Shanghai vs. Dubai

[Urbandogg 0]

Dubai, UAE or Shanghai, China.

Shanghai is the fastest growing city in the world.

Dubai is second, but could easily become first.

Shanghai has Oriental Pearl TV Tower

Dubai has Burj Dubai

Now which do you prefer??

(in the pics, the first is dubai and the second is shanghai)

[Haljackey 17,241]

I'd have to say shanghai myself... it has a 22nd century skyline compared to Dubai's 21st century skyline. Besides, Shanghai is in a better location, near major Asian markets and has acess to the Pacific Ocean. Dubai is located in the middle of nowhere and it is a desert, having to import everything from food and water to supplies like wood and materials. Shanghai does not have this problem (for the most part) because of its location. Both cities have their major ups and downs, but this is just my 2 cents. I hope Shanghai wins in this "something vs something else" thread.

[Micah 16]

Odd that both end in "ai". But anyway, I think Shanghai is so beautiful and is one of the best spots in the world to film movies such as Mission Impossible 3. Dubai is just a city that has one main road with bunches of desert homes surrounding the main strip.

[JDRCRASH 53]

I prefer Shanghai because it is building up due to real demand.

Dubai on the other hand, is a city that is expanding up just because it doesn't want to wait decades for that demand to show up.

Take a look at this:

http://www.lacoctelera.com/myfiles/meinblog/dubai%20copia.jpg

See what i mean?

[lolebagels 0]

I think that it's never truly fair to simply compare, "vs.", two cities. Both come from different backgrounds, different cultures, different countries, etcetc -- you get the idea. To say that "____ has taller buildings, so it's better" doesn't really have much oomf into it. Just my two cents to all the threads out there ;o.

But, in this case, I'd have to agree with the three people above me - Shanghai is truly expanding due to the enormous demand of China - not just the (wild?) dream of an Arab oil shiekh. I didn't mean any offense, but there just weren't many other ways I could put it. However, Dubai IS an architectural marvel - yet so is Shanghai. I suppose both have their ups and downs.

strange nonsense ramble>

[aking88 7]

The demand in Dubai is big, most buildings built sell out. And the demand is growing.

Anyhow they can hardly be compared. Shanghai is ten times bigger when it comes to population. Whereas Dubai is an Emirate investing for a future without oil. They are both nice cities and with interesting history.

And about Dubai most emiratis support the way they are using their resources. It has helpt trade in the area and also lead to investments in regions which the west hasnt been, so far, very interested in.

About it being just a strip, seriously you have to get your facts straight, its funny to read how you judge things u apparently dont know almost nothing about. Most of Dubai is centered around Deira and Old Dubai nearing Sharjah. The SZR business strip is a new downtownproject due tot he massive traffic in Deira, they need to expand. The SZR may be a strip now but is expanding rapidly with Business Bay and DIFC. Also there is the Marina part, also Jumeirah some 30km away from SZR etc.

Much information can be found in the http://www.skyscrapercity.com/UAE forumdiscussions

[SimFox 800]

Aking88 to compare the two it is enough to open Google Earth and that's it.

BTW have you actually been to at least either of these? Or all you knowledge you base you opinions on is from such a politicized "mine bigger then yours" place like SSC? Much, well most of discussion there has nationalism and prejudices multiplied by adolescent maximalism as its arguments

There is NO competition what so ever. And it isn't even fair to try to do so. For millennia China was providing from quarter to a third of this world GDP and Shanghai is its main commercial hub. Shanghais GMP (Gross Metropolistan Product in PPP terms is about same as GDP of UAE and Saudy Arabia with all their oil put together approx 480 billion $) mind you s population of Shanghai is only 50% of that of those two countries. Generally comparing Dubai to Shanghai is like comparing Guinness book of records to Nobel Prize.

Speaking of history neither place has much in this department, In Chinese terms Shanghai is historical and to a degree cultural desert and Dubai is same in its respective region. Mind you Middle East and china are two of the oldest cradles of civilization. Still Shanghai has plenty of historical importance advances on Dubai (at least in last century or so). Given that Dubai is starting pretty much from nothing in the modern development it would be more appropriate to compare it to Shenzhen to see about real speed of the development. But here too the prize most probably would go to china – in 25 years Shenzhen had from virtually 0 to the city of almost 7 million. Doubt that Dubai would be able to show same.

To be fair one must agree that development in Shanghai is also to good degree speculative and vacancy rates are rather high. This could mean (like most of the time in economics) very different things as bubble ready to burst, or show of confidence by the investors. Important difference though is a wide spectrum of investors in Shanghai compare to that into Dubai which mostly fueled by local money and worst still by de-facto state money in a process that resembles nothing of open economic/political practice most of us would expect.

Dubai is good for what it is. And actually unique and valuable for the same! It is really without comparison as a monumental show of willpower.

I very much respect the Sheik for his drive, but that said can not share his optimism. None the less only wish Dubai greatest of success.

[JDRCRASH 53]

Yeah, Dubai is with little doubt going to be the New York City of the Middle-East, but I think that shiekh might possibly be getting a little carried away with the number of projects he is undertaking that are a little over the top, for example: A tower which will be 2700 ft tall, named Al Burj, seems very...well, tall! Three manhatten-sized islands shaped like palm trees and another island shaped like the World The largest mall in the world. The first underwater hotel. I guess what i'm trying to say is that the projects are cool, but it seems a little early for Dubai to be thinking THAT big. After all, wasn't it only 50 years ago that Dubai was established?!

[Glenni 1,444]

To be honest, Dubai just seems like a city doing nothing but showing off with their fancy renders of future buildings and not to mention that it is just a small place with skyscrapers coming outta nowhere..

[paperboy15 4]

Originally posted by: Glenni To be honest, Dubai just seems like a city doing nothing but showing off with their fancy renders of future buildings and not to mention that it is just a small place with skyscrapers coming outta nowhere..quote>

 

Which is exactly why I like it! My vote lies with Dubai.

[SimFox 800]

JD I think this amount is the whole key here! It is Dubai's claim to fame. Take away this "boom" and what are you left with???

As of a plans for it to become NYC of Middle east... well I'm not that sure what are the grounds for that?Do you mean NYC in terms of number of highrises?? Or economic clout?

Anyway in some respect it is remarkable none the less and we really shouldn't take it away!

[Urbandogg 0]

I am liking the feeback on this topic. Eventually I will tell you what I think is better, but not right now. I can't believe Shenzhen grew that much in 25 years!! . And I had no idea Dubai was only founded like 50 years ago, wow.

[aking88 7]

Simfox:

Dubai is not a cultural and historical desert. Its in a region inhabited for at least 7000 years, there are lots of old settlements and greves in teh UAE which date several thousands of years b.c.The culture is highly interesting, may i recommend the books "Culture shock! United Arab Emirates" by "Gina L Crocetti" from 1996 or "Oman & The UAE" published by insight guides in 2006.

Urbandogg;

The city of Dubai yes, but it has been inhabitated a long time and people in the region traded with mesopotamia some 3000 years b.c. to later develope an trade as far as to China until the region was colonised by european nations (portugal then england)

Glenni:

What do you mean skyscrapers "coming out of nowhere". Where are they supposed to come from, grow from the soil of the earth? They have succesfully made a huge name for themselves and created and ever growing demand for residential and commercial space, i thing they should have credits for it. Its not very surprising though as many developing countries will go true the same concept, just like the US and Europe have done before.

[zainkool 5]

I'm not sure both cities are beautiful but i like dubai more

[ccecill 52]

Right now, Shanghai has Dubai. But lets say 2020, Dubai has every city in the WORLD.

[JDRCRASH 53]

Well really both,as it appears people around the world believe that it is, I mean, just look on the forums of this site as well as www.Skyscrapercity.com.

Economically, I think everyone knows Dubai won't pass New York City anytime soon.

But in high-rises:

1.New York City

2.Chicago

3.Hong Kong

4.Dubai

[neder 1]

Dubai and Shanghai grow in such different manners. Shanghai grows to meet a demand while Dubai is growing because they have nothing better to do with their money and want to create a demand in some way. To give you an idea of how much money they have I'll tell you about what I know from Saudi Arabia after spending a couple of years there.

In Saudi Arabia there are no taxes, none what so ever. In arabic the country is called Al-Sauds Arabia. Al-Saud is the family name of the royal family and the whole county is their private property. The king gets all the money from the oil and hands it out among the population. There are around 20,000 members of the royal family and they get minimum $4000/month each so the can survive. The money is also used to pay for police, fire dept, schools, media, military, roads, mosques, the 20-30% unemployment and pretty much anything els you can imagine. When I lived in Saudi Arabia (3 years ago) the king spent 30% of the oil income on all this and the rest was saved to be used later.

UAE and Saudi Arabia is ruled in the same manner, but Dubai don't have as much oil as Saudi Arabia even though they still have a good amount. Most ppl here are saying that China is finacially stronger then UAE, but they're also 1,3 billion people compared to UAE's 4,5 million (about 25% of Shanghai's population). China and Shanghai is a much stronger region and in 20 years they will most likely be stronger then North America and Europe together.

Just the fact that this kind of questioning is asked proves that Dubai is doing something incredible, but I don't think it's fair. Instead we should compare it to Taipei (which is still twice as big), a city that's also booming. This would make the compasion much more interesting in my opinion.

Btw, imagine when Saudi Arabia decides to open up for tourists and get into the game. That's gonna be really interesting.

[Krio 624]

Shangahai, because Dubai spend their money for nothing good. They could help thrid world countries with that money and stop building empty buildings. They spend 2 billion euro for one skyscraper, and nobody won't move there, because lack of demand. With 2 billion euros, they could feed many African countries or build good infrastructre to one country.

[SimFox 800]

Aking88:

when I said cultural desert i didn't mean the fact of place being inhabited but the fact of place being culturally significant/outstanding - in that respect Dubai is cultural desert. Of course there was some culture, no doubt, but that culture didn't affect world or even the region in significant way, same as Shanghai - although in modern terms city is very young - about 150 years old much older city existed nearby, but it always been in the shadow of Suzhou, Hangzhou and of course Nanjing - hence again cultural desert.

Neder:

I see your point as to see GDP per Capita, but overall volume of GDP has significance of it's own. It is like critical mass needed for chain reaction. Some things become possible ONLY when overall economic activity reach certain level. Luxemburg - country with highest GDP per Capita in the world is still economic midget. and India with very low per capita numbers - giant. Also taking into account PPP adjustment is very important in order to evaluate true economic power. In this respect as I have said Saudi Arabia and UAE together have smaller GDP (total size of economy) when city of Shanghai, although They have total population of about 32 million vs about 16 million in Shanghai. Plus that fact that all that activity is concentrated in one city in stead of being spread over large territory also helps GREAT deal!

Although Shanghai construction (just like construction everywhere else ) is tinted with speculative motives, overall it is a consequence of growth, while in Dubai it is a one of the major sources.

Problem with such a development is that it is very fragile and difficult to manage. When all the ingredients of the economic activity have to be imported and all the results exported, the need of activity to take place in this very spot is very questionable. There have to be EXTRA incentives Also there is a prcious little in the way of anchor for economic agents to stay put in case of a change. This may easily become unmanageable when this system will have to completeyy cover all the expenses of this society.

[aking88 7]

Originally posted by: Krio Shangahai, because Dubai spend their money for nothing good. They could help thrid world countries with that money and stop building empty buildings. They spend 2 billion euro for one skyscraper, and nobody won't move there, because lack of demand. With 2 billion euros, they could feed many African countries or build good infrastructre to one country.quote>

oh comeone open your eyes. o give aid to poor countries isnt helpng them the elast when they are surrounded by tariff walls and have enormous debpt some dont want to write off altough in truth it should be the west who should be in debt to them after exploiting them during the colonialistic years.

No one want to move there? Dont make things up.

They are investing in africa, they invest in true, real trade and business in african countries such as even sudan to develope a real genuine economy. Ever heard of the expression "trade not aid". Africas problem isnt a lack of aid but a lack of trade and fair trading conditions. To put an example, officially every country has as much to say in the WTO (world trading organisation), but in truth whilst the poor countries cant afford much representation the richer countries have whole delegations of lobbyists there making sure it meets their needs.

They UAE also gives a lot of aidmoney, they where the single largest donator of financial and material help to Pakistan after the devastating earthquake there.

They have also helpt save several almost extinct animals on the arabian peninsula like the arabian oryx and leopard, and worked for natural reservates, started organisations for natural care. Yes they still have a long way to go, both politicially and economically, but developement doesnt happen over a night but first u have to bring education which demands that people have a proper lifequality to are about education, then gradually as people get educated u can go on to toher things, more democratic politics etc. They are doing this well, turning things over to fast can often lead to failure, they have clear goals and i can think of many worse ways a nation could use its resources in than the UAE is doing.

Also people talk alot about oil. Little do you hear the biggest aluminiumproducer in the world is founded and based in the UAE, for example.

[Urbandogg 0]

Dubai is going to have a problem in the future. I mean they are building all of these residential structures or planning residential projects, and not near enough commercial, and as for industrial, well lets just say that most of that is being redeveloped. and even if there is enough commerce, do you know how long the commute will be. business bay and dubai marina, are lets see....on like opposite ends of the city. i will come up with which one i prefer soon!!

[Micah 16]

The biggest problem with Dubai is their human rights problems and over 80% that live in Dubai aren't even citizens. In fact, if your parents aren't citizens, then you (in general) can't be a citizen of the U.A.E. The workers who are building the Dubai have been rioting (literally) because of the lower wages and poor working conditions. Another problem with Dubai is that the city has had cases where it won't allow certain people because of their nationality and race, for example, people of Jewish ancestory. Shanghai barely have any of these problems as far as I know.

[ledge69 0]

Shanghai, I hate to be down on Dubai, there is some amazing stuff going on there but it takes more then that to make a city and from their tourism site I'm not been blown away by much else other then shiny buildings.

[JDRCRASH 53]

My main concern is that as oil reserves run out in the Arabian peninsula and when more oil is drilled from the Rockies, Alaska, and even Antarctica, the boom in Dubai will run out of steam and the bubble will eventually explode.

@neder: No taxes?! Wow.

China isn't THAT big, and its going to take till mid-century for them to pass the US.

@SimFox:  I guess there's the advantage of being a small country like the U.A.E.

@Urbandogg:  Huh?  There are tons of jobs available in Dubai no matter where you are in the 

city!  If your willing to work very hard whenever your boss wants you to, then there is always a place in Dubai for you!

@Micah: You should see the underdeveloped part of Dubai!!  I mean its like a third-world country in that part of town.  Its really sad.

Hey, what happened to your avatar?

@Ledge69: I couldn't agree more, Dubai expects to be popular in less than a decade, but unfortunatly its gonna take longer than that for it to be on the map

[Micah 16]

Originally posted by: JDRCRASH

@Micah: You should see the underdeveloped part of Dubai!!  I mean its like a third-world country in that part of town.  Its really sad.

Hey, what happened to your avatar?

quote>

 

That's right. Dubai is basically one road of skyscrapers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheikh_Zayed_Road

Anything beyond that road is mainly old houses that are falling apart.

Off-topic: As for my avatar, the server stole it. :-( jk :-D  (I made it myself)

[Urbandogg 0]

JDRCRASH: Excuse me, I mean when the projects are done, yes currently there is lots of jobs in Dubai, but when all those residential things like Dubai Marina or Emirate Hills or Palm Deira or City of Arabia are completed, there won't be enough commerce, because there isn't enough commerce being built now, except "Burj Dubai, Downtown Dubai", which isn't just commercial, it is residential too. And besides that mega project isn't gonna hold all the people that will be coming to Dubai in these new communities. I mean I do have to agree with you JDRCRASH, for right now they have a lot of jobs, but they won't in the near future.

[aking88 7]

Originally posted by: Micah The biggest problem with Dubai is their human rights problems and over 80% that live in Dubai aren't even citizens. In fact, if your parents aren't citizens, then you (in general) can't be a citizen of the U.A.E. The workers who are building the Dubai have been rioting (literally) because of the lower wages and poor working conditions. Another problem with Dubai is that the city has had cases where it won't allow certain people because of their nationality and race, for example, people of Jewish ancestory. Shanghai barely have any of these problems as far as I know.quote>

There is a growing population of jews living in the UAE, its Israelis they have a dispute with, its a political issue not something having to do with that they are as you say of jewish ancestory. The reason for the low wages is becouse so many in that subcontinent is willing to do that work for that kind of money. im not justifying it but its got a lot better the recent years and as the nations in the region keep developing the workerconditions will get better. Of course u have to work actively for it and it aint the companies that will push for the changes exactly. The workers in UAE often come from india, indonesia etc and work for decades without seeing there families before they go home again, just to be able to send back money to their families, that pattern needs to be broken. China though also have even worse working conditions, bot with national and foreign owned industries, i wont go into that issue now... (altough china has to improved becouse of better economy and better education for more peopel)

Anyhow about the traffic someone mentioned, its probably going to be a problem, im mostly concerned about parking when all these new scrapers are built.

Urbandogg:

not enough commerce? dubailand allone will lead to an big amount of new jobs. Dubai is among the top if not the top choice for companies establishing an headquarter for the ME or even asia.

[Urbandogg 0]

yeah, sure, that still won't be enough with all the projects on residential they have.

[aking88 7]

They aim at 2.5 million inhabitants in 2020, i dont think its very unrealistic that the city will be able to support that amount by then.

[Urbandogg 0]

whatever. i think we're getting off topic. :@ :@