Interesting Graphical Glitch

[nycsc4 5,250]

I posted this in the SC4 Custom Content thread since that's what appears to be affected here.  I also wanted to post in the Mac Forum since this is taking place on my MacBook.

 

Not sure if this is the right thread for this or not, but I recently came across a very interesting graphical error.  I'm not even sure if graphical error is the right term for it as the game itself is still functioning normally with no gameplay issues.

I've attached some images to illustrate my problem.

Before:

 

After:

You'll notice that the red brick BSC paths and textures I use have suddenly changed to a dirt brown color.  The color of the trees isn't nearly as vibrant either.  The color of my rail catenaries  has also dimmed.  I've attached a closeup below of what they look like now, you can see their original look in the before image above.

I also can no longer make roundabouts with the street or road tools and my roads no longer end in cul-de-sacs like they used to (but streets still do).

 

I run SimCity 4 through Steam on a 2015 MacBook Pro.  Between the before and after shots I made zero changes or additions to my plugins folder or any other game settings.  The only thing I did differently was update my MacOS from Sierra to High Sierra.  After that, these issues started to pop up.  I've re-ploped and redrew several buildings and networks with no apparent change.  Any help would be very much appreciated.  This isn't the biggest deal, and quite honestly the colors aren't all that terrible.  But I'd like to get back to my red bricks and brighter trees if I can.

Thanks!

[CorinaMarie 29,626]

46 minutes ago, nycsc4 said:

I posted this in the SC4 Custom Content thread since that's what appears to be affected here.  I also wanted to post in the Mac Forum since this is taking place on my MacBook.

I replied there saying I believe here is the better place for this and that we don't really want two topics for the same thing.

For the glitch I'm going to guess that the OS update included something which tweaked the graphics drivers and that's what is causing the difference. I know nothing about Macs, but it there an option to rollback individual drivers?

[nycsc4 5,250]

27 minutes ago, CorinaMarie said:

I replied there saying I believe here is the better place for this and that we don't really want two topics for the same thing.

For the glitch I'm going to guess that the OS update included something which tweaked the graphics drivers and that's what is causing the difference. I know nothing about Macs, but it there an option to rollback individual drivers?

There is no good way to roll it back as it was a new operating system.  So for me to roll it back I'd have to wipe the hard drive clean and then reinstall the original OS.

Thanks though!

[CorinaMarie 29,626]

5 minutes ago, nycsc4 said:

There is no good way to roll it back as it was a new operating system.

Well, phooey.

What about searching for the graphics driver separately? Any chance you can find other, older versions?

[rsc204 21,817]

It's rendering related so therefore most likely a change to the graphics drivers has shifted the colour spectrum slightly. I've had such things alter with various NVidia driver updates, sometimes the changes look better, other times not. The only solutions you have are to either update/alter the drivers or otherwise change the driver settings to tweak the display. You may find altering the Gamma setting to make the biggest change.

[CorinaMarie 29,626]

Maybe unrelated, but I recall some post saying that Full Screen and Windowed mode sometimes show slightly different colors. Is it possible you were playing one way before and changed to the other mode concurrent with the OS update?

[nycsc4 5,250]

1 hour ago, rsc204 said:

It's rendering related so therefore most likely a change to the graphics drivers has shifted the colour spectrum slightly. I've had such things alter with various NVidia driver updates, sometimes the changes look better, other times not. The only solutions you have are to either update/alter the drivers or otherwise change the driver settings to tweak the display. You may find altering the Gamma setting to make the biggest change.

I could see where that would change the colors of the trees, paths, and some other things.  But would that effect the road cul-de-sacs and roundabouts?  I've also noticed a new street parking texture that came out of nowhere.  And the day/night cycle option just sits on an evening color.  It doesn't cycle anymore.  This one has me a bit stumped.

[rsc204 21,817]

1 hour ago, CorinaMarie said:

Maybe unrelated, but I recall some post saying that Full Screen and Windowed mode sometimes show slightly different colors

That's because the display settings for your OS is overridden when playing a full screen game, allowing the game to be optimised. You can on many cards alter the graphics settings for each individual game on your system, allowing for much customisation. But, when you switch to Windowed mode, the default settings for the O/S is used instead.

23 minutes ago, nycsc4 said:

But would that effect the road cul-de-sacs and roundabouts?

No. Those rely on RUL code in the NAM to work, if they are not correctly drawing, sounds like the RUL is missing. But, that would require a change of files in your plugins folder to make any sense.

24 minutes ago, nycsc4 said:

I've also noticed a new street parking texture that came out of nowhere.

Well it must have been there, textures can't magically appear from nowhere. So what we need to ascertain is what texture it is, what content it's being used with and from there we'll have a better idea if an override is potentially behind it. A screenshot of the texture would help. Similarly, it could have been an override that was working but suddenly isn't. Why is less clear though.

26 minutes ago, nycsc4 said:

And the day/night cycle option just sits on an evening color.  It doesn't cycle anymore.

Again, slightly odd, but the Mac version of SC4 is basically terrible. It's never been properly patched with fixes the Windows version has had for 13 years. There are some odd problems that can result, but it wouldn't surprise me terribly to find that an O/S change has altered something that is affecting the game. This may explain the general oddities you are experiencing (the colour shift would likely be a separate issue though).

One thing the Mac version does have a problem with, it can only load a certain number of files (plugins), before it will fail to load the rest. This may be a factor here too, if different files are loading successfully than previously, assuming you were beyond the limit. The figure's around here somewhere, I can't remember off-hand, but this is solvable by DATPacking your content until you are within the limit.

But assuming that you have not reached any limits, then I can't imagine there is a whole lot you can do except hope Apple or Aspyr provide a patch/fix to sort out compatibility with the new O/S. Frankly, I wouldn't hold my breath for either of them to do this. Unless the issues are more widespread with games in general, then you may find Apple patch things. But their track record is really poor here, after all, wouldn't you prefer to buy some new games? Aspyr's track record is even worse.

As such, if you have bootcamp or similar, I'd just run the game under Windows. You'll find all your problems go away if you do.

[nycsc4 5,250]

55 minutes ago, rsc204 said:

That's because the display settings for your OS is overridden when playing a full screen game, allowing the game to be optimised. You can on many cards alter the graphics settings for each individual game on your system, allowing for much customisation. But, when you switch to Windowed mode, the default settings for the O/S is used instead.

No. Those rely on RUL code in the NAM to work, if they are not correctly drawing, sounds like the RUL is missing. But, that would require a change of files in your plugins folder to make any sense.

Well it must have been there, textures can't magically appear from nowhere. So what we need to ascertain is what texture it is, what content it's being used with and from there we'll have a better idea if an override is potentially behind it. A screenshot of the texture would help. Similarly, it could have been an override that was working but suddenly isn't. Why is less clear though.

Again, slightly odd, but the Mac version of SC4 is basically terrible. It's never been properly patched with fixes the Windows version has had for 13 years. There are some odd problems that can result, but it wouldn't surprise me terribly to find that an O/S change has altered something that is affecting the game. This may explain the general oddities you are experiencing (the colour shift would likely be a separate issue though).

One thing the Mac version does have a problem with, it can only load a certain number of files (plugins), before it will fail to load the rest. This may be a factor here too, if different files are loading successfully than previously, assuming you were beyond the limit. The figure's around here somewhere, I can't remember off-hand, but this is solvable by DATPacking your content until you are within the limit.

But assuming that you have not reached any limits, then I can't imagine there is a whole lot you can do except hope Apple or Aspyr provide a patch/fix to sort out compatibility with the new O/S. Frankly, I wouldn't hold my breath for either of them to do this. Unless the issues are more widespread with games in general, then you may find Apple patch things. But their track record is really poor here, after all, wouldn't you prefer to buy some new games? Aspyr's track record is even worse.

As such, if you have bootcamp or similar, I'd just run the game under Windows. You'll find all your problems go away if you do.

Yeah, you're probably right.  I need to make that switch.  Many of the issues I had disappeared when I bought the Steam copy a couple years ago.  Other then a few plugin conflicts, this is really one of the few issues I've had that hasn't had an easy fix.  Having said that, the plugin limit is becoming a bit of a problem.  Even with the dat packing.  No nightlights either, and now that I'm getting back into lotting and modding it's becoming quite a pain to switch back and forth between drives since I have to do all that work on Windows.

So I guess my question is, what copy do you recommend for Windows?  The old fashion way with the disk?  Steam?  Any other tips you have for someone making the move would be appreciated too.

Thanks for your help!

[Propfam 2,289]

Or, you can use Wine on Mac: https://www.winehq.org/download. Available for macOS 10.8 and up.

[CorinaMarie 29,626]

8 hours ago, nycsc4 said:

So I guess my question is, what copy do you recommend for Windows?  The old fashion way with the disk?  Steam?

Our number one choice is the Gog Version of SC4 Deluxe.

However, Steam will work just fine as will the version from Amazon. The one to absolutely stay away from is by Origin. They have reverted to selling an unpatched (and unpatchable) version. The disc version is also ok as long as your Win OS is XP. If it's Vista, 7, or 8.x then the DRM check for the CD in the drive has been disable by the OS. (There is a relatively easy workaround for this for those OS's but not really recommended.) And if you have 10 it's almost, but not quite impossible, to get the disc version to work. (Again not recommended since this OS requires extensive workaround steps.)

In summary: Best = Gog's and Absolute Worst (don't even consider buying it) = Origin.

[nycsc4 5,250]

16 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

Our number one choice is the Gog Version of SC4 Deluxe.

However, Steam will work just fine as will the version from Amazon. The one to absolutely stay away from is by Origin. They have reverted to selling an unpatched (and unpatchable) version. The disc version is also ok as long as your Win OS is XP. If it's Vista, 7, or 8.x then the DRM check for the CD in the drive has been disable by the OS. (There is a relatively easy workaround for this for those OS's but not really recommended.) And if you have 10 it's almost, but not quite impossible, to get the disc version to work. (Again not recommended since this OS requires extensive workaround steps.)

In summary: Best = Gog's and Absolute Worst (don't even consider buying it) = Origin.

Ok, I have this new version.  Is this fully patched or do I need to download the updates and patches for night lighting or anything like that?  I'm also assuming that I should reinstall NAM and most other mods then simply transfer my old plugins folder from my Mac over?

Is there a recommended resolution to run the game and/or Windows at?  My resolution is pretty high on this computer (2560 X 1600) so I have these large black bars on either side of the screen.

Thanks for your help!

[rsc204 21,817]

GoG version is fully patched. After a new install, the most important fix is the I-HT one, since the new install won't have that.

Plugins is a copy/cut and paste job, you don't need to re-install anything, even the NAM will work fine.

As for resolution, 1200 vertical is the max you can go without major problems. So find a supported horizontal resolution for your display that pairs with 1200 vertically and you'll get the best results. If all else fails, standard full HD 1920x1080 should always be supported by your monitor.

[CorinaMarie 29,626]

5 hours ago, nycsc4 said:

Is this fully patched or do I need to download the updates and patches for night lighting or anything like that?

2 hours ago, rsc204 said:

GoG version is fully patched.

Just to clarify here: Fully patched in this case refers to the two patches by Maxis. That's the EP1 and the Nightlights patches. The game itself still has many little bugs which the players have created fixes for. Most notably the I-HT @rsc204 mentioned. A few more can be found in my post here.

 

[nycsc4 5,250]

22 hours ago, rsc204 said:

GoG version is fully patched. After a new install, the most important fix is the I-HT one, since the new install won't have that.

Plugins is a copy/cut and paste job, you don't need to re-install anything, even the NAM will work fine.

As for resolution, 1200 vertical is the max you can go without major problems. So find a supported horizontal resolution for your display that pairs with 1200 vertically and you'll get the best results. If all else fails, standard full HD 1920x1080 should always be supported by your monitor.

 

20 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

Just to clarify here: Fully patched in this case refers to the two patches by Maxis. That's the EP1 and the Nightlights patches. The game itself still has many little bugs which the players have created fixes for. Most notably the I-HT @rsc204 mentioned. A few more can be found in my post here.

 

Thanks for all your help here.  Have another interesting thing here.  I've made the move over to Windows again and everything is going smoothly for the most part.  But it seems when I save a city tile this little graphical glitch appears.  I've added a screenshot.  It does not seem to effect the tile when you open it, just an oddity in the region view.

[rsc204 21,817]

Again this stems from the resolution used to play the game. Whilst in theory, the game will allow a huge number of resolutions, the screenshots made as part of the save process do not support all of them. So you can either live with it if it doesn't bother you (and likely enjoy a higher resolution), otherwise you probably need to use one of the standard resolutions like full HD, which will prevent this occurring.

[CorinaMarie 29,626]

I believe @A Nonny Moose said the threshold for that particular graphic glitch in the region view is over 1199 pixels vertical. For instance, on my square-ish screens I get the glitch when I play at 1600 x 1200, but not on my next lowest of 1280 x 1024. So, I if I want to play at 1600 x 1200 I go ahead and do that, save, then exit. (I get the glitch.) Then I just exit the game and use my other icon that I've set for 1280 x 1024, load that tile, save, then exit, and my region view is back to normal.

Notice I've said: Save, then Exit as opposed to Save and Exit. Using the Save & Exit or the Save & Quit risks corrupting the city save file. One should do them as separate operations. Save. Done. Now exit (or quit) without saving.

[nycsc4 5,250]

On 12/6/2017 at 3:04 AM, rsc204 said:

Again this stems from the resolution used to play the game. Whilst in theory, the game will allow a huge number of resolutions, the screenshots made as part of the save process do not support all of them. So you can either live with it if it doesn't bother you (and likely enjoy a higher resolution), otherwise you probably need to use one of the standard resolutions like full HD, which will prevent this occurring.

 

On 12/6/2017 at 4:55 AM, CorinaMarie said:

I believe @A Nonny Moose said the threshold for that particular graphic glitch in the region view is over 1199 pixels vertical. For instance, on my square-ish screens I get the glitch when I play at 1600 x 1200, but not on my next lowest of 1280 x 1024. So, I if I want to play at 1600 x 1200 I go ahead and do that, save, then exit. (I get the glitch.) Then I just exit the game and use my other icon that I've set for 1280 x 1024, load that tile, save, then exit, and my region view is back to normal.

Notice I've said: Save, then Exit as opposed to Save and Exit. Using the Save & Exit or the Save & Quit risks corrupting the city save file. One should do them as separate operations. Save. Done. Now exit (or quit) without saving.

Thanks for all your help on this guys.  I really appreciate it.  Graphical issues seem to be resolved for the time being.  It's going to take some time getting used to SC4 on Windows again.  Really going to miss my hot corners lol.

Anyway, thanks again!