Millenium Tower VS Burj Dubai

[JDRCRASH 53]

I truly believe this is the rivalry that will occur.

The mighty Burj versus the gargantuan Millenium.

I believe this because the twp omega towers share almost the same characteristics.

The Tower on the left may very well be a vision and nothing more, but this seems to be the perfect showdown

[SC4Noobie 5]

The millenium tower was designed several years ago. It was one of those crazy towers. If it was under construction, I'd celebrate. I don't like Dubai for all the construction without any real base (meaning demand) Tokyo, though, is a city to be known with a supertall. The largest in the world.

[Goin2Chicago 4]

they both look like something that would come out of a science fiction movie. interesting designs though. i heard that someone was batting the burj dubai.

[JDRCRASH 53]

@SimNoobie:

(Off Topic:LOL, I like your icon)

Well this Arabian city is seeing a boom not seen since the Roaring 20's in New York City, right before the stock market went poof.

@goin2Chicago:  Yup, Andisart and Skyscraper are BATing the Burj right now, both different versions.

[StegSC 40]

I love how the Burj Dubai looks, so I'm hoping that it will hold the title for at least some time. I really like the city of Dubai in general, it's growing quickly and it's really modern.

[SimFox 801]

Edited - MM. Talk about the topic, not each other.

As for Dubai prospects… At skyscrapercity.com there is big group of Dubai fans who are as devoted, as floating in the sky about their dream town.

I on the other hand must side with people who wonder where does it all go and from what reason is started. I hope that Dubai experiment will be success, but sadly see no clear reason for it existence, or to be precise for the scale of it in the first place.

What is it based on?? Apart from significant amount of oil money? Is it real investment? Who’s, apart from ruling family, investing? Burj Dubai is perfect example. The size of the tower is closely guarded secret, I guess partially cause nobody really knows it. What would that say about budget? After certain height every extra meter will cause price increase in geometrical progression! So Tower has NO budget, it is built no matter the cost. Well, how about later upkeep of it? After 10, 20 years? When oil will run out…

Tourism is clamed to be new thing. And visitors numbers do look impressive, but do you want just visitors numbers? From Economic stand point shouldn’t you be interested in Money Spent? But when you look at those Dubai has nothing to brag! In fact picture is rather sad (all numbers are available at World Tourism Organization’s site). Given those I can not see how any of the investmen is gonna be recovered.

Office space is even bigger mystery! Normally you build office space there where demand for it exists. In Dubai you first built and then trying to create demand. City itself has neither demand for services produced in those offices, no qualified personal to occupy them, So everything have to be imported. Why anyone does it? To save on the costs. Currently there isn’t any taxes, how long could Dubai keep it up? But this isn’t over yet!! Tax incentives did create high demand for offices, so rent prices started spiral out of control! So now 49% of companies are considering moving out of Dubai because of high rents. Taken into account that they are there in first place only for tax reasons situation start look especially dangerous.

[JDRCRASH 53]

Edited - MM

However, the Sumida Tower(which you might not have heard of, heh) is being built, and it will stand at 2001 ft.

Plus don't forget the incredible demand in Japan, remember this is a place that is politically small but one of the largest populations in the world, so towers will go skyhigh.

[SimFox 801]

JDRCRASH: Edited - MM. Rivalry between real world and imagination?? Well it isn’t difficult to predict that imagination will always win, it takes a split second and no cost at all to boost your imagination, sadly, same technique couldn’t be applied to real world. Why then to limit yourself with millennium Tower and not go higher on and claim rivalry with another vision – tower shaped as a Mount Fuji and with height of 3 km? Eh?

And Sumida Tower which is NOT built but still a proposal is just that -TV tower, building of TV towers and proper building is quite a bit different.

About Incredible demand in Japan, since early 90 that is EXACTLY what it was - INCREDIBLE, I mean that no one would give it any credit. If you would pay attention you would know that last year is a first when property prices stop falling! And managed small gain of about 1% and even then only in Tokyo! Time what land in Tokyo was most expensive on this planet are far gone. Economy was stagnant for a loooong time, Much of it is absolutely uncompetitive and is there only because of incredibly protective mentality of society. Of course there is always Toyota! Japan is still – no doubt there, world second largest economy in nominal terms. But economy that just seems unable to pick up steam for last 15 years. Being very developed economy, it has some overcapacity issues in most sectors. With labor force is predicted to shrink need for new Buildings comes mostly from need to replace old ones. This is an issue for most mature economies – possible apart from USA and Australia may be Canada, where population continues to grow. Japan is also one of most expensive places to do anything plus all of it in the some of extreme risk of VERY big seismic events, put this two together and you’ll see cost for Skyscrapers going through the roof. Unlike Dubai that is defacto private Skyscraper Disneyland of the ruling sheik, Japan is a real economy, meaning that cost is always a factor! Building like that may never pay back to investors (adding high maintenance costs).

Edited - MM

[JDRCRASH 53]

Edited - MM

Also i'm taking Economics in high school, so i'm quite familier about land value, and oil profits.

But you are right, Nikkei has lost quite a bit of market value.

And i'm also aware of the X-Seed 4000, and all the other fantasized megastructures out there, such as the Illinois, the M.O.T.H.E.R, The Bionic Towers, and many more to come.

I visit Skyscraperpage.com and Emporis.com every day.

[mightygoose 92]

you peeps cant rule out this baby though, planned and they are going to break ground in 2010

the mubarak tower kuwaits answer to the burj dubai, set for 2025 completion is in the running for the first 1km+ supertall. in at 1001m

[manman99 2]

Did anybody notice that in the picture that JDCRASH provided us is off.  If you look at the bottom of the picture you will see that the Millenium Tower is rasied above The Burj Dubai.  It is not correctly alligned!!!  But I just thought I would point that out for you,  I really don't have anything to say in this conversation...........................Im really not into both of these towers at all.  I really like the Freedom Tower, but I wish it would be taller.  Or I just wish that America would once agin clim the title for worlds tallest building, even though America did hold it for about 80-85 years.

                              Manman99                

[JDRCRASH 53]

ManMan99: sorry my badhttp://www.skyscraperpage.com/cities/?buildingID=3510

[JDRCRASH 53]

well the burj dubai is on the 56th floor.

http://www.burjdubaiskyscraper.com/2006/07/burj-dubai-july-21-01.jpg

[SC4Noobie 5]

What SimFox said in his(her?) first post is what i'm trying to say. I'm pretty sure Dubai is gonna be a falure, but this is turning into a future of Dubai thread, which already exists. I think Dubai is trying to debase it's economy off of oil to other things, like a "real" economy, like the US. I want the US to be the leader again, something it rightfully deserves... I think the Burj will be a massive sucess, while the rest of Dubai empties out. Then slowly the Burj will be gone and forgotten about. I'm talking in about 100 years or so...

[paulvmontfort 616]

between 500 & 600 meters is the limit for me. Above that the buildings become too high, too futuristic and too ugly. I think the world should stay realistic.

[manman99 2]

SC4Noobie:  Your right about that.  Thats wut Ive been trying to say!!!!  Skyscrapers are an American invention.  Started in Chicago, then in New York for 71 years until sears tower in Chicago again.  Even though we did hold the title for a long time, I still think it is rightfully ours.

                           Manman99                

[Canadian Mind 1]

Any one want to take a bet that these super tall towers collapse because they are to heavy for the ground?

[manman99 2]

Almost impossible.  They make special lots for the buildings so that they can have a stonger surface to be built upon.  Unlike New York City where the ground is all granite.  Thats some of the toughest rock in the world, so they have no problem there besides where the world trade center used to be.  So it depends on what type of ground.

                            Manman99                

[timotheus4 39]

There's no way you can say that any title is rightfully America's. We didn't patent the skyscraper, it doesn't belong to any of us, and to tell the truth we ought to share a little. Nothing the USA has ever built can compare to the Burj Dubai, and if we can build something better, bigger, taller, and more profitable, why, we'll have the record again. No point grousing about another country's success.

[Canadian Mind 1]

Below buri dubai is between 1000 and 5000 feet of sad with giant super porus facades of sandstone undernieth. they are pumping water into the holes to replace any lost oil. But if you stick enough weight over the top of it, either the sand will push our of the way and the building will sink, or the weight causes the porus sandstone to collapse, and the water is forced up into the sand, making the building sink due the the liquification effect of the ground.

[JDRCRASH 53]

@timotheus4:  I agree, its kinda like the Iranian nuclear energy issue; the United States fears they could be developing nuclear weapons.  And you can't rule that out with some nutcase President who wants to destroy Israel, but also claims to be only interested in nuclear power for electricity.  The U.S. is trying impose sanctions, which is actually violating Iran's right to nuclear energy, according to the NPT.  We are going to have to realize that we can't win everything and be safe from anyone, eventually a nuke is going to hit us from somebody,  (and it will happen)  but we need to let other nations use nuclear energy for the very source that keeps the Global Economy going. 

But, the Empire State Building was built in only 13 months, and the contractors didn't even use 

computers to draw up tiring lists and schedules for building materials, and I think, in my opinion, is a true accomplishment.

Hmm, build a tower twice as large, in maybe, mmm, I don't know, 3 years, at most?, and you've 

easily got yourself a Burj Dubai size skyscraper.  The Burj will have taken 4-5 years to build, 

heh.

[mightygoose 92]

i know go back to the olden days then we would see some skyscrapers....

[timotheus4 39]

Incidentally, we don't "know" that Burj Dubai will be 2650 feet. The exact height is a secret, so that if anyone else announces any actionable plans that aren't pipe dreams like Millenium and the one with the forgettable name in Chicago that are higher, they can add a few stories so they will be sure of the title for a little longer.

And say what you want, Burj Dubai is a beautiful building! Millenium is just a big glass cone...

[jmjselect 0]

honestly they are both fugly.

but if one was to be built in my city, I would choose the dubai one.

[ledge69 0]

I the Burj Dubai the other one is reminding me of a Christmas tree, although I agree that Dubai will be a victim of it's own succes all this construction and roads seem to be the staple infastructure. Their metro system is taking a back seat but still an amazing place.

[ACEfanatic 7]

Originally posted by: jmjselect honestly they are both fugly.

but if one was to be built in my city, I would choose the dubai one.quote>

My sentiments entirely.

Meh.  Supertalls won't be economical for centuries, if ever...  I'll bet that Burj Dubai will be half-empty after it's first decade.

-ACE

[capitol1 1]

Funny enough the bd will never ever be 50% or less unoccupied..Source is scc

[Camaron 1]

Originally posted by: capitol1 Funny enough the bd will never ever be 50% or less unoccupied..Source is sccquote>

 

Both the World Trade Centre and the Empire State Building had much of there huge floor space empty for a long time after construction, but eventually they did full up.

[ACEfanatic 7]

Originally posted by: Camaron

Originally posted by: capitol1 Funny enough the bd will never ever be 50% or less unoccupied..Source is sccquote>

 

Both the World Trade Centre and the Empire State Building had much of there huge floor space empty for a long time after construction, but eventually they did full up.quote>

Mm... bit of a different situation there.

New York has a very diverse economical base.  Even after the Depression, it got right back up on its feet.

Dubai has... oil.  And tourism.  But tourism to the Middle East isn't really a prime sell right now, and the oil is on it's way out.  So Dubai is facing a very severe economical collapse, but they're happily building away, providing office space for an office market that won't exist within the next decade.

It may be full for the first few years, but it will not stay that way.

-ACE

[Camaron 1]

Originally posted by: ACEfanatic

Dubai has... oil.  And tourism.  But tourism to the Middle East isn't really a prime sell right now, and the oil is on it's way out.  So Dubai is facing a very severe economical collapse, but they're happily building away, providing office space for an office market that won't exist within the next decade.

It may be full for the first few years, but it will not stay that way.

-ACEquote>

 

Unfortunately yes, the oil will run out one day, this is a major reason why Dubai and surrounding areas are building away, to try and find a more longterm income that will replace that of the oil.