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[CorinaMarie 29,605]

@justforfun

I believe this is the Elusive White Pickup Truck 0x10630000.dat

Does that give you what you need to bonk it?

 

Edit: Wait!

I believe that one is accounted for, but I may have found a Maxis mistake and the model is called from a different exemplar.

Testing in progress...

[CorinaMarie 29,605]

Yep!

Here's the real culprit:

Exemplar 6534284a-096e6739-10910000 references the wrong model file.

And that explains why they stuck the Early Model T Car in the Air Force Base as a way to patch their mistake.

Here's the Borked Early Model T Exemplar.dat

If you change that to reference a Horse and Rider that'd prolly be the easiest fix and then also mention to peeps if they download the Maxis Air Force Base it'll override your override and so they need to make sure yours loads later.

[Kel9509 1,363]

9 minutes ago, CorinaMarie said:

And that explains why they stuck the Early Model T Car in the Air Force Base as a way to patch their mistake.

Would anyone else need a fix like this, even if they don't replace the cars with Victorian models?  I try to get all basic fixes for the game so if this fixes even a little error I'll probably install it.  Just so I understand, does this car model appear more often than it should or overwrite another car model?  And Maxis tried to fix it with the Air Force Base?

[CorinaMarie 29,605]

1 minute ago, Kel9509 said:

Would anyone else need a fix like this, even if they don't replace the cars with Victorian models?  I try to get all basic fixes for the game so if this fixes even a little error I'll probably install it.  Just so I understand, does this car model appear more often than it should or overwrite another car model?  And Maxis tried to fix it with the Air Force Base?

It was intended to be in the base game and its appearance ratio is fine.

Because they goofed on the model file reference, the little step-side white pickup truck would appear twice as often, but at night the extra would have slightly wrong headlights.

The fix would be changing that mistake in the Model Resource Key property of that exemplar. The S3Ds are already in SimCity_1.dat.

[SneakyDeaky 1,128]

Wow it came all the way around back to the Airforce Base 

[justforfun 7,802]

4 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

Exemplar 6534284a-096e6739-10910000 references the wrong model file.

And that explains why they stuck the Early Model T Car in the Air Force Base as a way to patch their mistake.

Here's the Borked Early Model T Exemplar.dat

If you change that to reference a Horse and Rider that'd prolly be the easiest fix and then also mention to peeps if they download the Maxis Air Force Base it'll override your override and so they need to make sure yours loads later.

Easy peasy! Thank you so much for looking into this. Out of interest, how did you find the wrong reference - by manually checking every vehicle exemplar or through some kind of automatic search? 

[CorinaMarie 29,605]

1 hour ago, justforfun said:

Easy peasy!

Lemon squeezy!

 

1 hour ago, justforfun said:

Out of interest, how did you find the wrong reference - by manually checking every vehicle exemplar or through some kind of automatic search?

That happens to be one of the little trucks I'd give my Cori MySim sometimes so I was quite familiar with its appearance. I opened SimCity_1.dat and sorted by the Entry column so I could quickly arrow thru all the PNG images.

 

Then with that highlighted, I sorted by Instance:

 

And I made the dat file and the pic of the S3D and posted. I was surprised imagining you'd overlooked it, but I know how a little detail can slip by in a massive project like yours. Then I tested with an override and the mysterious little truck still showed up! That proved you'd done all the right things and there was a deeper problem.

So I put away my magnifying glass and got out my microscope.

And by that I mean an easy way to search much deeper than just visually looking. Long ago I wrote some fancy Lua code so I could output all the Cohorts and Exemplars in a table format. (It really is a must-have for troubleshooting like this.) There's a .7z file attached to this post which has the GOG original and the CAM updated.

So I then searched for 0x10630000 within my text output:

^ I hadn't typed in my note (seen in this pic) until today.

 

And there it is in the wrong place in the Vehicle_EarlyModel_1091 exemplar.

This time I decided to test before posting. I replaced the incorrect model IID with 0x10640000 (Maxis cop car) so if it showed, I'd know this exemplar was indeed the cause of the pickup truck trouble.

In my test city, there are no police stations and the only files in plugins are cosmetic plus all your Horses and Buggies.

^ And this proves to me that is the correct exemplar to override.

Ofc, I didn't make any patch as I know you can do that now that you know where the wayward data is hiding.

[Simizen 1,098]

Watching this chat regarding the vehicle blockers unfold, and now I'm curious if maybe there's a way to have them blocked and then slowly introduced over time. Cause that'd be cool to have cities start off with horse and buggy, then move to the model T's and then later more modern cars.

No idea how much work that would take (quite a bit I imagine). Alternatively, maybe to have them appear after certain financial thresholds are reached by the sims, or certain rewards are unlocked? But I imagine stuff would get crazy complicated doing any of this

[CorinaMarie 29,605]

1 hour ago, Ryuu Tenno said:

I'm curious if maybe there's a way to have them blocked and then slowly introduced over time.

Sort of, but not exactly. Maybe.

I've had an idea for a few years how the automata might be completely revamped so that the silly fade in, travel two centimeters, and then fade back out could be fixed. I would start in the automata simulator and turn them all off for the random spawns. There might be some settings for them in the traffic simulator too, but I haven't peeked in either in years.

Then I'd attach Lua generators to various growable buildings. The ones created this way will drive around forever until they are set to expire (or things happen which affects them). With proper tweaking of the Lua code, I believe we could match the ratio of traffic to the population fairly well.

Later rewards could have their own automata generators so that could handle the upgrades to newer vehicles.

The only part I don't have any ideas for would be how to phase out the older models.

[SneakyDeaky 1,128]

30 minutes ago, CorinaMarie said:

Sort of, but not exactly. Maybe.

I've had an idea for a few years how the automata might be completely revamped so that the silly fade in, travel two centimeters, and then fade back out could be fixed. I would start in the automata simulator and turn them all off for the random spawns. There might be some settings for them in the traffic simulator too, but I haven't peeked in either in years.

Then I'd attach Lua generators to various growable buildings. The ones created this way will drive around forever until they are set to expire (or things happen which affects them). With proper tweaking of the Lua code, I believe we could match the ratio of traffic to the population fairly well.

Later rewards could have their own automata generators so that could handle the upgrades to newer vehicles.

The only part I don't have any ideas for would be how to phase out the older models.

I downloaded "Real Automata," which loads after the NAM for me to try and get as much out of the automata before it fades out, but it always does eventually, of course. It would be a great mod to have, especially today when lots of users could make videos/gifs instead of plain, old screenshots. I like the way automata looks when its moving in this game, especially with the 3D camera mod, but I find myself constantly pausing/and or speeding forward to try and get the right shot before they fade out so quickly. 

 

As for a mod that could introduce a different generation of transportation over time, that would be amazing! But I think there just isn't enough automata available to make such a mod look consistent? Outside of @justforfun's extensive mods for the Victorian era, we only have very little from the birth of the motorcar era, some Cadillacs, ect. and a few from the Mid Century period, from @justforfun, for instance. Then there's a great pack from @mikeseith of 60's vehicles and then we have a lot more to work with as we go forward, but that is if such a mod could even work? 

[Simizen 1,098]

2 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

The only part I don't have any ideas for would be how to phase out the older models.

well, as new lots are brought in (say some of the reward lots for example), you could have them become blockers

Like, the City Hall could probably be a fun one (if it works that is), where you could have it unlock new models upon being placed, and then, as it grows, begins to introduce/block older models.

If this logic could be tied to growables, that would certainly be interesting, and may actually work a bit better. Cause, then we could easily toss these onto Commercial Service lots, and you could get a car dealership that would sell newer cars, and after some time it would update as the city improves. But then, you'd still get things like Honest Carrie's Used Cars that would allow some of the older cars to stick around for a bit longer, before itself, being upgraded to eventually phase out the older models.

Though, the fun part is, if there's a way to get an amish community in the game to be able to retain the horse and buggies in portions of the town

1 hour ago, SneakyDeaky said:

But I think there just isn't enough automata available to make such a mod look consistent?

Yeah, I fully believe this would be a massive issue to contend with. But, to start it off, we could at least run with recolors of the Maxis defaults, which, while not perfect, would at least expand on it quite a bit.

 

Course, it now makes me wonder if it's possible to apply this same logic to the different vehicle props for lots, but, I am not asking or expecting anyone to even remotely try that, lol. I mean, if you want to with a few lots from time to time? Sure, be my guest, but while the rest of this is a lot of work, it'd take a legitimate team to run through all the lots and props to update everything and have it properly reflect how this would all work. So, more of a wishlist type thing, not something I'm ever expecting to happen for a while, if at all.

[justforfun 7,802]

14 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

And this proves to me that is the correct exemplar to override.

Ofc, I didn't make any patch as I know you can do that now that you know where the wayward data is hiding.

Oh, that LUA was the trick up your sleeve! Thank you so much, also for the link. I will make a patch when I can -sadly being quite busy with RL and not in a fun way. Lovely jubbly!

[justforfun 7,802]

10 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

Sort of, but not exactly. Maybe.

I've had an idea for a few years how the automata might be completely revamped so that the silly fade in, travel two centimeters, and then fade back out could be fixed. I would start in the automata simulator and turn them all off for the random spawns. There might be some settings for them in the traffic simulator too, but I haven't peeked in either in years.

Then I'd attach Lua generators to various growable buildings. The ones created this way will drive around forever until they are set to expire (or things happen which affects them). With proper tweaking of the Lua code, I believe we could match the ratio of traffic to the population fairly well.

Later rewards could have their own automata generators so that could handle the upgrades to newer vehicles.

The only part I don't have any ideas for would be how to phase out the older models.

I find the RealisticAutomata NAM mod works quite well in making automata persistent. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the problem with vehicles spawned by LUA files is that they roam the streets randomly, unless perhaps the LUA also sets up attractors. 

[SneakyDeaky 1,128]

22 minutes ago, justforfun said:

Oh, that LUA was the trick up your sleeve! Thank you so much, also for the link. I will make a patch when I can -sadly being quite busy with RL and not in a fun way. Lovely jubbly!

[SneakyDeaky 1,128]

8 hours ago, Ryuu Tenno said:

well, as new lots are brought in (say some of the reward lots for example), you could have them become blockers

Like, the City Hall could probably be a fun one (if it works that is), where you could have it unlock new models upon being placed, and then, as it grows, begins to introduce/block older models.

There is a mod already for City Hall which works similar. 

 

[CorinaMarie 29,605]

12 hours ago, SneakyDeaky said:

I downloaded "Real Automata,"...

I'll want to try that sometime then. Long ago I got one called Persistent Automata and I did like it better than vanilla, but it still doesn't satisfy me.

 

12 hours ago, SneakyDeaky said:

But I think there just isn't enough automata available to make such a mod look consistent?

My guess is if (and that's a very big IF) there was a mod that did all we wanted with age transitions then the model creators would fill in the gaps.

 

10 hours ago, Ryuu Tenno said:

well, as new lots are brought in (say some of the reward lots for example), you could have them become blockers

Since the only thing Lua related that we can attach to buildings (growable and ploppable) is the Automata Generators, Automata Attractors, and (prolly) Automata Repulsors, I don't see how any of those could be Blockers for which automata can spawn. 

 

2 hours ago, justforfun said:

Oh, that LUA was the trick up your sleeve!

Indeed. I believe I've posted the code somewhere so anyone can use it for their own projects. (It just requires Reader 1.5.4 and then a copy and paste and click the Play Button to run the code script.)

Here's the output from your first pack if you are curious: Cori's Lua Table Output - JFFHorseCarriagesPack1.txt

Then, for a random example, you could search for "Brougham1" using your fav text editor.

 

2 hours ago, justforfun said:

I will make a patch when I can -sadly being quite busy with RL and not in a fun way.

Sounds good. In the meantime peeps can use the same blocker I made for the Model T car on the previous page and that'll block the extra white pickup truck too for those who have not installed the Maxis Air Force Base.

 

2 hours ago, justforfun said:

I find the RealisticAutomata NAM mod works quite well in making automata persistent.

Sounds like another I should try. If the problem is already solved, then there's no need for me to take on a massive project.

 

2 hours ago, justforfun said:

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the problem with vehicles spawned by LUA files is that they roam the streets randomly, unless perhaps the LUA also sets up attractors.

Yes. You are completely correct.

Most of the Maxis Generators for random automata are indeed created with Default behavior which seems to be the same as the Random_Walk state. My thought is that, along with attractors and maybe some Bee_Line we could simulate reasonable traffic patterns. Could be it won't at all, but with the no fade out and don't disappear quickly, that might allow staging screenshots better when using the Stop Frame / Frame Advance cheat.

Here's the full list of what they can do:

BehaviorState = {
   DEFAULT         = 0,   -- resume default behavior (e.g. walk or drive along road paths)
   DISAPPEAR       = 1,   -- fade out
   BEE_LINE        = 2,   -- break from paths and head straight towards/away from attractor
   CROWD           = 3,   -- stop at current location, watch attractor
   QUEUE           = 4,   -- line up along closest path and wait
   STRIKE          = 6,   -- striking sim behavior
   IDLE            = 7,   -- wait for some event
   RIOT_LEADER     = 8,   -- move in random directions in riot mode
   RIOT_FOLLOWER   = 9,   -- follow another automaton in riot leader mode
   SCRIPTED        = 10,  -- tick behavior implemented by a lua script
   RANDOM_WALK     = 11,  -- move in random directions
   IGNITE_OCCUPANT = 12,  -- used for arsonist automata, USE WITH CAUTION
   PLOP_JUMP       = 15,  -- jump in response to a building plop (special purpose event)
   PLAYER_DRIVE    = 16,  -- controlled by player
   BUMPED          = 17,  -- collided with another automaton
   MAGNET          = 18,  -- pulled towards (or away from) attractor, regardless of elevation
   COLLIDE         = 20,  -- vehicle is controlled by particle collision system
   PULLOVER        = 21,  -- vehicle pulls to the side and stops
}

So yeah, it's only an idea I've considered trying someday just to see how it might unfold.

[SneakyDeaky 1,128]

27 minutes ago, CorinaMarie said:

I'll want to try that sometime then. Long ago I got one called Persistent Automata and I did like it better than vanilla, but it still doesn't satisfy me.

Sorry it's called "Realistic Automata Mod." It is incompatible with the "Persistent Automata Mod" and I think it changes how automata spawns during the day and night.

 

 

[SneakyDeaky 1,128]

It also increases traffic and I think it needs to load after NAM. 

[CorinaMarie 29,605]

11 minutes ago, SneakyDeaky said:

Sorry it's called "Realistic Automata Mod." It is incompatible with the "Persistent Automata Mod"

That's to be expected since it'll be the very same 6534284a-a998d30b-00000001 Automata Tuning exemplar.  

 

11 minutes ago, SneakyDeaky said:

It also increases traffic ...

Alright. I'll give it a whirl and I can tone it down if it seems too much for me.

 

11 minutes ago, SneakyDeaky said:

I think it needs to load after NAM.

That makes sense too if they supply their own version.

[justforfun 7,802]

6 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

Most of the Maxis Generators for random automata are indeed created with Default behavior which seems to be the same as the Random_Walk state. My thought is that, along with attractors and maybe some Bee_Line we could simulate reasonable traffic patterns. Could be it won't at all, but with the no fade out and don't disappear quickly, that might allow staging screenshots better when using the Stop Frame / Frame Advance cheat.

Here's the full list of what they can do:

BehaviorState = {
   DEFAULT         = 0,   -- resume default behavior (e.g. walk or drive along road paths)
   DISAPPEAR       = 1,   -- fade out
   BEE_LINE        = 2,   -- break from paths and head straight towards/away from attractor
   CROWD           = 3,   -- stop at current location, watch attractor
   QUEUE           = 4,   -- line up along closest path and wait
   STRIKE          = 6,   -- striking sim behavior
   IDLE            = 7,   -- wait for some event
   RIOT_LEADER     = 8,   -- move in random directions in riot mode
   RIOT_FOLLOWER   = 9,   -- follow another automaton in riot leader mode
   SCRIPTED        = 10,  -- tick behavior implemented by a lua script
   RANDOM_WALK     = 11,  -- move in random directions
   IGNITE_OCCUPANT = 12,  -- used for arsonist automata, USE WITH CAUTION
   PLOP_JUMP       = 15,  -- jump in response to a building plop (special purpose event)
   PLAYER_DRIVE    = 16,  -- controlled by player
   BUMPED          = 17,  -- collided with another automaton
   MAGNET          = 18,  -- pulled towards (or away from) attractor, regardless of elevation
   COLLIDE         = 20,  -- vehicle is controlled by particle collision system
   PULLOVER        = 21,  -- vehicle pulls to the side and stops

Thank you, Cori, very useful. I am using on-road bus stops which seem to attract the sims and make them queue in the middle of the road. I wonder whether a different command line could make them queue on the pavement instead. Will have a look at the LUA (one more thing lined up for next year!)

[CorinaMarie 29,605]

27 minutes ago, justforfun said:

I am using on-road bus stops which seem to attract the sims and make them queue in the middle of the road.

Goodness! Didn't their SimMommy and SimDaddy teach them better?!? That's downright dangerous.

 

27 minutes ago, justforfun said:

I wonder whether a different command line could make them queue on the pavement instead.

Seems quite possible.

There is a path_offset in meters which can be included in the behavior. A positive value is towards the center of the cell and a negative is towards edge of the cell. This is used to deliberately make walking strikers to be in the road for the generator.base_strike_gen_2 code.

[ncamferdam 1,490]

This may require its own topic, but I'm hoping it's something simple that I'm just missing.

Has anyone encountered an issue with the Lot Editor where certain props will appear as normal (both when you open a lot in Lot Editor and when the lot appears in-game), but they don't appear as available to add? To be specific:

1. The lots appear to be fully populated with props both in the editor and in-game
2. The props can be moved, rotated, and even duplicated
3. The props have a TGI number but no exemplar name (the latter is just <Un-Named>)
4. These TGI numbers can never be found in the Texture Catalog
5. Despite their presence in the lot, they do not appear as an available prop to be added

Basically, unless they already exist on a lot as downloaded off of Simtropolis, I can't use any of these props.

So far, I've only encountered this with some Simmer2 lots and with large portions of the PEG-CDK3 collection. For example, basically all of the trucks, trains, and forklift props on the PEG warehouse dock puzzle pieces suffer from this.

For example:

[Simizen 1,098]

check if it's a singular prop, or a prop family. I run into that occasionally when I forget that families exist

Otherwise, I'm sure @CorinaMarie would be able to help if the family thing isn't the issue

[ncamferdam 1,490]

2 minutes ago, Ryuu Tenno said:

check if it's a singular prop, or a prop family. I run into that occasionally when I forget that families exist

Otherwise, I'm sure @CorinaMarie would be able to help if the family thing isn't the issue

Ah, that seems to be it, thank you. I actually had never added props that way, so I'm always learning something new, lol.

Glad I was correct that it was just a simple thing.

[CorinaMarie 29,605]

3 minutes ago, Ryuu Tenno said:

Otherwise, I'm sure @CorinaMarie would be able to help if the family thing isn't the issue

Thanks for your vote of confidence, but lotting isn't my specialty at all. I've managed to do it a tiny bit, but I know almost nothing about LE.

[Simizen 1,098]

ah, okay. I figured since you've virtually reverse engineered the game via lua, that you've probably seen other things that could help out

[simmering 2,638]

So my traffic guy keeps asking for airports. I built him two already but he doesn't seem to notice. Is there a way to resolve this or can I fire him?

[justforfun 7,802]

13 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

Goodness! Didn't their SimMommy and SimDaddy teach them better?!? That's downright dangerous.

Haha, indeed! Too bad I can't locate the LUA though. Given its name, I assumed the culprit was the BSC_DAE_BusandTaxiAttractors_propsandlua, which however doesn't seem to contain any attractors for sims, only for buses. Do you have any idea where this puzzling behaviour might originate? My sims end up standing in a queue while crossing the road and I'm seriously worried about their health!

[CorinaMarie 29,605]

2 hours ago, simmering said:

So my traffic guy keeps asking for airports.

The trigger for that is located in 0xFFE69CFC (adv_transportation.lua) as follows:

a.trigger  = [[game.g_city_co2_population + game.g_city_co3_population > 40000 and game.g_medium_airport_s2_count +
game.g_small_airport_s2_count +
game.g_large_airport_s2_count +
game.g_medium_airport_s3_count +
game.g_small_airport_s3_count +
game.g_large_airport_s3_count == 0 and game.g_current_co2_cap > tuning_constants.CAP_MEDIUM]]

So I'm going to guess the airport counts are not getting updated and the game is seeing them all as zero since the way that is written any one of them could be 1 or more and the whole trigger should become invalid.

Or maybe the CO$$$ current cap isn't updating. I presume you've run time a month or six after plopping?

Btw, have you ever tried my Cori Reports before? I seem to recall it would show the values for all of those variables.

OTOH, I could make a patch that would remove that single advice completely (without having to overwrite the original code), but then you'd never get that message even if it was needed.

[CorinaMarie 29,605]

2 hours ago, justforfun said:

Do you have any idea where this puzzling behaviour might originate?

Nary a clue.

I do have all of the Maxis Lua code extracted from SimCity_1.dat so I can use N++ to Seach in Files to find most anything I'm looking for, but I don't have the same bus stops as you so I've no clue at all.