Global Warming

[kibblewitbit 0]

everyone is totally overreacting, people have been filling the atmosphere with greenhouse gases for 150 years and the only change so far is a slight increase in temperature and a small rise in sea level humans probably have something to do with global warming but i dont think we are going to destroy ourselves, many people are being led to believe that in a century or two civilization as we know it will collapse, and its not like people havent experienced warmer temperatures before, like some people already stated, for example the early medieval warm period. instead of worrying about the near future we should take things more slowly, emmisions have dropped in many developed countries there are many educated people and scientists that are sceptical of the global warming theory.

[confused04 14]

Humans may have been inputing greenhouse gases for 150 years, but certainly not at the same rate/magnitude. The population has grown significantly in the past 150 years (almost six fold) and technology across a broad spectrum from recreation, transportation, resource gathering, and so forth have capitalized on mechanization, which requires some form of energy, generally derived from fossil fuels.  A lot of the temperature increase had been tempered by the release of aerosols.  But now that international agreements such as the Montreal Protocol have reduced aerosols, the results of CO2 build up are now longer masked and clearly evident.  The ecology of many ecosystems are sensitive to small changes, small changes we've brought on in a short period of time.  Evolution has no chance to account for such changes.  Global warming is currently a problem, particularly in northern latitudes as well as low lying areas where even a small increase in sea levels has increased the frequency of coastal flooding.  If this "small" change is having measurable affects now, continual build up of "small changes" will continue to accumulate.  Thats not even to say that global warming will have synergistic affects with other so called "hippy" concerns.  So even minute changes can exacerbate other problems.

[daniel01 0]

I'm not sure to post this but it came out today
and i'm not sure to revive this topic. Maybe it isn't that late anyway.

---

I was watching Ten's Late News when there was a story about the Global Warming mainly due to humans.

---

Here is the story:
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,21158449-661,00.html
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16922234/

---

 

UN predictions of a rise in global temperatures would be a disaster resulting in widespread extinctions, Australian of the Year Tim Flannery says.

The respected scientist said the UN's prediction of a three degree Celsius temperature rise was conservative and in fact could be double that figure resulting in "truly catastrophic" conditions for all life on earth.

The UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) releases its report in Paris tonight, with its strongest warning yet that human activities are causing global warming that may bring more drought, heatwaves and rising seas.

IPCC scientists agreed it was "very likely" human activities were the main cause of warming in the past 50 years, predicting temperatures would rise by three degrees Celsius and sea levels by as much as 43cm by the turn of the century.

Professor Flannery said the UN climate report's predictions on the consequences of global warming are "middle of the road" but will still provide a useful benchmark for the world to tackle climate change.

Prof Flannery, whose recent book The Weather Makers said climate change was the most serious issue confronting humanity, said although the estimates were conservative, they would provide greater certainty about the consequences of global warming.

"It lays out a sort of middle of the road trajectory, which is alarming enough I can tell you, for this century," he told ABC Radio National.

"I don't think this idea of calling it catastrophic or anything else has anything to do with science. We need to look at the data objectively."

Temperatures could rise by much more than the IPCC's prediction of three degrees, he said.

"It could be worse than this - there's a 10 per cent chance of truly catastrophic rises in temperatures, so we're looking at six degrees or so," Prof Flannery said.

"That would be a disaster for all life on earth. Three degrees will be a disaster for all life on earth.

"We will lose somewhere between two out of every 10 and six out of every 10 species living on the planet at that level of warming.

"It will set in train a series of climate consequences that will run for a thousand years."

Prof Flannery said the clearest example of the IPCC's conservatism was its prediction the Arctic ice cap could disappear in summers by 2100. 

daniel01

[zachos-prague 0]

Hi, I have recently seen Al Gore's film The inconvenient truth, and I must say I was not surprised with facts mentioned in this film at all.I live in Czech Republic (European Union), and there were serious environmental problems here some 17 years ago, after the reign of Communists the whole country was spoiled with pollution, there were polluted rivers etc. We had to do some unpopular things to make it better, several factories had to be closed in order to meet ecological requirments, although our economy was not so strong, we decided to build new nuclear power plant, to make it possible to close some coal plants and decrease the pollution.By 2000 we managed to decrease amount of CO2 released to atmosphere by 10% in comparision with 1990.But our economy kept going up during the nineties, in average by 3-4% a year, because new, modern a effective factories were being introduced (we supported so-called "clean" facilities, cos they had to pay lower taxes).If it is possible to do it in a small country, as mine is, why not in U.S.A.?

It is not so hard to do something with global warming and CO2 emmisions, keep it in mind when next presidential elections will take place in U.S.A.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Originally posted by: simcitystar1167

Since the beginning of time, man has been slowly destroying the Earth. quote>

Man was not present at the beginning of time.  Global warming is part of the geologic cycle.  Instead of doing some surface reading, do some real digging and you will discover that we are in the midst of yet another warming cycle. 

Look at the antarctic ice cores that show the long term climatic trends.  You'll find some strata where pollution was worse than it is now, and better as well.  Delve into the astronomy text books and papers and you will find that the earth orbit is such that these cycles are inevitable.  Just now we are on a part of the orbit (not the annual one, but the one that revolves the annual orbit) that takes us closer to the sun.

Who is man that the universe should take note of what he does?  We may or may not exacerbate these effects, but you can't monkey with mother nature.

[acerview 0]

seriously it doesn't matter, the sun will go supernova in like 20 million years anyway lol

[The boy formerly known as Evil Muzz 27]

It sounds to me like those who are all screaming about Global Warming really don't like us humans... I mean, they all say "Look what we've done! Aren't we terrible, horrible disgusting creatures?!" And the short answer is no. I agree with N_O_Body, the planet has experienced completely natural climatic shifts since the beginning of time (I think simcitystar has seen one too many bad 60's dinosaur films with cavemen ). The earth is currently in an inter-glacial period between ice ages, we should be glad of the warmth becauyse in a few thousand years we are going to be incased in ice!!! Besides, Global Warming by humans (I believe we do contribute a tiny bit) can't be worse than it was at the turn of last century. The Industrial Revolution, highly unefficient steam trains, factory's billowing smoke produced by raw coal...

[coolotter88 2]

Acerview...more like another 4.5 billion years, much more than your 20 million years.

My friend told me in "An Inconvenient Truth" Al Gore just complains about how he lost the election for most of the movie and then he points out some obvious things like global warming will raise sea levels and cause bad things to happen.

[Camaron 1]

Originally posted by: The boy formerly known as Evil Muzz  The Industrial Revolution, highly unefficient steam trains, factory's billowing smoke produced by raw coal...quote>

 

Part of the problem is that although developed countries such as the United Kingdom have had their industrial revolution, developing countries are still having it (or are yet to have it), China being a good example. These countries have to use more pollution generating technology for economic reasons, meaning they are rapidly becoming big polluters.

[Gozer_Jep 0]

maybe the global warming was there for ages, but in the past, not so many people were on this planet: In earlier days, holland was flouded, but it was no problem, because there were just a couple of little villages, buit now 16 million people are living ther, so now it is a problem.

[Archangel9 28]

I find it deeply frightening that some people can just keep going on with their lives, oblivious to the fact that we are (if not wholly) partially to blame for Global Warming. Do you honestly feel that tossing your garbage onto the street has no effect to nature? What about the millions of others who do that? Do you not feel that clearing the forests and laying down concrete over them has no negative efffects? What about sending pollutio into the atmosphere? The fact is, there are so many of us, that, yes, we re having an impact on the world, and people who do not accept this will find their wakeup call pretty harsh, when another superhurricane is baring down on them.

Honestly, even if global warming is wrong- which, if you beleive about 2000 of the world's top scientists who just relesed a report that we're to blame- even if we're just in another phase of the world's warming (which is also bull, because we should actually be heading into an ice age soon) then you still should quit the pollution. Even if our smog and litter doesnt warm up the world, its been killing millions of species of animals (to the point that it is widely beleived that we extinct a few hundred species a day)

And how fishing off the coasts of canada is bad now because of overfishing. So human do, in fact, affect the world, and it is just ignorant, arrogant, and, well, human, to try to deny it.

[Kippis05 2]

Okay, first of all, Global Warming is a seroius problem in our world today. Maybe overall it is a natural process that has been repeated time and time again in the past, but human activities have done nothing but exacerbate the current problem. Even if human infulence is a small part of global warming overall, who's to say that humanity hasn't done it's fair share in destroying countless ecosystems and leveling millions of square miles of forested areas? We as a race have done terrible things to this planet, sometimes irreversable changes. Ever since the Industrial Revolution began in the early 1800's, CO2 levels in the world have increased almost two-fold. Also, dating back almost 1000 years, carbon variations have increased dramatically, by at least 40% in some cases. Anthropogenic factors are acts by humans that change the environment and influence climate. The biggest factor of present concern is the increase in CO2 levels due to emissions from fossil fuel combustion, followed by aerosols (particulate matter in the atmosphere) which exerts a cooling effect. Other factors, including land use, ozone depletion, animal agriculture and deforestation also impact climate Beginning with the industrial revolution in the 1850s and accelerating ever since, the human consumption of fossil fuels has elevated CO2 levels from a concentration of  around 280 ppm to more than 370 ppm today. These increases are projected to reach more than 560 ppm before the end of the 21st century. It is known that carbon dioxide levels are substantially higher now than at any time in the last 800,000 years. Along with rising methane levels, these changes are anticipated to cause an increase of 1.4–5.6 °C between 1990 and 2100:

Also, even dating before the IR, the biggest problem associated with our current crisis is land use. Deforestation for farmland in the rainforests of South America, or the biggest consumed land use in the United States and Canada, we're digging ourselves deeper and deeper into a hole. Irrigation, deforestation, and agriculture fundamentally change the environment. For example, they change the amount of water going into and out of a given locale. They also may change the local albedo by influencing the ground cover and altering the amount of sunlight that is absorbed. For example, there is evidence to suggest that the climate of Greece and other Mediterranean countries was permanently changed by widespread deforestation between 700 BC and 0 BC (the wood being used for ship-building, construction and fuel), with the result that the modern climate in the region is significantly hotter and drier, and the species of trees that were used for ship-building in the ancient world can no longer be found in the area.

The dark green areas depict solid undisturbed rainforest, whereas the light green is 

land being compromised, and the grey and red indicate deforested areas.

Lastly, one of our biggest blunders, the rise of industry and urban sprawl have lead to nothing but trouble. The term "Los Angelization" is also sometimes used for urban sprawl. Los Angeles was one of the world's first low density urbanized areas, as a result of wide automobile ownership long before others, but has become more dense over the past half-century, principally due to small lot zoning and a high demand for housing due to population growth. According to United States Census Bureau data, the Los Angeles urbanized area (area of continuous urban development) increased its density by one-half from 1950 to 2000. In 2000, the Los Angeles urbanized area (as opposed to the city proper) was the most dense urbanized area in the United States, at 7,068 persons per square mile. This compares to second place San Francisco at 6,127 and New York at 5,309. There is often confusion about this fact, since core densities in New York are considerably higher than in Los Angeles. The higher density of Los Angeles is the result of much higher suburban population densities, which are nearly as high as Paris suburban densities. 

As density has increased, so has the air pollution from incoming traffic into the main core of Los Angeles. This is morningtime in the hills of LA,

showing the collection of smog during several consecutive days.

Sorry for the extremely long post, but Global Warming is one of my "hot buttons"

-Good Ol' Kippis

[buckeyefreak 0]

I have heard Mars' icecaps are melting at a rate of 10 feet per year. Boy I guess us HUMANS have something to do with that too! And I have also heard that the whole CO2 problem that is "trapping" heat in our atmosphere is not able to trap it on other planets so they stay colder than they should. Also, that humans produce a whopping 2% of the CO2 in the atmosphere. Sounds like some scary numbers to me. Look at solar activity, the tilt of the planet. It is just a bunch of bull so some hippie loving tree huggers can impose restrictions on your lifestyle. SCREW it. I don't believe anything that comes from the UN or Washington because it is a bunch of clueless retards talking about something they have no idea about.

[Gozer_Jep 0]

It's not only from Washington and the UN, but from most scientists. Things are changing, thats prooved. It's not prooved that humans have anything to do with it, but it's very strange that the temperature has rissen since industrial revolution, with the same rate as the concentration CO2. If you see how many CO2 we all produce, than it's strange that temperature hasn't rissen much till now! It could be that we produce 'just' 2% of the CO2, but the nature itself can handle the other 98%, but not our 2%.

[coolotter88 2]

AUGHHH!!!! HOCKEY STICK OF DOOM!!!

[Kippis05 2]

Here's a link you might find interesting:

George W. Bush's stance on Global Warming

[Jasoncw 11,840]

The boy formerly known as Evil Muzz:  The Earth getting hotter is not really what's going to happen.  The Earth will get hotter, which will throw off the weather systems, rearranging the Earth's climate.  Our cities depend on the current climate.  The cities that are now in moderate climates don't have the infrastructure to be in a desert or under water or buried in snow.  The ecosystem we depend on for food also depends on the climate to be what it is now.

Buckeyfreak:  So the world's top scientists who have spent their entire lives researching this very topic are all completely wrong, and you know better?  What qualifications do you have that they don't?

[krbe 193]

I agree with the Swedish scientist Svante Arrhenius; global warming is only good for us. Cold areas become more fertile, thus Earth can support more people. The rapid freezing/melting we have experinced in Norway the last month are the supposed effects of global warming, and so far, it has only resulted in some falling rocks by the tunnels (we have over 800 of them, so it's not really that much).

In fact, I hope the average temperature rises about 15 centigrades, because the I can't stand these winters! And lastly, plants live of CO₂. In fact, they love it so much, that the more CO₂ they are fed, the more oxygen they produce — and that's only healthy for the ecosystem.

[Jasoncw 11,840]

Krbe:  Like me and a few other people have said over and over, the effects are not just things getting hot.

[Goldfish4209 9]

What happened to playing it safe? What happened to bikes?

If we ditched suburbs and exurbs, all lived in high density housing projects and rode bikes to work/school, that would take a HUGE chunk out of our emissions.

If we can figure out how to farm more efficiently without using tons of chemicals, that would make things even better.

We can all eat less meat. It takes land to raise cows, sheep, etc. Some of that land can be use to raise more crops.

Power can be generated more efficiently. Hydroelectricity doesn't have to mean a giant slab of concrete across a river. There are turbines that sit in the middle of the river and generate power. There can be a lot of those without messing up anything.

If we can do that, wouldn't pollution be reduced alot? Say yes.

[buckeyefreak 0]

How on earth can they possibly PROVE the earths temeratures have risen. I for one am curios as to why for the last month has northern ohio been below 10 degrees and often well below zero when average temps should be around 20. Do they have thermometers in every possible place on earth measuring temps? Most scientists? Most scientists that have the voice in washington or UN sure. But what about the guys that actually look at facts before they make assumptions. I am not saying they are wrong...maybe it came out that way....I am saying, until there is PROOF I don't belive a word of it. Plus if you take close look at the graphs of temperature and CO2 levels year to year and not over the course of 500 million years or whatever that wack job gore says....they are rarely if ever a match. Sometimes CO2 is up and temp is down or vice versa. The Earth is constantly changing and who is to say that what is happening isn't natural. I belive it is. I do believe that pollution is having a negative effect but global warming is pish posh. Besides, it is the same scientists that 30 years ago said we were cooling down. The same guys that can't figure out what is going to happen 12 hours from now but know for a "fact" that 200 years from now it will average 1.5 degrees warmer than today. I for one am not excited about hippies running the world. How bad would that be. Nothing against the beliefs but until what they are "claiming" is PROVEN true then why should our entire way of life be changed.

I heard another thing the other day. If everyone in the U.S. started riding bikes instead of driving, and all of china's factories shut down and there was something with Europe shutting down something, then "Global Warming" would still continue. Nothing we can do will reverse it except, go back to the stone age and give up on all technology, oh and don't burn a fire to keep warm cause that pollutes too!

[krbe 193]

Oh no, in the end it's getting colder say the scientists. The Gulf Stream might "shut down" if the temperature is rising enough. And that's not really good news for Scandinavia, as it's quite liveable above the Arctic Circle (all of Husdon Bay is below the Arctic Circle, which goes through the upper south part of Baffin Island. Most of Europe (industry and people) is situated between 40 and 60 degrees north - ie between Trenton and Denver in south, and the border between the provinces and territories in north.

And about Svante Arrhenius — he was the first to see the connection between concentration of CO₂ and global temperature.

[Gozer_Jep 0]

The same can we say here in europe: it should be freezing here now, but instead, it's 15 degrees above 0. You can't say after 1 year: the average temperature is going up: you need measurements of more years. When you see the measurements of temperatures in holland the last 300 years, you can see that temperature is going up. Ok, it's treu that for example 2000 years ago, temperature was here high enough to plant wineyards, but temperature is high enough for it now too. That's not the problem, but when temperature gets higher, it is. You can say: nothing will happen me, but others will happen something, like the people in africa, and in low areas, such as holland and bangladesh. And when you want to have it proven it may will be to late.

[buckeyefreak 0]

But there are so many other possible reasons that are out of our hands. I really do not want to give up my way of life and pay more taxes, put power into evil hands based on a hunch. I do feel that decreasing pollution is GREAT! Clean up the Earth is excellent, but sacrificing my way of life for it is not something I feel should happen to anyone. Again, I say, look at Mars. Its icecaps are melting and we don't live there. CO2 can't keep heat in on that planet so something else is happening. However, CO2 can keep heat in here on Earth? The tilt of the earth is wobbling like a top. We just might be at a point where a little more sunlight is hitting the earth in certain places. Solar activity....all the huge storms the sun has sends heat through all those different waves and junk. I am not saying I am right and you are all wrong, I am saying that look at ALL facts not just the ones that support your opinion.

[coolotter88 2]

I don't think a lot of people want to live in high density areas, thats why they live in the suburbs. I would never live in a city, too loud, I don't care if I spew out greenhouse gasees like a factory stuck in traffic, thats what everyone will say.

Solar output is the highest its been in the last 8000 years.

[buckeyefreak 0]

But there are so many other possible reasons that are out of our hands. I really do not want to give up my way of life and pay more taxes, put power into evil hands based on a hunch. I do feel that decreasing pollution is GREAT! Clean up the Earth is excellent, but sacrificing my way of life for it is not something I feel should happen to anyone. Again, I say, look at Mars. Its icecaps are melting and we don't live there. CO2 can't keep heat in on that planet so something else is happening. However, CO2 can keep heat in here on Earth? The tilt of the earth is wobbling like a top. We just might be at a point where a little more sunlight is hitting the earth in certain places. Solar activity....all the huge storms the sun has sends heat through all those different waves and junk. I am not saying I am right and you are all wrong, I am saying that look at ALL facts not just the ones that support your opinion.

[Kippis05 2]

Originally posted by: buckeyefreak But there are so many other possible reasons that are out of our hands. I really do not want to give up my way of life and pay more taxes, put power into evil hands based on a hunch. I do feel that decreasing pollution is GREAT! Clean up the Earth is excellent, but sacrificing my way of life for it is not something I feel should happen to anyone. Again, I say, look at Mars. Its icecaps are melting and we don't live there. CO2 can't keep heat in on that planet so something else is happening. However, CO2 can keep heat in here on Earth? The tilt of the earth is wobbling like a top. We just might be at a point where a little more sunlight is hitting the earth in certain places. Solar activity....all the huge storms the sun has sends heat through all those different waves and junk. I am not saying I am right and you are all wrong, I am saying that look at ALL facts not just the ones that support your opinion.quote>

 

I can see your point that human activity isn't the only factor in global warming... But why do you say "putting power into evil hands based on a hunch"? If this evil that you speak of are the leaders and politicians that continue to ignore the current problems we face then I agree with you, but don't place that in terms of the environmentalists and scientists who have been compiling facts and scientific data on the current situation. 

Just a note, Mars' icecaps always melt and re-expand every so often, it's just a natural process due to its position from the Sun and its rotational axis.. 

Our current lifestyles are wasteful and continuing the way we live today isn't going to help matters any.. If anything, if we continue to live the way we do and don't make any changes, we face monumental consequences. I mean, if you have a family of seven, using an SUV and living in a large home is not a big deal... But, if you have, say a family of three, each owning your own SUV, live in a 9,000 sq. foot house, then you're being very wasteful. Not to be insulting to anyone, but is this the world we want to hand down to the next generation? If we do nothing, then who will? It will be our children and our grandchildren that will pay the price for our mistakes. 

Believe me, I have no intention of blaming anyone, especially anyone who gives enough consideration to post in this thread, hell I live a pretty posh lifestyle and I wouldn't want to change it if it weren't necessary.. But look at the facts, we need to make a change, people!

Again, I'm sorry if I flamed you and didn't read your post thuroughly enough, just wanted to get that out in the open

-Good Ol' Kippis

[krbe 193]

Actually, those who have studies regarding the correalation between temperature and CO₂ are inconclusive. They can't really show us that all of earth is going under or not. We don't know enough about the connection between the sun and the temperature.

Of course you shouldn't give up your life style. Of course it's unfair to pay taxes. How do you think we in Europe feel about our green taxes, e.g. on the petrol? It costs about USD 3-4 per litre, and the worst thing is that we are one of the biggest oil exporters in the world!

But what is really bad, is that there are about 4-5 billion people around the world that don't enjoy the same standards of life that you and me do, buckeyefreak. I'm really glad to hear that they are on the right way, though. Consequenses in the western world hasn't been too bad in the western world either; in fact, the Norwegian economy is booming, and companies can't absorb the demand, and the unemplyment rate is about 2%, which seems to be the lowest possible rate. Hopefully, more nation will follow China soon.

And about Mars's icecaps — CO₂ plays a considrable role in the Mars atmosphere, especially since the southern ice cap is made of CO₂. It is concentrated in the western hemisphere, where the most violent weather is.

[buckeyefreak 0]

But there are so many other possible reasons that are out of our hands. I really do not want to give up my way of life and pay more taxes, put power into evil hands based on a hunch. I do feel that decreasing pollution is GREAT! Clean up the Earth is excellent, but sacrificing my way of life for it is not something I feel should happen to anyone. Again, I say, look at Mars. Its icecaps are melting and we don't live there. CO2 can't keep heat in on that planet so something else is happening. However, CO2 can keep heat in here on Earth? The tilt of the earth is wobbling like a top. We just might be at a point where a little more sunlight is hitting the earth in certain places. Solar activity....all the huge storms the sun has sends heat through all those different waves and junk. I am not saying I am right and you are all wrong, I am saying that look at ALL facts not just the ones that support your opinion.

[Giligone 10]

Ok, I for one would like to see an educated discussion on this issue. If you haven't studied the issue in depth and read the scientific literature you really shouldn't even be talking about it because your opinion is essentially worthless. Please don't post random things like "mars is warming up but we aren't there" or "the sun is at its highest production" or "its cold today, therefore no global warming" or "the earth is wobbling like a top on its axis" or any other such unsubstantiated statements. If you are going to make such a claim please support it with scientific data.

@Buckeyefreak: Please do not post the same thing again and again and again. If I see you post that same thing again I will report you to a moderator.