actual reactor that use fission.These reactor really exist and was tested first time in China I think. Here a traducted text from french with a translator that explicate all that.

Nuclear fusion: the source of energy of stars

Nuclear fusion constitutes the mechanism at the origin of the radiation of stars and in particular of the Sun. Indeed, within stars, the light cores amalgamate and produce heavier cores. During this reaction of fusion, the mass of the produced core is lower than the sum of the masses of the light cores of origin. The difference in mass, under the terms of the famous relation of Einstein, E=mc2, is then converted into energy. One estimates thus that, in the Sun, not far from 600 million tons of hydrogen are transformed into 596 million tons of helium each second. The difference is then converted into energy and is at the origin of heat and the light which we receive.

Although the energy released by nuclear fusion is considerable, the reactions of fusion do not occur spontaneously, at least under the conditions of temperature and pressure to which we are accustomed. Thus, the probability of observing a reaction of fusion between two hydrogen cores on the surface of the ground is almost null. Indeed, to amalgamate, the cores, which are positively charged, must initially overcome their tendency natural to be pushed back. This is possible when the matter is under extreme conditions as in the middle of the Sun (enormous pressure and temperature of several million degrees).

How to domesticate nuclear fusion?

To produce on Earth of the conditions favourable with the realization of the reactions of fusion quickly constituted an important objective of research, taking into account the immense natural energy of this phenomenon and of the very great abundance of hydrogen. The bomb with hydrogen constituted the first “success” in this field. In this military application, the extreme conditions of temperature and pressure are obtained thanks to a starter made up of an atomic bomb of fission. Fortunately, the main part of current research follows a more peaceful approach, the purpose of which is to control the reactions of fusion and to domesticate the energy of fusion. Controlled nuclear fusion thus consists in trying to reproduce on Earth of the conditions making it possible to exploit in an industrial way this source of energy.

Under the conditions of temperature necessary to obtain nuclear fusion, that is to say several million degrees, the atoms are then separate in their fundamental components - positively charged electrons and cores - and form a hot gas called “plasma”. These temperatures exclude the use of a container to maintain plasma in a sufficiently small space so that a significant number of collisions between light cores gives place to reactions of fusion. The solution most often adopted then consists in subjecting plasma to an intense magnetic field of toroidal geometry (see opposite). The particles charged composing plasma then follow roughly the magnetic field and can explore only one limited part of space. This supports the collisions between the light cores while limiting the contact between the plasma and the walls of the engine. This technique is called the magnetic containment of plasma. The engines of fusion based on this approach are known under the name of tokamak and seem most promising today.

The researchers also realized that the probabilities of reaction of fusion between hydrogen cores were well too weak to consider the industrial exploitation of phenomena identical to those which occur in the middle of the Sun. On the other hand, other reactions, based on the same principle of fusion of light cores, are less difficult to realize. Thus, the reaction which seems most favorable in the tokamaks would be the fusion of a deuterium core and a tritium core. Deuterium and the tritium are two isotopes of hydrogen, i.e. elements whose cores of the atoms contain the same number of protons as hydrogen (only one) but not the same number of neutrons (for deuterium and two for tritium instead of zero for hydrogen). The result of this reaction is a helium core and a neutron.

The helium core being charged, it will be subjected to the magnetic field of tokamak and will remain thus confined in the enclosure of the engine. The collisions between the helium cores and other components of plasma should make it possible to maintain a temperature sufficiently high in the engine. The neutrons not being charge carrier electric will be insensitive with the magnetic field and will leave tokamak at very high speed. Their energy then will be recovered and transformed into heat which, in its turn, will be transformed into electricity.

Fusion: advantages of the nuclear power without its disadvantages

Fusion has three major advantages. Initially, it uses as combustible deuterium whose terrestrial reserves are almost inexhaustible and tritium relatively easy to produce; its industrial exploitation would thus make it possible to solve, for many millenia, the problems involved in our energy provisioning. Indeed, the figures are eloquent: the exploitation of a power station of 1000 MW based on the combustion of coal requires to burn not far from 3 million tons of coal per annum. With same power, a power station functioning on the principle of nuclear fusion would consume only one quarter of ton of a mixture based for half of deuterium and half of tritium. Whereas the effects related to fossile fuel combustion (coal and oil for example) are likely to deteriorate our living conditions in the long run, the development of a source of energy not producing any gas for purpose of greenhouse meets obviously a growing interest.

The second major advantage of fusion is without question safety inherent in this phenomenon. Initially, only the quantity of fuel necessary to the operation of the engine (hardly a few grams) is injected into the enclosure of tokamak. Thus, if the state of the engine deviated too much of the normal conditions of operating, it is very simple to quickly put it except service. In the same way, the accidental injection of undesirable elements (like air) in the enclosure, would stop the reactions of fusion immediately. In fact, the quantities of plasma which will be within the engine will be so weak that incident, such an improbable is it, could never involve a catastrophic event of the type of an explosion and would limit its effects to the outage of the engine.

More important perhaps is the relative cleanliness of nuclear fusion. Indeed, deuterium is an isotope which is in a natural state and in a considerable fraction in the hydrogen which constitutes water. Its production is thus easy and nonpolluting. The tritium, as for him, is a radioactive element. It is degraded by emitting energy radiations. However, its life time, i.e. the period during which it emits potentially dangerous radiations, is very short (about ten year). Moreover, the reaction of fusion does not generate, directly or indirectly, of radioactive by-products of long life times. The interactions between the fast neutrons which escape from the enclosure from the engine and the walls will generate certainly radioactive waste. In fact, a great part of tritium consumed in the engines of fusion could directly be produced by the interactions between these strongly energy neutrons and lithium constituting certain elements of the walls of the engine. Thus, the only radioactive fuel would be produced and consumed directly in the engine. Moreover, contrary to the radioactive waste related to the traditional power stations, those produced by fusion will have a life time runs. Their potential harmful effect could then easily be managed by a storage and a monitoring in the short or medium term. Thus waste of fusion will constitute neither a burden nor a danger to the generations which will follow us.

With when fusion?

Whereas the advantages related to the industrial exploitation of nuclear fusion are clear as well from the environmental point of view as strategic (the fuels are indeed accessible to all and in almost inexhaustible quantity), it seems natural to wonder about the reasons which make that this source of energy is not exploited yet today. The reasons are multiple.

Initially, the feasibility of the industrial exploitation of the nuclear fusion, although considered as acquired by many researchers, was not proven yet in experiments. Reactions of fusion were indeed produced in tokamaks. Thus, in 1997, European tokamak JET (located close to Oxford in England) managed to produce an energy of fusion of 16 MW. However, because of the reduced size of the current engines, the energy balance of these reactions does not allow their exploitation yet.

In addition, the construction of an engine of fusion producing sufficient energy is a difficult and expensive task. Thus, although the cost of fuels is very reasonable, the technical installations necessary to the construction and the exploitation of an engine of fusion imply very heavy investments. Moreover, current economic logic does not integrate (or very slightly) the costs related to the environmental impacts of the various sources of energy. This situation reveals, in an artificial way, the traditional means of energy production as being more competitive.

It seems nevertheless that technical and scientific progress as regards nuclear fusion, as well as the progressive exhaustion of the oil and coal reserves, will transform towards half of this century nuclear fusion into a viable energy option. Moreover, this option will guarantee an at the same time durable and respectful energy provisioning all environment.

One of the important stages in the development of our knowledge in fusion will be the construction, which should be decided soon, of tokamak able to produce an energy of fusion about 500MW: ITER (International Experimental Thermonuclear Reactor). This project, resulting from an international collaboration between the United States, Japan, Russia and Europe, should make it possible better and better to determine the constraints related to the exploitation on a large scale of the energy of fusion.

 

 Research in fusion: a European program in which the ULB takes part

The research carried out within the framework of controlled fusion has in particular as a task to describe the collective behavior of the electrons and the positively charged cores which constitute plasmas when those are subjected to strong magnetic fields. Complex phenomena of transport of matter and energy occur then within plasma. On the one hand, the collisions tend to make deviate the components of the plasma of the trajectories which one tries to impose to them (along the magnetic field). In addition, the extreme conditions necessary to obtain controlled fusion generate many instabilities leading to a turbulent state of plasma. Plasma is then in an apparently chaotic state difficult to describe and model. The dispersion of the plasma which accompanies this turbulent state limits the time of containment and, consequently, the performances of the engines. The richness and the complexity of the physical phenomena met within plasmas justified an active research with the ULB since the Sixties.

On the level of Europe, the coordination of research on controlled thermonuclear fusion started in 1957, with the creation of Euratom. Indeed, the Treaty of Rome assigns with Euratom all the activities related to the energy applications of the atom, being studied of the nuclear fusion controlled like with the applications touching to the radioisotopes. In Belgium, research on the magnetic containment of plasmas for the realization of controlled thermonuclear fusion is undertaken since 1969 within the framework of a contract of association Euratom - State Belgian. The unit of Statistical Physics and Plasmas of the ULB constitutes one of the three branches of this association with the Laboratory of Plasma physics of the Military Royal School and the Nuclear Center of Study of Mol.

A shema of a fusion reactor

Interior of a fusion reactor (The JET)

Exterior of a fusion reactor (The JET)

Hope this will help with the development and realism of SimMars.

Gamenomad

[gamenomad 0]

The goal of that is to say that we meaby will need another type of nuclear power plant. Not now but on Beta 3 or 4. I will try to make a BAT of the new power plant.

I like the BAT of simmars and i just want to help.I know there is job under all that.

Thanks

[renemone 15]

I will go to fusion power plant

renemone

[AndisArt 2,068]

Fusion power plant has been in the concept for SimMars (see SimMars concept sticky thread).

Thanks 4 the info this will be usefull.

[autoVino 26]

dang that thing is huge!

to add to what you said, I heard on discovery channel that Hydrogen fussion will release nuetrons (or something like that) that may quickly deteriate the inside of the chamber.  A better way was to use a helium isotope (that is unfortunatly very rare at earth, but is contained in great quantities on the moon) that doesn't release as many particles that deteriate the chamber... this is what I heard, dunno if it is ture or not.

(sorry for bad typing, I'm tiered after running 11k...)

[gamenomad 0]

Perfect.( All this info and image take 1 hour to find, So i am happy to know that she will be used)

[renemone 15]

you welcome

[gamenomad 0]

I downloaded all program i need to make the power plant. Just that make 10 months i dont used that.

[greenjinjo 0]

50 years ago they said we'd have fusion in 50 years. Now they say we'll have fusion in 50 years. In 50 years, they'll say we'll have fusion in 50 years.

If you need any input from the science side of fission or fusion reactors, let me know, I'm a graduate student studying nuclear engineering. I've actually had a class with the guy who designed part of the reactor in the top picture.

[mightygoose 92]

greenjinjo welcome to simtropolis, looks like you have been lurking for quite some time. it is quite amusing about fusion and its intractabiliy...

[greenjinjo 0]

Originally posted by: mightygoose greenjinjo welcome to simtropolis, looks like you have been lurking for quite some time.quote>

Haha yeah, I visited the site when I first played SimCity 4, I started playing again and remembered the SimMars project, so I figured I'd stop by to check the progress on it

Fusion will happen someday, but that day is still probably a ways off...

[gamenomad 0]

Its amazing. The guy has worked on the JET?

[ngeeves 5]

You might want to delete these before everyone else sees them. They know hydrogen fusion is fusion but as stated above ^^, its inefficient as it would deteriorate the interior.

[sim-Al2 4]

the magnetic field on mars means squat to the magnetic field produced. the field is produced by extremely powerful super-magnets and the field acts directly on the plasma inside the reactor,

it does not depend on the planet/vehicle it is on/in.

[TimeMaster 4]

ok... and i have bunny my youtube account. lol

[TimeMaster 4]

Then why did they say Fusion reactor then hydrogen power plant. And why would it deteriorate the interior?? You are weirder than me, ngeevse.

[borntoboogie 15]

I will try to explain... Hydrogen fusion plants use nuclear processes to produce energy. H + H = He is the basics. unfortunately this process creates a LOT of energy (its how the sun works) and so the heat would just melt any reactorquickly.

A Hydrogen plant jut burns Hydrogen, i.e. 2 H2 + O2 = 2 H2O to make energy.

that is the main difference in the two time master

[TimeMaster 4]

Oh, now i understand! So nuclear fusion is H + Extreme Heat + H = He = ALOT of energy and hydrogen is H + High Heat + O + O = H20 = alot of energy

[borntoboogie 15]

not really no...

Hydrogen power needs no 'high heat'.  A lit match could ignite a hydrogen explosion, so all that would be needed in the Hydrogen tank is a spark to create a reaction.

Fusion technically does not need high heat either but high kinetic energy (speed) of the particles or high pressure to allow them to fuse.  very high speed particles anbd high pressure will then produce the high heat due to friction and collisons with the surface of the container

[TimeMaster 4]

Ahem... I know what kinetic energy is it is using your potential to do action. Anyway... Ok i knew tha but i though it needed high heat to fuse with the oxygen.

Anyway... THANK-YOU!

[TimeMaster 4]

I love sim mars... why did it have to be abandoned... now there borntoboogie and warrior and thats all ive seen!

[Shoji_sim 9]

Fusion power plant image drawn by me.

Plop cost: $115,000

Monthly cost at 100% funding: 125,000

Air poll.:0 of 0 radii

Water poll.: 0 of 0 radii

Garbage: 25 of 0 radii

Radiation poll.: 3 of 2 radii

Flammibility: 90%

Wear-away rate: 0.5%/month

[captintanqueray 0]

timemaster - what you're looking for is electron sharing; hydrogen is a alkali metal in the group 1a of the periodic table, which means that it bonds readily with oxygen. they don't exist alone in nature (except in the interstellar medium) so on earth they're alway's paired (rember HONClBrIF from chem class?) as an isotope it can exist with a positive or negative charge, depending on the element it's bonded to (positive if with a halogen, negative if with a metal or metalloid. this is why hydrogen pairs so easily- ...

sorry...

hydrogen has 1 proton and 1 electron. He has 2 protons and 2 electrons. if you fuse 2 hydrogen atoms together then you get an element with 2 protons and 2 electrons, this is achieved this by slamming different H ions together, but the isotopes they're working with are limited. now, if you went to jupiter (which is right there next to mars ) and extracted some of that H3 from it's atmosphere, then we might have an easier solution. all we have to do is get a vacuum cleaner in jupiter's atmosphere and we've got it.

speaking of alkali metals, i wonder what would happen if you dropped some francium in water, if of course you prevented it from being exposed to Oxygen before it were exposed to the H2O. any ultra-nerds want to weigh in on that? do you think it would blow up the planet, or just the continent? and if one contained the vector of the explosion, would it hit light speed?

[TimeMaster 4]

Originally posted by: Shoji_sim Fusion power plant image drawn by me.

Plop cost: $115,000

Monthly cost at 100% funding: 125,000

Air poll.:0 of 0 radii

Water poll.: 0 of 0 radii

Garbage: 25 of 0 radii

Radiation poll.: 3 of 2 radii

Flammibility: 90%

Wear-away rate: 0.5%/monthquote>

Hey Shoji, I was thinking that everything is fine but the monthly cost shouldn't be that, maybe like $75,000 instead? I think your post would better of in the Mod Workshop so maybe you should repost it there? And captainqueray thanks and the reaction with water and francium is a giant explosion. just a few grains of it would blow up more than your house. -Time

[Shoji_sim 9]

Ok, but I can't bat so well

[TimeMaster 4]

Yes... Since have an idea (modd) give it to a BATer. Swat-Medic and the SCRT Team are interested in the project so maybe you could PM Swat.

[Ambrose C 0]

TimeMaster, you have a point. There are hydrogen power plants in simcity 4, aren't there? Maybe our sims have been to the moon!...

[JakeMD 107]

TimeMaster, you have a point. There are hydrogen power plants in simcity 4, aren't there? Maybe our sims have been to the moon!...quote>

There is one hydrogen powerplant in SimCity 4. IT takes a while to unlock it, but it supplies 50,000 megawatts /month for each powerstation. It is the cleanest and safest power supply.

[TimeMaster 4]

Thank-you. I haven't unlocked it without cheating lol.

[jon7985 3]

There are benefits to using Fisson reactors, namely the massive amount of heat created would assist in terraforming, dissipate that heat into the atmosphere. Not to mention Fusion dosen't yet work and may never work.