Three Rivers Region

[dedgren 830]

First off-

Thanks to all those who've commented, PM'd and emailed me on my birthday.  I'm 54 today, but I promise not to act like it.

...oooooh- that'll be hard...

I'll be sending direct PM responses over the next little bit, but you have all made my day a great one!  Thanks again for your thoughts.

___________________________

It's been a bit since we put anything up from the 3RR Map Lab.

The state of mapping today-= the major addition being the railroads.

Getting pretty dense, isn't it?  Well, remember you are viewing this at 20% of working size.

Here's just the railroad lines.

And here's some rails only at 100%.

Finally, here's a linkie to the Regional map at 50% size (2,048 pixels x 2,048 pixels).  I've saved it as a .gif, so it's only about 360 kb.  Enjoy.

Half-size regional map [ linkie ].

Later.

[sorchin 18]

Hey David Happy birthday my friend. If that was city life I'm glad I never bought it.. I'll say no more. As for your map it looks really detailed (probably because it is). Will we be seeing some in game shots of this great transit system soon? That should be fun to see.

[owenluby 1]

Oh i didn't realise!

Happy 54th Birthday David!

[jacqulina 162]

happy birthday david i hope you have a wonderfull day.very nice maps cant wait to see more

[van1357 15]

Happy Birthday David! I hope you had a great day with family and friends. As to your reply to my previous post, hopefully we can get in direct contact soon. I have been playing a bit with your idea, and I think many people will find it very useful. I look forward to talking to you more on this subject later. Anyway, onto some of the contents of your more recent posts…

Ah, Alaska, I would love to visit one day! So much beautiful scenery, and mountains! Mt. McKinley [link] is nearly three times higher than Mt. Kosciuszko [link], the highest point on the Australian mainland. So, mountains to us Australians are like hills to you Alaskans! (or do you prefer the term Americans?).

Thanks for posting those wonderful pics. That “igloo” is one strange piece of architecture! I can imagine people driving down the road in awe of the natural beauty around them, and then, up ahead, they see this weirdly symmetrical rock. As they get closer, and then finally drive past it, they would probably say something in the line of, “What on earth is that thing doing here?!”

My favourite photo is the one directly below the “igloo.” Now that is a mountain! Just what I would come to see. Though, I would find it hard concentrating on the road seeing that sort of scenery out of my front windscreen! Anyway, what a wonderful part of the world you live in.

Glad to see that you got back home from your adventure safely. A 550-600 km trip is a fair way! My family and I travel from Cooma [link] up to Newcastle [link] a couple of time per year and its about the same distance. We usually do it in about 6-7 hours depending on how long and how many times we stop. We also go through Sydney [link] which, if hit at the wrong time of day, can add an hour or two to the trip…

Onto your most recent post. I’m didn’t have much to say in my PM, but I only had a couple of minutes, and I had to send a quick message to say what I said! Also, the regional transport map is looking great. The layout of the rail is very well done, and I like how you have drawn it on the map (It actually looks like rail!). I hope we can see some of it in-game soon…

Well, thankyou for sharing this journal and many other interesting things with us all. Once again, Happy Birthday, and I look forward to seeing more of your excellent work/play in the near future…

[psteverific 8]

Well Happy Birthday!

And by the way, I've really been appreciating your work on mapping, it's something thats been on my 'to do' list for some time.

Once I finally do get around to that, this thread will prove a valuable resource

[bat 6]

Happy Birthday!

Great work! The map looks fantastic!

bat

[dedgren 830]

Adding route numbers...

Off to court.

Later.

[jacqulina 162]

great map,well planned love the route numbers

[Gaston 0]

Another great update.   Hope your birthday was fantastic.    Did you have cake and ice cream.   (Hope it wasn't the native alaskan "ice cream")   Anyone know what the Native Alaskan's ice cream is made from?    < Just another trivia question.     Amazing what you will learn coming to this CJ isn't it?

BTW, David I see you caught my "Moose and Squirrel" reference.  LOL.      

 

You sly devil you...pushing my R&B [ linkie ] button.  quote>

[Gaston 0]

<Sorry to double post but I had to show my new avatar.   Koool huh?

[Nik-nik 3]

Birthday.....huh?

Me not know!

Happy Birthday

So did you gave yourself some more enjoyment hours on City Life (  ?

As Jaqui put so nicely Great picture, love the sea and the bridge.........  NOT.

The map is once again showing a madman's genius.

Enough smileys for one day for you......

Nik-Nik

[Darmok 34]

David I salute your dedication on that mapping project....

And also take the opportunity of wishing you many more birthdays to come.

And to those who say that life begins at 50, I'll say this:

I totaly disagree, life begin every morning when you wake up!

and boy is it full of possibilities!

Happy birthday my friend,

From a fellow also over the 5-0 barrier!

John

[Gaston 0]

David,

     Darmok said

"And to those who say that life begins at 50, I'll say this:

I totaly disagree, life begin every morning when you wake up!

and boy is it full of possibilities! "quote>

      I had heard something similar....

               They say that the memory is the second thing to go...

                             I just wish I could remember wht the heck the first thing was.  

[lilred731 0]

Happy Birthday Dedgren! Your use of Paint Shop Pro is outstanding. I myself am having problems using it. I don't understand a lot about the program. I use it to make things for my business. Once again happy birthday.

[Tommy_Vercetti3 3]

Birthday? I didn't know! Happy late late late birthday to you! Nice maps too. =D

[dedgren 830]

I'm sorry, I just couldn't avoid participating in the Google map craze...

Getting there?

You be the judge...

A big mapping update coming your way within the next 24h or so.

Later.

[crazychickensc12 84]

That looks really nice dedgren, your transportation maps are really good im going to do something like that in my new CJ and these give me some great ideas!!

[Yoman3 5]

Well I cant see the last update but from the other pics I can tell your rly good at Paint shop pro!! Too bad I suck at PS...lol

[Gaston 0]

I'm sorry, I just couldn't avoid participating in the Google map craze...quote>

I guess I didn't even know there was a google map craze.   But then again I am not really one for fads any way.    I am starting to think that I might have to replace my 8-tracks pretty soon.   Hmmm, come to think about it my BETA tapes are a bit dated as well.

      Ooooooo,   Has anyone seen that episode of Gilligan's Island where they almost get off the island, but Gilligan messes it all up and they are stuck there again.    You know the one,  where the Professor makes something or other outta bamboo and coconuts and then the Skipper hits Gilligan with his hat.     I love that episode don't you.        mmmm.  Guess it is just me.     Oh well, I might as well listen to my new Partridge Family tape.      KerChunk   I think I love you but what am I........    Ooops sorry I didn't realize I was singing out load.

     Oh yeah and I suppose no one ever did anwser my trivia question.      

(Hope it wasn't the native alaskan "ice cream")   Anyone know what the Native Alaskan's ice cream is made from?  quote>

     It is basically suet with berries added to it.    So fat (I think from seal or maybe bear) mushed up and then berries added.    Doesn't sound too appealing but, then again I have never tried it.  LOL    I can't imagine it would fall into the diet that my doctors have me on though. 

[asturianu 4]

Sorry, but i couldn't post before! Happy birthday, David! And thanks for your lovely comment in my cj. 3RR transportation maps are very good!

[sorchin 18]

Great job my friend. I'm looking forward to that big update..

[dedgren 830]

I was bad.

I went leaf peeping today...

...so I'm still workin' on the update.  If you're lucky, I'll have the usual insomnia and you'll see it tonight.

The pic was taken about 15 miles north of my house on the road to Hatcher Pass.   I took about 100 of the most beautiful shots I've ever seen.

Later. 

[Rayden 7]

Those photos of yours... Those sceneries...

[owenluby 1]

Wow, you are very lucky to live in such a nice area. It must be refreshing to walk out the door everyday... ahhh...

Talking about maps, I really like the google map design, but i prefer this. It is the Melway street directory... I am a big maphead so I pretty much know everypage of it

I reckon it would look OK as a style of your map. Now thats just a thoguht, not a suggestion. I don't want to make you do it all over again.... I reckon it would really suit 3RR.

When i get round to mapping... Im getting very excited just thinking about it!... I will probably do that style...

Keep an eye out.

PS. It's in Melbourne....(Hence the name)

Cant wait for more.

EDIT: you may have to zoom into a capital city.... go to Melbourne... it's better than the rest...

[dedgren 830]

I haven't put up a header pic in a while...

________________________

Scale - From the Game to the Real World

So we're still talking about scale.  You'll recall the last time we did this [ linkie ] we arrived at the following.

	SIZE	m/km	f/mi
AREA
Grid Square		16m	50ft
Small City		1km	.66mi
Medium City		2km	1.25mi
Large City		4km	2.5mi

You'll also recall that I have that odd US preference for non-metric measurement, so when I think about distances in 3RR, I think in feet and miles.

...silly me, I know...

But that's actually important, as you'll see.  One's sense of place has very much to do with one's sense of space...

...hey, that's pretty good...

...and so if I have a well-settled mental picture of things I'm familiar with being "a mile or so apart" in the real world that I want to accurately depict in 3RR, forcing myself to think in metric units of measurement necessarily destroys that picture.  The measurement system I've spent 50 years or so using and applying is an integral part of the way I perceive things.

That said, if you think in "metric"...

...as I know most of you do...

...there is no "right or wrong" here.  There's just the way I do it...and that other way.

________________________

Okay, so where are we headed with all this?  I'll start by telling you a horrible, if poorly kept secret.  Three Rivers Region is wildly unrealistic in terms of its scale.  So unrealistic, in fact, that I have more than once in recent weeks considered calling the whole thing a learning experience and starting over.

But, you say, the pics look really nice...and the maps are pretty neat, too.  What the heck is he talking about?

Let's look at some RL places in the form of Google maps. n.b. UPDATE:  (9-26-06 8:30 a.m. AST) Maps are up, but that's all.

Here's New Orleans.

#1

Washington, D. C.

#2

New York City.

#3

Changing coasts, San Francisco.

#4

A bit to the south, Los Angeles.

#5

Phoenix.

#6

Minneapolis.  Houston.  UPDATE:  (9-28-06)  Heh.  Thanks, Gaston!

#7

Okay, now here's one more map...

#8

...Three Rivers Region.  Look in the lower left hand corner.  You'll see a scale bar.  If you compare it to the other maps, you'll see that it's the same as in the preceding seven maps.

Take a minute to compare the 3RR map with the ones that precede it.  You'll see that the highways, Avenues, roads (major and minor roads in 3RR) and streets (local roads in 3RR) are the same width.  Note that I have as yet mapped far fewer local roads than in the real urban areas.

...music from Jeopardy [ linkie ] plays...

...doo...DOOH!

Okay, so I'm sure you've noticed that all these maps represent exactly the same area on the ground.  If you've been paying attention to previous posts, you'll also know that this area is 10 miles by 10 miles, which I've said are the dimensions of 3RR.  That's 100 square miles.

Another way of looking at this is, if Three Rivers Region fell out of the sky on top of Houston (map #7), it would just about completely cover the area bounded by Inner Loop I-610.  Here's a map that will help put that in proper perspective.

#9

This map covers an area of 50 miles by 50 miles.  Twenty-five Three Rivers Regions could be placed on it.  I'll note that Houston is one of the most freeway-dense cities in the United States.

So here's a side-by-side comparison of Houston and Three Rivers Region.

#10

So are there too many freeways in 3RR...or too few in Houston?  Sadly, the answer is that 3RR, which I had intended to be an urban "core" area of about 5 miles on each side (the original four (SC4 large city) townships of Pineshore, Wind River, Cold Lake and Grand Lake) surrounded by farms, woodlands and other open space, is far, far too compressed as a matter of realistic scale.  In my next post, part two of this update, we'll take a look at the consequences of my mistake, and start talking about what might be done about it.

Later.

n.b.:  As of 7:45 a.m. Alaska time (GMT-9) on the 25th I'm off to work.  If you are seeing this message at the bottom of this post, it means the update, which is lengthy, is still not complete.  Please consideryourself invited to check back over the next day or so, as I plan to work on it over that time, and hope to have the entire thing completed before leaving for the office tomorrow morning.

UPDATE:  (9-26-06 8:30 a.m. AST)  The need to write an emergency filing due in court this morning kept me from doing anything further besides getting the maps posted you see this morning and writing this hasty comment- I'll hopefully return to this during the evening today.

UPDATE2:  (9-26-06 7:50 p.m. AST)  Working...working....

UPDATE3:  (9-28-06)  Replaced original Houston pic and Houston-3RR side-by-side pic with properly scaled ones.  Added area map of Houston (50 mi x 50 mi) and associated text.

Have a great day, wherever you are.

David

[Gaston 0]

David,

     Glad you put the green box thingy up.    I was starting to worry that something was wrong with my computer.   LOL    I'll check back later.          (ever try typing with a cat sitting on you left hand and arm.     TRUST ME it ain't easy.)

[threestooges 0]

Pending the rest of the post, I would say don''t worry about the scale thing and make it what you want (just don't let perfectionism prevent you from going forward at least). As far as this being a learning experience, I certainly wouldn't consider it to be a failure, but I am really waiting to see what you're coming up with next. Last but not least, great shot of the river (brings back memories from fall when I lived in Reno).

-After post completed-9/27/2006-

I see what you mean now, and I have been noticing the same with my city/region. It seems, with the way the buildings are scaled, that cities seem larger when you are actually in the city view. A life-sized city center/region would be something along the lines of The Savannah Way by Shadow_Assassin (which if I recall, you are familiar with). I wouldn't want to see you scrap the whole thing though, as there has been some significant progress made. Perhaps, expand the region, or forgo the original "master plan" in favor of some realistic urban/rural redesign. It may end up looking like LA (pic 5) which incidentally, the area you chose to show: the intersection of the 110, 10, and 101, is probably one of the most convoluted, irritating, interchanges that has ever been made. There is an offramp (I kid you not) that branches off and encompasses 4 actual exits. The 101/110 interchange: I have never once found my way through it successfully as it is likely the ultimate "spaghetti bowl" of (at very least) LA (check it out on google earth sometime up close and try to follow a path). Long-winded aside....aside...whatever comes from this will likely be bigger and better than what it is now.

[tchaos713 5]

Dang, I should never go on vacation...

I missed four pages of updates, some stupid school administrators (what's that I hear about people rising to the level of their incompetance?), and one important birthday!

@Gaston: I long ago convinced my cat that she shouldn't bother me when I was typing...good luck...

[Shadow Assassin 336]

Well, I can't really comment on your last few updates, since it's text-only at the moment (your images, for some reason, seem to be broken). Must be my end... The google map images are the only ones that are not showing up.

A conspirancy, perhaps?