[SOLVED] No Boats During Building a Canal

[Raymond7cn 6,776]

35 minutes ago, Cyclone Boom said:

thank you also Raymond for posting this topic in the first place

Thank you very much Cyclone, And it's kind of a big honor to me, I mean it. I know there are many forums about SimCity 4. But to me, there is only one community. (Simtropolis). I still remembered when I first go to Vancouver, I had a big question, Why I feel it's such a beautiful city here even the same plants and same mountain same water same air. Then I got the answer is 'people', It's just kind and polite and warm and helpful people here makes me feel such different. So everything here that attract me is thanks to your efforts, You guys built the most beautiful city in Simtropolis. The Honor belongs to You !

Sincerely,

-- Raymond

 

[rsc204 21,866]

Ever feel like you've too much SHIP to deal with, now we can all thank @CorinaMarie for that:

Having spent a good amount of time playing with the LUA changes, I've come to two conclusions. First that the issue of making boats both appear and remain persistent is clearly resolved. Although ensuring the canals are built a certain way, trying to put stations near non-straight sections, is necessary to spawn them reliably. Secondly, as per the above picture, I'm drowning in ships.

Certainly it's going to take time to find a set of values that works more generally for all. The can't mod/won't mod crowd will demand an out of box experience, but we can accommodate say a low, med and high option at least. Of course those not afraid of Reader can tweak the LUA with ease thanks to Cori's excellent commenting of what each value does. The problem is right now, that test city above was built intentionally to spawn many, many boats, so it was successful in that regard. Therefore I'm calling on anyone interested in CAN-AM, or who has a pre-existing CAN-AM system, to help with some feedback to find a nice balanced set of values that works in many different setups. Anyone interested can either respond here or PM me as desired. Without any help in this area, I'm afraid I simply don't have the time to do this alone and likely won't for some time. This is no big deal and just requires you have a functioning CAN-AM system and are willing to provide feedback on different values and the # of boats you are seeing.

The other aspects of CAN-AM, which I do intend to alter, as follows:

• Modernise (SLURP) the CAN-AM stations transit modding
• Convert the corner CAN-AM piece to function as a diagonal (already handled - see screenshot)
  Actually this works better, since the boats don't jump about the place, even when used as a corner, it makes for smoother automata. So it's a twofer.
• Converting the Road/Ave crossings from L2 to L1
  This is fairly simple to do and would be optional. I personally feel this would be much better. Of course El-Rail, Rail (PP Viaducts), Monorail and Highway don't work at L1, likewise OWR, so those will be left as is.
• Try to add some form of diagonal crossing support (tentative)

I've already SLURPed the Cal CAN-AM stations, including the addition of "Signs", like RTMT lots use, making them easier to find:

I've attached a copy of the updated stations to this post, for those who'd like to try them out. You still need the same dependencies as the originals and it replaces all the original Lot Files entirely. Coupled with Corina's updated Automata scripts/DAT, CAN-AM is working for me the best it ever has.

CAL Canal - CANAM Stations SLURPed.dat

[Tyberius06 12,263]

Hi!

Sorry, Robin, I had noticed that you pinged me a couple of weeks ago in this thread, but I was busy both with RL and job, and started finally cleaning the Polska files up, and I didn't find the time to read to topic through properly and be able to understand what's going on. Sadly I still don't have much time, but CAM-AM something which I've been interested in for a long time, but never have the knowladge how to use it properly. Also it's limited (as far as I know) to 3-4(?) canal types (SG, SG-CAL - IN THE NAM, and Moonlignt - outside of the NAM) and I mostly used the other type of CAL canals and Paeng Urban Canals based on PEGs models... But actually in future cities I'm planning to build a network with boats whenever it comes that actually.  So I see, when I finish the first phase of the polska stuffs (more or less half of it is ready), and I try to find out something to help you out with this.

By the way... Alex and I were talking about the possibilities of draggable PEDmalls last year,  and I was curious about that it would be possible to use one of the inactive SAM networks to make additinal draggable networks. Now it came to my mind, if the same would be possible to replace the puzzle pieces on CAM-AM with dragable parts... Or would that be a waste of place in the available SAM range?

- Tyberius

[rsc204 21,866]

7 hours ago, Tyberius06 said:

Also it's limited (as far as I know) to 3-4(?) canal types

Absolutely not, it was very smartly designed and can accommodate any canal system. For example Moonlight simply did the necessary modding to make his canals CAN-AM compatible. Likewise Diggis was able to tweak the mod, so that you can run four different canals at once. It's totally possible to add new canals, but due to packaging requirements, you'd have to release some models with the CAN-AM modding, if you wanted to distribute such a mod. As such, you quickly run into the old permissions problem, perhaps with the more relaxed times these days, it may be possible now?

8 hours ago, Tyberius06 said:

Sadly I still don't have much time, but CAM-AM something which I've been interested in for a long time, but never have the knowladge how to use it properly.

CAN-AM is really not a very complex mod, at it's core is a small number of puzzle pieces that make it work. Other than that you just need some stations and the otherwise eye-candy canal pieces which fit around everything else.

8 hours ago, Tyberius06 said:

Now it came to my mind, if the same would be possible to replace the puzzle pieces on CAM-AM with dragable parts

I wouldn't use a SAM reserved range personally, it would be a waste of ID allocations as much as anything, because CAN-AM uses so few pieces. Right now it consists of 4 base pieces and crossings only. But that doesn't matter so terribly, one could replace the Puzzle Pieces with a starter and make it a draggable that way. The complication is retaining the flexibility of multiple-width canals without multiple starters, that could be fun (RUL2 wise).

Whilst I support draggable totally, I never understood why people hate Puzzle Pieces so much. It would take some testing to see how well CAN-AM works without puzzle pieces, my intended changes/additions would more likely be additional pieces in the tab-ring.

[Tyberius06 12,263]

40 minutes ago, rsc204 said:

As such, you quickly run into the old permissions problem, perhaps with the more relaxed times these days, it may be possible now?

Yepp, mostly I was thinking about the same. But theoretically can the PEG pond pieces (what Paeng used for his URC) be CAN-AM pieces too? Or it would require the original gmax file, what we probably don't have.

41 minutes ago, rsc204 said:

Whilst I support draggable totally, I never understood why people hate Puzzle Pieces so much. It would take some testing to see how well CAN-AM works without puzzle pieces, my intended changes/additions would more likely be additional pieces in the tab-ring.

I wouldn't mind it at all. I'm not against the puzzle pieces, at all. Sometimes they are quite usefull. So any addition for CAN-AM is most welcomed from my side!  

[rsc204 21,866]

48 minutes ago, Tyberius06 said:

But theoretically can the PEG pond pieces (what Paeng used for his URC) be CAN-AM pieces too?

Unless I've misunderstood something, absolutely that should be possible. I've also had an idea I've yet to test that would allow for multiple models to be put together on the fly, I just don't know if that will work in respect of transit models or not until I can try it. But if this works, it could open up some interesting possibilities that would make the problems re: redistribution a non-issue.

[rsc204 21,866]

I had been thinking for a while about switching CAN-AM over to the PEG canals, I just never got around to it. So I actually properly checked the CAN-AM files in NAM today and found a few interesting things. As I figured it's real easy to mod CAN-AM to work with any other canal/waterway system you prefer. In fact, it's almost too easy, from previous digging into the files, it certainly looked like more work.

So as you can see, I've managed to make a working override for Peg's CSK2 canals, so I'll quickly move on to the how. The short answer is that it just requires overridding two exemplars, altering the link (RKT), to the alternate models for the 1x1 water and 1x1 canal edge models from your preferred canal/waterway.

Spoiler

Key to this is understanding the split between the Puzzle Piece based preview pieces and the actual models when plopped. The latter of which combine the original transit models for overpasses with T21'd props for the canal. The technique I'm outlining here involves ignoring the previews, after all, they'll still help you to know what you are placing, they just remain in the default style. Making those all match is considerable work and would likely require copies of the original models to be distributed. Since they are not necessary, I figure why bother.

Anyhew, CAN-AM includes two options for either SG's or CAL's remade variant to choose from during NAM installation. Depending on which you choose, you'll have one of these files in the Network Addon Mod/Canal Addon Mod folder:

• NetworkAddonMod_CanAM_Props_CAL.dat
• NetworkAddonMod_CanAM_Props_SG.dat

Both Contain a 1x1 Water tile and 1x1 Outer tile, with models and exemplars for each. It's these exemplars that the T21'd canal props link to, rather than mess around editing all the T21s or replacing the models, we simply need a modified copy of these two exemplars. All that needs changing is the RKT property, give them the respective ID for the canal pieces and load that file after the Network Addon Mod folder, you've a working override.

One other problem that you can come across, which I did using Pegasus' CDK2 multi-width canals, is that the canal edge piece might not be rotated the same as the original NAM piece. The easiest solution is to take a copy of the S3D models for that piece, then use Model Tweaker to rotate it as required. In fact, for the CDK canals I also needed to offset the prpo by 1.5m on the Y (Z) Axis to ensure it lined up correctly. We can do this all with Model Tweaker, the copied S3D files link back to the original model's textures still.

The biggest missing piece right now is a lack of stations, since they have some specific requirements. However, in the case of the CDK, we can use CDK Wharf models that already exist, I've got to dig a bit more to find a solution for the Passenger Ferry stops. I seem to recall the CDK did have functional ferries, using the Subway network to represent the travel part. But, presumably we can re-purpose those lots to a nice Ferry stop. Really, stations are the biggest headache, unless there is an overhanging prop you can put on the canal piece to add a pontoon or landing. Of course we can just use the regular canal edges in a lot and make them functional, but that lacks something visually.

For now though, the basic override has been attached if anyone wants to play with it.

NetworkAddonMod_CanAM_Props_PEG-CSK2.dat

It just requires you have "PEG_CSK2_RESOURCE.dat" installed, although obviously it's a bit useless without the actual CDK multi-width canal lots too.

Since it requires only the same basic modifications, I've also made the newer  CDK2 PPond style canals.

Other than using different IDs for the models, this was identical to the original variant, attached below.

NetworkAddonMod_CanAM_Props_PEG-CSK2-PPOND.dat

This requires "PEG_CSK2-PPOND_RESOURCE.dat", from the CDK PPond Canals.

Note only one canal type can exist for CAN-AM, without much more intensive T21 modding such that Diggis used for his multiple CAN-AM mod. But if I can put some stations together, we've all the pieces to make this a reality. Also that these files need to load AFTER the Network Addon Mod folder. For now, chucking them into z___NAM should be sufficient.

On 09/01/2020 at 1:56 PM, Tyberius06 said:

But theoretically can the PEG pond pieces (what Paeng used for his URC) be CAN-AM pieces too? Or it would require the original gmax file, what we probably don't have.

I've done some actual checking and Paeng's canals are a bit more complex, because it takes various models to make up each canal piece. It's all theoretically possible, the issues come with how best to implement it, it certainly would be more challenging than what's outlined here for sure.

[Raymond7cn 6,776]

I know this thread has moved on to the professional part of experts, but I couldn't resist. I even could imaging that you guys can rewrite a new simcity4 now. these last couple of months in simtropolis. I almost keep on speaking 'amazing' or 'this's impossible' everyday. Not to mention the good news of new NAM is coming. I'm sorry I couldn't contribute more due to my studying of BAT recently. thank you Robin, thank you Cori, thank you Cyclone, thank you Tyberius, Thanks to all of your effect.

Sincerely,

-- Raymond

[Raymond7cn 6,776]

Dear all, I don't know if it's appropriate to reply a sloved topic, however I saw CB said 'Feedback is welcomed.', So I want to ask a further question here, if it's a wrong place to ask, I will create a new thread of it.

Inspired by Terring's futurist CJ, I thought maybe I could make some BATs just like some come from a science-fiction show. Frankly, I didn't know much about it except a movie The Fifth Element, Then the first idea came into my mind was made some flying vehicles on a futurist road through modifing the CAN-AM mod, After couple of days of True3d model study I got these:

You can tell there are still some problem need to be solved, such as details of taxi and road and the nightlight, but I think those could be solved by myself after I gain more experience, There is a question I have no idea how to implement is that, Is it possible to make a generator which could spawn various of vehicles from something like a family ? I mean I could make some floating models and make them to transit exemplars, Can a CAN-AM station generates them randomly from a group, It will save lot of time if it could be. I don't know how to do this, Thank you for any tips about this.

Sincerely,

-- Raymond

[CorinaMarie 29,884]

@Raymond7cn

That's excellent work you've done there.

 

12 hours ago, Raymond7cn said:

Is it possible to make a generator which could spawn various of vehicles from something like a family ? I mean I could make some floating models and make them to transit exemplars, Can a CAN-AM station generates them randomly from a group, It will save lot of time if it could be.

Yes, I believe so.

Let's start with what I'm guessing you have done under the hood. I'm presuming you are making your S3D have an IID of 0x11DAA0D0 to override the Canal Ferry Boat (or 0x11DAA110 to override the Canal Barge) as shown in this pic:

 

While I've never done this, it seems to me you can give your S3D a different randomly generated IID. The type and group numbers need to stay the same. Then in the NetworkAddonMod_CanAM_Ferry_Generator vCori 1.1.dat file are two exemplars which are similar to a building exemplar you are already familiar with, but these are for automata vehicles. Copy one of the exemplars to your own .dat file for tweaking.

This next pic shows what you will change in the copy you made. Generate a new random IID for the exemplar (circled) and put in the new IID for your S3D file (circled) in the Model Resource Key.

Then the items to change (with arrows pointing at them) are:

• Text to change in the Exemplar Name (whatever you call yours).
• The Item Icon you know how to do.
• The User Visible Name and Item Description Key.
  • (These last two are the pointers to LTEXT entries. You can include those in the new .dat file you'll make.

This will already work like a Family because that second entry in the OccupantGroups (the 0xCA1A1000) matches the group_id (line 34) of the automata_group.canalferry (line 31) in my Lua script. (If you are testing with the Canal Barge, then look at the other exemplar and the parts to change are the same items. The only difference is the OccupantsGroup will be 0xCA1A1050.

 

This ties in with any of the ploppable Canal Station lots. In their OccupantGroups they will have (among other numbers) the IID of the generator (line 96 or 104 in my Lua).

And that IID then finds the controllers as either "canalferry_generator" (line 98) or "canalfreight_generator" (line 106) which in turn then knows to see what group to use as defined staring in lines 31 or 40 of the Lua.

Going further, you could create your own lots to generate only your automata. We'd just need to code more Lua to put yours in their own group and create generators for them.

[Raymond7cn 6,776]

26 minutes ago, CorinaMarie said:

Going further, you could create your own lots to generate only your automata. We'd just need to code more Lua to put yours in their own group and create generators for them.

Thanks a million Cori, I will go to test that after make two more automata models. You are genius at code! 

Yours Sincerely,

-- Raymond

[CorinaMarie 29,884]

@Raymond7cn and @rsc204

While doing the research about automata families, I was re-reading my comments in the Lua and I noticed some things I'd explained completely wrong.

All of the Lua code itself is exactly the same as v1.1 so will still function correctly. These updates are in case y'all are reading the comments as a template for making other automata generators or if this will be included in the next NAM update.

I've tweaked the comments for lines 34, 36, 43, 45, 96 & 104. I also edited my prior post with:

On 12/23/2019 at 9:09 PM, CorinaMarie said:

Edit 2020.04.24: I noticed I had a couple mistakes in the comments portion of the Lua code. (The function is still fine.) I've fixed those and here are the latest versions. You only need the .dat file for the game. I've included the .lua too tho if you want to open it in your fav text editor.

• Cori's Canal Generator Rewrite v1.2.lua
• NetworkAddonMod_CanAM_Ferry_Generator vCori 1.2.dat

If you've downloaded the v1.1 .lua and/or .dat versions be sure to remove the prior .dat before using this updated one.

Thanks to @Cyclone Boom for updating the image version in that post.