Mexico and United States

[BarbulaM1 38]

The comment was deleted some time ago, you can go on topic now please, if you notice the comment is not there. I ask people to not be racist here, jokes are fine but I will not tolerate racial slurs in the forums I moderate nor with the Simtropolis administration.

Stay On Topic, and try and be serious. If you have something to say make it meaningful, and informative.

[smartlake 0]

Could that map be any more racist?  I must have forgotten about the thriving economy of Russian and how comfortably they live...Oh, and Bosnia and the Ukraine...silly me...

That map is disgustingly racist...all the "more developed" countries are majority white!  What about South Korea?  Hong Kong? Singapore?  Argentina?  Chile? Uraguay? the Bahamas?  I know that most of the countries I listed don't live as comfortable as the US or Canada or Sweden, but their incomes are higher than a lot of Eastern Europe countries.  Albania  comes to mind...

[JanYpe 17]

Did you read the previous page? It's an inaccurate and misleading map, sure. But the grey areas all have older heavy industry, while the economic boom in Asia is much more recent. Similarly, South American nations haven't developed along the same lines as Europe/America/Japan. The map itself isn't racist.

[Stratosphere_2020. 0]

The term third World country is wrong, it should be developing countries.

[josefmayor 8]

The reason America has factories in China is because taxes are very low, and we keep their people off the streets, so its a win-win, american companies will get tax breaks from China and won't have to pay American taxes or tariffs, downside, American jobs are moving there, making America a white collar dominated economy.

To say that America is a 1st World Country is inaccurate, there are parts that are 1st world but lets think in terms of cities.

Would you say that Monrovia in Liberia is a 3rd world city/country?

Well wouldn't you also say that Camden New Jersey is a 3rd world city?

Have you ever seen pictures of these places?

They are far worse than some of Mexico.

Example here of Camden, NJ.

Compare to Monrovia

I don't have any pictures of my home town, but back in the 90's it was REALLY bad.

These are just some examples of why only certaint parts of the country/city is 1st World Country.

EDIT: Here are some more ghettos

St. Louis.

So to reinterate to say Mexico as a whole is 3rd world is completly inaccurate. Look at Mexico City.

[debussyman 1,349]

You can't deny that one of the main reasons Mexico hasn't been able to grow is because US has been sticking it's nose into mexican politics since it's indepandence, took half of our territory and then forced a president to help it invade the country (obviously not one of our best men) all on the name of US' Holy "expansionist policy". Add to that the corruption of the government and the segregation of the people and that's the perfect recipy for a faliure country.

[hamsterTK 93]

Josefmayor, everyone knows every place has slums....

anyways, those terms originally came about in the cold war. "Third world" refered to poor underdeveloped countries which had little influence on the world stage and therefore were not aligned with either the US or Soviets hence the "3rd world"

The US obviously is a first world nation regardless of slums because it both highly developed and is superpower with influence.

Still, people are right. Mexico is not third world. Actually by the UN human development index mexico is ahead of countries like Russia and Malaysia now.

[Sketchley 0]

hamsterTK - good point. If I remember my social science classes, first world equalled developed, capitalist, and democratic, whereas second world equalled (semi) developed, communist, and non-democratic (or whatever the term Western European "democracies" called the government of countries on the other side of the Iron Curtain.)

Anyhow, those descriptors aren't used now-a-days in the social sciences. Developed nation and developing nation are the two that are used. I cannot say with 100% certainty, as it was outside of the scope of my major, but I believe that Mexico is considered a developing nation.

What the exact criteria is for developing and developed is beyond me. I have heard of the most computer-connected (computerized?) country on the Earth referred to as a developing economy. Which leads me to believe that these terms are more or less political, and used to make those that call themselves developed feel good about themselves.

[kokorcky 0]

K, just to get things cleared up i live in mexico city and mexico IS NOT a 3rd world country, we have cheap labour, lots of land and missing capital those are the 3 parts of economic development 1st of all, Mexico is a country where the gap between rich and poor is pretty large but that by no means it's a 3rd world country, mexico is developing faster than some 1st world countries example: the Economic growth mexico had is about 6% while in some european countries is in 2% maybe more. So I  personally felt offended saying my country is in the 3rd world, you should go and see some african countries some asian countries well...see in the US how some people live and ask is this really a 1st world? Maybe it is economically but by measuring it in quality of life? i guess not.

Take a tour arround some of the more developed parts of mexico city and you will be surprised. dont let stereotypes fool you. I for example (and dont want to be arrogant or a snob) drive a Mercedes benz and im not even on the top rich pyramid...far from it...

So yeah im a little angry right now-.- lol....

pd: Mexico is expected to be a 1st world country in under 20 years.

[Nick9099 2]

Here's an interesting map for you- the HDI (human development index) by state in mexico.  Notice that the tourist areas and the states close to the US border tend to be higher ranked, wich i think is a hint that the US has been a generally postive force in mexico in recent times.  (darker areas are more advanced)

 

Also worth noting is that mexican GDp growth has solidly outpreformed the US's for some time now and will probably continue to.  Mexico has got 110 million people and the 11th largest GDP in the world.  It is a country that would be taken seriously anywhere except for right next to the US.

[Motina 77]

Originally posted by: el_grande02

Dont forget about the corrupt politics in Mexico.quote>

Don't forget the courrpt politics in the US. Instead of bailing out Mexico, the Clinton Administration, under the Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin bailed out the creditors, one being Citibank/group, which Rubin would then later join.. lets not forget the deriviative "deregulations" and repealling of the Glass-Steagal, which coicidentally coicide with the practices of Citigroup. Before that Citigroup was breaking the rules.

There is far more corruption in "developed" "western" countries.. it is just more "sophisticated".

[Cob92 360]

I think the underdevelopment of Mexico would have something to do with the fact that their country has been in almost constant turmoil since its independence, and as a result economic growth has been stalled endlessly. America has only had one revolution (which was more of a secession movement than anything else) and one civil war. In addition, the Mexican government has proven itself inept at maintaining order, which is supposed to be the primary function of government. The very fact that the Mexican Army is struggling against drug lords rather than crushing their organizations with ease says something about Mexico's ability to control what goes on in its lands.

I'd like to say that the situation in Mexico vs. the state of America is a result of the different directions of the colonial societies, with the Spanish focusing more on resource plundering and the crude extraction of raw materials while the English permitted more economic buildup especially after the US breakaway (different approaches to mercantilist doctrine), but then we have well-developed Hispanic nations like Argentina that prove themselves to be exceptions. I can't think of an Anglo-Saxon colony that became third world right offhand, but I'm sure at at least one exists.

[Nick9099 2]

Zimbabwe might qualify. Good point though.

[Deionn 137]

I could probably say this, you can't help someone who doesn't want to be helped. i.e. the Middle East. Let's stop trying to be the world's police, America. [Yes, I am from here.]and...I used to have the same view as Duke87 but I realized what if I was in that predicament, and truthfully I think they ship people like him off for a few months in Juarez a.k.a. the worst city in the world with hundreds of murders.

[Mithrik 562]

The term of Underdeveloped Country is a great offense to us, the mexicans, we are about the 50-60th possition of the most powerful countries, we have one of the best economies, and to be honest, the problem because Mexico is not better, is because of:

- Corrupt Police

- Drug Dealers

- Much poverty

- The Invasions to our country (USA, France, Spain and UK)

- The pay of the loans taken back in the 19th Century, reason for much of the invasions.

But hey, we are not like African or some Asian countries, which have really big problems.

Look at Haiti, if they were a bit more developed, possibly the terrible disaster of that earthquake, would have been slightly more positive.

In the end saying that we are undeveloped is like saying that a cat is going to work instead of his owner, doesn't make much sense, at least to me, because I am mexican.

[harishna 847]

The original post was made showing a high degree of ignorance and from a typical American point of view, but forgetting about these details I'll start by saying that there is no simple answer to a question that is not simple. Mexico is a rich country, the problem is that only a few benefit from this, there is a big gap between social strata and this goes back to the Spanish conquest, which was very different from the English conquest of America. The Spaniards merged with the big native population becoming an elite that dominated and exploited the majority (this continues in a way now a days), in the other hand the English exterminated the small local population, and started form scratch and all at the same level (pretty much). Since the formation of the Mexican country there has been a constant internal struggle for power, so instead of focusing in develop the country the interest has remain in maintaining this power at all cost, this created serious problems, like corruption, ignorance and poverty (which are still probably the main problems). The Americans took a big advantage of that situation right from the beginning, this helped them to become the BIG strong nation they are now, for example they bought and acquire the majority of their land thanks to this at a really cheap price. They also made lots of money by selling arms and equipment, and by giving support to certain groups in the internal battles in Mexico, this weakened and divided the country, slowing down its development. Later on while the situation was still good for the country (Mexico had a busting economy and lots of money, besides the poverty and ignorance that dominated the rural areas), Mexico took the decision to invest everything in Oil production, soon the market collapsed leaving Mexico in a serious debt from which has never recover. Since then the country has been constantly on debt and therefore at the international mercy specially of the Americans. It was also asked why companies don't establish in Mexico, well it is cheaper to do it in Asia and regulations there are "softer" (corruption in Mexico is not the main reason as there is also corruption in China as well as in the USA but this happens mainly at higher levels), but even so companies establish in Mexico there are a lot of "maquilas" (factories), but Mexico has done very bad deals with the Americans and the Americans really good ones. Products are manufacture in Mexico then ship to the USA and then sell back to Mexico (and this maquilas close at any time leaving people jobless and the owners take the money out of the country)...and then comes the TLC. Basically Mexico sells prime goods to the USA while the USA sells back manufactured products, which can be 10 times more expensive, and products come to Mexico with no restrictions, but not the other way, when an American product cannot compete with a Mexican product the border is simply closed to the Mexican product (ask tomato, avocado, and meat producers for example) this has also caused the bankruptcy of some companies in Mexico, for example one of the largest tuna fleet in the Pacific collapsed, this after the border was closed for Mexican tuna, even after the companies showed that they were dolphin safe, the "suppose" cause for closing the border in the first place, the USA developed their own fleet and never re-open the border to Mexican tuna. By the way I'm a Mexican and I don't need or think on going to the USA...I'm a highly educated person with a PhD and a career in Science, we are not all poor and ignorant border jumpers...

[astondb9 7]

1st world/3rd world was started during the Cold war: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:First_second_third_worlds_map.svg It has barely changed since then.

The HDI is more relevant: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hdi and it shows that Mexico as a whole is alot less developed than the US and Western Europe.

[Nick9099 2]

It depends where in mexico. As you can see in the map I posted earlier, wich is the HDI within mexico, it does tend to vary a lot. Dark green is equal to parts of western europe, and the light yellow is similar to poor african countries.

[Mithrik 562]

Yes, I agree with Nick and my compatriot harishna, Mexico is very underestimated by the Americans, which have used our weaknesses during the XIX Century, that's how they got Florida from the Spaniards, Texas united under the USA flag, they told the borders where much more to the south than they really were, this started the Mexican-American War(1846-1848), which finished with the loss of half of the Mexican territory. The area covered the states of Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, California and part of Utah, then 5 years after that we lost La Mesilla for a very little quantity of money.

After that, Mexico involved in problems with European countries, not only the Americans, the greedy Napoleon III, tried to make of Mexico part of his empire, luckily we defeated the french.

Our country, started to grow after the 1880, but we still have many problems, much of them because of the past, a past that the developed countries have made, because of their hunger for power.

[HSA 2]

well people, I live in Brazil, the so-called third world, and what I can tell you is that this concept of three worlds is completely obsolete. For starters, poor countries should be the second world, that however poor a nation is, it will be better than a communist country (second world).

Further, the life situation of third world countries in Latin America is very well recently. Since the military dictatorships have lost the support of the U.S. (sorry, but is true, the so called largest democracy in the world, the usa, has supported a series of military governments. But that's ok, could have been worse if the socialist model take care ;-) thank you cia) a series of government assistance-reduced poverty. I know a girl who took notes lower than mine and got a scholarship at the university. It is questionable, but necessary. Within a few decades will disappear from the slums of Brazil, our space program and nuclear will re-active, etc. etc.. all within the system of government more inefficient can be expected in a culture of third world democracy.

The fact is that seeing the world the way that we are experiencing (rich north and poor south with the exception of Australia) is something outdated and even prejudiced. Poverty is something that has much relevance in places like Latin America. The mentality of our people are working to support the family and have some distraction. Anything more than that will only serve to attract eyes acids and generate discord in inheritance. Anyway, that's not the case.

The point is that behind the veil that is common to be used to ease his conscience and leftist propaganda, there is a very strong culture in the very south america. More than 100 years before the Americans take up arms for their idenpendencia, Indians and priests battled bi forces of Europe to have the right to survive, and were massacred. The survivors were to Paraguay, and 100 years after that country was completely destroyed in a war that wiped out 75% of the population. The center of Latin America is an area of constant conflict by the potential that this area has. If the people part of Argentina, Brazil, Uruguay and Paraguay have a single national identity could create a third force in the region that threaten the current hegemony.

Well, let's talk about Mexico now, the main reason for the nation to be poor is that they never had much luck in international trade. Could only contact with the rich while it was under European domination or being exploited, then the people revolted against it and overturn the rule. However suffered embargoes. So it was with France, it was with the nationalization of petroleum. The lack of trade is a very simple way to leave a nation in misery, and when that sort of thing occurs following others, such as warlords taking up arms for power and, of course, corruption. Because this type of situation has lasted for so long is mexico a country miserable. Yet I would call stupid people who migrate to the U.S. illegally. Canada is much more friendly and better opportunities as well xD

Sorry for the broken English, because this text is so big, I used google translate to save time. And this tool is obviously not perfect.

[Kingdom of Hispania 4]

First of all Mexico is NOT a third world country, all the contrary is one of the world's most important emerging markets and the most developed country in Latin America, way above Argentina & Brasil.

The problem with Mexico is that our politicians are mostly inept and our society is mostly displicent to throw them out. Even so, the north and center of the country are developing quite quickly and our cities are now much better than they were ten years ago.

In my city, for example, a lot of "colonias" who used to be slums now count with paved streets, good public services, schools and hospitals.

Of course there's still much to do, but we are doing it and not all in Mexico are drugs and poverty.

P.S. before anyone else comes here complaining about the "gringos", the United States are NOT guilty of Mexico's problems

[HSA 2]

I think with this kind of thing in the balance is extremely humiliating for the very third world countries ;-)

[Nick9099 2]

Brazil is the other great emerging country of our time. It has a growth rate even higher than that of Mexico, and is in a situation comprable to where China was 20 years ago, and India 10 years ago. Those three countries (the BICs, for short) are going to drive almost all the growth in the world economy for the forseeable future. Within 30 years, large parts of Brazil will be on par with the US or near to it, and it will, politically and militarily dominate South America.

Mexico could already be in a dominant position, but it tends to be overshadowed by it's neighbor the US, so it's potential influence can't show.

[HSA 2]

better than US, the part of brazil when I live, its comparable to the european countries. its the nem part of the state of Rio Grande do Sul. In this state lives 10 million people, 2 times more than uruguai and paraguai population togheter.

[Ocram's Razr 964]

I thought that Mexico has had a lot of second world qualities but some 1st world and some 3rd world. Mexico's cities are 3/4 first world 1/4 2nd world.

In cause you do not know, 2nd world means communist oriented. Back when the term was created, 2nd world countries were less developed than 1st world countries but still rather close.

[SC4BOY 21]

Mexico would have an opportunity to become a great country if they could get rid of the graft and corruption in officials and get on top of the drug cartel problem.

[HSA 2]

well friend, the cartel shell to the united states, so the drugs come to turn in a billionarie bussiness. the farc are financied for the united states... thats is f. ironic

[Deionn 137]

Mexico is a lot like the US in a way. We all have our bad places. We just hear about Mexico's bad places a lot more, possibly because America is the world's powerhouse in media.

[crakeningq 0]

You know the '2nd world' refered to comm bloc countries such as Cuba and China during the Cold War; and that it doesn't refer to development in any way. Which is why you can't really refer to a specific city as a '2nd world' city.

[Panzer555 0]

mexicos all poor and what not because all the mexicans are coming over here to the greatest country on earth but our presidents a *

Edited for language- SC4Meister

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