High Speed Rail Project

[warrior 169]

Do you mean be able to have transition from Rail to GHSR, because that will be up to other people not me.

Also all GHSR related questions/issues should be posted in the GHSR thread.

And all that don't know what GHSR is, it's Ground High Speed Rail.

[bwatterud 7]

Answering the question, I like answer 4. I don't think you should have complete overpass puzzle pieces though, just additions to the NAM elevated Road/Ave pieces.

[warrior 169]

Thanks bwatterwud: I have posted in the GHSR thread that, what you have sugested is what I'm going to do, thnaks for saving me a lot of time.

Anyone looking for GHSR or wants to post about it please post in the GHSR thread here:

www.simtropolis.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=124&threadid=92176&enterthread=y

[ovchar 1]

It is Difficult

- to connect these electric high-speed elevated rails,is required small(fluent) gradients or turns(not compatible often even between itself) and often impossible from under this elevated speed rails deflect standart trains way.

I do not use

high speed elevated rail sections because their it is difficult to connect and it is necessary much plow and levels land for exact joining such way -rails not flexible.

[warrior 169]

Sorry but I don't understand what you are saying, nothing personal and no offence is intended.

[Elaclairee 0]

I think it was something like... He wants a translator because he doesn't understand you.

EDIT: Ah, yes... Russian. Russian-to-English translations are normally very crude. Not sure if we have anyone fluent in Russian on ST though...

[Glenni 1,444]

well... we do have marrast.. who's under a diff username now..

[mayormot 4]

I read ovchar's post as "HSR requires very gentle grades, and the turns are difficult to make, and they take up extra tile space. You cannot run other networks under those extra-large curves, which gets in the way of ground rail and other ground networks sometimes. I do not use HSR because it is too much trouble to work with."

I decided to try the HSRP beta.. Feedback:

First, it's really amazing, and I don't even mind the awkward curve placement. The way those turns and switches look, it's worth it. Good trade.

Uh-oh... the hsrp.dat file contains a pathfinding exemplar that overrides the NAM's pathfinding plugins. It also contains a network placement parameters exemplar that overrides the monorail settings in many popular tunnel-and-slope mods. Neither of these exemplars should be included with the main mod due to the conflict potential. I've removed them from mine and it's an improvement.

.

The pathfinding exemplar is how the game finds jobs for sims and gets them there. Having HSR go 1000 times faster than any other mode of transport throws things off-balance. Since one exemplar controls ALL the transit networks, the HSRP.DAT file overrides the NAM's pathfinding and automata plugins, so installing HSRP not only makes your HSR network go fast, it also changes the speeds of your roads, highways, subways... not good, this. HSR shouldn't grow tentacles and start grabbing other networks' parameters like that.

The pathfinding one in particular is very bad. If you want it to look like the HSR train goes very fast, do it with an *automata* tuning exemplar override, which controls how vehicles are shown moving on-screen when the player zooms in, but does not affect gameplay or job-finding. And keep it modular, as a separate file, so those who custom-tuned their own automoata exemplars, or who use one of the "crime mods," can delete it to avoid conflicts. The Maxis monorail goes about 200kph / 125 MPH by default, twice as fast as any other network. That's quite fast enough. What's important to gameplay isn't how "fast" the roads and rails are in absolute terms, but how fast they are *realative to each other*.

In a similar vein, there is a "network placement tuning parameters" exemplar that overrides the monorail settings, in order to provide smooth, gradual hills for the HSRP. This exemplar overrides a whole bunch of tunnel/slope mods from the STEX. Again, good idea, but keep it modular, in a separate file, so those who use other mods don't have to play "hunt the wampus" trying to figure out why their usual mod isn't working any more.

The supplied HSR train that overrides monorail looks great too. You know what I'm about to say, right? Separate File.

There are two icons in my rail menu for laying high-speed rail... one is the custom one that was made for the HSRP, the other is the original monorail icon that was overridden by the HSRP's. There's no need for a custom icon if the Maxis monorail one has been changed to HSR. This will be fixed when HSR/GHSR is put into the NAM, I'm sure.

[warrior 169]

Wow long post, if the placement parameters(slope) were not included the HSRP would be \/\/\/\/\, although the dips would be shallower the track would be jagged on unlevel terrain and would not be realistic at all. People who have the NAM (99% I must admit) have to change the NAM network speed exemplar themselves as the HSRP was released a while ago. I did not know the HSRP changes the other network speeds.

I have not had the double icon problem, I didn't know it occured with the HSRP/ I didn't know it was possible.

It would be hard, if possible to get other networks under the curves of HSRP

The speed of HSR/GHSR when put in the NAM will have to be the same as monorail. It is a limitation of the game we can't get around, yet hopefully. Same with the slopes.

If it was made modualr there is likely to be more people not understanding what file to put where, when, like there was just after the latest NAM release.

[mayormot 4]

Wow, fast reply.  And yes, I can be a bit wordy.  Sorry.

No double-icon for you?  Weird.  I pulled the menu-icon exemplar out of hsrp.dat, and now I only have one icon also.   

As I understand transit modding, laying networks under those curves means making a special S3D model for every possible undercrossing, with RULs and SC4PATHs galore... seems like a long way to go for a marginal benefit - "Detail work" for a more mature project, perhaps?

Anyway, thanks for picking up the HSR and running with it - I never did like the monorail, and HSR frees up the Elevated rail "niche" so it can complete the El/GLR/Sub trifecta.  I'm thinking of making a texture override for HSR that uses a simulated third-rail in lieu of the caternaries, and porting the BRF DC Metro-style trains to it, for modeling American systems like WMATA and BART... it should just require pulling out the Type 21 exemplars for the caternaries and wires, and replacing the rail textures with something approriate, right? 

And oh yeah, I know... "modular" means a small army of TMs who read step 1 of a six-step procedure, skip steps 2-6, then come posting on the board that they "followed the instructions" and it "doesn't work."  *sigh*   McDonald's has pictures on their cash registers for similar reasons.  :/

 

[warrior 169]

Originally posted by: mayormotave one icon also.   

As I understand transit modding, laying networks under those curves means making a special S3D model for every possible undercrossing, with RULs and SC4PATHs galore... seems like a long way to go for a marginal benefit - "Detail work" for a more mature project, perhaps?

 quote>

Exactly, do you actually know how to RUL? Just wondering.

Anyway, thanks for picking up the HSR and running with it - 

No Problem

I never did like the monorail, and HSR frees up the Elevated rail "niche" so it can complete the El/GLR/Sub trifecta.

Sorry, I don't understand 100% what you are saying.

  I'm thinking of making a texture override for HSR that uses a simulated third-rail in lieu of the caternaries, and porting the BRF DC Metro-style trains to it, for modeling American systems like WMATA and BART... it should just require pulling out the Type 21 exemplars for the caternaries and wires, and replacing the rail textures with something approriate, right?  

As I'm not american I don't know what BART and WMATA are but they sound interesting, explain?

Texture override again sounds interesting, but slightly old-fashioned. I would love it if you had concept pictures, or if you could explain in more words/detail. 

HALFEDIT: By 3rd rail do you mean, | ||  || | or | |  | |  | |? each | being a single piece of rail/metal.

[mayormot 4]

Originally posted by: warrior

Exactly, do you actually know how to RUL? Just wondering.

quote>

Yes, I know RULs.  They're tedious, but no more so than third-semester Calculus.

What I meant about Elevated, GLR, and Subway is that they are all interchangeable.  Elevated can join to GLR can join to Subway, so I use them as a single network type that happens to be very flexible in case it needs to go under or over something.

So now, I treat the Maxis "Elevated Rail" and "Subway" as a special case of GLR for intra-city trams (compare the San Francisco Muni system), and use the HSR for my long-distance passenger rail system (compare the San Francisco BART system).  And there's still the regular old passenger rail system left over just in case I want it (compare CalTrain).

BART = Bay Area Rapid Transit.  WMATA = Washington (DC) Metropolitan Area Transit Authority, also known as "Metro."  The cars are large, about the same dimensions as a single-level heavy rail car, but there is no locomotive - each car contains its own electric motors for propulsion.  Power is supplied by an extra rail at ground level, instead of overhead wires.  Typically trains run in lengths of 4-10 cars.  And except for the overhead wires, their tracks and elevated structures look almost exactly like the HSR!

For pictures of "Third Rail" arrangements in the US and UK, see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_rail

[warrior 169]

Thanks for the explanation, know I understand.

I know how to texture overide RUL, and can just about make puzzle pieces 100% on my own.

What RUL/s do you know how to "do"?

Also did you learn from the DISCOVERY threads in Research and development forum?

EDIT: 600th post...

[Andreas Roth 607]

@mayormot: Way back in this thread, I made some suggestions about the file structure for the HSRP, and I also posted a fix that (I think) addressed the doubled icon and stuff like this. It's still saved in my attachments folder, so I attach it here again. I don't remember exactly what I fixed in this file, but maybe you can dig up my posting from back then.

hsrp_fixed.zip

[warrior 169]

Andreas: As you seem to know a lot about, transit modding, Is it possible to change the HSRP from replacing monorail to replacing EL-Rail, i Ask this because I need to do this for SimMars.

Is it possible?

If yes is it to much effect for to little outcome?

EDIT: Here is Andreas's original post about the fix.

Tropod provided me with a hint how to fix the doubled menu icons. All copies of the related exemplar file cause additional icons, so we have to make the original one invalid and add another one (the instance ID doesn't matter, only the button ID). Attached is a new HSRP dat, where I also extracted the Traffic Simulator exemplar file and put it into a separate DAT. You can easily load this one in Traffic Cop and adjust the values to your liking. Just download the attached ZIP file, extract it to your HSRP folder and overwrite the original hsrp.dat.

[Andreas Roth 607]

Well, it should be possible to use the el-rail instead of the monorail network for this purpose. As far as I'm aware of, the current HSRP beta is merely a cosmetic change of the monorail network, however, there are probably a small number of things that won't work - such as HSRP tunnels, since the el-rail network doesn't seem to have tunnels, but only subway connectors (either the in-game one, or the custom one that was created by morifari). Don't ask me how to do that, though, since I only know a bit of the theoretic side; I won't consider myself as a transit modder. Eventually, the HSRP should be included into the NAM, similar to the draggable GLR that we have now.

[warrior 169]

"Eventually, the HSRP should be included into the NAM, similar to the draggable GLR that we have now"

Yes but SimMars is going to use the use the HSRP to replace el-rail, and then have a Maglev or suspended monorail system replace monorail.

SimMars will need to have something similar to the NAM, because the textures need to replaced on most items and which ever network replaces monorail, the other will eventually be made draggable(like GLR)

[Axel986 0]

Ok boyz, I wish only to ask a question. Is it in program to make a Only-HSR station ? I mean a station without normal rail and el-rail. Ok, I can use the standard Sim City monorail station, but I wish to use one with all the correct textures for HSR. The looking effect using the monorail station is very bad. Thanks

[mayormot 4]

@AndreasRoth: Thanks for attaching the zip file.

@Axel: Yes, what you ask is possible, but it's probably best to just use the default monorail station for now.

@warror: Here's a picture of my US concept, and progress so far:

[warrior 169]

Nice train, is it yours may I ask?

So, so far you have taken off the T21s or is there somthing I haven't seen?

EDIT:I don't think you answered my last question about where you learnt RULs?

[mayormot 4]

@warrior:

The train is the Washington DC Metro elevated rail model by BRF, available on the STEX. I just changed the S3D and texture ID instances so it would appear on monorail/HSR networks.

To remove the overhead wires and poles, I only had to remove the HSRP props.dat file. That one file contained only the caternary props. The game seems to ignore nonexistent network props so it doesn't hurt anything. For my purposes, the only thing left to do is make replacement rail textures so it looks more like conventional railroad with concrete ties, and it's Metro, or at least it's close. Unfortunately I can't run Fishman, so this should be a challenge.

Everything I know about RULs was learned from working through RedLotus's Interchange Tutorial. I think it's available for download in the Omnibus?. The DISCOVERY threads are a good reference, but actually trying to follow RedLotus's guide, and then looking at some of the simpler NAM plugins like diagonal streets, is what really helped me most. I wish I had more time to spend on it, but Real Life always seems to intervene.

[warrior 169]

I know that the props file are the T21s, I must I didn't know the interchange tutorial contained anything about RULs, there is a thread at SC4D that is very helpful for overrides, I can't post a link at the moment because I cant copy and paste on a wii.

[jarrod 0]

has anybody had trouble with building tunnels? mine won't construct tunnels. if anybody could tell me why please send me a message.

[SC4BOY 20]

The HSP requires DEEP slopes for tunnels.. this is discussed somewhere in the thread (search "tunnel") early on.. I expect if you use the Simoncrie digger lot for monorail it will work fine. I built my HSRP long ago and have forgotten, but i recall it was not difficult.. so i expect you just don't have deep enuf slope (and the tunnel must be essentially level start to end as well)

[ytdytfyf678 0]

Here's some THSR pics, maybe they can help you

[galees 0]

Is this project still going?

[thisisbrilliant 0]

Hi all. I was just wondering if there has been any further development with this. I recently added HSRP to my city and have encountered huge problems with pathfinding and journey times. In fact I think I will have to get rid of HSRP and rebuild my city... This is not a complaint, I don't know anything about modding or how to solve pathfinding issues so I can't really offer an alternative... sorry about that! Just wondering if this project is ongoing.

I thought the problem was maybe due to the "commuting cirlcle" problem, but after redesgning my neighbor connections, I don't believe that is the cause of the pathfinding and commute time issues. 

Good luck if you are still developing HSRP!

[Cleaner475 150]

Its probably just dormant at the minute like a few projects hopefully it will pic up because I've been wanting this project to evlove so we don't have to choose between monorail and highspeed rail so we can just have both.

Richard

[Jersey_17011 0]

hey i posted a while ago asking how to uninstall the hsrp mod and i took all the necessary steps to take it out and its still in my game, i took out the files from the plugins folder but it still shows up in the game, whats wrong?

[thisisbrilliant 0]

what would happen if i just removed the HSRPpaths.dat file... let's find out.