Lot Editor not working...

[TG24 355]

Hello, I have wanted to relot the Bipin's Condominium lots (which have glitches that make SC4 CTD) but everytime I try to execute it just never opens, ...like NEVER!

So, I want to have solutions for my problem. Thx

[rsc204 21,865]

The Maxis LE essentially works much like SC4 itself in terms of how it loads your Plugins and the renderer used to display game objects for editing. So the first thing to consider is, are you waiting long enough?, for example if your game (SC4) takes a minute or two to load, you need to give the LE the same amount of time.

It is also possible that the LE is having problems working with DirectX, since most people are using Wrappers and other compatibility patches to play SC4. You may for example want to try running the LE through a Wrapper or otherwise bypass DirectX by adding the following command to the end of the Target line in its shortcut:

-d:software

[philforhockey51 4,220]

Couple of things to check first, are you trying to open the LE with a full plugins folder? If there is too much in the folder the LE won't even try to open. The PIM should have had similar trouble. Try a plugins folder with just the lots you want to edit any dependencies it needs and any dependencies you want to add. Also first check that you have all the dependencies for the bipin lots.

I would also suggest going through the tutorial again and making sure you haven't skipped any steps, though I learned to edit lots years ago I forgot steps not having done it in a while.

 

[TG24 355]

Hmm... SC4 takes about 4-6 starting and 7-13 minutes loading a tile (Depends on size, pop. and buildings), and i have tried with and without plugins in my SC4 folder, which hasn't worked :C 

I will check the tutorial (which i surprisingly never checked) and apply the command rsc204.

[rsc204 21,865]

17 minutes ago, TG24 said:

SC4 takes about 4-6 starting and 7-13 minutes loading a tile

Yeesh, that would be too much for me. So consider that the LE would take probably around 4m min to start given it needs to do the same loading of your Plugins folder. That said, even if you went off and did other things, if it was actually loading in the background I'd expect you to notice eventually. Usually if it gets to this point before falling over, you can expect some sort of CTD/Error Message, although not always. In other words, it all rather suggests a compatibility issue, i.e. the program isn't correctly initialising in the first place.

Just FYI, if you don't have an SSD, likely it would significantly improve performance for a very small outlay. If you have an SSD and are suffering these load times, that suggests you have a ridiculous amount of files in Plugins. SSD or not, you'd probably also benefit from DATPacking your Plugins folder.

[TG24 355]

On 28/1/2024 at 3:39 PM, rsc204 said:

Yeesh, that would be too much for me. So consider that the LE would take probably around 4m min to start given it needs to do the same loading of your Plugins folder. That said, even if you went off and did other things, if it was actually loading in the background I'd expect you to notice eventually. Usually if it gets to this point before falling over, you can expect some sort of CTD/Error Message, although not always. In other words, it all rather suggests a compatibility issue, i.e. the program isn't correctly initialising in the first place.

Just FYI, if you don't have an SSD, likely it would significantly improve performance for a very small outlay. If you have an SSD and are suffering these load times, that suggests you have a ridiculous amount of files in Plugins. SSD or not, you'd probably also benefit from DATPacking your Plugins folder.

I have SSD, but even when it's empty it doesn't run...

[TG24 355]

Also, is 16GB of mods good or it's crazy amount?

[rsc204 21,865]

It depends, some people don't mind the loading times and performance issues that causes in game. What matters though is how organised they are, if you've put such a collection together well, avoided mass duplication and faulty/incompatible mods, it's not necessarily a deal breaker. Ultimately, it may be the only way to have a big variety of buildings and content to create with. Sometimes I look at @Haljackey and think, if I just stopped caring and chucked everything in Plugins, then used a similar demand mod, I'd probably enjoy playing a lot more.

Me personally, the most I've ever put together was 3-4GB, but it was badly put together and full of problems. Currently I am using less than 1GB (excluding NAM), which gives for the most part a much better in-game experience. I'm slowly been putting things together with ruthless efficiency, but it's taken me years and I am nothing like done. Honestly there is probably some middle ground, no one solution is right for everyone and whatever makes the game most enjoyable for you is what really matters.

6 hours ago, TG24 said:

I have SSD, but even when it's empty it doesn't run...

Then it's a compatibility issue, again if you need a Wrapper for playing SC4, that's probably why the LE can't run without one or using software rendering. You may also need Windows compatibility modes (XP SP3), since modern machines may not work well with such old programs.

Option B, use the vastly superior PIM-X instead, honestly I should have started with that perhaps! Do note it can not load anything like 16GB of Plugins, you will have to be selective on what is loaded on startup. But it offers the ability to filter out the folders in the root of Plugins, so you don't need to move things about manually to achieve this.

[Haljackey 17,389]

7 hours ago, rsc204 said:

Sometimes I look at @Haljackey and think, if I just stopped caring and chucked everything in Plugins, then used a similar demand mod, I'd probably enjoy playing a lot more.

Hahahaha you gave me a good chuckle this morning

Ya I never really cared. There are the odd times where something may not work well with another lot or whatever, but you just go through what you recently added to your plugis folder and make sure you have all the dependencies and whatnot and make sure you don't have any conflicting or outdated plugins mentioned in the description/readme that could cause issues.

I never really thought of it this way but I guess my play style is kinda the base game on steroids. Zone, see what grows, try to manage it, or demolish and wait for something I like to develop in it's place.

[rsc204 21,865]

Yeah, sometimes results mean more than aiming for some kind of pseudo perfection. And your results are always interesting to see. 

[TG24 355]

7 hours ago, rsc204 said:

It depends, some people don't mind the loading times and performance issues that causes in game. What matters though is how organised they are, if you've put such a collection together well, avoided mass duplication and faulty/incompatible mods, it's not necessarily a deal breaker. Ultimately, it may be the only way to have a big variety of buildings and content to create with. Sometimes I look at @Haljackey and think, if I just stopped caring and chucked everything in Plugins, then used a similar demand mod, I'd probably enjoy playing a lot more.

Me personally, the most I've ever put together was 3-4GB, but it was badly put together and full of problems. Currently I am using less than 1GB (excluding NAM), which gives for the most part a much better in-game experience. I'm slowly been putting things together with ruthless efficiency, but it's taken me years and I am nothing like done. Honestly there is probably some middle ground, no one solution is right for everyone and whatever makes the game most enjoyable for you is what really matters.

Then it's a compatibility issue, again if you need a Wrapper for playing SC4, that's probably why the LE can't run without one or using software rendering. You may also need Windows compatibility modes (XP SP3), since modern machines may not work well with such old programs.

Option B, use the vastly superior PIM-X instead, honestly I should have started with that perhaps! Do note it can not load anything like 16GB of Plugins, you will have to be selective on what is loaded on startup. But it offers the ability to filter out the folders in the root of Plugins, so you don't need to move things about manually to achieve this.

I got confused, I had 11GB, after DatPacking it's now 9GB

[TG24 355]

7 hours ago, rsc204 said:

Option B, use the vastly superior PIM-X instead, honestly I should have started with that perhaps! Do note it can not load anything like 16GB of Plugins, you will have to be selective on what is loaded on startup. But it offers the ability to filter out the folders in the root of Plugins, so you don't need to move things about manually to achieve this

How do I use PIM-X? 

I'm just cOmPlitLy lost!

[rsc204 21,865]

18 hours ago, TG24 said:

How do I use PIM-X? 

I'm just cOmPlitLy lost!

So whilst we've been focused on your actual request, access to the Lot Editor, it occurred to me yesterday that we've forgotten about why you want it. I wanted to delve into the Bipin lots in question, because when I considered your problem, actually this isn't something you can fix in the LE.

This is just the first thing I saw, but when I open one of the Lots in PIM-X, then ask it to open the related Buildings Exemplars, I think I can see why these aren't working. Probably a copy/paste error of sorts, the Maxis LE doesn't allow you to make new things, but when you base a new thing on an existing thing, all it's Properties are inherited. In this case that means a Parent Cohort that links these lots in with the Maxis Building Families and that may or may not work, but I'm fairly sure it isn't how things were intended. Do things the other way around, use one of the included Buildings Families and ask to open the related Lots, there are none. In it's current state these simply won't grow as intended, if at all, as for CTDs, I don't understand why that'd be a thing, but I've not really dug much deeper because...

So in terms of how do you fix this, the simple answer is don't bother, when something is this out of whack, just start over. What I mean by that is to create a new series of growable lots, preferably in PIM-X, which should get the modding right without you having to think about it. When it comes to the Lots, you can copy/paste all the existing items from the originals, into you new ones, so you don't have to do this work again, just remember you can't copy the Building or Buildings Exemplar.

The best place to start with PIM-X is the included User Manual (PDF), this walks you through basic functions such as making Plop / Grow lots. But some of the above is a bit more advanced, especially considering there are some other tweaks I have not mentioned which I think would be good to do at the same time.

Now far be it from me to refuse to help a person who wants to learn to fish, so giving PIM-X a spin is something I would recommend. At it's most basic, the Lot Editor allows you to edit how things look and that is a big step in the direction of customisation/personalisation. But in the specific case of these lots, give me a little time and I think we can put a fixed version on the STEX so these can be enjoyed by everyone.

[rsc204 21,865]

Not as difficult as I had feared actually, so I've just made the following modifications:

• Centred the House models (a nightmare to work with otherwise)
• Created a new Buildings Family, which contains each of the four house colours
• Copied the 3 lots layouts - each colour previously needed 3 lots, but I've condensed that down since each colour house can grow on any the three lots
• Merged everything into 2 DATs, one with the Grow Lots and another with the Models/Props (Resource)

I've done nothing about the dependencies and frankly, I don't think everything listed is necessary and I'm sure not everything is listed. But, they are as they were, I've only removed the house models which previously were Props, but are now using Buildings. I will try to work out the proper list and update everything eventually, but in the meantime you can ditch all the files from the original download and replace them with these and they will work.

Bipin Contemporary Condominiums.7z

Note: Stats generated by PIM-X not me, so all are R$$ Growth Stage 4 with 41 Residents.

[TG24 355]

4 hours ago, rsc204 said:

Not as difficult as I had feared actually, so I've just made the following modifications:

• Centred the House models (a nightmare to work with otherwise)
• Created a new Buildings Family, which contains each of the four house colours
• Copied the 3 lots layouts - each colour previously needed 3 lots, but I've condensed that down since each colour house can grow on any the three lots
• Merged everything into 2 DATs, one with the Grow Lots and another with the Models/Props (Resource)

I've done nothing about the dependencies and frankly, I don't think everything listed is necessary and I'm sure not everything is listed. But, they are as they were, I've only removed the house models which previously were Props, but are now using Buildings. I will try to work out the proper list and update everything eventually, but in the meantime you can ditch all the files from the original download and replace them with these and they will work.

 

Note: Stats generated by PIM-X not me, so all are R$$ Growth Stage 4 with 71 Residents.

Bipin Contemporary Condominiums.7z

MAN THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!

I LOVED THE CONDOS AND I'M HAPPY THAT I CAN MAKE THEM GROW IN MY SAVES!!!

[philforhockey51 4,220]

Is this possibly the same issues Bipin's Hamilton - Two Storey House has as matias93 notes about on the download page's warning?

[rsc204 21,865]

6 hours ago, philforhockey51 said:

Is this possibly the same issues Bipin's Hamilton - Two Storey House

It doesn't look like it, actually setting the occupant size of the buildings to 0,0,0 is probably the main problem. The game doesn't like, I've always used a minimum of .5,.5,.5 when making 'invisible' props, because I know much less causes problems.

However, I'm going to delve into these in a similar manner to before, I'm just going to remake things and copy over the LotConfigs, that way saves on endless testing and the possibility of missing something in the process.

[rsc204 21,865]

So these were more difficult, but have received similar treatment to the last set. Models centred, only one building which has 12 different lots that includes the houses as props using a Prop Family so any house can appear on any lot.

All new set of lot files, with everything copy/pasted over from the originals. Foundations and slope tolerance remain, although I've set less of the later to avoid big visual issues. Again just don't use the original files at all, replace them with those included here instead:

Bipin Hamilton Two Storey.7z

Note: Stats generated by PIM-X not me, so all are R$$ Growth Stage 4 with 21 Residents.

Once more, these will remain here until such times as I can properly decipher the dependencies and test them. But feedback is always appreciated, I don't have the time to test everything right away.

[Tyberius06 12,254]

1 hour ago, rsc204 said:

So these were more difficult, but have received similar treatment to the last set. Models centred, only one building which has 12 different lots that includes the houses as props using a Prop Family so any house can appear on any lot.

All new set of lot files, with everything copy/pasted over from the originals. Foundations and slope tolerance remain, although I've set less of the later to avoid big visual issues. Again just don't use the original files at all, replace them with those included here instead:

Bipin Hamilton Two Storey.7z

Note: Stats generated by PIM-X not me, so all are R$$ Growth Stage 4 with 21 Residents.

Once more, these will remain here until such times as I can properly decipher the dependencies and test them. But feedback is always appreciated, I don't have the time to test everything right away.

On 2024. 01. 31. at 11:30 AM, rsc204 said:

Not as difficult as I had feared actually, so I've just made the following modifications:

• Centred the House models (a nightmare to work with otherwise)
• Created a new Buildings Family, which contains each of the four house colours
• Copied the 3 lots layouts - each colour previously needed 3 lots, but I've condensed that down since each colour house can grow on any the three lots
• Merged everything into 2 DATs, one with the Grow Lots and another with the Models/Props (Resource)

I've done nothing about the dependencies and frankly, I don't think everything listed is necessary and I'm sure not everything is listed. But, they are as they were, I've only removed the house models which previously were Props, but are now using Buildings. I will try to work out the proper list and update everything eventually, but in the meantime you can ditch all the files from the original download and replace them with these and they will work.

Bipin Contemporary Condominiums.7z

Note: Stats generated by PIM-X not me, so all are R$$ Growth Stage 4 with 41 Residents.

Heh, we started assembling Prop Packs out of Bipin's models a few months ago, but all got halted because of the fact that all the lots required a deep cleaning or remaking them from scratch. It did not occur to me, that the buildings were actually so offcentered, but it completely make sense to use the centered versions. This morning when I saw your posts, I started checking out the dependencies for the Condominiums. There are a few items which are not listed, plus the links are broken mostly. There is one dependency which is missing currently. I sent a DM on Discord to Bipin to help me find that one. It's the footpath between the main entrance and the car-driveway. It seems like a flat-ish stone or pavement prop was used over and over again to form that curvy pathway. This is the prop id for that missing prop: 0xd6ff546d. Also he used tree floras, not just tree props and therefore the Orange Fagus and Aesculus are dependencies too.

I will drop a proper dependency list here, but the VIP dependencies (rural pack and the car pack) are under revision after I found some issues with them (of course, only after I already uploaded the Project ZIP versions).

 

[rsc204 21,865]

The VIP car pack is a bit of a mess. There were multiple revisions and even a remastered one, the IDs if I recall are not consistent. I have a set I modified to try and ensure every model has an MMP.

Flora on lots is usually not a good idea. It’s very hard to get the space needed for Flora, meaning often they simply never appear as intended. Much better to switch these to Props, but until I know what is in the lots (can see it in LE), that’s not happening.

Feel free to re-use these files since the old ones are more trouble than it’s worth to try and fix. 

[Tyberius06 12,254]

12 minutes ago, rsc204 said:

The VIP car pack is a bit of a mess. There were multiple revisions and even a remastered one, the IDs if I recall are not consistent. I have a set I modified to try and ensure every model has an MMP.

While I was assembling the BSC Common Dependencies 7th version, I ran into that the Girafe Car props has different prop ID in the VIP set and different in the revised set, plus there was one set of Renult Megan models that were missing from the LEX version. The MMPs in the LEX version were mostly (related to the Girafe cars) copy/pasted from the two VIP Car packs (second one contains only MMPs anyway). I did bring the prop exemplars and the extra models from the old VIP_Girafe_Vehiculas.dat to a yet another revision of the LEX/now SC4Evermore version and put the MMPs into separate DAT file. 

[TG24 355]

Hey! Uhh... I dunno but Simfox's Darknite Mod doesn't work on my game, could anyone help me?

The problem is that it's just Maxisnite  the only one displaying, making some buildings look uglier for being darker.

[rsc204 21,865]

Sadly not a lot you can do about models which are only rendered for DN. Conversion to DN from MN is possible, but not the other way around.

In these cases you have to decide if the models are nice enough that you can live with it or not. 

[TG24 355]

I mean i got DN installed, never had an issue, but now it's ocurring!

[TG24 355]

Guys, sorry to waste your time, it was a MN folder in the SV terrain config folders.(This is for the DN not working.)

[rsc204 21,865]

On 08/03/2024 at 3:43 AM, TG24 said:

Guys, sorry to waste your time, it was a MN folder in the SV terrain config folders.(This is for the DN not working.)

Gobias did include some settings that were specific for MN or DN in his terrain mods. I remember a discussion that it can cause problems depending on the load order used between the two mods. Indeed you wouldn't want to have the MN file if using DarkNite for the region.

[Tyberius06 12,254]

On 2024. 01. 31. at 11:30 AM, rsc204 said:

Not as difficult as I had feared actually, so I've just made the following modifications:

• Centred the House models (a nightmare to work with otherwise)
• Created a new Buildings Family, which contains each of the four house colours
• Copied the 3 lots layouts - each colour previously needed 3 lots, but I've condensed that down since each colour house can grow on any the three lots
• Merged everything into 2 DATs, one with the Grow Lots and another with the Models/Props (Resource)

I've done nothing about the dependencies and frankly, I don't think everything listed is necessary and I'm sure not everything is listed. But, they are as they were, I've only removed the house models which previously were Props, but are now using Buildings. I will try to work out the proper list and update everything eventually, but in the meantime you can ditch all the files from the original download and replace them with these and they will work.

Bipin Contemporary Condominiums.7z

Note: Stats generated by PIM-X not me, so all are R$$ Growth Stage 4 with 41 Residents.

On 2024. 02. 01. at 1:16 PM, rsc204 said:

So these were more difficult, but have received similar treatment to the last set. Models centred, only one building which has 12 different lots that includes the houses as props using a Prop Family so any house can appear on any lot.

All new set of lot files, with everything copy/pasted over from the originals. Foundations and slope tolerance remain, although I've set less of the later to avoid big visual issues. Again just don't use the original files at all, replace them with those included here instead:

Bipin Hamilton Two Storey.7z

Note: Stats generated by PIM-X not me, so all are R$$ Growth Stage 4 with 21 Residents.

Once more, these will remain here until such times as I can properly decipher the dependencies and test them. But feedback is always appreciated, I don't have the time to test everything right away.

I'm bumping this thread. With the help of @Bipin I managed to hunt down the missing prop for the Condominiums (a prop from the TSC Orange Aubrac Walls upload). Can these updated files be used for an official STEX update @rsc204? Bipin is happy with it, if we officially updated his uploads where it needed. 

 

[rsc204 21,865]

Yeah, as always do whatever with my work, it’s always best IMO to have the direct downloads include such updates. 

[TG24 355]

OMG, can you say hello for me? I'm amazed by his works, they're almost photorealistic!