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[gutterclub 2,729]

Thanks guys, will try 4 meters and try and live with the result

[Jasoncw 11,840]

opps I read past the ambient occlusion part.

Yeah 4 meters is a good amount imo.

The way ambient occlusion works, is from the point on the surface, it sends out a number of rays/samples (the number you set), out to the distance you set. If the sample hits an object that sample counts as being occluded. And then based on what percentage of samples, it shades the surface with the color you set.

The effect is that it enhances contact shadows and shadows in crevices and interior corners. It makes things look a million times better.

[Jasoncw 11,840]

I've made this animated .gif showing the difference.

The material is an Arch & Design material, with a Reflectivity of 0.2, a Glossiness of 0.2, 8 Glossiness Samples, and a color of 50% grey.

In one of them, Ambient Occlusion has been turned on, with a Max Distance of 4.0 meters, and 16 samples. The other it's off.

On the lower roof, you can see how all of the areas where the walls meet the roof have become much more defined. The same goes for all of the features on the shadow side of the building, on the right side, as well as the clock area.

For many rendering purposes, the ambient occlusion effect is too unnatural, and instead of only improving shadows, it often gives an exaggerated effect or makes things look dirty. But SC4 is a stylized video game that the heavy ambient occlusion look works well with. But there's also the "Use Color From Other Materials (Exact AO)" checkbox, which will make more natural looking ambient occlusion shadows. But leaving ambient occlusion off altogether isn't really an option. Mental Ray (the renderer we use) is old and not very good and no matter how high you increase the rendering settings, you're never going to get good shape definition in shadow. It needs it or else it's going to be a splotchy mess. So the first step of any material (except for glass, which shouldn't have contact shadows because it's transparent) is turning on ambient occlusion.

[Barroco Hispano 26,703]

I have a dumb question, do the smoothing groups of the LOD affect the way the BAT looks in the game?

[Jasoncw 11,840]

On 4/27/2020 at 5:51 PM, Goldman Sachs said:

I have a dumb question, do the smoothing groups of the LOD affect the way the BAT looks in the game?

I'm pretty sure they don't (or else most BATs would be messed up). But I always clear them anyway.

[Jeffrey500 567]

Hi there. While trying to apply textures to my building i get this screen. What am i doing wrong here?

 

[rsc204 21,808]

On 03/05/2020 at 1:00 AM, Jasoncw said:

I'm pretty sure they don't (or else most BATs would be messed up). But I always clear them anyway.

You shouldn't be using them for LODs though, simply because using more complex geometry eats system resources. Not a huge problem for today's computers to handle, but still terribly inefficient to use it for no actual advantage. The LODs simply define the space to map a models textures, for that it just needs to be the size of the extremities of your model. Any vertexes between those points serve no function.

44 minutes ago, Jeffrey500 said:

Hi there. While trying to apply textures to my building i get this screen. What am i doing wrong here?

I don't think you are doing anything wrong, "Bitmap" here just means a texture, it doesn't have to be a .BMP. When you select that option, a window appears where can select the actual texture to use. A single material can be applied to multiple parts of your model, rather than having to have one material for every time you use it.

[Jeffrey500 567]

Alright, i select that texture, and from there i couldn't use it. The only textures i can make from there are custom ones with the color wheel. So i'm afraid i'm missing some steps or windows has prohibited me that step. 

[Jasoncw 11,840]

@Jeffrey500 With your object selected, pressing the Apply button should apply that material to the object.

Are you saying that pressing the Apply buttons brings up the Material Editor window?

@rsc204 Smoothing groups aren't geometry and each polygon has the smoothing group property whether or not any are set to it. I just don't know what the game does with the smoothing groups although it doesn't seem to matter because if it mattered then most BATs would have issues.

[rsc204 21,808]

11 minutes ago, Jasoncw said:

Smoothing groups aren't geometry and each polygon has the smoothing group property whether or not any are set to it. I just don't know what the game does with the smoothing groups although it doesn't seem to matter because if it mattered then most BATs would have issues.

I'm probably mixing it up with something else then, but hopefully I can at least get one of two right here...

11 minutes ago, Jasoncw said:

@Jeffrey500With your object selected, pressing the Apply button should apply that material to the object.

Are you saying that pressing the Apply buttons brings up the Material Editor window?

I think what's going wrong is that instead of using the little square next to the colour picker rectangle, the OP is pressing the latter. Hence no option is appearing to add an actual texture, only a solid colour. I would have responded sooner, but I'm 5m away from a small video showing this (for absolute clarity) finishes uploading to YouTube .

Edit: And now it's ready, I hope this helps to clarify where you are going wrong @Jeffrey500.

[Jeffrey500 567]

Many thanks for everyone helping me out. It works now. 

[Raymond7cn 6,772]

Dear Specialists,

I have a question about BAT4MAX, I want to figure out what happens when i click DAY or Maxis Nite in Set Rig For, As far as i know, for instance, I have a original start up of 3ds max, then i click DAY button, after that i observe one camera and two lights are added, the lights include one sky light and one mental ray sun light, Besides, the render is changed to mental ray. so is there any changes of setting else? what about Maxis Nite? I'm not sure about that, i just remember that there are two default lights (maybe scan line)in the scene, so Are they replaced with any light add by manual? Thank you very much!

Sincerely,

-- Raymond

-----

Ah, I have checked out the BAT4MAX thread, where says:

Set your scene

Easiest and quickest way to do so is by running LetTherBeLight (click on Day button). This will set units, render, anti-alias, and final gather, gamma and color correction to the values optimal for your particular version of 3dsMax needed for both export and preview. I would also recommend clicking on Sky button (for 3ds Max 2008 and newer users). Strictly speaking this is "required" only when your model has some reflective elements pointing at sky.

So may i ask that what's the color correction? Does simfox miss the camera and lights i mentioned, or they're added by other button? Thank you!

[Jasoncw 11,840]

If you go to C:\Program Files\Autodesk\3ds Max Design 2015\gamepacks\BAT\scripts there are some files that you can open in notepad.

I think by color correction, he means exposure control, which includes things like white balance, contrast, brightness, and things like that.

[Cyclone Boom 16,875]

@Raymond7cn

Complementing what Jason said above, I noticed just earlier he posted additional details about a BAT4Max rendering fix in case it might be useful for you also.

Inside the following topic:

 

[Raymond7cn 6,772]

Dear Jason and other experts, @Jasoncw 

I have a question about camera of BAT4MAX, as you know i'm just a newbie who learnt modeling months, i used to follow the normal process of rendering, however i ran into issues when i was modeling a futurist building with custom environment map (not hdri map).

You can tell from the shots above, when i rendered it with Perspective view, it's ok, whereas when i rendered it with the Z5 camera, some details were lost.

Then i checked the TB2_CameraLightRig file:

Frankly, i never customized camera before, so i don't know if i could and how to tweak the camera setting when rendering. I just presume that it's because of some settings of camera (such as depth of field or samples), Or other settings like anti-aliasing which i saw them when rendering with max's Perspective view.

BTW, The material of teapot i use is mental ray's arch&design = chrome, I didn't change other parameters except Ambient occlusion samples = 16 and max distance = 10m and round corners = 0.1m. There are skylight and mr sunlight in the scene, and Global lighting is 1.0, I didn't adjust the GI parameters.

Thank you and appreciate for any tips.

Sincerely,

-- Raymond

[Jasoncw 11,840]

In the Arch & Design material you can effectively replace the background that's being reflected without changing the environment. I would avoid changing the environment because the environment also affects lighting. Doing it this way in the material lets you replace the reflections without affecting lighting.

I recently suggested the same to IDS2 who also has a reflective surface, and I'm doing this on some BATs that I'm working on right now which have water which is reflecting the sky.

In the "Advanced Rendering Options" rollout of the glass material, there's an area for reflections. The Max Distance option makes it so that nothing from outside of that range will be reflected. So if you made that 5 meters, the glass would reflect the facade parts right next to it, but it wouldn't reflect the ground plane, because it's further than 5 meters away. If you put a really big number in, then all of your scene will still be reflected, but you'll effectively replace the default sky with that texture.

And then you can also put a texture in there. At the very top of the bitmap, there's a selection for either "Texture" or "Environ" and you want to choose environ, and then you can choose a mapping type. So if you download a spherical sky map you can put it in there, and choose environ and spherical, and the result should be that your upwards facing reflections reflect your sky texture.

It's possible that this will also solve your detail problem.

But my guess is that the problem is because of the orthographic projection itself. There are a lot of features which don't work with orthographic projection.

I hope there is a solution.

[Raymond7cn 6,772]

16 minutes ago, Jasoncw said:

In the Arch & Design material you can effectively replace the background that's being reflected without changing the environment. I would avoid changing the environment because the environment also affects lighting. Doing it this way in the material lets you replace the reflections without affecting lighting.

I recently suggested the same to IDS2 who also has a reflective surface, and I'm doing this on some BATs that I'm working on right now which have water which is reflecting the sky.

In the "Advanced Rendering Options" rollout of the glass material, there's an area for reflections. The Max Distance option makes it so that nothing from outside of that range will be reflected. So if you made that 5 meters, the glass would reflect the facade parts right next to it, but it wouldn't reflect the ground plane, because it's further than 5 meters away. If you put a really big number in, then all of your scene will still be reflected, but you'll effectively replace the default sky with that texture.

And then you can also put a texture in there. At the very top of the bitmap, there's a selection for either "Texture" or "Environ" and you want to choose environ, and then you can choose a mapping type. So if you download a spherical sky map you can put it in there, and choose environ and spherical, and the result should be that your upwards facing reflections reflect your sky texture.

It's possible that this will also solve your detail problem.

But my guess is that the problem is because of the orthographic projection itself. There are a lot of features which don't work with orthographic projection.

I hope there is a solution.

Thank you so much Jason, I will try it tomorrow and report the result here, I don't know if it could solve the details issue, but i'm sure you already help me with the color issue, i mean lighting, Yes you are right there, Just as you mentioned, the environment map also affects lighting. i have been through this headache issue these days, I never thought of it could be dealed with in this way, Thank you!!

Yours,

-- Raymond

[Barroco Hispano 26,703]

This is what I get 

[Jasoncw 11,840]

Since you're using an HDR I think it just needs to be brighter. If you look closely you can see that it is actually being reflected, but very dimly. You can make it brighter when you load the HDR but it's easier to do it by making the "Output Amount" higher down in the standard bitmap settings. When I made mine 30 it seemed to be a good brightness when I render it, even though in the material editor it looks way too bright.

[Raymond7cn 6,772]

Dear Jason, @Jasoncw

I tried to add environment map to Advanced Rendering Options, then i got a result same as @Barroco Hispano.

As you said, there was dim reflection on the teapot, Anyway, after some attempts i gave up this way tentatively and went back to the TB2_CameraLightRig.max, i opened it and tried to tweak parameters to see what happened. i found that after i canceled the selection of 'orthographic projection', it changed:

Actually, it just changed when i rendered with Z5 camera, but still the same as before when i press on preview:

Then i saved TB2_CameraLightRig(canceled the orthographic projection), i found all files inflected by it, 

        Before

Perspective render = clear

Z5 render = blur

Z5 Preview = blur

         After

Perspective render = clear

Z5 render = clear

Z5 Preview = blur

Those are all my tests today, I still need to learn more about this.

This is my project in process.

-----

Update:

I made some tests, I finally modified the script SFBatPreview_func.ms,

RenderCam.OrthoProjection = true ( to false)

Then i got a clear reflection on Preview rendering. but apparently, when i wanted to make a test exporting, I got a errorcode 6 during 3ds max rendering, I guessed that there must be OrthoProjection = true in the script of bat for gmax, I haven't tested if i could modify that script, however i thought it will be abnormal in game. Anyway, i would delve into there tomorrow to see what happens.

Along with digging, I found out this post:

https://github.com/mrdoob/three.js/issues/17662

Because of my speed of English reading, I haven't looked that entirely, but it seemed people were talking about issues similar as mine (perspective camera vs orthographic camera).

If still no luck, I would think about if i could render the model to texture and then render it again. Thank you!

Sincerely,

-- Raymond

[Jeffrey500 567]

Hi there, while modelling my railway station i'm coming across two problems. 

My BAT stalls while rendering without lighting
Two, how many meters should i take for the platforms between two active 2-track railway lines, and what about 1-track? 

[Jasoncw 11,840]

@Raymond7cn Try it again except increase "Output Amount" of the Bitmap from 1.0, to something like 30. Or make it higher until it becomes visible. I've done this myself on 3ds Max 2015, and the reflections are clear.

Changing it from orthographic to perspective isn't going to work, because SC4 is in orthographic projection. It must be orthographic projection.

[Raymond7cn 6,772]

3 hours ago, Jasoncw said:

@Raymond7cn Try it again except increase "Output Amount" of the Bitmap from 1.0, to something like 30. Or make it higher until it becomes visible. I've done this myself on 3ds Max 2015, and the reflections are clear.

Changing it from orthographic to perspective isn't going to work, because SC4 is in orthographic projection. It must be orthographic projection.

You are my savior Dear Jason, It works, 

Sorry that i didn't see your tips before, my head was a mess then, I still wonder how did you know that i should set the "Output Amount" to 30? it's amazing if you just deduced it by my pics.

May i ask a further question, I'm confused with the "Max Distance" of "Ambient Occlusion", How to set an appropriate value with this? Thank you.

I have to start over again on texturing, since as you mentioned, those colors wouldn't be nice after i deactivate the environment map, even though, I'm still extremely happy, Thanks a million Jason! @Jasoncw!

Yours,

-- Raymond

[Barroco Hispano 26,703]

@Raymond7cnI always use these values:

For the leaves of the trees, sims and Chrome headligths I use 0.1m. Btw, If you use normal maps I recommend you never use the "round corners" option .

[Raymond7cn 6,772]

1 hour ago, Barroco Hispano said:

Btw, If you use normal maps I recommend you never use the "round corners" option .

Thank you @Barroco Hispano, You are right, i learnt it from YouTube, but this effect won't be much useful in SC4, Thank you for your kind tips, it does save much time on rendering.

Sincerely,

-- Raymond

[Jasoncw 11,840]

This is ambient occlusion.

Samples are taken out from a point, out to a distance, and if the sample hits another surface then that sample is counted as being occluded. The point on the surface is shaded according to how many samples are occluded.

The number of arrows in the diagram is the number of "samples", and the distance that they go is the "distance" in the settings. As you can see in the diagram though, if the distance was very small, none of the samples would hit anything, and the point would not be shaded.

[Girafe 1,729]

@Jasoncw

Is there a way to increase quality of small export for farest zooms. I am often getting distorted models while exporting with BAT  

[Barroco Hispano 26,703]

@Girafe   What I do is manually insert the zoom 5 .bmp without compression with pngtofshbatch (I wish there was a way to modify the FSHwrite.exe so I don't have to do it manually).

As you can see, it looks just as it does in 3dsmax:

By the way, I use 64x64 samples per pixel to preserve even more details (I only use these samples per pixel for vehicles, sims and small props).

[thecitiescenter 3,045]

On 1/27/2018 at 3:09 PM, Jasoncw said:

 

 

STRANGE LINES/SHADOWS/SHADING (Gmax only)

Those lines are the result of a faulty lighting rig. You'll need to download the fixed lighting rig. (find link to fixed rig).

Hi @Jasoncw could you explain this one a bit further?  I have this issue with a model, but Im not completely sure what you mean by downloading the fixed lighting rig or “find link to fixed rig”?  Thanks in advance!

[Jasoncw 11,840]

@Girafe Yeah unfortunately that's a limitation of the image format and not of the render. What Barroco did has great looking results though.

@Barroco Hispano For sampling quality you don't really want to have both at 64 samples. The way it works, is it will keep on taking samples until the values in spatial contrast/noise threshold are reached. And when rendering it either reaches the desired contrast/noise threshold and stops sampling, or it hits the max samples and stops sampling. So in order to get higher quality you want to both decrease the contrast/noise threshold (down to 0.001 for example), and increase the max samples. That way it both wants to do better quality and also has the samples to do it. And then doing it this way, if you leave the minimum samples at a lower number, then in simple areas that are already at the desired quality, it won't waste time taking tons and tons of samples.

@thecitiescenter "find link to fixed rig" is a note to myself to find the link to the file and add it in lol. Unfortunately, searching the STEX for "rig" right now I can't find it. The lighting rig is the file which contains the lights that are used to light your scene. The lighting rig is a separate scene which is referenced externally when you're BATing, but it's possible to edit or replace this file. So with gmax anything where you need to change the lights means changing the lighting rig scene.

If anybody knows where the fixed lighting rig is for gmax, or has it themselves, let me know!