Some.dat necessary for Mac but not for Windows

[tariely 4,499]

Yes, I know, this should be in the Mac section, but no, it shouldn't be only in the Mac section. Because a fellow player and I seem to have stumbled upon a rather sneaky difference which affect the game on both platforms.

We had a discussion way back then about merged.dat. which I used as a dependency for my lots and relots -- it just showed up in DataNode, so I listed it. Then I was advised not to use it and it was apparently right, because not using it didn't cause problems for me, whereas it caused some before.  At the time I had been playing on a Windowsed partition on my Mac. But before that, for many years, I had been playing on a Mac. Which is why I had merged.dat in the first place, because it helped solve problems with some lots while on a Mac.

And now, a fellow player, playing on a Mac, has problems (CTDs) when using some of my earlier lots without merged.dat.

Ergo, I though, maybe Mac players must have merged.dat for my lots/relots to be functional for them, Windows players need not to have it.

I just want to be absolutely sure before re-uploading the lot swith merged.dat and issuing a warning Mac/Windows, so could someone playing on a mac please download my Obelisk Place  and LLB modular version of it as well and plop it (merged.dat is not included anymore, I had taken it out of the deps after the discussion I am refering to above) and see how it goes ? And ditto with merged.dat ?

I am also posting this on the Mac forum...

[CorinaMarie 29,893]

5 minutes ago, tariely said:

I am also posting this on the Mac forum...

How about post in the Mac forum with a just the basic info and post a linky there to this thread here and request all the replies be made in this thread?

[tariely 4,499]

You Know Best (and especially how to do it. Could you, please... ? :-) 

[CorinaMarie 29,893]

5 minutes ago, tariely said:

Could you, please... ? :-) 

I did. Since you already have it posted I just added a sentence and a linky at the bottom of the Mac forum one.

[tariely 4,499]

Thank you !

[CorinaMarie 29,893]

I'm just following up on this as we didn't get any Mac peeps replying. Maybe @Synergy67 could lend a hand some time and post the results of the testing you've requested in your first post above.

[Propfam 2,305]

In my knowledge, there are some restrictions related to plugin loading in the Mac version (specifically Asypr-built). For instance, the game loads .so files instead of .dlls and can't load plugin when the folders and files count reaches respective certain numbers (maybe around 10,000 files). The workaround for the loading problem is to Datpack all plugins using JDatPacker. However, it's making updates (especially NAM) difficult to install. So, the method isn't recommended for the Windows version which doesn't have problems with plugin loading.

For the loading error in datpacked plugins, I'll leave it to the experts.

I hope this can help you. Thanks.

[twalsh102 1,601]

There has been some information about "merged.dat" that has been floating around since 2006, that I fear many people have misconstrued.  I am referring to the topic here https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=10.msg14#msg14.  Most people who have read this topic have taken this as meaning that any of the mentioned files should be removed from Plugins, as bldgprop_vol1 and bldgprop_vol02 have the same content, alleviating the need for these other files.  I suppose that the way the topic was written, some might miss the necessary nuances.  The key is the beginning of that first post, i.e. " Recently some new lot makers have started to post on the STEX. Some of them, however, seem to have a number of old outdated files in their plugins folder when making them. "

While the "content" used in these files is "the same" as the content in bldgprop_vol1 and bldgprop_vol02 (i.e. the props look the same), they have different IIDs, so the game sees them as being different.  Effectively, this means that while all the files mentioned in the topic might contain the "same" props as bldgprop_vol1 and bldgprop_vol02, they are really different as far as the game is concerned due to the differing IIDs.  Therefore, if anyone downloaded content where any of these files were used to create that content, these files would still be needed as dependencies.

So Barbyw's advice was for new lot makers to dump these unneeded files as bldgprop_vol1 and bldgprop_vol02 had the "same" props, and not for players to dump these files because they weren't needed any more.

BTW, it wouldn't surprise me if there were more than one merged.dat file floating around.

[CorinaMarie 29,893]

@twalsh102

It makes sense now. Seems like this is the same (only different) than the Plugin_RCI_Buildings_Prop_Modd.dat you explained here.

[twalsh102 1,601]

It's essentially the same issue i.e. multiple someones created files containing prop exemplars using Maxis building models at about the same time that Maxis created bldgprop_vol1 and bldgprop_vol02 (which do the same thing).  Most likely because Maxis and the creators of these other files were not aware of what the other was doing, the results were differing IIDs for the same thing.  It's obvious that even several years after Maxis released bldgprop_vol1 and bldgprop_vol02 (and maybe even still now), it wasn't / isn't universal knowledge that the content in these other files and the Maxis files are the same, but with differing IIDs.

[twalsh102 1,601]

On 6/14/2018 at 9:19 PM, tariely said:

We had a discussion way back then about merged.dat. which I used as a dependency for my lots and relots -- it just showed up in DataNode, so I listed it. Then I was advised not to use it and it was apparently right, because not using it didn't cause problems for me, whereas it caused some before.  At the time I had been playing on a Windowsed partition on my Mac. But before that, for many years, I had been playing on a Mac. Which is why I had merged.dat in the first place, because it helped solve problems with some lots while on a Mac.

I think I have an explanation for part of this.

In addition to all the buildings as props this file includes, it also includes a bunch of props that override some Maxis props.  Therefore, if you used any of these props on your lot, it would show as coming from merged.dat instead of SimCity_1.dat.  Not really sure why it should make any difference on Windows vs. Mac.  Has it been verified that the merged.dat file used by you and your friend are in fact the same file?

I was curious as to what the differences might be between the props included with merged.dat and the original Maxis props.  The only thing I could find was that the props in merged .dat had an additional family ID added if the Maxis props already had this property, or a Family property (along with a Family ID) was added if the property didn't already exist in the Maxis prop.  I really can't see how this might cause a CTD in the Aspyr version of SC4 and not in the Windows version (unless there is something weird in the coding of the Aspyr version).  I guess some experimentation needs to be done on the Mac side to figure this one out.

[tariely 4,499]

I ca't do that as I don't play on a Mac anymore -- which is why I first asked if someone would be so kind as to do some Mac testing... (I don't think my friend is up for it ; he loathes testing...)

[Synergy67 88]

Oh my, soooo many dependencies. So very many. OK, I downloaded everything needed from the Obelisk Place link and its dependencies, but your merged.dat link is dead now. How about you post any remaining necessary files in one zipped file somewhere I can download, and I will be happy to test any configuration which would be helpful. Please note I am running SC4 on Snow Leopard OS 10.6 on a MacPro 1,1 and the original cd version of Rush Hour, not the newer Universal Binary edition, if that makes any difference to you.

Also, there are three versions of the Obelisk Place park through the one download, so I need to know which of these you want tested.

Also also, is merged.dat a file of data -you- put together for your lots, or something the general community here uses. If so, I need to know what it is, what it does, and if it might conflict with anything else I have installed. Is it a replacement for the SimCity_1-5 files?

 

[tariely 4,499]

I have nothing to do with merged-dat.,just had it in my plugins as I transitioned from Mac to Windows. Found out it's not necessary with my set up on the win partitions. SO I guess it is something the community... used to use, at least. (I have the SimCity.dats ; but I think I have always had them. Sorry for the vagueness, I've been playing SC4 since it came out, and custom stuff since 2005) :-)

There are two uploads of Obelisk Place mine -- a standalone ; and a relot by Dreadnought with three pieces, a modular one, which I tinkered with following problems for some downloaders. I guess you'd have to test them all, sorry.

here's a link to my merged.dat (I was not aware there might be several versions of it !!!)

Thank you for wiling to do this !

[Synergy67 88]

I see the merged.dat is pretty tiny, and you say it is or was a dependency for your lots. I'll just remove all my other added plugins and try your Obelisk lots with and without the merged.dat. But not tonight. Tomorrow I should be able. I'll report back here with the results.

 

[CorinaMarie 29,893]

1 minute ago, Synergy67 said:

I see the merged.dat is pretty tiny, and you say it is or was a dependency for your lots.

I peeked inside it and it's a bunch of props exemplars.

[Synergy67 88]

I have tested these. They seem to be appearing and working fine along with the seasonal trees with one small exception I will show. I get identical results for all with or without merged.dat included. This is a nice plaza @tariely! Nicely done. I'm going to start using it. I still need to dig up some nice parks and plazas again. (I just started playing again after a five year gap).

I noticed that Merged.dat is included inside each of the TL-Obelisk Place 4x5 and TL-Obelisk Place 4x5 1.01 folders. If your other friend used both of these or included an external merged.dat separately, it means merged.dat would be duplicated. I doubt that would cause any problem though.

First, below are the TL-Obelisk Place 3 + LLB-Tariel Obelisk Plaza Modular 2  (I assembled the modular one on the right from the four pieces in your modular set). It all looks good and works. I only saw one animated person, the rest are static. The fountains work and the trees change seasons.

 

Next, below, is the TL-Obelisk Place 4x5 version. It's hilarious that it caught fire as soon as the trees grew! Ha ha. Everything also looks and works fine with it, best I can see.

 

Lastly, below, is the TL-Obelisk Place 4x5 1.01 version. Everything about it was also fine except for this one brown box in the very corner. Comparing it to the previous lots, it looks like it is being caused by the little group of people that are supposed to appear in that corner? Unless this version has a change there. I don't know. Maybe you can figure that part out. If I had to guess, I'm thinking it might be Tamorr_Family_Props_V210. 

, 

 

 

 

[tariely 4,499]

Thank you for your meticulous testing ! Im glad you like the Obelisk lots. (and if you want parks & plazas, you've come to the right place, ahem, check my lots, she says, shamelessly pushing her own stuff ; also KOSC had uploaded some really spectacular BIG ones.)

A duplication of any sort cannot be good ? I'll tell my friend to check his merged.dats. As for the brown box, or flag in the 1.01 Obelisk Place version, it is what prompted me to upload another version ; I should delete that one !!! How do I go about that ?

Again, thanks !

[CorinaMarie 29,893]

3 hours ago, tariely said:

shamelessly pushing her own stuff

To push even harder you could add a linky.

 

3 hours ago, tariely said:

A duplication of any sort cannot be good ?

Afaik, a duplicate just overrides itself and doesn't do any harm other than making the load time a wee bit longer. So, it is recommended to not have duplicates.

 

3 hours ago, tariely said:

I should delete that one !!! How do I go about that ?

The easiest way would be to post a direct linky to it and one of us staff can do it for you. Or you could check if there is a Hide option available. (I have all the buttons so I tend to forget what options you have.)