Switching from MAC to Windows version with Wineskin?

[jonnyquest 71]

Hi all! New to the forums, I've been enjoying SimCity 4 on my Mac for a bit but I'm thinking about switching to the Windows version for better compatibility with a few plugins (most notably night lighting on custom lots--also the Simfox Day and Nite mod is giving me a CTD; I think this is a function of Mac incompatibility?).

Is the process as simple as I hope, and it's just a matter of copying the contents of my current Plugins and Regions folders to their equivalents under my new installation of the Windows version?

Also what's the best way of actually downloading the Windows version on a Mac? Will Steam even allow me to do this?

[CorinaMarie 29,605]

Hiya, @jonnyquest. Welcome to Simtropolis.

Most of your questions will be for the Mac experts, but as far as copying plugins to Documents\SimCity 4\Plugins for the Windoze version, that'll be fine. If your Mac version of the game is the 64 bit one, then none of the cities saved will be compatible. @smf_16 peeked inside and those are essentially a memory dump in 64 bit format whereas all other version do the same sort of memory dump, but in 32 bit.

[jonnyquest 71]

7 minutes ago, CorinaMarie said:

Hiya, @jonnyquest. Welcome to Simtropolis.

Most of your questions will be for the Mac experts, but as far as copying plugins to Documents\SimCity 4\Plugins for the Windoze version, that'll be fine. If your Mac version of the game is the 64 bit one, then none of the cities saved will be compatible. @smf_16 peeked inside and those are essentially a memory dump in 64 bit format whereas all other version do the same sort of memory dump, but in 32 bit.

Ah the legendary Cori! I've enjoyed your plugins.

That's a bummer about the cities (I do indeed have the 64-bit version of the game). I take it there's probably no way to convert them for use on the Windows version

[CorinaMarie 29,605]

8 minutes ago, jonnyquest said:

I take it there's probably no way to convert them for use on the Windows version

Yeah, unfortunately not. I believe @smf_16 considered looking into making a conversion tool, but it could be an extreme amount of work.

[smf_16 1,835]

14 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

I believe @smf_16 considered looking into making a conversion tool, but it could be an extreme amount of work.

Unfortunately that is correct. In order to make a conversion tool, the entire structure of a Savegame file would have to be decoded, and that's something that won't be happening anytime soon I'm afraid.

[rsc204 21,808]

Are you using Catalina or Big Sur? If so then WineSkin no longer functions under Catalina or later due to it's 64-bit requirement.

Your best bet would be to make use of BootCamp to create a Windows Partition for playing SC4. Otherwise you could go down the path of using a Virtualised OS, using something like Parallels, if going this route you need something that supports DirectX/Virtualised GPUs though. I don't think Steam will allow you to download a Windows game from the Mac Client. You'd need to have Steam installed under whatever "Windows" system you intended to make use of, to do so.

I personally feel that the Mac version is just too much effort for serious modded play, hence I keep it just for testing/light mac-related modding personally. That said, I looked at the Day and Nite mod, I believe I have fixed the Float32 error that was causing it to CTD, I'll update the version on the STEX :edit: Done, re-download if you need the fix. Similarly, it's not impossible to have nitelights on custom buildings on a Mac, but since the Mac version lacks the two official SC4 patches, you have to use a particular GID for it to work. If you didn't have lots of buildings to alter, it's not that much work to change the IDs so they work.

[jonnyquest 71]

12 hours ago, rsc204 said:

Are you using Catalina or Big Sur? If so then WineSkin no longer functions under Catalina or later due to it's 64-bit requirement.

Your best bet would be to make use of BootCamp to create a Windows Partition for playing SC4. Otherwise you could go down the path of using a Virtualised OS, using something like Parallels, if going this route you need something that supports DirectX/Virtualised GPUs though. I don't think Steam will allow you to download a Windows game from the Mac Client. You'd need to have Steam installed under whatever "Windows" system you intended to make use of, to do so.

I personally feel that the Mac version is just too much effort for serious modded play, hence I keep it just for testing/light mac-related modding personally. That said, I looked at the Day and Nite mod, I believe I have fixed the Float32 error that was causing it to CTD, I'll update the version on the STEX, but for now you can download it here. Similarly, it's not impossible to have nitelights on custom buildings on a Mac, but since the Mac version lacks the two official SC4 patches, you have to use a particular GID for it to work. If you didn't have lots of buildings to alter, it's not that much work to change the IDs so they work.

Much thanks for this; I'm going to try this new Day and Nite mod now!

Hard to believe they haven't updated Wineskin for 64-bit after all this time. Using Parallels or Boot Camp feels like a lot of work. But I was also interested in trying the Windows version because I heard it can run faster than the Mac one; is that your experience? I get slowdowns occasionally on Mac.

I've gotten used to most of the other little annoyances (using Filejuicer for mods, etc)--the only other big hangup is the nitelights. I'd like to build up a stash of potentially hundreds of customs buildings to really get an experience that feels different graphically; would it be prohibitive to edit hundreds of buildings in this way? How long does it take per building, and can it be automated at all? I suppose I should just look at the instructions you linked to lol

[jonnyquest 71]

UPDATE: I did some googling and found this unofficial version of Wineskin that claims to be able to run 32-bit Windows apps on Catalina: https://www.winytips.com/play-32-bit-steam-games-catalina-wineskin-mac/

Seriously considering trying this as I'd love to have a solution for my current OS (and future ones when I get around to upgrading). If I do I'll report back with details!

[rsc204 21,808]

That link to Wineskin seems very useful information, certainly it's not previously been brought up here.

Personally I have been using a copy of Oracle's VirtualBox which runs Windows XP so I can make use of modding tools, which tend to be Windows applications. Although running the game under that doesn't work great, so I wouldn't go that route for playing SC4..

On 10/09/2021 at 4:11 AM, jonnyquest said:

would it be prohibitive to edit hundreds of buildings in this way

It doesn't have to be, getting an environment setup to do it and getting a hang of the process would require a little time investment. But it's one of those tasks that once you've done it a few times, it's just repetitive, but you could convert models in minutes or less. Since all you are really doing is altering the IDs of models. In theory anything can be automated, but I don't know of a tool that will do this right now.

On 10/09/2021 at 4:11 AM, jonnyquest said:

But I was also interested in trying the Windows version because I heard it can run faster than the Mac one; is that your experience? I get slowdowns occasionally on Mac.

I run a i7 4790k/32GB Ram/NVidia 960 4GB/1TB NVME SSD system and frankly SC4 simply can't begin to take advantage of that sort of hardware. But all systems will succumb as cities and your region gets larger, more so if you have a lot mods installed. That said, it's not a million miles performance-wise from when I ran SC4 under bootcamp on a late 2009 Mini, aside from the faster single-core performance, which helps the game's simulators to keep up a little longer before lag sets in, you don't really see the benefits of hefty spec machines at all. My suspicions are that the 64-bit version seems to support multi-core to some extent. Yes I do find cities lagging a little around 80k sims or so on large maps, but that's with a lot of mods and full NAM install. I've played SC4 a lot, and the performance of the Mac version, considering I've only a late 2012 mini running on an SSD, with 8GB RAM, but otherwise just the 2.5Ghz i5 model but possibly more exceptional and common among Macs, only the Intel HD4000 onboard graphics. I saw no dent in performance when I upgraded to a QHD (2560x1440) display and was playing either, which is nice.

I think at this point, that special version of Wineskin would be worth checking out, if you manage to get SC4 working, you can compare for yourself performance. But if it was close, I think personally if you want to play with mods, rather than just install a handful, it's just less hassle to run the game in Windows.

[jonnyquest 71]

So I played around with that version of Wineskin and got the game running well graphically with the help of SC4Launcher. I'm getting a CTD after loading the Big City tutorial tho which tells me that playing larger cities is going to be a problem. Hopefully I can find some solution with Winetricks or something else, or as a last resort I'll try some other emulator but ideally something that doesn't force me to go through the hassle of actually installing Windows. If I can fix this I do reckon I'll stick with the Windows version to be able to install SC4Fix and resolve the nitelighting issue.

Thx for the resources in the other thread though @rsc204! Will check those out if I ultimately have to go back to the Mac version

[jonnyquest 71]

Oh while we're on the subject of quirks on the Windows version, is there any way to get the HD terrain mods working through software graphics rendering? I was fond of the VIP terrain mod. Alternatively is there a way to get DirectX hardware graphics rendering working for me? Maybe the lack of graphics processing horsepower is causing my CTD on the Big City tutorial

[rsc204 21,808]

Have you manually set (some setting in WINE I guess) for the game to run on just a single-core of your CPU?, it's the #1 cause of CTDs under Windows.

Software Rendering shouldn't cause instability, it's just not very efficient, you ideally want to get full DirectX support out of WINE, it should exist. Software Rendering comes with a limitation of max 256x256px game textures. Certain so-called "HD Mods" can use textures as high as 1024x1024 for terrain/water etc. If such an unsupported texture is present, the game CTDs upon loading a city. DirectX should not have the same limitation, so there's a second good reason to get it working.

[jonnyquest 71]

18 minutes ago, rsc204 said:

Have you manually set (some setting in WINE I guess) for the game to run on just a single-core of your CPU?, it's the #1 cause of CTDs under Windows.

Software Rendering shouldn't cause instability, it's just not very efficient, you ideally want to get full DirectX support out of WINE, it should exist. Software Rendering comes with a limitation of max 256x256px game textures. Certain so-called "HD Mods" can use textures as high as 1024x1024 for terrain/water etc. If such an unsupported texture is present, the game CTDs upon loading a city. DirectX should not have the same limitation, so there's a second good reason to get it working.

Game is running on a single core via the option in Sc4Launcher. But what you say about the HD textures is very illuminative. I'm wondering if the culprit behind my crashes now is some BAT I downloaded at one point using HD textures. I've downloaded so many--perhaps there's a tree mod or a mod of some Maxis building that's specific to the Big City tutorial and not the other other city tiles I've been able to load successfully. Will investigate further... 🤔🤔🤔

[rsc204 21,808]

Just note that CTDs from HD Textures under Software Rendering ONLY happen the moment the city loads and it tries to display it. Normal BAT models using 'HD' textures are only using 256x256px textures internally. Which basically means regular models can not be the cause of your CTD problem here.

HD is used a general term for saying Higher Resolution/Detail, but there are different resolutions for different mods.

[jonnyquest 71]

^That's good to know. I went through each of my plugins and it turns out the issue was a Functional Landmarks mod that didn't like that there were already landmarks plopped in the Big City tile I was trying to open. So with that mod removed I now join the ranks of those successfully running SimCity 4 through Wineskin, hooray! :ronpaulitshappening.gif

My next task will be to try to see if I can get Direct X hardware graphics rendering emulated somehow..

[rsc204 21,808]

1 hour ago, jonnyquest said:

My next task will be to try to see if I can get Direct X hardware graphics rendering emulated somehow..

It certainly should be supported, since the idea of running Windows games sans DirectX kinda defeats the point of a specific "gaming-compatible" fork of WINE.

[jonnyquest 71]

Some more info if it's helpful to other Mac users dealing with all this: I was able to get OpenGL hardware rendering working through Wineskin. I also discovered this, which allows you to download custom wineskins for specific games: https://www.playonmac.com/en/app-311.html Through PlayOnMac I was able to get DirectX hardware rendering emulated.

But I got up to about 140k in population and things started to really slow down with both hardware and software rendering: choppy scrolling, automata and everything else lagging, etc. My 64-bit Mac version runs smooth as butter. I have good RAM but my machine is only a 13 inch Macbook with the Intel Iris graphics card, so I think the 64-bit architecture was doing me quite a bit of good. But it sounds like maybe Windows emulation is the way to go for people with better specs.

Anyway I suppose I'm back to the Mac version. The nitelite thing sounds like it's not an insurmountable issue. Much thanks everyone for all the help, I think I'll stick around and maybe share some actual city building stuff soon :-) 

[ironjaw 54]

Since 2003, I've been having issues and have read again and again work arounds for SC4 users on Mac. I think Bootcamp is probably the best option. I still have a intel MacBook Pro 13, not sure if you can install Windows on M1, but I think I would like en emulator. It's hard being a Mac user. Any recommendations on how to install bootcamp and Windows licenses, etc?

[rsc204 21,808]

Installing BootCamp is no more complex than running the Boot Camp Assistant in MacOS. You will need to have some form of valid Windows installer, these days a download from MS. Regarding licences, it is possible to install Windows 10 and simply not activate it, it will continue to work regardless, though some features may not be available. If you want a legitimate licence, you'll need to buy one online or in a store. Beware of the scams where you only get e-mailed a licence key, it's very unlikely these are genuine, a real licence costs around $80 for the home edition.

1 hour ago, ironjaw said:

not sure if you can install Windows on M1

Pretty sure you can't, because Windows doesn't natively support the ARM architecture of the M1. Apple specify this is for Intel-based Macs only, though it does at least persist in Big Sur as part of the OS.

[jonnyquest 71]

5 hours ago, ironjaw said:

Since 2003, I've been having issues and have read again and again work arounds for SC4 users on Mac. I think Bootcamp is probably the best option. I still have a intel MacBook Pro 13, not sure if you can install Windows on M1, but I think I would like en emulator. It's hard being a Mac user. Any recommendations on how to install bootcamp and Windows licenses, etc?

For me having to be booted into Windows via Boot Camp and not being able to multitask with all my Mac apps was a nonstarter, but I'm sure this route would offer superior performance. Another option would be something like Parallels which fully emulates Windows, but within MacOS. I'm not sure if this would improve the performance issues I got with running through Wine.

At any rate I'd be interested to know how things work out for you as I'm also running a 13" Intel MacBook Pro