Space shuttle station

[brianc1327 161]

In the vague past (I don't remember if this thread was recent or several years ago), there was a thread about the space shuttle station, and one of the replies stated that the had to be played on medium or hard mode, in addition to having the university, research center, and enough HT industry.  At first, I thought, "this is incorrect, I have gotten it on easy mode."  However, I recently played a city on "easy" mode and did not get offered the shuttle station, so I think I just started my city that I got the shuttle station on medium/hard mode and just misremembered that I started it on easy mode.  Either that, or I got it using the "you dont deserve it" cheat code.

Well, I just had some comments/thoughts about it.  First, in SC4, the farthest it can be from an inhabited area is about 3km (diagonal length of a large city), in fact, I usually put it next to  an air force base that I got from the ST exchange right here, and I usually have commercial zoning right next to it.  I real life. such a base would be at least twice as far from any inhabited area.

Second, I almost always get it in either medium or large cities.  However, I checked my plugins, and one of them is an industry quadrupler, which I think means that industry (D,M, and HT) offers 4 times as many jobs as it would without it.  Without it, I would not even come close to having enough HT jobs to be offered the shuttle station when playing a medium sized grid.  I think this was the way the game was originally designed, it is just not possible to get enough HT jobs, even if conditions are "perfect" for HT industry.  In a small city, I don't think it would even get close to having enough HT jobs even if you had a industry quadrupler,  I guess you would need and industry 16-upler.

Brian Christiansen

[TheMurderousCricket 5,061]

I have to say that your analysis largely reflects my own views regarding the apparent impossibility to build certain rewards in the normal gameplay on certain types of city tiles.

I can also point finger at Main Library reward which requires 4 other, regular libraries to be built in order to even start being accessible. In all honesty, never so far have I built a city which required as much as four libraries to serve its entire population.  As such, this reward remains off-limits for most of my cities that I can think of.

In a similar vein, one can argue that power plant requirements are just as obstructing and deny player an ability to, for instance, build a nuclear power plant with a large exclusion zone around it. That's because any reasonable exclusion zone will eat up the space that you need to develop the required population or power demand - both being prerequisites for nuclear power plant.

My guess is that Maxis simply wanted to limit certain buildings to large cities which I can understand. The reasoning could have been that small villages are, in fact, to small to be able to handle all the traffic, support and problems that a spaceport or large military facility would require. However, as we know, regions and city tiles are key concepts of the game so it is hard to justify why a spaceport that you mention should not be possible on a small city tile which is just next door to a 370 000 resident city.

[rsc204 21,836]

The thing is, Maxis made the game the way they did, if that doesn't meld with you, meh you can't please everyone I suppose. However, almost every reward can be attained through the UDI-based U-Drive it missions if you don't want to meet the requirements of unlocking them. Or just cheat, that's exactly what the the YOUDONTDESERVEIT cheat is there for. Given these options, I can't understand why anyone feels the need to bemoan the way the game, note that word, game, works? SC4 is not a city painter, thank god, although many people wish to play it this way. It also isn't the real world or 100% modelled upon it, there will always be compromises because to make the game actually work, it all comes down to mathematical formulas which whilst pretty complex, will always have limitations. The point is to provide an experience that feels real, even though the reality is that it's not, it's just math dictating everything. Not forgetting if you don't like how something works, you can mod it to work how you want it within reason.

Honestly if realism if something you value, there are much bigger issues at play where the Spaceport in concerned than the open space around it.

8 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

I can also point finger at Main Library reward which requires 4 other, regular libraries to be built in order to even start being accessible. In all honesty, never so far have I built a city which required as much as four libraries to serve its entire population.  As such, this reward remains off-limits for most of my cities that I can think of.

Good luck getting full EQ without the Main Library (OK possible, but laborious), which itself is a prerequisite for the Opera House, oh you'll probably hate having to have 5 museums and an Art Museum to unlock the Opera House too. But, without all these things, it will take a lot longer to attain the very highest levels of educated sims, which does have meaningful benefits. Is that supposed to be in every city you build?, of course not, but every now and again it's worth building all these structures. Of course if that's not something you care about, simply don't bother, but that doesn't mean it is broken or wrong.

8 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

That's because any reasonable exclusion zone will eat up the space that you need to develop the required population or power demand - both being prerequisites for nuclear power plant.

Again, I severely doubt Maxis considered players going for that level of realism, if they did I doubt this forum would be here for us to have this conversation. Your whole argument is bunk, because IF you want to do this, you absolutely CAN, use the tools available and make your cities and regions how you want, plenty of others have. It's just not how the game was intended to be played.

8 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

However, as we know, regions and city tiles are key concepts of the game so it is hard to justify why a spaceport that you mention should not be possible on a small city tile which is just next door to a 370 000 resident city.

Could it be because as a game, they didn't want to just let you build anything anywhere like some kind of free for all? Like, what would be the point of a reward if it didn't take any effort to get said reward, which is a pretty standard game mechanic. Wouldn't it feel rewarding to eventually get some of the harder to unlock rewards?, especially if you could only do so in a small proportion of the cities you built? Again, they also left ways around it, so nothing is set in stone, but perhaps they thought some players would enjoy the challenges presented by this part of the game?

This all sounds a bit like the "Maxis didn't make the exact game I wanted," argument... You are right, they didn't, instead they made one that was so popular it's a multi-million selling simulation that's still alive after 20 years, just maybe they did know what they were doing after all?

[TheMurderousCricket 5,061]

23 minutes ago, rsc204 said:

This all sounds a bit like the "Maxis didn't make the exact game I wanted," argument... You are right, they didn't, instead they made one that was so popular it's a multi-million selling simulation that's still alive after 20 years, just maybe they did know what they were doing after all?

30 minutes ago, rsc204 said:

Your whole argument is bunk

I'm really not sure why you seem to recently be so bitter in discussions which are purely theoretical and based on users' very different levels of knowledge regarding the game. We are not discussing politics so why all the bad vibes? What have I ever done to you that you keep treating me this way, berating everything I say on the forums?

There are literally dozens of players out here who don't like various aspects of SimCity and this is precisely the reason why mods are made! Is there a forum rule that would forbid us to display our dissatisfaction with certain aspects of the game? No? Then leave me alone.

By this logic scoffing at, say, Cori for making NKO would have been ok, because she didn't like the game "exactly" as it was made...

I forgive you though. Not because you deserve it but because I deserve peace.

[brianc1327 161]

I really don't think that either of us, either me or TheMurderousCricket were "complaining" about how the game was designed, just commenting on it.  I can only speak for myself, but I think it is just fine that aspects of the game are different than they are IRL.  In fact, a few years back, I made a post on some things that are different between the game and "real life," such as having no inflation, or an infinite water aquifer, etc.  I suppose that one more, not having a realistic buffer space around shuttle launch stations or nuclear power plants (or any kind of power plant), can now be added to the list.

Brian Christiansen

[rsc204 21,836]

I suppose I just think you are missing the point, none of these issues are issues, all of them can be easily circumvented and I am also entitled to my view point am I not? I have not tried to make those points personal, however as is so common these days, when you debate someone on points you disagree with, that's the immediate assumption. If you don't want people who come along to disagree with you, perhaps consider whether posting on a public forum is the best way to go?

My main points being, most people wouldn't want to play a game where you had to have a realistic exclusion zone around a power plant or space shuttle port, it wouldn't be much fun. You'll note I didn't say that you shouldn't do this, I actually stated how it was possible to do so, but it just wasn't the mechanism built into the default game.

When I said your argument was bunk, I meant it, this is only a problem for you if you choose to ignore the very easily accessible mechanisms that exist to work around it. So the idea that you aren't complaining in that context, well I think you are complaining about it, again my opinion.

Anyone who pays attention to what I do around these parts, should hopefully see that I am one of the few people that engage with others on ideas and help to bring them to reality. Often giving up my own free time to make things I have absolutely no use for myself. I also try to help troubleshoot problems for people, again giving of my time. But I also believe in, within reason, people's ability to speak freely on their opinions and I'm not disputing what you are saying. Yes, you are right, Maxis did not consider exclusion zones, I'm just stating that IMO I am glad they didn't, such a game would be terrible. Once more, it's a non-issue, because even though they didn't make this an enforced thing, YOU as the player can do this anyway if you so choose.

[TheMurderousCricket 5,061]

17 hours ago, brianc1327 said:

I suppose that one more, not having a realistic buffer space around shuttle launch stations or nuclear power plants (or any kind of power plant), can now be added to the list.

Brian Christiansen

Come to think of it, it's actually interesting to see that no city builder games have the mechanics you discuss. In fact, when you take a nuclear plant as an example, in SC4 you can also build it in the middle of a dry desert which, likewise, could not happen in real life (no water body to be used to condense the steam back to liquid form).  I did not think about it at all until only after your last post! I am sure that in Tropico 4 there is a requirement for the NPP to be built adjacent to a water reservoir or the seashore. However, no requirement to have any exclusion zone in place.