Broken industrial demand?

[Cubelic2 3]

I am having a big problem. Every city i create has a too big industry demand and too little res. and com. demand. Even when i create a quarter of the largest map with industry, the demand is still really high. Then ALL demand stops except industry. There is no way i can grow my city without making it hideous and polluted. When i raise the dirty industry demand, all the others are high. I can't make my whole city Industry. Can someone give me tips on how to stop this?

[CorinaMarie 29,774]

The first question, ofc, is are you playing plain vanilla or do you have any demand boosting mods installed?

[Cubelic2 3]

20 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

The first question, ofc, is are you playing plain vanilla or do you have any demand boosting mods installed?

I'm using vanilla. And i know i have no mods installed because i emptied my plugins folder and the issue still occurs.

[CorinaMarie 29,774]

Ok. What you are seeing is the typical Maxis default taking affect. Their general intention is that dirty industry (and agriculture if you chose to use it) are really temporary starter industries. While the ag will cap out if you get up to 30,000 jobs, the dirty industry demand will shoot up to 6000 and pretty much stay there unless you do one of two things.

1. Incrementally raise dirty industry taxes until you get the demand in the 0 to 2000 range. (Or you can even force it to go negative.)
2. Educate your Sims to create demand for manufacturing and high tech industry.

As your Sim's average EQ goes up the demand for dirty industry will go down. Higher education also sparks interest in medium and high wealth residential as well as other higher wealth commercial and industrial. There is one mod that is pretty much considered essential. That's the IH missing $$$ jobs fix (update!) patch. Due to the way the game is created that particular one has to be merged into your SimCity_1.dat file by DatPacking. See the Tutorial: Applying the I-HT Bug-Fix correctly topic for instructions on that.

[Cubelic2 3]

3 minutes ago, CorinaMarie said:

Ok. What you are seeing is the typical Maxis default taking affect. Their general intention is that dirty industry (and agriculture if you chose to use it) are really temporary starter industries. While the ag will cap out if you get up to 30,000 jobs, the dirty industry demand will shoot up to 6000 and pretty much stay there unless you do one of two things.

1. Incrementally raise dirty industry taxes until you get the demand in the 0 to 2000 range. (Or you can even force it to go negative.)
2. Educate your Sims to create demand for manufacturing and high tech industry.

As your Sim's average EQ goes up the demand for dirty industry will go down. Higher education also sparks interest in medium and high wealth residential as well as other higher wealth commercial and industrial. There is one mod that is pretty much considered essential. That's the IH missing $$$ jobs fix (update!) patch. Due to the way the game is created that particular one has to be merged into your SimCity_1.dat file by DatPacking. See the Tutorial: Applying the I-HT Bug-Fix correctly topic for instructions on that.

Okay. I'm going to try to increase taxes and education, and the patch. I hope it works. Thanks for the help!

[rsc204 21,836]

10 hours ago, Cubelic2 said:

Okay. I'm going to try to increase taxes and education, and the patch. I hope it works. Thanks for the help!

Just bear in mind that this behaviour is intended, another way of putting that is to say it's how the game works.

For a new city to grow, you need residents, but residents need jobs to work in, or why would they come to your city? Only as your city and region grows should you expect things to naturally develop. If you try to force this too quickly, you'll end up with R$$$ and R$$ sims moving in, but those properties quickly becoming abandoned or dilapidated because richer sims are more sensitive to their surroundings.

R$ sims will pretty much put up with any conditions. They don't care if it's dirty, polluted, sans-water and other services. R$ sims also form the backbone of your entire base of residents, even at later stages of the game. You know how the world needs poor people to run everything?

R$$ sims are slightly more picky, they will want a better quality of life before settling. Maybe some services, nicer areas to live etc.

R$$$ sims are very picky. So they are much more prone to abandon than other types. Similar with I-HT, CO$$/CO$$$ and CS$$$ buildings. If something changes they don't like, they'll quickly leave.

Now consider that in order to provide for the higher wealth residents and businesses, you need to have expensive services with good coverage. Those aren't things you can likely afford in the early years of your cities growth. If you try to rush this too much, you'll either bankrupt your city or be fighting with keeping them the whole time.

Think of the start as a bit like the Industrial Revolution. You have to go through the process of using that to make money, before you can improve things, it's a necessary part of the development of your regions. This is all covered in the in-game tutorials to some extent, which if you've not played through, I can highly recommend. After that, there is a great tutorial here that explains how to create regional demand/development.

[Cubelic2 3]

On 7/5/2017 at 7:27 AM, rsc204 said:

Just bear in mind that this behaviour is intended, another way of putting that is to say it's how the game works.

For a new city to grow, you need residents, but residents need jobs to work in, or why would they come to your city? Only as your city and region grows should you expect things to naturally develop. If you try to force this too quickly, you'll end up with R$$$ and R$$ sims moving in, but those properties quickly becoming abandoned or dilapidated because richer sims are more sensitive to their surroundings.

R$ sims will pretty much put up with any conditions. They don't care if it's dirty, polluted, sans-water and other services. R$ sims also form the backbone of your entire base of residents, even at later stages of the game. You know how the world needs poor people to run everything?

R$$ sims are slightly more picky, they will want a better quality of life before settling. Maybe some services, nicer areas to live etc.

R$$$ sims are very picky. So they are much more prone to abandon than other types. Similar with I-HT, CO$$/CO$$$ and CS$$$ buildings. If something changes they don't like, they'll quickly leave.

Now consider that in order to provide for the higher wealth residents and businesses, you need to have expensive services with good coverage. Those aren't things you can likely afford in the early years of your cities growth. If you try to rush this too much, you'll either bankrupt your city or be fighting with keeping them the whole time.

Think of the start as a bit like the Industrial Revolution. You have to go through the process of using that to make money, before you can improve things, it's a necessary part of the development of your regions. This is all covered in the in-game tutorials to some extent, which if you've not played through, I can highly recommend. After that, there is a great tutorial here that explains how to create regional demand/development.

Yeah, i get that i need to go through the dirty industry. I usually build a central city with a lot of industries so i can make nicer cities because sims will just commute to the other one, but i ran into a problem recently when a lot of low-wealth sims were unemployed, but there as no demand for industry except agriculture, but i think agriculture can't support a 60K city.

[rsc204 21,836]

If you are starting out with a region/city, dirty industrial is a necessary evil, because you need the jobs. But if you've the cash to improve and stabilise the influx of I-HT, you can ditch the I-D/I-M for the most part and move towards cleaner industrial areas. But this takes time and resources to make happen, you must have a good education level to get decent I-HT demand. Ensure too you've got the I-HT fix/patch, otherwise you might end up with problems.

One mod I would recommend though is the Industrial Doubler mod, which simply doubles the number of jobs for all industrial buildings (from Maxis). This way you will need only half the amount of Ind to cover the same population. And frankly, I'd agree that in many ways the number of jobs by default is way too low for industrial.

[T Wrecks 10,209]

There's also a quadruper for industrial jobs - you should find it linked as a dependency in pretty much all of my IRM uploads.

Of course it's debatable how many jobs an industrial building should provide. SimCity isn't necessarily realistic in terms of building occupancy / job figures. For example, most single-family homes have ridiculously high occupant figures. A small CS§ shoebox store that comfortably fits on a 1x2 lot may offer up to 80 jobs, when a huge industrial facility has far fewer jobs. In the end, it's you who decides. I merely mentioned the quadrupler for the sake of completeness.

[markussaage 762]

On 7.7.2017 at 9:35 AM, Cubelic2 said:

Yeah, i get that i need to go through the dirty industry.

No, you don't. If you like farms, you could use those instead. That's, what I do. But, I've to admit, I use Mods, and those are changing the demands. Haven't been playing with Vanilla in years! 99% Mods and 1% original game in my case... And you're right, supporting 60k citizens will be kinda hard with farms, especially Vanilla only here... But, what the heck, give it a try. May be it works out, if you're playing a huge map?!

Kind regards!

[jeffryfisher 2,176]

On 7/4/2017 at 12:29 PM, CorinaMarie said:

There is one mod that is pretty much considered essential. That's the IH missing $$$ jobs fix (update!) patch.

I thought the NAM was the one most essential mod, but that's because the IH fix comes bundled inside the CAM 

There are a couple other "fix" mods that are highly recommended (e.g. opera house, private school etc). Search for threads where we've discussed "essential" mods in the recent past.

[CorinaMarie 29,774]

3 hours ago, jeffryfisher said:

Search for threads where we've discussed "essential" mods in the recent past.

Or look here.