Jakis'z BAT Thread

[jakis 287]

Hi there! 
I desided to create a new own type of building which will be involved in mass residental construction in Dzingalia.

So, I've created one prototype for testing

Check it out!

Sorry for chaotic order.
NB! Windows in this building aren't textured yet. Nitelite and lot are unfinished as well

The question is: how fine is a roof, balconies and model in all?

P.S. It's only 1 prototype of 70, their distinction is in color (white, gray, pink, orange, yellow, beige, green, cyan, blue and violet (house with this color is showed above) and in number of storeys (3 (this showed above), 5, 7, 9, 11, 13 and 15.

[kathrynlacey 36]

I like the balconies, and the color.  Why not make the roof a bit darker with gravelled texture, or with scattered leaves on the roof, or something.  Also, if you could add a custom sign on the wall, or fancy up the entrance balcony with a cool fence or entry gate.  Really great work, overall!

 

[jakis 287]

I almost had done everything but a new problem appeared. On the render, the shadows are only from the south side at zoom:5. From all other points of view and zooms, the shadows are gone at all. Why though?

[DavidDHetzel 1,816]

the model itself is very nice, but I'd think about enlarging it slightly as it look very undersized. Maybe something to fit a 2x3.

[jakis 287]

6 minutes ago, DavidDHetzel said:

the model itself is very nice, but I'd think about enlarging it slightly as it look very undersized. Maybe something to fit a 2x3.

that's exactly what I did, but there is a problem about I wrote here today 

[rsc204 21,836]

Strikes me you may have forgot to re-make the LODs. If you made the building bigger, they will no longer fit, causing the extremities to go missing.

[jakis 287]

1 hour ago, rsc204 said:

Strikes me you may have forgot to re-make the LODs. If you made the building bigger, they will no longer fit, causing the extremities to go missing.

Thats right, but unfortunately doesn't make a sense, while I import the model into the GMAX and merge it to scene (Sketchup Pro -> 3DS MAX -> SC4 B.A.T.).

The "funny" is that when I start rendering preview (south, zoom:5) for the first time, everything is ok, shadows are there. But when i'll try do the same again, shadows won't appear.

I even don't know, what went wrong... Earlier it worked correctly...

[rsc204 21,836]

Which application are you rendering in, SC4 BAT or 3DS Max?

In either case, the scene should have all the settings that control the sun and thus how shadows are formed. If that's not working, then you probably need to reset the scene so it works.

If using BAT4Max, that's a one click operation.

However, in SC4 BAT this should be setup by default. So if it's not working, perhaps importing the model is overwriting the default elements.

If I may suggest something, if you really have 3DS Max at your disposal and SC4 BAT, why bother with Sketchup too, it's just complicating matters. You can just work in either Max or SC4 BAT (Which uses gMax, which you can think of as a baby 3DS Max). Sure, it is different to Sketchup if you are used to it, but for reasonably simply geometry like you have here, it shouldn't be too tough to adapt.

This sort of application can be very finicky with file formats, bear in mind SC4BAT is based an a early 2000's application which hasn't been updated. So exporting from modern apps may have compatibility issues. By exporting the model twice, you are simply making that process even harder. If Sketchup can export 3DS format, why not skip the additional step of 3DS Max, it could help. Also, you need to pay close attention to the settings for such saves, since getting those right could be key to this working.

[jakis 287]

4 minutes ago, rsc204 said:

Which application are you rendering in, SC4 BAT or 3DS Max?

The first one, because I'm not completely sure how to make night lights.

7 minutes ago, rsc204 said:

In either case, the scene should have all the settings that control the sun and thus how shadows are formed. If that's not working, then you probably need to reset the scene so it works.

I tried this before, but it always be the same...

9 minutes ago, rsc204 said:

If Sketchup can export 3DS format, why not skip the additional step of 3DS Max, it could help.

Unfortunately I have to do this, otherwise SC4BAT crashes any time when importing...

 

One more thing: I pretty much remember, all that worked a week ago. But I don't know, how it happened...

[rsc204 21,836]

2 minutes ago, jakis said:

The first one, because I'm not completely sure how to make night lights.

NiteLights are optional, 3DS Max handles it very differently from SC4BAT, but it's not strictly necessary for either application. Which version of 3DS Max do you have?

3 minutes ago, jakis said:

I tried this before, but it always be the same...

Yes and no... you don't have the ability to change the defaults, but then again, those defaults are just hidden objects. So when you import the file as 3DS, if such an object with the same name exists, it can overwrite the default. I fear this could be the problem and the fix is ensuring such things are not exported from 3DS Max. You need the geometry only.

4 minutes ago, jakis said:

Unfortunately I have to do this, otherwise SC4BAT crashes any time when importing...

Well, that just tells me you aren't using the right export format from Sketchup. I can't help you explicitly with that, but others too had problems with this, look hard enough around these pages, you should come across the solution. In the meantime, use trial and error, but you are looking for some sort of legacy compatibility when saving.

[jakis 287]

today i've tried with another model, everything's working correctly

So what could be, if method is working, but something's wrong exactly with this model?..

My variants: too many of geometry/problems with textures (materials)/something erroneous in this model

[rsc204 21,836]

Honestly it's really hard to say, because there are so many possibilities for causing issues. However the most likely one is that something you did with the geometry simply couldn't be correctly interpreted by SC4 BAT.

You really should be doing things like applying textures in SC4 BAT, not in Sketchup. Again I have to wonder why you don't model in SC4 BAT too. I do understand the applications are different and you may understand sketchup better. But, it wouldn't take too long to work out the changes between the two and having done so you'd avoid running into these problems in future.

[Gn_leugim 858]

11 hours ago, rsc204 said:

You really should be doing things like applying textures in SC4 BAT, not in Sketchup. Again I have to wonder why you don't model in SC4 BAT too. I do understand the applications are different and you may understand sketchup better. But, it wouldn't take too long to work out the changes between the two and having done so you'd avoid running into these problems in future.

I could not agree more, it would make thing much easier in the long run. It is very easy to model in gmax SC4BAT and in no time you will be making wonders with it

[jakis 287]

So, by an about hundred experiments, I found that shadows wouldn't appear if the number of polygons in the model is more than 10,000.
Is that real?

And what to do, if my real model has about 16,000 polygons?.. Idk, how to reduсe more polygons... it becomes to a simple (useless) box.

 

UPD: Okay, now I'm really sure, that the case in the polygons. So, one thing remains: to reduce their number.

UPD2: No, something weird is exactly in my model. I've tried make something else with overpolygon (more 36000), that was working...

  Edited October 19, 2017 by jakis  
update #2

[jakis 287]

k, how setting nitelites is different in "gmax" and "3dsmax" (3DSforBAT)? Earlier, I just grouped windows and named it "nitelites" in Gmax.

[rsc204 21,836]

On 18/10/2017 at 9:46 PM, jakis said:

And what to do, if my real model has about 16,000 polygons?.. Idk, how to reduсe more polygons... it becomes to a simple (useless) box.

No offence intended, but quite how does such a simple model like you show end up with 16k Polys in the first place? That tells me you are not modelling very efficiently, few games could support a lot of content with such high poly-counts. Oddly though, SC4 is not one of them, you can use as many as you like, since SC4 doesn't render the model, only the LODs. So the only downside is the time taken to render the textures that are applied to the LODs. As such, I've happily made 2 Million + Poly models for SC4, although it's laziness as much as anything.

However, you are quite right that SC4 BAT or gMax (since the former is just scripts for the latter), has a finite limit on the detail it can handle. Partially because the age of the application, partially because it was a free alternative to 3DS Max, so they didn't want to make it as good. Likely there isn't a way around such problems, you will need to either learn to model more efficiently or consider modelling in 3DS Max directly, where such limits do not apply.

Take a look here, running through this tutorial will help you to make geometry that works in SC4 BAT and get used to the application:

On 20/10/2017 at 12:00 PM, jakis said:

k, how setting nitelites is different in "gmax" and "3dsmax" (3DSforBAT)? Earlier, I just grouped windows and named it "nitelites" in Gmax.

This method will simply not work in 3DS Max, the  BAT4Max scripts simply don't work this way. You should see the BAT4Max documentation, which explains how it works in 3DS Max.

[jakis 287]

 

--- I will not rejoice in order not to frighten off a luck .---

So, I sincerely hope that, it seems, I solved the problem of shadows on renderers.

What did I do?:
- Removed 1 living room in the left wing of the building to enlarge the model itself, but retaining the possibility of placing in the previous lot 2x2.
- changed the texture of the roof, making it look like a blocked. Has more, so to speak, recognizable or common shade.
- shortened for 2 times the entrance visor.
- created and added window textures and air duct on the roof between some air conditioners.

Question: how much better is the model now? Do not pay attention on the lot also, because this will be the next stage.

P.S. On the roof of the left wing of the building I lost a fragment of the air duct, so do not pay attention that there is an unconnected pipe from one air conditioner.

 

[Jasoncw 11,934]

I think because you have 3ds Max you should use it to BAT. Making nitelites in 3ds Max is very very very easy.  

Either way, for your building you should look at real roofs, and copy them. In real life air conditioners are not arranged like that. Actually I think the roof should probably be very plain, with only a few small vents. And it's better that way because it takes less work to make.  

[jakis 287]

33 minutes ago, Jasoncw said:

In real life air conditioners are not arranged like that. Actually I think the roof should probably be very plain, with only a few small vents.

That's because I've looked at this:

[Praha, Luzziny] 

[jakis 287]

One more thing.
I think that is necessarilly to equip some balconies in this house model. However, in the country it is forbidden to make glazing, superstructure or rearrangement of the balcony at all. Also, residents do not have the habit of putting things (sometimes unnecessary things) on the balcony. Therefore, I have a couple of ideas for arrangement:
- laundry drying
- flowers in tubs
If you have more ideas for arrangement, comment here.

[Jasoncw 11,934]

I think some flowers, or laundry, or also chairs would be great.  

It looks like on that roof, the L shaped roof junk is above the kitchens/bathrooms. And then there is some more placed conveniently next to the stairs/elevators/mechanical penthouse. 

[jakis 287]

I'm thinking about such thing... Is it possible to make a TAB Loop for the compact placement of my "sight" buildings from my project in the sights menu (as ramps in the NAM)?.. Few things by which that 40 buildings are different are only a number of storeys and coloring. So I can group them by color, for example. Otherwise, it will be very incomfortable to place 40 lots in one menu.

[Jasoncw 11,934]

I don't think that's possible. 

It is possible to randomize the building on each lot. So for example, you could put each color variation onto the same lot, and when the building is plopped/grown it would be a random color. 

I think menu clutter for your project is unavoidable.

[matias93 7,535]

Tab loops are impossible for everything but networks. Your alternatives are:

• Building Families, making the buildings to appear at random on the lots (which is useful for buildings of the same size but not for differently sized ones)

or different lots for each building but:

• an MML file that hides the menu items until a placeholder lot is plopped
• a pre-made DAMN sub-menu for the lots
• adequately ordered lots that don't end scattered through the selected menu, but that still clutter it, letting the end user the work.

[jakis 287]

I were really busy these days. Finally, I've done my large amount of work and continued the work i'm doing by the case of this topic. Also I solved, i think, all problems here and here're the models.

Did:

• Made window textures darken
• Top floor with entrance to the roof is switched off (with no nitelite)
• Added flowerboxes, chairs, tables and washed laundry
• Decided, that yellow color must be done firstly

Wanna get some advices about this. Maybe redo something or anything else.

P.S. LOTs are still unfinished, cause models are more important now.

P.S-2. The shadow problem were solved. Sketchup exporting a big meshes, so you need to break up to the smaller meshes. If it not works (shadows are still disappearing), one of the meshes may be still too big.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[AndisArt 2,068]

Wow these are giving so much variety! I love it Great job on creating this flexibility!

What I would like to suggest is that you check the color value in contrast to the SC4 ingame colors, at present the yellow looks to me a bit too bright and it might not fit well into the tileset of the game. An easy way to do this is to save your render as a PNG file and paste it into a screenshot of the game. I think you only need to turn down the saturation for it to work well.

Good luck looking forward to see more

 

[jakis 287]

aight, I were following your advice and here're another renders.

What I did:

• Chose right grass texture. Also this one were used in my favourite grass plugin for airport. You can see this ones are placed around a "complex" in 3'rd and 4'th pics.
• Bit darken and faded the facade and concrete textures. You can see changes by 1'st and 2'nd pics.
• Made a linear version bigger for really very bit (to 1.0001463977 times) to made linear version a same size as a angular. 
• Moved a building a bit away from "street" (linear version). So, you can see in the 4'th pic a linear version seems more attached to an angular, than in the 3'rd pic.

Known bugs:

• Concrete texture didn't change in the angular version. eh, i forgot.

I still need your advices 

 

 

 

 

[AndisArt 2,068]

Yes it looks better with the saturation. What I forgot to mention is that when you lower the saturation in a material it gets darker. The new version lacks a bit of contrast now, the colors are in a similar contrast level now which makes it look a bit undefined. I would suggest you try brighten either the white parts or try brighten the color (not saturation but brightness only).

Actually, looking at the the last two pictures, it looks like in the lower right corner, the corner building, that is a desaturated, but more contrast rich version. Is that correct? This I think looks more appealing.

The best test to quickly see how the appearnce works or not is to paste it into an ingame city screenshot. Can you post one like that?

[matias93 7,535]

Just to be sure, the beveled borders around the windows are meant to represent this?

If it's the case, maybe you would want to give a second look to the texture or modelling of the bevels. Unless they are painted specifically on a fairer colour than the overall wall, they shouldn't look of a different colour, but a variation of the same, either more brilliant if the walls are clean or darker if they are grimy.

 

Anyway, your progress is spectacular and I cannot wait to use those blocks on my city!!

[jakis 287]

41 minutes ago, andisart said:

Actually, looking at the the last two pictures, it looks like in the lower right corner, the corner building, that is a desaturated, but more contrast rich version. Is that correct? This I think looks more appealing.

Really? 

That's cause in the linear version the "concrete" texture were saturated as well as a facade texture. But in the angular version this (concrete) texture weren't saturated, because I forgot to do this. And this fact is listed in the known bugs in my last (before this) post. But I didn't expect, that bug will became a feature XD

I really thought, that this version of texture is more like a concrete. Now i'm confused...

Also, a facade texture were saturated in the both versions of housings.

[Actually, I prefer the linear version with less contrast... now idk]