Catenary types for Rail systems in different localities

[Eggman121 1,052]

Hello everyone.

As a side project, (one of the Many) Some of you may know that I am  working on a catenary mod for the Real Railway or RRW. This mod will be a substantial upgrade to the existing catenary mods out there and I plan to unify all the various sets into one Mod.

Now what I am wondering and asking from the community is to post or lend me co-ordinates on google maps the various types of catenary pole styles out in Particular Europe and Japan.

Here are some of the workings I have done so far...

So as you can see there are a variety of poles that I have worked on with Uki Sim providing some of the pole textures. I have however had to make the poles from scratch.

You will also note that there is actual wire above the track.

This is still very much a work in progress and I will try to make the poles but as a community this is what I need from you to provide examples of.

1. STR and DTR ortho Poles.
2. End of track poles.
3. Turnout poles for various turnouts like...

• DTR to STR
• DTR with STR branch off
• DTR with DTR Branch off
• Complex Turnouts

The wire is basically a 3D flat plane with the wire texture attached.

I was keeping this project private but alas I need some examples of poles to get the project moving forward. That is even if the project has too be put in the public domain.

-eggman121 (NAM Team Member).

[matias93 7,535]

I'm really interested in this project, but so far I haven't found what you need in terms of diversity. I'm keeping the search and hope to bring results this night (tomorrow's morning for you)

[rsc204 21,859]

I've been meaning to reply myself too, but things are really crazy right now with one thing or another. It's raining problems!

First off, this is a great implementation and I'm sure many users really want to see their rail lines properly electrified. Having actual wires is really just gravy, albeit tasty delicious gravy . One issue that's occurred with the expansion of RRW is that mods are no longer anything close to complete coverage. Personally I'd rather have no catenaries than have them in some spots and missing in others. So this project is certainly something that is needed and I think perfectly placed for being a NAM option for RRW too.

Seems to me, you don't need to worry too much about handling every variant style-wise of the catenary poles. That's a job for modders who create them ultimately, but if you set things up right, it should be a doddle for anyone to throw in a DAT file to replace your defaults, whilst keeping the wires in-place.

So to begin with, are these T21s or Lots? Really, the former is a much better solution IMO. Being the main RRW developer, once you got the T21s in place for the existing content, it wouldn't be too difficult to keep on top of new pieces. Plus, rail is much simplified over road networks, there is really no wealth/zoning type differences to worry about. Just a single set of T21s that are always there. Of course that may be a little more work than lots, but actually a T21 is really just a lot. The point being that lots may require offsets that are different to T21s, so if you are going that route, you want to go there from the outset or you just create more work for yourself. It's much easier to offset props later for use on lots than the other way around.

So having clearly given a diagram with details of the position of the wires, that should be sufficient for modellers to make compatible poles. Although, it might help if you included the basic straight wires in a 3DS file, so modellers could have them in-place as a visual aid or helper to line things up. Similarly, whilst at it, why not add a ground plane with the RRW texture too, not necessary, but useful I think.

Given your choice of RTK0 props (true 3D), actually there is only a need to model maybe one or two props, so it's real easy from there. What you need to do is compile thereafter a list of exemplar IDs and the exact modifications done in Model Tweaker for that variant. Example:

• ID xxxx1 - Ortho Piece, No Modification
• ID xxxx2 - Diag Piece, Rotated C/W, Free 45°
• ID xxxx3 - R1 Curve Piece 1, Rotated XX...

And so on. Armed with this simple document, any modder can replicate your set pretty exactly, assuming they are using poles which are on the same position of the XY axis (or XZ as modelled).

One small issue I can forsee, you have gone here with a single double pole for the DTR Ortho pieces. Should a modeller want poles that are separate for either side, that would mess with things. Unless... you simply took two poles and made them one model, tada, that issue is now out of the way.

If such documentation existed, I know I'd want to have a go at making some UK-style poles, although I think those are fairly similar to most lines around here. Also, armed with the T21s, it'd be a synch to copy them to new IDs for use with the future Real HSR too. One thing I would do, have the T21s and prop exemplars in one DAT file. Then Keep only the S3D models for the wires in another, with a separate file also for the S3D catenary pole models. This way, either set of models can be overridden or replaced (you know I prefer to do the latter), with any third party variant. The prop exemplars/ID will always be set in stone, creators of replacements should use the same ID scheme for their variants. So that way everything is interchangeable with the minimum of fuss.

I hope this makes sense and sorry if I'm pointing out the obvious or duplicating things you've already planned, just trying to be comprehensive here. As usual I offer my services to assist with the T21s, although that may be limited, because I'm stuffed full of outstanding projects right now.

[Eggman121 1,052]

Thanks for the reply @rsc204

Yes indeed the solution is a T21 method. I only have lots lined up to hide the centenaries by using the spaceport property so there can be electrified and un-electrified sections if desired.

Lots will also be made for stations but apart from that This Mod is completely T21 based.

I have already done the mechanics that you set out (I have a feeling you where reading my mind ) and Having true 3d Sprites removes the need to rotate and re-BAT models. The wires are also on two 3d Planes and that removes the complexity of the wires which is why this project has been shelved for some time.

This post was more to get opinions of different poles that are in certain localities. I the mechanics are all set up for new pole types and All I need to do is provide the IIDs.

I think I am in the position to handle the T21s and If you have some poles that you would like included I would be delighted to add them.

-eggman121 (NAM Team member)

[matias93 7,535]

Well, I got some images while travelling on google maps , mainly on Valparaíso and Santiago:

First, this monster; a cantilevered pole with a double track array hanging from one side. Too much complicated for my taste, but maybe useful on some strange configurations

Then, this one, which is the most common on urban Valparaíso: a double track array on a central pole; I guess you could get the same effect by overimposing two single track poles on the middle:

This ones are single side poles, but the closer one to the road looks like being a divergence point (this is just some blocks away from the terminal station, so is very probable)

Now, a clearer view of the single side pole: It has this weird zig-zag thing on the end, I guess to let the wires to move freely with strong wind or earthquakes. Also, the red lightpole on the back is indeed over that boat, some dozens of metres away from the tracks:

A much simpler double array on an overpass on Quilpué, very similar to the second one but separated on each side instead of on the middle:

This one is really nice: an underpass railway transitioning from single to double track on a curve (I guess this is somewhat complicated). From what I manage to see on the photo, the last pole on the left is recieving the wires from the right side, and the pole locations are alternated on the double track section. Also, it's a very good reference for ballast and sleeper textures, that I surely will use when the customisation tool becomes available:

Somewhat oversized catenaries on a new commuter rail in Santiago, that look a lot like the ones you are using as example, but with more things hanging on the middle:

Lots of weird combinations (even with rigid catenaries) on the 3 Line depot of the Santiago Metro (with many more photos and information in English here)

 

Well, those are a lot of images, and many different standards for catenaries, but hey, that's more options to choose too! Hope this helps

[Eggman121 1,052]

I must say @matias93 that the poles shown are very similar to those in Australia especially in Sydney. @rivit may be able to give an opinion here.

This exercise is very useful in the way that I can group some localities and make some standard sets. The poles look quite plain in geometry as well making them easier to model.

Thanks for the input. This will go really well with my understanding of rail systems from around the world

-eggman121 (NAM Team Member)

[rsc204 21,859]

Last picture of the first post from here is what I was thinking of, that's pretty much the default for normal rail in the UK. Obviously they get more complex around stations and multi-line areas, but this style is exactly what I was thinking I would like to see.

Whilst I think of it, German Catenaries are pretty unique, but I like the style very much. These are very common for the S-Bahn lines, although the more modern ICE lines and where they have been refurbished often resemble the UK ones more.

A set was made by SFBT which can be found here (that's the ones I used on these lots).

[Eggman121 1,052]

Ohh that is an excellent reference for the Mod.

Although there won't be zigzagging of the wire due to implementation complexity but the rest is excellent information that will come in handy for technical composing.

Thanks for getting this to my attention.

-eggman121

[rsc204 21,859]

See above, I added some detail on German catenaries too