New to SC4: Help with hole digging lots

[Sunrader 41]

Hi, All!

I've been around for a couple of weeks, very new to SC4, coming at it as a die-hard Sims 2 fan just learning to make terrains for that game. I had no idea you guys were here and, at least, as devoted as we are! I'm loving seeing what all is happening here with SC4 and getting to know this new-to-me game.

I'm just getting into plugins and have had no trouble with God Terraforming in Mayor Mode, Extra Cheats, or BRF Tunnel and Slope Mod, but I've been experimenting with hole-digging lots and can't get them working. I'm sure it's user error, but can someone point me to the right place to ask for help on that?

Happy to meet you all!

[CorinaMarie 29,605]

Hiya, @Sunrader. Welcome to Simtropolis.
 

2 hours ago, Sunrader said:

I've been experimenting with hole-digging lots and can't get them working. I'm sure it's user error, but can someone point me to the right place to ask for help on that?

Unless there's a bug, this is prolly easy enough to describe right here.

Step 1: (For this demo) Clear an area with the bulldozer:

 

Step 2: Grab a hole digger lot:

 

Step 3: Plop it somewhere:

 

Step 4: Grab the road tool:

 

Step 5: Drag the road thru the plopped digger lot:

 

Step 6: Notice it made a depression with the middle part being exactly however many meters lower based on the digger selected. What happens on either side of it will depend on how your slope mod handles that part. (I'm using a different slope mod than you selected.)

 

Step 7: Bulldoze what you just created:

 

Step 9: Plop a single road tile where the digger used to be:

 

Step 10: Continue plopping road tile stubs adjacent starting next to the first plop and moving outward:

 

Let me know if that helps.

[Cyclone Boom 16,875]

Hi @Sunrader and welcome to SC4 and Simtropolis!

Since you've just joined, this means you can now commence your mayoral duties in the city. You'll find how SC4 has potential which is only limited by imagination and creativity, and mix this with the huge range of custom content available, and it expands on the possibilities even further.

Hope you enjoy the site and community, and feel free to ask in new and/or existing forum topics if unsure of anything. We're all here to help.

[Sunrader 41]

14 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

Hiya, @Sunrader. Welcome to Simtropolis.
 

Unless there's a bug, this is prolly easy enough to describe right here.

 

Let me know if that helps.

Thank you so much @CorinaMarie, that's brilliant! But I'm still stuck and please let me know if I should move this! I can't get past this point. I've taken out the slope mods to eliminate variables, and I tried the other hole-digging lots, and removed those, so you see these in the game in the pic, but when I drag a road, I get this error each time. I can't find where I'm going wrong. I tried raising the overall elevation because I saw posts saying people were trying the lots too close to water. I bulldozed first like you said (I hadn't done that before). I don't know anything about zoning. Does there need to be any zoning before I place these?

@Cyclone Boom, thank you so much! It's wonderful to step into this world with you all!

[CorinaMarie 29,605]

14 minutes ago, Sunrader said:

But I'm still stuck and please let me know if I should move this!

We made it its own topic now.

In your pic, is that showing an attempt to drag the road thru the digger lot? If so, are you starting in the adjacent cell to it?

[Sunrader 41]

2 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

We made it its own topic now.

In your pic, is that showing an attempt to drag the road thru the digger lot? If so, are you starting in the adjacent cell to it?

Yes, this is when I try to drag through/over. I've checked the ones that say they require a road/rail/whatever and tried different things... As to the cell, I've tried a couple things, the one next to it, just generally over it from a few away, etc. I looked at videos, it seems straightforward, but... What should I be doing?

Thank you for moving it. I didn't want to be THAT kind of newbie.

[CorinaMarie 29,605]

10 minutes ago, Sunrader said:

What should I be doing?

Have you tried cursing at it?

The only other thing which comes to mind is be sure you are dragging thru it in the direction of line on the digger lot and not from the side. Otherwise, we'll have to wait for the experts to get here. There might be something it needs from the install that's missing.

 

10 minutes ago, Sunrader said:

Thank you for moving it. I didn't want to be THAT kind of newbie.

You're welcome. It's easy for us to shuffle things around when we can move complete posts so just let us know if it ever needs doing again.

[Sunrader 41]

@CorinaMarie, I haven't graduated to cursing quite yet, no. I've just read that SC4 players use a 4GB patch, which Sims 2 does as well, so I understand that. Maybe I need to do that? Can't hurt? I've been searching but can't find a link to one that stands alone for SC4, only one in NAM 37, which looks more involved than I'm ready for. Do you have a link to one that I should try? 

 

I'll try some more directions of dragging, etc. as well. Do the arrows on the lot matter? How would you turn them to a different direction if you need to? I know this has to be a very simple thing, but I've just never played the game before. I appreciate the patience of answering!

[Cyclone Boom 16,875]

3 minutes ago, Sunrader said:

How would you turn them to a different direction if you need to?

Try pressing the Home / End keys to rotate a lot clockwise or counter-clockwise.

You may also find this article useful for SC4 keyboard shortcuts:
https://www.wiki.sc4devotion.com/index.php?title=Keyboard_Shortcuts
 

[CorinaMarie 29,605]

The 4 GB patch is the same as the one in NAM, but here's a direct linky too. The way I do it is to copy that file right into the folder with the SimCity 4.exe then double click the 4 GB patch file and the rest is easy.

[Sunrader 41]

Thank you both. The keyboard shortcuts, very useful, that works fine. The 4GB patch is the same as the one I've used before, so now that's done. Neither made any difference to the "can't use in reserved" error, but still feels like progress. I tried different directions as well as both up and down lots, nope. If you think of anything else I might be missing on this, please let me know!

[Cyclone Boom 16,875]

@Sunrader

I found how the hole digging lots you're using appear to be this set, which is different than the NAM includes. There is also a set on the STEX available here, but it appears this is an older version. Now the one which @CorinaMarie explained in her post above is the NAM one, and so maybe it's worth giving those a try and see if they work for you.

In case it might help, I've uploaded a zip of these to the temporary hosting WeTransfer site.

Here's the link: https://we.tl/t-9sK57ac1fv

Just copy the folder from inside the zip into your Plugins folder somewhere, and it might be worth removing the existing ones you've got installed.

The lots appear in the Miscellaneous Transportation menu where the bus stop is.

[SIM-ple Jack 17,444]

44 minutes ago, Sunrader said:

@CorinaMarie, I haven't graduated to cursing quite yet, no. I've just read that SC4 players use a 4GB patch, which Sims 2 does as well, so I understand that. Maybe I need to do that? Can't hurt? I've been searching but can't find a link to one that stands alone for SC4, only one in NAM 37, which looks more involved than I'm ready for. Do you have a link to one that I should try? 

 

I'll try some more directions of dragging, etc. as well. Do the arrows on the lot matter? How would you turn them to a different direction if you need to? I know this has to be a very simple thing, but I've just never played the game before. I appreciate the patience of answering!

This is almost an obsolete topic with the new self-destructing digger/raiser set in NAM37. Simply scroll through the heights with Tab and make a selection. Then press 7 on the side keyboard for raising or digging. No more getting it in the right direction, no more expensive plop or demo costs. If you don't want the whole NAM, just pull the D/R folder out of it and drop it in plug-ins. 

[Sunrader 41]

Sigh, you guys are so helpful and I just can't seem to figure out what's going on. You were right that I tried old ones first.

smoncrie 2004...here at ...files/file/3599-hole-digging-lots/ and Shadow Assassin 2008 at LEX ...csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1544.

So, now I've removed the ones I had and put in the ones @Cyclone Boom linked (thank you) but it does exactly the same thing. @SIM-ple Jack, these are the same ones you are referring too, right? I don't have a number pad/side keyboard, but I get the gist. Sigh.

[Cyclone Boom 16,875]

This really is rather quite odd. What I wonder at this point is if there might be something conflicting in your Plugins to prevent them working properly.

So let's try and reduce the variables and narrow this down. To test this, try renaming your Plugins folder to something else (anything will do), and then create a new empty Plugins folder and only install the hole digging lots. Your existing content will be preserved in the renamed folder, and then it'll only load these up in the new one. Then create a brand new empty region, establish a tile, and see whether it makes a difference when plopping them.

Assuming it does (here's hoping!), then it'd be worth doing a binary method search to identify the culprit(s).

[Sunrader 41]

1 hour ago, Cyclone Boom said:

This really is rather quite odd. What I wonder at this point is if there might be something conflicting in your Plugins to prevent them working properly.

So let's try and reduce the variables and narrow this down. To test this, try renaming your Plugins folder to something else (anything will do), and then create a new empty Plugins folder and only install the hole digging lots.

Ah, a player after my own heart - a fellow SimScientist. Sadly, that made no difference, but, anyway, it doesn't seem to be installation or plugin conflict so... yay? I ran the test as you said, new empty Plugins folder, and tested with a new region, new empty city, with an Up lot, so I can be sure it's not because I might be too near water.  Same result.

I'm sure it must be something embarrassingly stupid, but... let me ask this... in CorinaMarie's 3rd picture, you can see the lot, the blue square with an arrow. After you place that, can you still see it? For me, I see it while the cursor is on it, but after placing, there's no visible lot there, but the game says that square is reserved. It's not what I would expect because it makes it a tad hard to find where I place it, so... is it invisible after you place it, before you run the road over it? If not, maybe that's a clue to what I'm doing wrong? Also, instructions are saying that you can pass the road over one side or the other. I've been trying to place it over the top, like along the same route as the arrow, though, I've tried everything. But what does it mean over one side or the other... if it's just one square? Am I missing something there?

Btw, in Sims 2 world, we call that a 50/50. Your way sounds way more fancy.

 

[CorinaMarie 29,605]

3 hours ago, Sunrader said:

in CorinaMarie's 3rd picture, you can see the lot, the blue square with an arrow. After you place that, can you still see it?

Here I've plopped several of the same 7.5m hole digger lots:

^ The one to the right (blue square with the white arrow and the $75 cost hovering nearby) is the same lot still on the cursor ready for plopping.

Since you cannot see yours after plopping, that leads me to believe there's some auxiliary file missing. When I catch up with other beeps, I'll do CB's suggested test with plugins emptied out placing only the hole diggers and raisers inside. Then I should get the same error you're seeing.

Hang on. I'm sure there's an answer somewhere..

[CorinaMarie 29,605]

Ok. I've done the test with only the content from CB's attachment (that's the NAM 36's Hole Diggers and Ground Raisers folder and contents).

Still no problem at all:

[BartonThinks 3,416]

Hey, @Sunrader - A quick question: What are you trying to drag through the hole digger lots? The digger lots will only work if you drag a regular road through them. Is there any chance that you're trying to drag a one-way road, street, avenue, or rail network (or perhaps the hole diggers themselves) through the lot instead of the regular road?

Also, as @SIM-ple Jack noted, the current version of NAM has a different type of hole-digger lot that could solve the problem. If you run the NAM installer, you'll find them under Miscellaneous > Hole Diggers and Ground Raisers > Auto-Destruct Lots. These lots don't need to have anything dragged through them to work. If you're still having issues, I'd suggest trying those instead.

 

-- Edit ---

4 hours ago, Sunrader said:

Also, instructions are saying that you can pass the road over one side or the other. I've been trying to place it over the top, like along the same route as the arrow, though, I've tried everything. But what does it mean over one side or the other... if it's just one square? Am I missing something there?

I missed this the first time I went through the thread. If I'm understanding you correctly, this might help explain things. If you try to place one square of road on top of the hole digger, nothing will happen. You need to place the hole digger lot, start a road on one side, and then drag the road into the lot (covering two squares), or through the lot (covering three squares).

Here's a quick step-by-step with some screenshots. (Apologies if I'm just covering what Cori already said.)

1. Place the hole digger lot on a vacant spot.
2. Switch from the hole digger lot to the regular road
3. Click on a square to either side of the hole digger lot to place a road. Hold down the mouse button so that you can drag the road through the hole digger lot.
4. Start by dragging the road into the hole digger lot...
5. ...and then finish by dragging it out the other side.
6. Release the mouse button.

[Sunrader 41]

@BartonThinks, hey, thanks for the help. I'm doing what you are describing, but the thing is it never gets that far. I never see the lot placed. (I've been trying to drag over the invisible lot correctly, as you describe, but, of course, that didn't work.) I only see the blue arrow thing under the cursor, then a puff of construction smoke and nothing but the game saying the cell is reserved. As for the type of road, in making Sims 2 terrains (what I'm doing with SC4 and why I don't know the game), we can only use the regular road, so it's the only one I use, anyway. I tried others only with the oldest hole digging lots that required others.

I thought maybe I have an old version of the game, which I do (someone gave it to me long ago), so I checked that, but even though it's old, it's version 1.1.638.0 which all these mods say is ok.

I will go to NAM37 if necessary, but that's so extensive and I don't even know what's in there or what's normal in the game, so that seems a bit daunting. I'd have to make the Java installer work first.

@CorinaMarie, that was such a good idea, too. Darn.

Btw, is there a way to turn off all the special effects associated with building and destroying stuff? It's cute the first time, but it takes a while for the dust to settle and stuff.

 

[CorinaMarie 29,605]

5 minutes ago, Sunrader said:

I checked that, but even though it's old, it's version 1.1.638.0 which all these mods say is ok.

Yep. Afaik, that is sufficient for these to work. (Tho I am using Gog's 1.1.641.0.)

 

6 minutes ago, Sunrader said:

Btw, is there a way to turn off all the special effects associated with building and destroying stuff?

There's no easy toggle to click. I did look into this a wee bit to see if I could mod it to not do that, but didn't have any luck. I have a feeling it's buried in one of the EffectDirs thingers and those are complicated. So, for now, the answer is no.

 

One more (prolly unhelpful) idea: What settings do you have for the graphic options? Maybe, perhaps, wild guessing they are set to low and so the game isn't showing you the lot after plopping. (I doubt this is the cause of the problem, but I'm grasping at straws now.)

Here's how mine are set atm:

[BartonThinks 3,416]

3 minutes ago, Sunrader said:

@BartonThinks, hey, thanks for the help. I'm doing what you are describing, but the thing is it never gets that far. I never see the lot placed. (I've been trying to drag over the invisible lot correctly, as you describe, but, of course, that didn't work.) I only see the blue arrow thing under the cursor, then a puff of construction smoke and nothing but the game saying the cell is reserved. As for the type of road, in making Sims 2 terrains (what I'm doing with SC4 and why I don't know the game), we can only use the regular road, so it's the only one I use, anyway. I tried others only with the oldest hole digging lots that required others.

I thought maybe I have an old version of the game, which I do (someone gave it to me long ago), so I checked that, but even though it's old, it's version 1.1.638.0 which all these mods say is ok.

I will go to NAM37 if necessary, but that's so extensive and I don't even know what's in there or what's normal in the game, so that seems a bit daunting. I'd have to make the Java installer work first.

@CorinaMarie, that was such a good idea, too. Darn.

Btw, is there a way to turn off all the special effects associated with building and destroying stuff? It's cute the first time, but it takes a while for the dust to settle and stuff.

 

What format is the copy of the game that you're playing? Is it an old copy on disc, or did someone provide you with a digital copy? I know that other players have had trouble with mods when they've tried to play not-strictly-legal copies of the game.

For what it's worth, most of the stuff that comes with the NAM is optional, so if you un-check most of the boxes during the installation, you can avoid adding too much stuff onto the game. I know how overwhelming it can feel at first.

[Sunrader 41]

Oh, so we're at that moment when you start thinking things like maybe you're not holding your mouth right or the moon's out of phase. LOL. Because, @CorinaMarie, you were right! There was actually no option set, not low or high or anything for any of those, which I had seen, but, since I didn't know what they were I didn't change them. I put them like yours and now it works perfectly! I did say all along that it was probably something stupid, right?! Hahahahahaha, thank you all so much! Hahahahaha!

@BartonThinks, I'm sure I'll try them as soon as I recover from the trauma of this one! Thank you!

[BartonThinks 3,416]

Just now, Sunrader said:

@BartonThinks, I'm sure I'll try them as soon as I recover from the trauma of this one! Thank you!

Glad to hear you got it sorted out. 

[CorinaMarie 29,605]

3 hours ago, Sunrader said:

I put them like yours and now it works perfectly!

Woot!

Ok, now another thing for a new player I super highly recommend is my NKO mod. This'll save you from getting frustrated as you play when you start providing amenities like schools and medical and suddenly all your low wealth (R$) homes upgrade to R$$ or R$$$ and then dilapidate, fill back up with double or triple the amount of R$, and throw your whole economy out of whack.

Trust me on this one: Cori's_No_Kickout_Lower_Wealth_CAMpatible.dat

And you can read about it here if you are curious. (Note: That's not compatible with CAM, but early on I'd recommend playing CAMless anyhow. Should you ever install CAM, let us know and we'll modify CAM's control file directly to still allow this.)

Then also, toss this one in plugins too: Less Abandonment

[Sunrader 41]

Ok! I'll check those out. Thank you!

I'm still learning terraforming stuff right now. Any others I should look at in that area?

[CorinaMarie 29,605]

There's a whole slew of things you can look into as bug fixes and patches, but those two above are the really biggies IMO. Here are a few places to check out tho for more stuff:

• A really good Omnibus article by @BC Canuck : CAROL'S LIST - An index of SimCity 4 Tutorials and Resources
• Another good starting point is Rob's Guide to SimCity 4 YouTube series by @rob_mtl.
• And then my About Me profile page. (Scroll down a wee bit there for a list of linkys including Terrain stuff.)

[SIM-ple Jack 17,444]

4 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

You don't need to have your settings set this high. Medium will do. It will be less draggy once the tile starts filling up. Visual Effects was your culprit, I see. #of cars and any other automata I turn to low. Draw Speed, well, I don't have a clue what that does. I turn everything up high only when I want a screen shot with all the eye candy.

[Cyclone Boom 16,875]

@Sunrader

Wow! That really is quite something how the graphics options were the problem there. Great that it did the trick!

It does seem unusual what firstly has made the options be greyed out there, and like something in the SimCity 4.cfg file which got corrupted possibly. This is a file in the root of the "SimCity 4" folder (in Documents) and stores game settings and the last open region as a preference. Maybe there's some graphics rule which wasn't being applied properly and that was the culprit, although it still seems a bit baffling how a graphics issue can affect gameplay functionality. That part is quite bizarre, but it certainly is worth bearing in mind for future random glitches in the game. Sometimes computers seem to have a mind of their own also it seems.

In terms of graphics options, the shadows are the biggest performance hit for how they can cause the game to lag more while scrolling. You may find keeping them set to Low is worth doing while building, and then set to Medium or High when wanting to see your cities in their full glory. Each to their own in this sense.

Speaking of bug fixes, this is something Cori and I are planning to re-create and release as a collection in due course. We'd go through and test each individually to make sure the bugs can be firstly reproduced, and then identified and fixed. The idea is to make it easier for new mayors to install the essentials as a base groundwork for later adding custom content. A notable one is the I-HT Jobs fix, which contrary to long established belief can simply be copied into one's Plugins folder.

There's also a few other things which might yet need fixing, such as glitches with particular buildings in how they display at certain zoom levels and rotations.

Stay tuned for that anyway...