Communist ideas

[afamm 0]

wow sepsis where did you get all the communist billboards and monuments id love to have somethihg like that!!!!!!!!!!

[sepsis 17]

Originally posted by: afamm wow sepsis where did you get all the communist billboards and monuments id love to have somethihg like that!!!!!!!!!!quote>

 

The billboards are made by me, though not released..

Check out my CJ at page 7 for more billboards:

https://www.simtropolis.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=36&threadid=53428

[ThomasAH 0]

Hey Yoman thanks for the comment in my cj,

You asked to tell something to create a socialist region, 

First thing what I did is to change the taxes of the high tech industries, and all the high wealth commercial buildings and R$$$ too $20. I did this so they wont grow.

I also use only the chigaco 1890 and the New York 1940 buildings styls. 

Also DON'T use the super ordinance mod because you would get all those high wealth building even if your taxes are on 20$.

A milltitary base looks really nice in a socialist city but don't use the very modern stuff.

If you have any questions you could always sent a PM.

Don't mind my bad English

TOP SECRET: A region view what I made so far, It's a weak old so I have made alot more.

The GLR looks really great in a socialist region/city

I hope this helped you a bit!

btw: your author icon doesn't work

Thomas

Edit: aargh the last pic doesn't work, please wait a sec. problem fixed now

[Arkitechx 0]

It seems that you all have the false idea of what a socialist city would be. In reality, a socialist city shold be filled with modern/futuristic buildings and modes of transportation. When I speak of modernism I speak of buildings like these: Also, true socialist societies can be linear cities connectiong old cities. Another thing that Trotsky argued for was the erasing of the divisions between the city and the country side. I am imagining fields next to skyscrapers or something like that. Unfortunately the economic settings in SC4 are set up for a city in the world of the market with certain classes etc. I mean, if you want to keep that nostalgia of the early twentyeth century that's fine. After all it's your city. However, as a socialist with interests in architecture and urban planing (who has studies some soviet urban stuff) I would tell you that alot of what we think of as 'communist' when we see a city, is actually stalinist. For example, the large moscow university or the palace of science and culture in Warsaw.

[ThomasAH 0]

Hey Arkitechx thanks,

I will add some modern stuff to my cj.

[pnorrell 4]

I like that this thread has developed into an ongoing discussion of communist city-building concepts. Good stuff here.

As someone who's lived in the former Soviet Union for the past 9 years, a few observations:

- Yes, there's some "futurist" architecture around - although the designs would generally have been considered cutting edge and inspiring in the west  anywhere between 10-40 years before their construction here. The Euro tile set includes some C buildings that look like Soviet futurist designs. There are also lots of Capitol Records Building clones around the cities of the FSU. Also some brutalist, as someone mentioned earlier, but nowhere near as much as most people think.

- There is, however, an enormous amount of drab architecture, which doesn't make it brutalist or anything else... but... utilitarian. Stalinist is a good adjective. The most grandiose tends to be intimidating and vaguely ominous. The mundane tends to be cold, soulless, prefabricated and cheap. This aspect is very hard to reproduce in SC4, perhaps because few set out to make something that looks drab and cheap. You would essentially need a whole new tileset, with earth-tone, nondescript 2-5 story structures to replace every C and R default for low and medium densities. For high density, there is an ample selection of high-rise apartment blocks, but not very much commercial. Yes, even communism had a commercial sector - stores, markets and offices - though nothing like a western downtown.

- Since we're really talking about European communism - the countries of the former Warsaw Pact - it's important to remember that almost all of these cities have histories going back several hundred years or perhaps even more (Kiev's 1,500 years old, for example). Communism lasted just over 70 years at the longest, or just over 40 at the shortest, so all of these places looked predominantly European when communism began and only the ones that were totally rebuilt, were founded or expanded drastically after the war failed to retain that European appearance. In many, many cases, the European center still exists and is ringed by communist apartment blocks constructed around the perimeter.

- Parks. Give them credit, the communists were believers in green spaces. Though there are some examples of big "central" parks, most communist cities have many sizeable parks at frequent intervals, making for pretty green cities. Plazas too - to give people a place to gather together and bask in the glory of the revolution, the great patriotic war, the heroic mothers or whatever...

- Compact. This is not to say small, but concentrated, particularly to facilitate public transport and denser construction. The mention of fields running right up to the high-rise apartments at the edge of the city is right on the mark. No suburbs and no urban sprawl. Smaller streets and fewer of them, since you had to wait years to be issued a car. Also, every city over 1 million people in the Soviet Union was supposed to have a subway, even if it was just a few stops. Public transport is a big, big deal in these places. To be realistic, you have to limit road traffic.

With all this in mind, go back and have a look at Rodina. Sepsis has got all of the above. He truly "gets it" - good, bad and ugly.

The only tileset you can do without is Houston, IMO. That one seems to represent the excess and ostentation of western capitalism like no other and its buildings have no place in a communist city.

One more thing... SC4 is particularly good for creating a post-communist city, as the jumbling of styles is actually fairly realistic in reproducing the chaos of construction and city planning in the years since the collapse of communism.

[sir scott 0]

i suppose if you are going for a purist communist state than you should try and cut back on chuches and cathederals (opiate of the masses etc) , but obiously if you want a realistic communist state then those things would still be there. even stalin never managed to wipe out russian orthodox churches entirely

other than that i suppose some grand showpiece schemes might be appropriate , giant dams , railways , and canals were all hallmarks of the soviet 5 year plans

[Yoman3 5]

OK i think think that this is growing great but now that i think it over i am going tfor a post communism feeling as i want to build somthing that bascialy looks like Moscow

These comments are great and i am very glad i started this fourm

Wow you lived in the USSR: you Russian?

[Arkitechx 0]

I just wanted to add to the discussion and to say that I have been working on a socialist city-state in sc4. It is ofcourse, not what you might expect. Anyway, to show what I mean about early soviet architecture, here are some of the main architects of the time: Vesnin Brothers 

Please keep all images at 800x600, or less. Mr. C.

 Leonidov: Ivan Il'ich Leonidov so these are just some shots of what many architects had planned.... here is my soviet city-state:http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=330168&page=7&pp=20

[sepsis 17]

I've already posted these pics elsewhere on ST, but I think they also belong here in the Communist thread..

Outskirts of Vodo-Varbinsk (a northern Rodinian town, very close to the Russian border)

Vodo-Varbinsk: Border checkpoint.

[Yoman3 5]

great pics sepis whered you get the border gaurd stuff on the ave.

[2ch.net simplayer 180]

Wow! That city is exactly what communist residentail blocks are like!!! Rows of Pyatietazhki

[The boy formerly known as Evil Muzz 27]

Sepsis, that border control looks like a melee! If Rodina is so bad that everyone wants to escape to Russia, it must be TERRIBLE!!! Lol, j/k. Very nice border stuff, and what you showed in Vodo-Varbinsk was exactly what I was ghoing to suggest, but I din't have pictures. Lol.

[tankmank 853]

good luck

[plasticboy 36]

pnorrell has a very good point.

I'm a Russian native and have lived in a communist-type city described above for most of my life.

Moscow with its largely untouched historic center will be a challenge to reproduce. However smaller cities were built according to a very basic scheme. Here are some of the most important aspects you should consider when building your own communist city :

- major roads and boulevards around considerable in their size residential blocks. One major avenue going across the city center(for holding military parades, etc) with Lenin monuments and squares along it. Some narrow streets inside the residential blocks. (PM me for plans !)

- Mostly mid- and high rise residential complexes. Residential buildings should be placed at the 45-degree(practically impossible in Simcity) or 90-degree angle to each other creating small open spaces in between them (titled "dvor" ). Dvors usually (but not always, since the funding was always variable) have some kids' playgrounds, lots cloth lines, asphalt walk paths, and some trees(mostly maples where I used to live).

!!Keep in mind the height dynamic of the residential buildings!! More 9-12 floor buildings in the city centre along major roads, and 5(5are more traditional)-7-floor just behind the tall ones.

- Commercial zones:

NO big ones!

1) Type 1: a small commercial district in the geographic center of your city. Should have several LARGE retail "businesses" + a few 9-12 floor talls (governmental distribution centers) . This district must have a direct link to one of the major transportation hubs, it's either bus station or train station(Airports were traditionally built far away from habitant zones).

2) Type 2: impossible to re-create in SimCity. Retail stores on the first floor of residential buildings along major streets. In addition, one or two grocery shops for every 3-4 dvors is a standard.

-Industrial zones:

One big industrial zone outside the city boundaries. Some minor industrial stripes close to transportation hubs. Keep in mind that major mining facilities were bread and milk for many of the Stalinist era settlements.

-Transportation:

-Excellent public transportation system. And I mean "excellent": at least one bus stop very 5-6 cells. At least one major city bus station. Probably some trams..

Education:

- enough schools for every part of the town. Education should be one of your main expenditure. At least two community colleges (~one for every 50,000 people). 2-3 universities in a city of at least 300,000 are a must have. At least one "pioneers center"(a number of clubs of interests for the youth gathered under one roof)

Civic:

All civic buildings should be located in the central part of the city. At least one local government building in every part of the town. Police booth every once and a while(and virtually no crime).

Leisure/entertainment

Lots cinemas, at least two-three drama theaters. Also consider building a central park with a ferris wheel (very common) ;-) . One major stadium(especially important for all kinds of local Olympic games...). Some smaller parks or green stripes along the major streets with WWII memorials.

Gosh, it's getting too late. So I'm gonna stop here. If you have any questions, feel free to PM me. I can even help you with the map. G'luck!!! : )))

[cifa 7]

I didn't understand if communist cities are prevalently rs, in cimcity, or rsss...lol ....

[plasticboy 36]

They're mostly rzzz... at least to me they are... lol Seriously, I'd say R$$ since that was the idea behind the Russian communist vision of socialism.

[Alkaola 18]

brilliant pics Sepsis, those cities reminds me from cities like ''Vorkuta'' and '' Norilsk'' .... but in those cities the buildings are just a bit smaller i got a pic

so this is the city of Vorkuta on June 8 (temperature 0c)

this city has a miserable climate .. almost never warm weather ... winter temperatures dropping below -40c very often ...

Hey sepsis, just a question is it possible to load some of those communistic lots up to the exchange ? After all you aren't active anymore, it woul be great to have some of those buildings

[sepsis 17]

  Hey sepsis, just a question is it possible to load some of those communistic lots up to the exchange ? After all you aren't active anymore, it woul be great to have some of those buildingsquote>

 

Oh I'm still very active indeed..making new lots every day..

[Alkaola 18]

contact me if you wanna share it sepsis ..

[yoder7652 21]

hey sepsis...nice to see you around ST....miss your updates in Rodina, but I've managed to check your progress out over on PEG site...yours is one of my favorite CJs

[DanNukesAll 0]

tax the people to death(i think sc's max is 20%) you won't get a true communist city/region/whatever you create but yeah quote>

Communist places never taxed anyone, they got there money from the buissness that they all own (all buissness were taken away from owners and all were controled by goverment))

[arco 0]

Hi everyone!

I've read here many _real_ tips on creating such city (especially from those, who lived or lives in former USSR). I'd like to add something, if no one mentioned these :

- ussr cities are really mostly residential, _no_ zoning, you can see lots of res buildings anywhere in the city, or a lot of industry right in the middle of the historical center (this is awefull, i know ).

- residential districts are really big and not rectangular shaped. USSR's city builders decided not to build cities in classic blocks structure in 60's i guess. So you have not many roads (maybe just ran out of cummunist names to name them ), and most of them are curved. I can post some maps if anyone wants me to

- concerning old cities (such as Kyiv (or Kiev in russian), which i live in), they might have very beautiful 19th century architecture with ugly premade concrete "boxes" ruining everything . E.g. There is such ugly res "box" right in front of the one of the best opera houses in Europe in Kyiv.

- and, just wanted to say about China. It's "commercially" not communist now. Lots of advertisement, western conpanies - it's not really communism, is it?

- IMHO it's not possible to recreate such city in SimCity. No regular blocks, no proper economic model, other way of public transortation arranging...

Here are some pics of Kyiv (once, socialistic city, fortunately not anymore ):

but, to be fair Kyiv is much more beautiful than that

[Yoman3 5]

Wow this is comming along great I like that tram through the ruined building

[sircanis 0]

Going beyond the appearance, is there a MOD out there that would increase the sims tolerance for taxes, and turn off fares for mass transit and things, so that everything was paid for by tax (since tolls and fares are regressive)? I'd like the sims to have more tolerance for transit as well, and be willing to walk further. Then you could really start to have a utopian city.

[YourNickname 0]

For a more modern, still Communist look at urbanism, may I suggest Pyongyang? It's known for having lots, and lots, and lots of wide, wide avenues which, as you probably already know, are completely devoid of traffic (there isn't one traffic light in Pyongyang). Also, I think pedestrian traffic concentrates around the smaller streets, ironically.

Differences from Communist Bloc European Countries:

-The city actually took a Communistic approach to skyscrapers, something no other city has done. They build tall, symetric, aesthetic buildings - their taller ones tend to be hotels to showcase for foreigners. Like the avenues, these things are empty.

-Their high rises also seem to have odd shapes. I notice a common one is having a sort of buldge on the side of it. I think it's to escape purely square buildings by providing some difference, if only minor.

-Their highrises vary in height. Only the pre-1970 construction has block after block of the same highrise.

-The earthtones of Europe are not popular with post-1970 construction. Most buildings after that are painted egg shell white or some pastel pink, blue or green.

-More important civic buildings emulate their purpose, or try to stress history. The Pyongyang Library is very 18th Century Korean, but I believe it was built in the 1980s. Their stadiums (most built for Olympics that will never, ever be held there ) are all grandiose, built to look like whatever sport they would hold (a dumbell for weighlifting).

-Lots of unfinished construction. The tallest building in Pyongyang, a giant pyramid-shaped skyscraper is currently under construction. It will be the tallest hotel in the world when completed (100-some stories, if memory serves)... but, it's been "under construction" since 1991, and since 199-something, no work has been done. There's a big crane that's been hanging off of it for over a deacde, completely still. No glass has been fitted in the windows, and only 90% of the skeleton superstructure is complete.

-One, and only one, commercial district (along the second largest of their extra-large avenues) that has big, brick-looking buildings that house Department Stores, Theatres, and some other stuff.

-Trees. Lining. Everything.

-Big, BIG, factories randomly placed in the middle of things.

-Scenic monuments that stress tranquility and symetry. While the city tries to play with flora and fauna everywhere else, the monuments are devoid of them, to stress the great achievements of North Korean urbanization, that you are supposed to be able to see all around you. I think.

-No Suburbs, but no simple utilitarian design. The city built around it's geography, and tries to bend to it more often than not.

Sim City 4 plays up Capitalism, so I don't see how you can really have a Communist city in the game, but you can try for one that looks a lot like it.

Not to delve into politics, but the idea that Communist cities are meant to be utopian is... foolish. I don't think even the most ideallic Communist Urban planners thought they were creating Utopias. Communist cities were designed for simplistic purposes: Simplicity, conformity, comfort, utility, ease of movement, population/workfroce containment, and ease of control. Essentially, most were built - either intentionally or unintentionally - in order to treat people like cattle. Pools for the State's economy. Not utopia.

[Cjah 15]

I'm getting inspired all over again....yes...I must make a communist CJ!

[ExiL3 10]

well not all areas that were built under a period of socialism have to be all gray. In Norway we have areas like that everywhere, people living there are actually very satisfied.

examples:

Furuset, Oslo:

Lodalen, Oslo:

planned:

Old pic,  Bøler, Oslo:

Enerhaugen oslo:

many of these areas in Norway are seen as "trendy" today...

[tomtad23 0]

Originally posted by: sepsis

Originally posted by: afamm wow sepsis where did you get all the communist billboards and monuments id love to have somethihg like that!!!!!!!!!!quote>

 

The billboards are made by me, though not released..

Check out my CJ at page 7 for more billboards:

https://www.simtropolis.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=36&threadid=53428

quote>

Could you release the billborads?

[DreTitans23 2]

Great Ideas of a Communist nation. Karl Marx was a very smart man who took his ideas and formed the Marxist Society, Utopia.