Prepping my First Region

[That Retro Guy 321]

OK.  Thanks!

One thing that I never understood about the farms in this game . . . Aren't farms technically Residential as well as Agricultural?  Every farm that I've seen in RL had a family living on it.

Will the Sims complain about not be able to find jobs?

[CorinaMarie 29,869]

Maxis defines farms as Industrial Resource aka IR and they don't have any residential properties in game. In the real world where I live there is almost always a residential home as part of the farm. Most of this country was developed by families who had their own house and farm. For the game you just have to simulate that look as best you can by having houses grow near the farms.

Or...

Spoiler

 

[Duco 546]

8 minutes ago, That Retro Guy said:

Every farm that I've seen in RL had a family living on it.

I have worked on a farm, but didn't live there....

[CorinaMarie 29,869]

2 minutes ago, Duco said:

I have worked on a farm, but didn't live there....

And I've lived on a farm, but didn't work there. (Tho I did on other farms when I got older.)

[Duco 546]

4 minutes ago, CorinaMarie said:

And I've lived on a farm

That's why you have a  Magnus Ferguson!

[That Retro Guy 321]

So is there an optimal size for a farm?  I like the lot that you made.  It looks very realistic.  I was thinking of using Wind power.  Is this feasible or a disaster waiting to happen? And how big should the Residential zone be near the farms?

[CorinaMarie 29,869]

When I have wide open terrain I go with my farms at 18 x 18 cells. That's the default size before the game wants to auto add streets. For the residential you can just zone some nearby and let them grow. If there isn't enough jobs then some won't sprout houses (unless you play on Cheetah speed in which case things will grow that really shouldn't cause they all see the demand and it doesn't get updated soon enough for the other zones to know they aren't needed yet).

Basically, I use the Jobs and Population graph as my guide. Watch that the green residential lines don't have lots of up and down spikes and when viewing the residential homes that none of them have the No Job Zots over them. If you get those zots you need to grow more farms or de-zone those homes to regain a balance.

[Cassalett 16]

Wind-powering a town is possible, but keep in mind that they have a low capacity. If you have a real mountain (not a ploppable) you should try building wind centrals on top of them, as it increases their power. Aside from your questions, you should try the Colossus Addon Mod, as it can control your buildings depending on your zone dense. That way big $$$ houses won't grow, just pretty small houses.

[CorinaMarie 29,869]

3 minutes ago, Cassalett IV said:

Colossus Addon Mod

That is a very popular mod, but it's got quite a bit of a learning curve to it.

Another option is my Cori's_No_Kickout_Lower_Wealth_CAMpatible.dat described here.

[That Retro Guy 321]

I figured that I would put a Windmill between two farm lots and have trees behind it to make a 'boundary'.

@CorinaMarie, is it possible to dl that cool-looking farm with the house on it?  I just can't get over how cool that thing looks.

[CorinaMarie 29,869]

21 minutes ago, That Retro Guy said:

@CorinaMarie, is it possible to dl that cool-looking farm with the house on it?  I just can't get over how cool that thing looks.

Well, sure if you want it you welcome to have it. (I didn't upload it since I've used a medium wealth house as a low wealth lot.) You'll need the bldgprop_vol1.dat and bldgprop_vol2.dat or Maxis Prop Names and Query Fix by T Wrecks as dependencies. As a separate download are the fences I plopped around it: Farm Fences. They are not a dependency, but they look good.

Also, in order to get it to grow you need to use the Ctrl+Zoning to create a 4x4 low density residential lot. No water is required. You can dezone that size out of an already grown farm so it can blend in.

R$1_4x4_Cori's Farm House.SC4Lot

[CorinaMarie 29,869]

58 minutes ago, CorinaMarie said:

Also, in order to get it to grow you need to use the Ctrl+Zoning to create a 4x4 low density residential lot. No water is required. You can dezone that size out of an already grown farm so it can blend in.

Here are the steps in pictures:

[Duco 546]

8 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

8 hours ago, Cassalett IV said:

Colossus Addon Mod

That is a very popular mod, but it's got quite a bit of a learning curve to it.

Another option is my Cori's_No_Kickout_Lower_Wealth_CAMpatible.dat described here.

Because I use IRM, I never used CAM (yes I know, there is a Cam version of the IRM) so I can't speak about the mod.

What I do know: the mod of @CorinaMarie' delivers nice work. 

[That Retro Guy 321]

Is it possible for me to quote something from a different thread?  And if so, how? 

[Cyclone Boom 17,031]

1 hour ago, That Retro Guy said:

Is it possible for me to quote something from a different thread?  And if so, how? 

Yes, this is very possible.

To quote from another thread, first select the text using the    option, or for the entire post just click the regular Quote link at the bottom.

Then it'll be added into the editor just as if you'd be replying to there. However from this point, it needs copying over to the editor in the thread you wish to reply inside. So click the quote and use Ctrl+C to copy and then Ctrl+V to paste it here or wherever. For more than one quote this can be simplified by selecting everything (Ctrl+A) before copying. Alternatively it's possible to use the right click context menu and use the options there if preferring them over keyboard commands. Add spacing as needed and it should all be familiar from that point if looking to accompanying text above or below.

As a proof of concept from your "So many mods" thread from last year / early this year:

On 25/12/2017 at 9:52 PM, That Retro Guy said:

When I click on a farm in Retroville, the flying pig is nowhere to be seen.

(See, I deliberately picked the most amusing quote I could find in that thread when taken out of context. )

The useful thing is the full functionality of quotes (formatting and notifications) are preserved when transferring them as such. Once posted, the little arrow reference link (on the top right) will work too for anyone who wishes to jump back and revisit the original source location. One thing for quotes longer than 8 lines is additional parts are hidden with an "Expand" option to reveal them in full. If you'd like any to be kept expanded, I can fix that up using special admin editing mode in the HTML code.

[MasterHallowed1 6]

what does ColossusAddonMod give?

[CorinaMarie 29,869]

2 hours ago, MasterHallowed1 said:

what does ColossusAddonMod give?

The best, short description I found is this:

On 12/23/2014 at 7:56 PM, Gatycon said:

Basically it changes the dynamics of the growth of different building sizes in a city. Like at what population certain size buildings will grow (Growth stages), and how much demand you can have.

[Cyclone Boom 17,031]

9 hours ago, MasterHallowed1 said:

what does ColossusAddonMod give?

For a further read you may find the following article from @Tarkus helpful, which explains what the CAM is and isn't:

The Colossus Addon Mod – Separating Fact From Fiction

Quoting the 2nd paragraph:

Quote

To put it in short and simple form, the CAM is a mod that alters the game's Residential-Commercial-Industrial (RCI) simulation, changing when and how growable buildings grow, and adjusting the mechanics of population and job balance.  That's all it does.  It includes altered properties for some Maxis lots, to mesh them with the new settings, meaning you can use the CAM right out of the box, without downloading anything else.  In other words, zero dependencies.  None.  Zilch.

 

[That Retro Guy 321]

So I'm running a Test Region and made lots of small hills, zoned 4 10x10 farms and what happens when I try to build a road?

'Grade not suitable for development'

  AAARRRGGGHHH! 

I know that I just have to monkey around with the road tool to smooth out the grade, but still . . .  

[CorinaMarie 29,869]

@That Retro Guy I feel your pain.

I played pure vanilla for over a year then finally installed a slope mod after seeing it suggested everywhere. I liked it in some places, but got so frustrated in others that I removed it and played another 6 months without. In the end, however, I just couldn't be satisfied with Maxis's pointy spikes in my streets and roads and reinstalled the slope mod. After lots of fighting with it at times I finally got an intuitive feel for what would work and what wouldn't. I've been using it ever since.

[That Retro Guy 321]

So I build a farm, windmill, roads, Low Residential (part of which, for some reason, becomes Med Wealth Residential), and a teensy bit of Low Commercial.

When I click on the farm, it says:  Current jobs 29/32.  I have learned that doesn't mean that there are still 3 jobs available on the farm but rather that out of 32 potential jobs on the farm, only 29 are available.  Is there someway to make those missing 3 jobs available?  Trees, maybe?

[Cyclone Boom 17,031]

29 minutes ago, That Retro Guy said:

Is there someway to make those missing 3 jobs available?

I believe this is related to the desirability of the area for whether the potential occupancy is filled to its maximum extent. It might be worth checking the game's Data Views to check whether there's anything which could be making the location more undesirable for the development.

For farms, the factors they're looking for include:

• Built on flat land
• Low nearby traffic volume
• Short freight trip length
• Low air pollution
• Low garbage
• Low crime

There may also be a random variations playing a part here. I've noticed some industrial and commercial buildings located in a close vicinity to each other, with some of the jobs being completely available, and then others across the road being slightly reduced as you've found. Given you're at over 90% there for 29/32, it could be that still equates to what's considered a healthy amount, and as such is no major cause for concern. It might be difficult to achieve full uniform occupancy for each and every one, with the same also applying to industrial and commercial outlets of medium and high wealth.

[Duco 546]

21 minutes ago, That Retro Guy said:

Low Residential (part of which, for some reason, becomes Med Wealth Residential)

The part that is become mid wealth, is still low residential.  There is a difference between the sort of houses ( low - high, tiny house/ flat) and the income/ wealth.

So you can have a single low house that is high wealth or a flat that is low wealth.  

[jeffryfisher 2,176]

18 hours ago, That Retro Guy said:

Low Residential (part of which, for some reason, becomes Med Wealth Residential)

Your "Low" is for density, which does not limit wealth. In fact, wealthy people often like big properties, so their density can be very low.

[That Retro Guy 321]

So, here's what I'm thinking (and we all know how dangerous that can be!)     about my communities:

 

Each community will have 2 farms across the street from each other with a Bus Stop close by.  There will be a Freight Station at the end of the road for Short Freight trips time, and enough Low Density Residential to cover the jobs, and a teensy bit of Low Density Commercial.  Each community will have Wind Power and a Water Tower.  I know that Water isn't essential for a Low Density community, but It feels weird not to give the Sims Water.  The communities will be linked together with a road, a bus line and a Freight Line ( I know in the pic it goes off-map but it won't once I start), and I will rotate the zone 90 degrees so that the map doesn't look like a grid.  The rest of the map will be covered with trees so each community looks to be secluded.

Any thoughts or suggestions?  (Oh, and I have decided to not have a river running through Limerick and Kilarney.  It's just too complicated to make a river.)

 

[Cyclone Boom 17,031]

2 hours ago, That Retro Guy said:

Any thoughts or suggestions?

From both an aesthetics and functional standpoint, I think it looks very nice indeed for a repeatable base layout.

I see you've got a custom farm field which fits well. I also like how you've neatly planted a narrow border of trees surrounding both of them, helping to visually divide land use from the houses. The bus stop is centrally located there for the farms, and having a scattering of shops will serve to satisfy the R$$ homes (for those that are medium wealth). Nice use of curved street pieces on all 4 corners, which I presume are the ones from the NAM.

A few subtle suggestions:

• Placing extra bus stops might be a good idea in each of the corners, then to provide commuters with another means of transport. When creating additional settlements in the same tile, this will encourage Sims to take the trip over a longer distance for your bus route.
   
• Maybe not initially, but in time if traffic congestion becomes an issue, it could be worth upgrading either the central horizontal street or the one connecting the freight station to a road. Keeping an eye on the route queries and Traffic Data View will give an indication of the current usage extent.
   
• Where it's located, the water tower should be able to withstand water pollution from the farms. Let's say there are water filters which can prevent it entering the supply. However one consideration is if it reaches beyond a tolerable threshold, the tower will be shut down by the environmental agency. Anywhere nearby is also likely to be in the radius of the affected area. So should that occur, it'd be worth relocating it as far away from the water pollution epicentre according to the Data View. For why this happens with Maxis farms, my theory is they use some nasty pesticide or something which gets absorbed into the ground (especially those orchards).
   
• If ever short of a jobs, over by the freight station might be a good place to zone some medium density industrial. A few warehouse type buildings such as Farley's Foundry could fit in there, and they'd also conveniently have first-hand access to the freight train station for exports. Low wealth residentials can cope with high levels of air pollution, so they won't mind the odd dirty industrial structure across the street.
   
• For each settlement, you may wish to have the water supplies separate so then each tower provides for its own area. The same also for the power by not having them connected via pylons, zones, or plopped buildings. The idea being to micro-manage and adjust supply based on demand.

 

I'm sure others may have some other tips on how you could progress from here. From what I can tell you've created an effective layout which can be replicated as needed throughout a tile. Then if desired, scaled up slightly to integrate with Civic services such as health and education.

The key thing with RCI development is balance. By keeping a manageable structure it's easier to fine-tune the jobs to population ratio.

[Duco 546]

6 hours ago, That Retro Guy said:

It's just too complicated to make a river.

Grab a tool, push the mouse button, wait for water and drag a line. Maybe making a river isn't that complicated, but the environment next to it is. At least, that was/ is my struggle. 

A thing I did, (and it fit nicely in rural area's) is drag a stream with this tool. When I find something difficult, I try to make it smaller to see if that will work. So when I think my streams are nice I drag a small river and after that a bigger one. But I don't know if you use mods, or want to use them? Whatever, the idea is to make things small, so maybe try  just a small river from south to east, or west to north. Try something in a corner. You can't fail. That is if you want to have a river. If you don't want it anyway, well, then you're done. 

[CorinaMarie 29,869]

7 hours ago, That Retro Guy said:

I know that Water isn't essential for a Low Density community, but It feels weird not to give the Sims Water.

They way I view it is the Water Data View only represents the public water supply. In other words that provided to them by the city/town/municipality which would also be charging a usage fee. Those outside of the range of these (in the real world) would have a private well for their water so even tho they won't show up on the water data view, I pretend that's how they get their own dihydrogen monoxide.

Sample pic from long ago:

Spoiler

 

One thing to keep in mind about having separate water supplies for individual areas is that the Water Graph will become useless. It'll show total production vs total usage, however, any particular watered town could reach 100% usage and have troubles while the graph shows overall there is enough. This means you'd have to keep and eye on them by directly querying the water supply for each of them.

[That Retro Guy 321]

10 hours ago, Cyclone Boom said:

Placing extra bus stops might be a good idea in each of the corners, then to provide commuters with another means of transport.

Yup, that's the plan.

 

10 hours ago, Cyclone Boom said:

if traffic congestion becomes an issue, it could be worth upgrading either the central horizontal street or the one connecting the freight station to a road. Keeping an eye on the route queries and Traffic Data View will give an indication of the current usage extent.

Will do.

 

10 hours ago, Cyclone Boom said:

Where it's located, the water tower should be able to withstand water pollution from the farms.

I had forgotten that farms produce water pollution.  I'll have to rethink the area a little bit.  Perhaps by moving the Water Tower to the other end of the central road from the Freight Station will be far enough away.

 

10 hours ago, Cyclone Boom said:

If ever short of a jobs, over by the freight station might be a good place to zone some medium density industrial.

Will do.

 

10 hours ago, Cyclone Boom said:

For each settlement, you may wish to have the water supplies separate so then each tower provides for its own area.

Yup, that's the plan.  I can then micro-manage each Windmill so it's only producing as much power as needed (plus a little extra) thus saving money.  I'm not sure if you can do this with a Water Tower or not, but if you can, then I will do so.

 

10 hours ago, Cyclone Boom said:

From what I can tell you've created an effective layout which can be replicated as needed throughout a tile. Then if desired, scaled up slightly to integrate with Civic services such as health and education.

Having Health services (not to mention Fire and Police) is on the to-do list, but I'm wondering about Education.  Since this is a farming community, would I want my Sims to become highly educated?  If I did that, wouldn't they demand more High Tech jobs?  Or with a higher education, would they just run the farms more efficiently?

 

7 hours ago, Duco said:

A thing I did, (and it fit nicely in rural area's) is drag a stream with this tool. When I find something difficult, I try to make it smaller to see if that will work. So when I think my streams are nice I drag a small river and after that a bigger one.

I'll look into it.  Thanks!

 

5 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

Those outside of the range of these (in the real world) would have a private well for their water so even tho they won't show up on the water data view, I pretend that's how they get their own dihydrogen monoxide.

'dihydrogen monoxide'?   Sounds like someone went to college.    Is that the fancy-schmancy way of saying 'water'? 

 

5 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

One thing to keep in mind about having separate water supplies for individual areas is that the Water Graph will become useless. It'll show total production vs total usage, however, any particular watered town could reach 100% usage and have troubles while the graph shows overall there is enough. This means you'd have to keep and eye on them by directly querying the water supply for each of them.

Sounds like a plan to me.

 

How far away from the Residential does the Rail have to be so that the Traffic Noise doesn't bother the Sims?

If I have too much Residential in any one community, I'll bulldoze some houses and put in some parks and things.

  Edited August 15, 2018 by That Retro Guy  
Bad grammar

[Cyclone Boom 17,031]

2 hours ago, That Retro Guy said:

I had forgotten that farms produce water pollution.  I'll have to rethink the area a little bit.  Perhaps by moving the Water Tower to the other end of the central road from the Freight Station will be far enough away.

That might do the trick. Something which you could use to your advantage is that power will extend for 5 cells from an area (or building) with a supply. This means the water tower could be placed even further away and still function without needing an extension to the connection.

I've run a quick test by building a little village like so:

(Grid turned on pressing the G key to show the cells.)

 

After growing an orchard (which are higher polluting than regular farm fields), I checked the water pollution Data View:

 

And the data view chart itself (zooming in for a clearer perspective):

 

The green square represents the location of the water tower. Even at the epicentre it's only rated as a light yellow shade, which according to an advanced query by holding Ctrl+Shift+Alt and clicking with the Extra Cheats DLL installed, it's measured at 144.

The water tower reports the pollution is 103 as follows:

 

According to the Prima Strategy Guide, the maximum water pollution a tower or pump is able to tolerate is 512. Any more and that's when it gets condemned as unsafe by the health inspectors. So based on this, the pollution at my small town here is well within acceptable levels and it could be built anywhere without fear of a shutdown being an imminent concern. I highly suspect there's even less in your layout with the farms. Though it does depend on whether that custom field you're using produces a higher amount of water pollution. With more than one farm the quantity will likely mount up, and that's when it might reach the point where it needs relocating further away.

 

2 hours ago, That Retro Guy said:

I can then micro-manage each Windmill so it's only producing as much power as needed (plus a little extra) thus saving money.  I'm not sure if you can do this with a Water Tower or not, but if you can, then I will do so.

Yes, this will be perfectly possible. The only requirement for isolation is to ensure the pipes don't connect to other water supply networks. When querying each water tower, the Usage % is the figure to watch out for. Since it'll be confined to represent the total water used for the entirety of the connected pipes, as a proportion of the actual capacity. There's also a maximum capacity value, but as a structure wears down over time, it won't be able to process as much water.

The same also applies for power stations, though there's a handy little mod for that here to increase their lifespan.

 

2 hours ago, That Retro Guy said:

Since this is a farming community, would I want my Sims become highly educated?  If I did that, wouldn't they demand more High Tech jobs?  Or with a higher education, would they just run the farms more efficiently?

Adding educational facilities will improve the EQ level which in the long run is indeed conducive for high tech demand. As far as I'm aware though, once a Sim has a job, they'll be happy to continue at that job or work at that wealth level unless it changes. Also I don't believe education has any effect on how farms (or other industrials / commercials) are run. Getting back to how maximum potential occupancy is determined by desirability for each developer type, that I believe is the closest aspect with regards to efficiency. Since an area which is more desirable then would encourage better working practices. (Well, hypothetically at least in SC4.)

  Edited August 15, 2018 by Cyclone Boom  
Created new pics and annotated the 1st one. I realised I'd only built the water tower 4 cells away!