Submenus DLL

[memo 1,444]

On 2/26/2024 at 9:18 PM, atsf189 said:

What is the purpose of the first part of the OccupantGroupsAlt number 0x00001005  I created a new instance number for the second input.

@atsf189 @Kel9509

Thanks for your interest. The 0x1005 ID is in fact a remnant Occupant Group that marks Civic buildings and it is not needed for this property. I have just removed it from the parks-submenus.dat file. Going forward, I suggest not including the 0x1005 in that property, but only the submenu ID(s). There's no functional difference though.

I have uploaded version 1.0.1 of the plugin which includes a small fix as well as revisions of the Readme to make the modding steps a bit clearer. I have renamed the "OccupantGroupsAlt" property to "Building Submenus" in order to avoid any confusion between occupant groups and submenus. The "Building Submenus" property now only contains the button IDs of the submenus that should contain the building. The new_properties.xml has been updated accordingly.

 

On 2/26/2024 at 3:25 AM, Kel9509 said:

1. Based on the readme, it appears that any "menu" listed in the Readme's table can have a new submenu.  So for instance, you can have a submenu underneath the Education menu.  Does this mean that, hypothetically, you could create a submenus separating schools, libraries, colleges/universities, and museums?  

Yes, this is possible – with the caveat that you may need to add the "Building Submenus" property to each of the building exemplars.

There are two minor restrictions: Flora items can only be included in submenus under the MMP Flora menu, and network items (such as puzzle piece buttons) can only be added to submenus in one of the transport menus. Buildings can generally be included everywhere though.

Moreover, submenus can be nested and there's no hard limit on the depth.

[atsf189 460]

26 minutes ago, memo said:

The new_properties.xml has been updated accordingly.

 

Where is the  new_properties.xml located at?

[Panda 209]

15 minutes ago, atsf189 said:

Where is the  new_properties.xml located at?

You can download it from github here: https://github.com/memo33/submenus-dll/blob/main/vendor/new_properties.xml

[Kel9509 1,363]

5 hours ago, Panda said:

EDITED 2/27/2024: Updated the XML to rename " OccupantGroupsAlt" to "Building Submenus" per revision 1.0.1 of the memo.submenus.dll.

For those who want to experiment with submenus and are using ILives Reader version 0.9.3, I've created an xml properties file that will let the reader properly show the new OccupantGroupsAlt property.  Download and save the following file: submenu_properties.xml

Panda, this is great for use in Reader 0.9.3.  When I followed your instructions, the ONLY description that showed up was "Building Submenus".  I had to add tropod_Properties.xml as well for everything else to show up instead of everything else being "Unknown."

However, I think you are missing some other properties of this mod when you compare it to Reader 1.5.4 and the new_properties.xml file.  As far as I can tell, you're missing "Item Submenu Parent ID", and "Item Button Class" descriptions.  

Here they show up in Reader 1.5.4:

And here's Reader 0.9.3 with your added XML file working (second picture) but not showing those 2 descriptions (first picture): 

[Marcelconstrutor 11]

Excuse my ignorance, how do I create other submenus? I saw that I managed to install the parks menu, it was well organized, how do I create it for schools, hospitals, etc.?

 

 

[Wiimeiser 444]

You need to add the exemplar yourself as seen above, though I'm not sure of the specifics, like if it can be in a separate file or if it must be in the same file as the original.

[Ulisse Wolf 4,412]

8 minutes ago, Marcelconstrutor said:

Excuse my ignorance, how do I create other submenus? I saw that I managed to install the parks menu, it was well organized, how do I create it for schools, hospitals, etc.?

 

 

For Maxis content we are already working on it. Give us time because we are going crazy between managing the logistics and sorting out the Maxis content

[Marcelconstrutor 11]

Just now, Ulisse Wolf said:

Para o conteúdo da Maxis já estamos trabalhando nisso. Dê-nos um tempo porque estamos enlouquecendo entre gerenciar a logística e resolver o conteúdo da Maxis

 

4 minutes ago, Ulisse Wolf said:

For Maxis content we are already working on it. Give us time because we are going crazy between managing the logistics and sorting out the Maxis content

The work you did in creating these submenus is perfect!! I hope someone shows it on video later!! the website is excellent

[eaglesong 108]

These submenus are great! I'm looking forward to more content in this area.

This does not seem to  work with Jeronij's Parks Cleaner, which moves the Maxis parks to the end of the park menu. When I saw the conflict I changed my plugins to have the submenus load after the parks cleaner, which worked just fine, but the parks are no longer at the end of the menu. Not a big deal to me, but thought I should let you know. I don't have a download link for it, it is Jeronij  content that was on the LEX, and hasn't been uploaded to evermore yet.

Thanks for the great work!

[Panda 209]

5 hours ago, Kel9509 said:

Panda, this is great for use in Reader 0.9.3.  When I followed your instructions, the ONLY description that showed up was "Building Submenus".  I had to add tropod_Properties.xml as well for everything else to show up instead of everything else being "Unknown."

However, I think you are missing some other properties of this mod when you compare it to Reader 1.5.4 and the new_properties.xml file.  As far as I can tell, you're missing "Item Submenu Parent ID", and "Item Button Class" descriptions. 

Good catch Kel9509. I've added the two missing properties to the submenu_properties.xml file in my comment. I also added a note about needing to enable tropod_properties as well.

[rsc204 21,808]

I'll just repeat a post I made on Discord and this seems the most appropriate place...

So I thought it might be more accessible if someone released a bunch of ‘generic’ submenus, along with a template so to utilise them all you've have to do is Copy/Paste one Property into each Buildings Exemplar (Plop Lot) which you wanted to be included in one of the given menus.

An example of some of the items I am thinking of including in such a pack (note edited from first draft after I took some time to really think about what would be most useful and where it best fits):

Rail Menu:

• Rail Stations
• Freight Rail Stations
• Sidings and Spurs
• Monorail Stations

Misc Transit Menu:

• Bus
• Subway
• El Rail
• GLR
• Multi-Modal
• Parking
• Bikepaths

Airports Menu:

• Runways
• Buildings
• Details
• Misc

Water Transportation Menu:

• Seaports
• Marinas
• Seawalls
• Canals

Power:

• Custom Power Stations
• Substations
• Misc Power
• Power Lines

Police Menu:

• Small
• Medium
• Large

Fire Menu:

• Small
• Medium
• Large

Education Menu:

• Elementary Schools
• High Schools
• Further/Higher Education (College and Universities)
• Libraries and Museums

Health Menu:

• Small
• Medium
• Large

Landmarks Menu:

• Plop CS
• Plop CO
• Plop Farms
• Plop Ind
• Custom Landmarks

Parks Menu:

• Park Lots
• Modular Parks
• Park Paths
• Fillers
• Embankment Walls
  Here is a good example where there isn't really an ideal location or natural home for this type of content. Interestingly though, I think it would be possible in scenarios like this to offer users a couple different options regarding the location of the submenu. Taking into account the most used locations historically.
  For example by installing a different version (file) for a given submenu, it controls whether the submenu and it's contents appear in either the Power Menu or Parks Menu. Since the modding of the lots (Building Exemplars) themselves don't need to be different for this to work, it's minimal effort to do.

I'm sure you get the idea. I can also make a tutorial video showing how to add the new Sub Menus to your existing lots.

Also, if anyone is quick/good at making Icons, I'd appreciate some assistance there.

On 27/02/2024 at 3:46 PM, Jidan said:

Can I make submenus inside of submenus (and possibly inside of submenus inside of submenus..., you get the idea)?

Yes, I checked and technically speaking there isn't a limit to the number of times you can 'nest' these menus. Although practically speaking if you need more than 2 or 3 levels then IMHO you are doing it wrong.

23 hours ago, Panda said:

For those who want to experiment with submenus and are using ILives Reader version 0.9.3, I've created an xml properties file that will let the reader properly show the new OccupantGroupsAlt property.  Download and save the following file: submenu_properties.xml

Thank you for sharing, I couldn't work this out myself and don't fancy installing 1.5x since doing so messes with Reader 0.93 which I have clung onto.

  Edited February 28, 2024 by rsc204  
Updated list of potential categories

[hugues aroux 3,784]

34 minutes ago, rsc204 said:

Also, if anyone is quick/good at making Icons, I'd appreciate some assistance there.

.. at your disposal .. am on vacation this week!!

[Membrillo 56]

Park Menu can benefit from an Agricultural and a Roundabout fillers submenus. Maybe another for Forests.

I'll try to think of more suggestions later if I can start the game. But stuff like IRM Fillers or Retaining Walls are probably required to have a standard submenu. Someone already said that Elementary Schools, High Schools and all the other categories of educational buildings should be organised in submenus.

[Sniffeh 121]

3 hours ago, rsc204 said:

I'll just repeat a post I made on Discord and this seems the most appropriate place...

So I thought it might be more accessible if someone released a bunch of ‘generic’ submenus, along with a template so to utilise them all you've have to do is Copy/Paste one Property into each Buildings Exemplar (Plop Lot) which you wanted to be included in one of the given menus.

An example of some of the items I am thinking of including in such a pack:

• Parks Menu
  • Parks
  • Park Paths
  • Canals
• Sea/Ship Transport Menu
  • Seaports
  • Marinas
  • Seawalls
• Misc Transit Menu
  • Bus Stops
  • Train Stations
  • Freight Train Stations
  • El-Rail Stations
  • Monorail Stations
  • GLR Stations
  • Multi-Modal Transit (Stations)
  • Parking

I'm sure you get the idea. I can also make a tutorial video showing how to add the new Sub Menus to your existing lots.

Also, if anyone is quick/good at making Icons, I'd appreciate some assistance there.

Yes, I checked and technically speaking there isn't a limit to the number of times you can 'nest' these menus. Although practically speaking if you need more than 2 or 3 levels then IMHO you are doing it wrong.

Thank you for sharing, I couldn't work this out myself and don't fancy installing 1.5x since doing so messes with Reader 0.93 which I have clung onto.

What is  ILives Reader? I'm new to modding the menu.

[rsc204 21,808]

It's a modding tool you'll need to create the data for SubMenus to actually work.

iLives Reader Downloads: v1.54 / v.093 - The newer version has some issues that can corrupt files you are working on if things aren't done in a specific way. But either version is fine for this task.

[Panda 209]

5 hours ago, rsc204 said:

Thank you for sharing, I couldn't work this out myself and don't fancy installing 1.5x since doing so messes with Reader 0.93 which I have clung onto.

Oh dear, I currently have both installed. What kind of interference occurs?

[rsc204 21,808]

42 minutes ago, Panda said:

Oh dear, I currently have both installed. What kind of interference occurs?

Well if you haven't noticed any problems, it's likely not affecting you, specifically with both installed I can't get Windows to open files directly in the older version, only the newer. Until I uninstalled it, even adjusting the Windows settings for file extensions wasn't re-directing it to the old version.

It's not like having both causes other problems, sorry I should probably have been clearer.

[Panda 209]

@rsc204 I have some time and can help create menu icons.

[Ulisse Wolf 4,412]

I am currently working in automating this process by entering values into PIM-X so people can use the default submenus. Obviously you can add other values in addition to the defaults but there is a risk in which you can conflict the CAM submenu with other submenus that act on maxis buildings

One thing I want to recommend are the following cues.

1. The transportation menu should be taken off the list because NAM Team is planning an expansion of stations and so we need to structure the various submenus well
2. Same is the Airport Menu as I am planning a structure that allows for a lightening of the menu
3. Ensure compatibility between the various submenus.

Also, the SC4E Team does not support third party submenus on LEX content but only supports the submenus we have developed in the various modpacks

[atsf189 460]

12 hours ago, rsc204 said:

if anyone is quick/good at making Icons

I can try and help with Icons

Let me what you are thinking. Maybe like for Police a picture of a police station or shield with a large letter for S, M @ L

[Kel9509 1,363]

13 hours ago, rsc204 said:

So I thought it might be more accessible if someone released a bunch of ‘generic’ submenus, along with a template so to utilise them all you've have to do is Copy/Paste one Property into each Buildings Exemplar (Plop Lot) which you wanted to be included in one of the given menus.

A template file is exactly the right approach.  If you're editing a lot to designate it as part of a school submenu, for example, it'd be great if you could just copy an exemplar from a Template exemplar file to paste into each applicable lot.  Not sure if a template file could be made that collects all possible basic submenus, or if you'd need 1 per submenu type.

As for the basic submenus, your list makes a lot of sense.  But it would be preferable to separate out each basic building type, so I'd separate out libraries from museums (you'd be surprised how many libraries there are that I've got).  Maybe also a separate submenu for private schools.  

The big issue is going to be Parks and Landmarks.  Parks is the hardest.  I've avoided installing a lot of custom parks like Paeng's Parks, because I hate the idea of my Parks menu filled with 1x1 ploppable lots.  It is annoying as hell to scroll through those, and those sort of lots are the primary benefit of this DLL mod.  Maybe those should have their own "creator" submenu?  Like specific to Paeng, or Diggis, etc?  I think your idea for Landmarks makes sense, although I might customize it to separate it out by certain Tileset styles.

The DLL was recently updated for Rewards, so does that work now?  If Rewards can be submenued, I would propose making submenus for courthouses or other government-style buildings, or submenus for cap relief of industrial, commercial, residential, and multi-relief items.

[atsf189 460]

On 2/27/2024 at 4:41 PM, Kel9509 said:

For those who want to experiment with subme

I can not get Reader 0.9.3 to find the unknowns. I downloaded the .xml file from Github that memo made and pointed Reader to it like you said but they still show unknown. What Am I missing? Ilives Reader_v154_ will not work on my win 10 computer. It crashes when I click the exemplar file. I am more used to 0.9.3 anyway.

Also your link to the xml you made is not working

I did get Panda's link to load correctly

[Kel9509 1,363]

Panda's link only works for 0.9.3 reader, and the .xml file from Github only works in 1.5.4.  Both versions of Reader work seamlessly on my PC, because I'm not loading files directly in Windows Explorer by clicking them (I only load them from the program directly).  

To get Panda's link to work in reader, you need to add it as an XML Property file, AS WELL AS the existing "tropod_Properties.xml" file that's also located wherever you installed Reader 0.9.3.  Otherwise, if you just add his file as a XML Property file per his screenshots, everything else will show up as "Unknown."  

[atsf189 460]

4 minutes ago, Kel9509 said:

Panda's link only works for 0.9.3 reader

I do have Panda's working. It looks like memo updates the github file regularly. Is there a way to convert the github file to work with 0.9.3?

[atsf189 460]

48 minutes ago, Kel9509 said:

AS WELL AS the existing "tropod_Properties.xml" file

I got the Github to work in iLives Reader 0.9.3 also. I think it is the same thing as panda's you have to leave the "tropod_Properties.xml" file in there. I was replacing the "tropod_Properties.xml" file

[atsf189 460]

@memo @Ulisse Wolf

Is it possible to change the color of the text bubble to yellow so as you hover over buttons when a yellow background shows up you know that is a submenu.

How hard is it to change the color of the thing that holds the buttons so whenever you are in a submenu it would be a certain color and then you would know the submenu is on 

[memo 1,444]

2 hours ago, atsf189 said:

How hard is it to change the color of the thing that holds the buttons so whenever you are in a submenu it would be a certain color and then you would know the submenu is on 

Something that could be done easily is change the color of the frame to that of the zoning menu whenever you are in a submenu. I'm undecided on this, personally, and would like to wait for some opinions.

 

[rsc204 21,808]

I'm sorry to have to bring this up, but the last few days I am made to feel more and more uncomfortable around this issue.

I am getting the feint whiff of Elitism coming off the back of my recent efforts to standardise some basic submenus. I have the feeling when people say, don’t work on this or that, it’s because they think they have the singular perfect solution. When what I was really asking for, was for us (modders) to come together and work together on some useful standards to benefit everyone. With the engagement of the wider community, so we have more data to decide how best to proceed.

The whole purpose here is to find a standardised set of 1st Level Submenus that everyone can make use of. Later I’m sure others will want to create 2nd Level submenus or deeper, the initial menus will exist for them that is consistent for everyone. What goes on beyond that 1st Level can be a customisation free-for-all as far as I care. But the 1st Level ones are bound to be duplicated if multiple people all go at this separately. This will inevitably lead to an inconsistent experience for end users, which doesn’t benefit anyone. Of course there is always scope for specific customisation for those who want it, but a standard place for given content types is to my mind, hugely important.

I would therefore really appreciate it if those making things off limits instead engaged with the process of doing this together. Because this is something that requires a consensus from a group and not a bunch of folks running off doing whatever they think is best.

I don’t think it makes sense to start any major works here until we've had some discussion about what submenus would be the most useful. I’ve just gone through the menus and tried to list as many as I could think of that matches the content types you see most. But I don’t consider that list definitive or even necessarily correct, it was just an example to spur further debate. Unless we work together and decide how such a list should look, we’ll end up with whatever Dave or Bob decided we all need ^{(note Dave and Bob are not real people)}.

Some community engagement and feedback is really important here, to ensure whatever is implemented in the early stages has the maximum benefit for the most number of players. This requires open debate and agreement from a group, not having things dictated because someone shouted 'shotgun' and got there first.

Once we get past that point, then we can all work out who’s doing what. But right now I feel like I’m being told I shouldn’t be part of this effort, because others have it under control. This is the very opposite of open and frankly very de-motivating to a lot of us who are genuinely excited to help bring this wonderful new capability to the wider community.

[hugues aroux 3,784]

@memo 

4 hours ago, memo said:

to wait for some opinions

I haven't detailed everything yet, but... roughly speaking
Question/reflection ...
.. each submenu item (rank n) is assigned a property [item Icon] 0x856ddbac,0x6a386d26,0xaabbccdd (and I imagine an [item descript']) and this instance ID (aabbccdd) must/is desired to be "fixed" for Rank1 (+rank2 and 3 for certain "Maxis" elements) in order to be a common base, for Maxis Objects/Categories, and by rebound, to all past and future Mods in which this Mod can register. (!!??)
So we need to establish a "SC4-SubMenu-Base" list: Name (icon-descript) => IID (0xaabbccdd). ??
Which RSC204 has just started doing!!
I'll come back...
but first... since we will have this Name+IID list, this means that "we - graphic designers of all kinds" could offer a Set of replacement icons. Which each player can install, according to their graphic preferences. Some people like flashy colors, and others will prefer something more sober.
I come back to this, .. I would quite agree with @rsc204, if it wishes, to revive (on another thread/or not) the trends, to collect and amalgamate the visions of the community.
We have a (monitored-maintained) list of Family TGIs, and Textures, couldn't we do the same thing for the submenus .. ??
Personally, I could consider requesting my IID Set to manage my modular parking lot plugin in the submenu, which has nearly 200 lots divided into 6 or 7 types; or even my "Walls on slope" Sets.. etc...
And if I can help in this sense,...

[Ulisse Wolf 4,412]

5 hours ago, memo said:

Something that could be done easily is change the color of the frame to that of the zoning menu whenever you are in a submenu. I'm undecided on this, personally, and would like to wait for some opinions.

 

That sounds like a very good idea. I like to give the ability to change menu color in the various sub menus

 

4 hours ago, rsc204 said:

I'm sorry to have to bring this up, but the last few days I am made to feel more and more uncomfortable around this issue.

I am getting the feint whiff of Elitism coming off the back of my recent efforts to standardise some basic submenus. I have the feeling when people say, don’t work on this or that, it’s because they think they have the singular perfect solution. When what I was really asking for, was for us (modders) to come together and work together on some useful standards to benefit everyone. With the engagement of the wider community, so we have more data to decide how best to proceed.

The whole purpose here is to find a standardised set of 1st Level Submenus that everyone can make use of. Later I’m sure others will want to create 2nd Level submenus or deeper, the initial menus will exist for them that is consistent for everyone. What goes on beyond that 1st Level can be a customisation free-for-all as far as I care. But the 1st Level ones are bound to be duplicated if multiple people all go at this separately. This will inevitably lead to an inconsistent experience for end users, which doesn’t benefit anyone. Of course there is always scope for specific customisation for those who want it, but a standard place for given content types is to my mind, hugely important.

I would therefore really appreciate it if those making things off limits instead engaged with the process of doing this together. Because this is something that requires a consensus from a group and not a bunch of folks running off doing whatever they think is best.

I don’t think it makes sense to start any major works here until we've had some discussion about what submenus would be the most useful. I’ve just gone through the menus and tried to list as many as I could think of that matches the content types you see most. But I don’t consider that list definitive or even necessarily correct, it was just an example to spur further debate. Unless we work together and decide how such a list should look, we’ll end up with whatever Dave or Bob decided we all need ^{(note Dave and Bob are not real people)}.

Some community engagement and feedback is really important here, to ensure whatever is implemented in the early stages has the maximum benefit for the most number of players. This requires open debate and agreement from a group, not having things dictated because someone shouted 'shotgun' and got there first.

Once we get past that point, then we can all work out who’s doing what. But right now I feel like I’m being told I shouldn’t be part of this effort, because others have it under control. This is the very opposite of open and frankly very de-motivating to a lot of us who are genuinely excited to help bring this wonderful new capability to the wider community.

I was thinking the same thing because we should create a common point of agreement so that we have standardized sub menus. 

Currently I am excluding the transportation menu as it is a NAM thing same thing for Seaport and Airport Menu.

Currently I am working for CAM 2.5 sub menus and this is the organization I was giving also considering the possibility of modification of PIM-X

Power Menu

• Coal Power Plant
• Oil Power Plant
• Gas Power Plant
• Solar Power Plant
• Nuclear Fission Power Plant
• Nuclear Fusion Power Plant
• Microwave Power Plant
• Geothermal Power Plant
• Hydroelectric Power plant
• Tide & Wave Power Plant
• Substation & Power Grid
• Eye Candy

Water Menu

• Aquifer
• Fresh Water
• Salt Water
• Sewage purifier

Garbage Menu

• Recycling center
• Waste-to-energy Power Plant

Police Menu:

• Small
• Medium
• Large

Fire Menu:

• Small
• Medium
• Large

Education Menu:

• Elementary Schools
• High Schools
• College and Universities 
• Libraries
• Museums

Health Menu:

• Small
• Medium
• Large

Park Menu

The current submenus included in the mod are fine although we can expand for other submenus but requires manual editing instead from PIM-X. 

 In addition, PIM-X can be modified to include Police-Fire Station sections. Small - Medium - Large but requires extra work but honestly the situation for police and fire station is a complete disaster that I had to enter a null value to make manual sub menu changes