New info!

[edmonton_stinks 5]

Idea: Make an expansion pack for SCS that makes it like SC4 but with EVEN MORE added realism and better graphics than SC4.

However, if this is the only new version of Simcity that is released, I hope TM goes out of business for this. This new game appears to be for 7 year olds.

Well basically, we took Simcity, except got rid of all the realism, and got rid of zoning. This new thing is exactly like The Sims. We don't want another Sims game! WE WANT SIMCITY.

[ccecill 52]

Well guys, the game can change alot over time. SCS might be a completely different game when it comes out. Look at one of the first SC4 screenshots.

[Gman55 0]

The game is slated for a winter release. They'll have to bust ass or push back the release date. If Blizzard or a real gaming company were developing the game, I'd totally expect the latter. But about the only person who can push back an EA release date is Will Wright. EA has shown, time and time again, that they're willing to sell bug-filled, untested junk.

[confused04 14]

I must say that I've been trying desperately to keep an open mind, but I just can't anymore. You might say "we want to uncomplicate things and appeal to a larger audience." Thats fine! The example of tweaking the Sims to the Sims 2 to simplify the game works because they didn't change the premise of the game. You still run a family the same way in the Sims and the Sims 2. Changing it from a city simulator to a social simulator with a city twist is ruining the formula. I hope what they read here is a clear and resounding "No." I've never thought I'd say this, but I'd prefer this game to be canceled.

Why is SC4 being treated as if its hard... it isn't. What has REALLY changed since the original Simcity that everyone loved? You still need power, you still need zones, you still need police, fire, hospitals and airports. The hasn't changed in almost two decades...Did they not make money? People aren't stupid. There have been far more challenging and complicated games such that have done just fine without tweaking anything. These six social wealths or whatever are supposed to give you a certain "feel" to your city which I don't doubt that do... but if that just results in new props coming up, just like what SC4 did, then there's no improvement.

I'm trying my best to say "Its months/years away, they can improve it." But nothing short of an overhaul or restart will EVER convince me to buy SCS. If I did, I would have bought CityLife. On top of that, I don't appreciate being told basically "Sorry, but we don't want your business." They "respect" our decision, but "too bad" is what I'm getting out of it. Too bad, my 50 bucks are going to somewhere else. If this game comes out as is... SC4 will likely be the last true Simcity game. As I've said, everyone has the freedom to do as they please... I just have the freedom to hate it, trash it, or not buy it. I'm going to exercise that freedom.

Isn't plopping buildings the very micromanaging they are trying to avoid. You don't want us to micromanage but here we are... micromanaging which building gets placed where. I imagine that we'd have to micromanage where those buildings go and how much to place just so we can open up a good chunk of the 85% of the buildings. THATS the micromanaging I can't stand. Yes, SC4 had some tedious micromanaging elements. Like school zones. In real life, school zoning is not circular. One way to tweak that would be to "auto-zone" school districts. That way you just need to have enough schools instead of adjusting the slider for all 50 schools on a map. Thats the kinda thing they need to do for a true SC5 sequel. Buildings becoming redundant, insert a code that has a negative feedback input so we don't get 500 Wren insurances. I'd wait another 4 years for the Spore code to be used in SC5. Even if the gameplay for CityLife is ultimately different... plopping the same 500 buildings (or less) over and over and over again gets old and I'm not reserving 15 GB of hard drive space for even MORE plopable buildings. I've been supportive of keeping an open mind, but as each tid bit of information has come out, I can't... I'm done. If I was even remotely excited about SCS, I'd go out and buy CityLife RIGHT now.  I still haven't. I might go send my money over to Microsoft and buy their games.

What would I need to change my mind... I want more evidence that this isn't merely a clone.  Understandably, not everything can be spilled.  But there is a PR war being waged, fairly or not, and unfortunately, hardcore fans are leading the charge.  We need reassurances that SC isn't being thrown onto a game just so that we as "suckers" buy it.  Just as you don't want us to throw label's onto SCS and judge it unfairly, I don't want you to take our money for granted because it has Simcity in the title. 

[BurroDiablo 222]

Ccecil- Whoa... now thats what I call a contrast... I remember some old SC4 screenshots too, there was one where they first implemented the 'dilapidation' of buildings on some old SC3K buildings and it looked awful... but over time, they managed to tweak it to look a little more realistic.

I dearly hope SCsoc turns out alot better than everybody thinks, that may be an unlikely situation I theres hope yet for the game if they listen to our needs.

[BarbulaM1 38]

Originally posted by: confused04 I must say that I've been trying desperately to keep an open mind, but I just can't anymore. You might say "we want to uncomplicate things and appeal to a larger audience." Thats fine! The example of tweaking the Sims to the Sims 2 to simplify the game works because they didn't change the premise of the game. You still run a family the same way in the Sims and the Sims 2. Changing it from a city simulator to a social simulator with a city twist is ruining the formula. I hope what they read here is a clear and resounding "No." I've never thought I'd say this, but I'd prefer this game to be canceled.

Why is SC4 being treated as if its hard... it isn't. What has REALLY changed since the original Simcity that everyone loved? You still need power, you still need zones, you still need police, fire, hospitals and airports. The hasn't changed in almost two decades...Did they not make money? People aren't stupid. There have been far more challenging and complicated games such that have done just fine without tweaking anything. These six social wealths or whatever are supposed to give you a certain "feel" to your city which I don't doubt that do... but if that just results in new props coming up, just like what SC4 did, then there's no improvement.

I'm trying my best to say "Its months/years away, they can improve it." But nothing short of an overhaul or restart will EVER convince me to buy SCS. If I did, I would have bought CityLife. On top of that, I don't appreciate being told basically "Sorry, but we don't want your business." They "respect" our decision, but "too bad" is what I'm getting out of it. Too bad, my 50 bucks are going to somewhere else. If this game comes out as is... SC4 will likely be the last true Simcity game. As I've said, everyone has the freedom to do as they please... I just have the freedom to hate it, trash it, or not buy it. I'm going to exercise that freedom.

Isn't plopping buildings the very micromanaging they are trying to avoid. You don't want us to micromanage but here we are... micromanaging which building gets placed where. I imagine that we'd have to micromanage where those buildings go and how much to place just so we can open up a good chunk of the 85% of the buildings. THATS the micromanaging I can't stand. Yes, SC4 had some tedious micromanaging elements. Like school zones. In real life, school zoning is not circular. One way to tweak that would be to "auto-zone" school districts. That way you just need to have enough schools instead of adjusting the slider for all 50 schools on a map. Thats the kinda thing they need to do for a true SC5 sequel. Buildings becoming redundant, insert a code that has a negative feedback input so we don't get 500 Wren insurances. I'd wait another 4 years for the Spore code to be used in SC5. Even if the gameplay for CityLife is ultimately different... plopping the same 500 buildings (or less) over and over and over again gets old and I'm not reserving 15 GB of hard drive space for even MORE plopable buildings. I've been supportive of keeping an open mind, but as each tid bit of information has come out, I can't... I'm done. If I was even remotely excited about SCS, I'd go out and buy CityLife RIGHT now.  I still haven't. I might go send my money over to Microsoft and buy their games.

What would I need to change my mind... I want more evidence that this isn't merely a clone.  Understandably, not everything can be spilled.  But there is a PR war being waged, fairly or not, and unfortunately, hardcore fans are leading the charge.  We need reassurances that SC isn't being thrown onto a game just so that we as "suckers" buy it.  Just as you don't want us to throw label's onto SCS and judge it unfairly, I don't want you to take our money for granted because it has Simcity in the title. quote>

 

Very well stated. I have most of the same feelings, especialy the "they respect our decision, but too bad". It does seem like that, though they have "concidered" some of our sugestions, it's just their PR is not exactly been supurb about reflecting that they have respected, other than saying they do.

[schooner2 2]

What amazes me is that the people responsible for developing this game did not look at any fan sites for ideas. Imagine the kind of game this could have been if they kept their eyes on ST and the other game sites? If they only paid attention to what the fans and supporters of SC4 have been saying and looking at the marvelous BATs and Mods, they could have put together a masteful new verison of SC. Yet, it appears that Simtropolis and the other game sites were just ignored when it came time to develop this new game. What a shame that is!!

[the olive 0]

oh boy, this is looking bad, at least we don't have to wait for anything, we can focus on simcity 4. There is so much content here, and support and anything you want, it looks like we DON"T have to start over, we can just keep all this and expand.

I am the Mayor, I worry about water and power and where businesses are alowed to build, (the way they want) and I have a budget to balance, I don't care about the cultre of my population thats for them to worry about, my job is to make sure they don't die because they have no jobs, no money and eventually no food, thats my job.

[MINIggy03 227]

They should give us SC4.5...like Rollercoaster Tycoon 2

Looks like I'll be buying the Simtropolis DVD's soon.  I've been wanting to get them for a while, but was holding back because I felt SC5 was due soon(was expecting it at E3 this year)...

but now that I know my dreams of a SC5 are over, I shall be playing SC4 for another 5 years...not that I mind, because SC4 is a brilliant, deep, DEEP game. 

[Pepper 15]

I... wow. This sounds really, really bad. Reading more information about this game is making me feel worse. I generally try to keep an open mind about changes like these, but this just isn't looking good. I am feeling less inclined than ever to buy it.

I'm afraid it's going to become some crappy, lowest-common-denominator game designed to appeal to Sims fans, where they can put their Sims in SCS, and for the rest of us it just won't be anything we'd want to play.

I'm not swearing it off yet, but I definitely won't be running out to buy this game immediately after it's released. Sad it's come to this...

"If it's broken, just let it sit there, and if it's not broken, let's find some way to mess it up"

[ccecill 52]

I am the Mayor, I worry about water and power and where businesses are alowed to build, (the way they want) and I have a budget to balance, I don't care about the cultre of my population thats for them to worry about, my job is to make sure they don't die because they have no jobs, no money and eventually no food, thats my job.quote>

Hell yeah. I'm gonna post that over at Tilted Mill.

[simwithoutacause 0]

We should make a petition. Will it accomplish anything? Probably not, but given the amount of support for SC and the sheer hatred of the 'new direction for toddlers', I think we should tally everyone who wants TMill/EA to change their direction. That is, if they are willing to listen to us, the COMSUMER.

[offspring_dude01 0]

If you guys actually want change, sitting around doing internet-based stuff won't work. The only thing you could really do, aside from direct action campaigning (Which I've never seen anyone except the most hardcore of gamers pull off), is not buy the game. The amount of people that will inevitably relent and go 'Oh well I'll give it a shot' mean that this probably won't happen... it's not a dig at Tilted Mill, it's just saying 'This isn't what I expect of Simcity'. Maybe one day another developer will pick up where they left off and give us a proper urban simulator.

Look what happened with Championship Manager when the new guys took over... the old development team jumped ship to another publisher and gave us Football Manager. Football Manager sells by the bucketload, it's old namesake is a complete disaster.

[Eastwinn 6]

Now it seems as if it is a completely different game; not a sequeal of SC4. IMO taking out zoning was taking it too far. I can understand power grids and pipelines and I can live without them but plopping buildings removes all the challenge that I played the game for. I might not buy the game now. I was excited for full 3-D and had no rants about graphics (except the roads) but I exepcted SCS to just be a 3-D versoin of SC4 with some new features sprinkled in. Too bad then.

[Cleaner475 150]

I am so hesistant now - I don't know what to think - To be honest thery should have just made another expansion pack for SC4!

[patriots_1228 51]

guys i got sc4 when i was.....hmm......11 i think. i understood it the minute i started playing. ITS NOT HARD!!

but wow...sc4 was an ugly baby.

[BEK1 30]

The more I look at this, the more disappointed I become. Firstly, how could Will Wright and the developers say that they are taking the game back to its roots? That statement indicates that the developers have completely lost touch with SimCity. The people at TM need to go pull a copy of SC Classic out and play it for about 5 minutes. Only then will they understand the basics. Zoning was the central feature of SimCity. Laying power and water grids was part and parcel of that process. Where was the society and culture stuff in Simcity: non-existent. They attempted to mix society and city building in SC4 and it has been soundly rejected by the SC4 community.

Secondly, EA and TM seem to be making the same mistake that Nintendo made with the Nintendo 64. They did not realise that age demographic is not static. The game playing population is not mainly 12-16 year olds. The people, like me, who played SC Classic and SC2K as a teen continue to play games even in my 20s and beyond. There are many in their 30's and beyond who enjoy a good game. Nintendo's failure to do this cost them the previous market dominance they had with Super Nintendo and I feel that EA and TM are making the same costly mistake with SimCity.

Thirdly, SimCity always appealed to a specific audience. It appealed to people who wanted a complex and open ended game that could consistently present them with new challenges. The SC playing audience has always been "mature" regardless of their actual age. SC2K really put Maxis on the map and established it as a serious game company. Was SC2K an easy game? In some ways it has the most realism. You had the power to set individual industry tax, you had a floating bond rate which went up or down depending on your economy, and you had the most complete city ordinance list of any of the games. Many in our community wish for that level of realism to return to the game. SC3K abandoned some of this but the core SC elements were still there. You had advisors, zoning, power, and a focus on building up the city, not running around trying to see who a particular sim was dating. SC4 was simplified in some ways but the custom content by people in the ST community has put a great deal of complexity into the game. Has it turned people off? HELL NO! It has been greeted with cheers and the ST community has continued to expand 4 years after SC4's release.

Many of the games that were launched in the same period as SC2K have been superseded or challenged by better rivals. Remember Doom and Duke Nukem? They have given way to games such as Halo and Counterstrike and Doom is a relic of its time. SC has been challenged by other wannabe games like City Life and they have failed because the fan base of SC wants a complex game that isn't dumbed down to please everyone. That fan base is loyal and and supportive to the max. The only other game I can think of with that level of loyalty is the Civilization series. Someone earlier stated that EA may have reached the point where they felt there wasn't much they could add. Lies! Look at the NAM. The brilliant contributors have added, High-speed rail, a better commute system, curved streets, interchanges, tunnels, etc. EA could have done quite a bit of this and made money off of it. If they had released an expansion pack that contained the upgrades that ST members have come up with I would have grumbled that EA could have done this at first. I would have thought EA is trying to take shake me down for money but I would have bought it anyways because its good stuff.

In short, we are a passionate and loyal community. There will be many SC players that will buy SCS in the vain hope that it is not the emasculation of SC that it appears to be. That is a testament to the brand loyalty that the SC name has built up. However, we are also a smart and critical community. Telling us we need a simpler game so that anyone can play it will only destroy the game. The newcomers will be bored and tire of the game quickly, a la CityLife. The SC veterans will stick to SC4 and hang their heads in shame at the destruction of one of the most important games of all time and hope that another company will realise that there is a market for complex, open ended, city planning games.

[Albatross Domain 2]

Originally posted by: JSNK000 "Focus on Obedience, for example, and your buildings will start automatically adding security cameras to monitor your citizens' movements, Orwellian-style."

Niiiiiiiiiiiiice. Gosh darn something be too hard but lets condition the masses to accept Big Brother! Call me an Art Bell conspiracy geek if you like but this does not sit well with me.

They are saying the people are too dumb to figure out zones and water pipes but to have security cameras and spying is just fine? quote>

How about this for irony... most folks older than say 25, at one time read "1984" (One of the most important books in literature history and print for all that matter.) Think about it.. whats happening to American Society? (I know I may get off subject here, so bare with me.) Many of our rights that was taught to most of us in High School Civics Class, are being sent thru the shredder. Ok maybe adding a few cameras here and there to keep an eye on traffic is fine--- but why would we need to have a constant eye on our population? TM has made this "new" game to say its "....ok to spy on your neighbor, and tell them to report anything "they" may think as skateboarding as bad influence on society-- bc its not what the majority wants.

what happens if you have too many cameras poking around in your life? Anyone see "The Truman Show"?

[Kevin 101]

Originally posted by: ccecill Well guys, the game can change alot over time. SCS might be a completely different game when it comes out. Look at one of the first SC4 screenshots.

quote>

Wow... just... wow... That looks horrible compared to what we have now! Look at those roads!

I'd say its perfectly reasonable to assume that SCS will make such a big leap from beta (or whatever it is now) to final release.

[MedoPu 0]

What's so hard about laying some pipes, i don't understand

[LivingInThePast 364]

@ ccecil: Hey! I've seen those! I've always assumed they were fan mock-ups or something! I don't think they are real.

[ccecill 52]

not gonna get dissapointed yet...

[joexcooldude 1]

Ahh...let me add in my 2 cents...

    The way I see it, it was inevitable that the next SimCity was going to be less complex than SC4, as SC4 was getting hard for many players to play. I also did expect a full 3d game, with initial graphics that make my camera phone pics look like picasso. What many people at these forums were pushing for was unreasonable simply due to the initial complexity of a several times more extensive version of SC4. That said, however, SimCity Societies is not a SimCity game.

    From the original SimCity (which I still have, mind you), the focus of the game was to plan the city with services, and then let the zoning grow. I was incredibly satisfied when SC4 came out, as things such as individual streets made it far more superior. I was also among those who did not portake in the trend of plopping my downtowns, as many at ST have become accustomed too. In my opinion, plopping is like cheating and is very boring. Although the aforementioned is true, the main reason behind my insistance on zoning and growing is the whole city-building theory.

    Each city I make, I think of a story to go along with it. Many of us do; just look at the city journal section of ST. When we zone, we make this story go into motion. The city doesnt start out with massive towers that seem to come from the movies; no, it starts out with quaint shops and small houses and independent farms. Journals such as Digby, for example, have remained this way. All of this is a testament to SC4, as the balance of complexity allows for everyone to find their own playing style. My style, for example, has shifted from making midsized cities into making complete regions/nations. However, I (and im sure many others) are beginning to run into problems on the continueance of SC4.

    Over the past 2 years (which I believe was my absence from this community), I have played very casually; after breakups or long weeks of school I would start up the ol' SC4 and play on my Puerto Rico region. Time, however, has not treated my game very well: my version of SC4 is no longer playable due to a recent fault which does not allow any residences to find jobs. To make matters worse, I no longer have the disc cover for my original disc and cannot reinstall the game either. Basically as I was giving up SC4, word of the next SimCity installment came out.

    I probably never held the hopes that most of you here had for the next SC game; I didnt want to manage the school lunch system or get far more complex than the SC4 system (if it aint broke, dont fix it). What I did expect was full 3d, transportation addons on par with that of the NAM, and of course the basic SimCity spirit of city-building. But, as SCS was announced, I came to find out that the most basic pillar of SC, growing cities, would cease to exist.

    The 3d graphics does not cause much harm. Neither does the different city moods based on being mayor (I kind of expected these). However, taking away zoning takes away the entire base of SimCity; the reason why most of us play and the reason why SimCity has been globally used for city planning. I hope that Tilted Mill changes this; it would not be incredibly hard to do and most of the SC community would be willing to wait a few more months to get back the whole premise of the SC series. I dont want to be a naysayer, but I highly doubt this will happen.

    SCS, in its current form, will not be something I will buy. Although I do not expect it to do poorly initially, I find it hard to imagine something as tedious yet unimaginative as it retaining much value of the long-term. Simply put, this post is basically my withdrawal from the SC community. The greater shame is that many in the same position as myself will be forced to do the same over the next months. I thank the ST community for extending the life of SC4; I think those in charge of the SC series owe many of you great respect for all you have done for their job security. However, as many lose function of their SC4 game (as this does happen eventually to most games), there is simply nothing that can be done except to move on. Although I dont want this, as I truly like SimCity above any other game series on the market, this is the end of an era and there is little I can do but to support those who hold out. Good luck on ST1000 or SC4.5 or any home-grown expansion of the series, I hope I will be able to return again soon for good news but I remain doubtful.

[naufragus 0]

Originally posted by: edd17 Its kind of hard not to blame them, they say that they will be listening to us but they have reached a point in development where they probably cannot change much of what they have already done. If they had tried to find out what people wanted for the new game before this stage then we would have little to complain about. If they had looked at any SimCity fansite, they could have found any number of discussions about what people did and did not want.

I can understand that they may have been under instructions from EA about how the game had to be simpler; but all this talk about working closely with fans and at the same time announcing that power and water grids, individual building funding and zoning (zoning and road building could be considered to be the basis of SimCity itself, they are the first things you think about when you start a city) will no longer be a part of the game, makes it seem like they have made what they wanted and that's how the new game is going to be.quote>

 

I diverge a little.  I played A LOT and I mean A LOT of games last year and rediscovered SC4.  I never knew all this custom content was out there.  SInce then Its become a hobby. And I can say most other games are a pale comparison

I did want to see a cultural/societal aspect added.  I thought it was the one thing that was missing.  The only thing I liked about CIty Life was trying to attract certain types to move in.  You know in SC4 the SIms really didnt care if there where theatres or bars or restaraunts or evena  beauty shop.  All they wanted were parks and low taxes.  I liked how in City Life I could effect what an area of town was like and became by adding bowling alleys or trendy clubs.  Now thats about the only thing I like about CL. I wanted to be able to create a working class suburb or gated country club community by doing more than just changing taxes. So to me there was a diminsion lacking in the Sim series.  

I didnt want what TM is building though.  What I had expected was professional developers with access to the source code to fill in the gaps we couldnt.  Add more regional dynamics inter-city interaction. And maybe break down the RCI Categories a little more

Spore sounds like it will have some of the other things I was expecting.

[Braxton 0]

Originally posted by: ccecill Well guys, the game can change alot over time. SCS might be a completely different game when it comes out. Look at one of the first SC4 screenshots.

quote>

I went to Gamespot and looked at the early SC4 screens.  There are others there that are more detailed than this one that were added the same day as this one.  One to thing to remember is that this screen was posted on Apr 29, 2002.  That's about 8-9 months before the actual release of the game.  As we can see, the game was known about at least a year before the release so the game was already in development for a while by the time this screen was released.  The screens we're seeing for SCS have just been posted for the first time, along with actual news of the game, 6-7 months before the game is to be released.  When you look at those other screens you can see more detail was added but everything was pretty much the same and set by this point.

[warrior 169]

Posted by edmonton_stinks: Idea: Make an expansion pack for SCS that makes it like SC4 but with EVEN MORE added realism and better graphics than SC4. quote>

Very Very Very good idea, that would give the people an option whether they want a so called complicated game or an easy game, but of course it won't happen as EA will think only a couple (at least150000) of people will buy it.