Resize models on only one dimension

[matias93 7,535]

Disclaimer: this question is, by the moment, more oriented to a mental experiment than to an actual custom creation project, that could change depending on the difficulty of the task.

With the advent of the much more realist L1 (7.5 metres high) viaducts for almost every network in game, several objects tailored to match the old L2 (15 metres high) viaducts are becoming obsolete, or at least, less flexible to apply. Nevertheless, many of them are really great works of modelling and it would be a shame to get rid of them.

At the same time, there exist the capacity to modify the scale of S3D models with the Model Tweaker, which has been used to solve general problems of uneven scalling after the models had been rendered.

The question is: is the model tweaker able to re-scale an S3D model on only one axis (specifically, the vertical or z axis), to make objects as Deadwoods' Raised Parks, SFBT Urban Highways and Morifari El-rail enbankments to match the new L1 standard? While this would be a solution of less quality (as compared with creating new versions of those models, using the most recent advances in modelling), it would reduce enormously the workload and time to achieve compatibility.

And just as important: which would be the sharing statute of the resized models? I understand that the modification is done to the model itself, creator side, and the original SC4model files couldn't be refered as a dependency. There could be, then, a fair way to redistribute the hypotetical scaled models, particularly in the case the creators or their custodians cannot be reached to ask for permisson?

*  *  *

EDIT: As I should thought, the answer can basically be resumed as "go and try it by yourself". It seems to work, or at least that's what can be seen when comparing the modified S3D files on the reader:

Yes, there is some distorsion, particularly Moiré patterns on the stairs and the rocks look a little squished, but in general the model even looks more realistic in its proportions. Don't know if the modifications will sustain on the game, and I imagine that this changes will require relotting all the objects that were put on the raised levels --and that by now have to be floating-- but that's not hard to do.

But the other question stills: If I do this resizing, would I be able to redistribute the models, license-wise? Frankly, I wouldn't be motivated to do this work if I would be the only one able to use it...

  Edited February 19, 2017 by matias93  
...and I went and try by myself, then

[CT14 2,486]

Good idea. It looks like the stairs were constructed using two parts which scale independently in this case...

As far as using other models, making them a dependency of your package and crediting their authors seems to be the way to go.

[T Wrecks 10,210]

@CT14: Well, there's your problem: You don't just reference the old models. You distribute an altered version of them. It's no use downloading deadwoods' original models because they would just sit there unused. All you need is deadwoods' rescaled models, and these cannot be found in the original upload. In this particular case, contacting the BSC team on SC4D and asking for permission may be the best short-time approach, but in the long run... well, this ties into the licensing/availability discussion we've had about the SC4 community in general.

@matias93: Now that's a smart idea! I never would have thought of that, but of course you're right - it would make perfect sense to have half-height versions. In many cases, this will result in proportions being very obviously out of whack, but in the case of these parks, I think it might just work.

[f3cs 1,063]

I just said something that works with the same problem in the BRT Project. Is there any way to change height of the old models to make them look (and be) lower? That includes another discussion too, they really should be lowered? In my cities, there's space for L1 and L2 development and I use then equally, specially in bumpy terrains.

[MissVanleider 1,851]

Nice that it works so well, would be fab if you could get permission to do this, otherwise we will all have to just tweak our private versions i suppose 

[rsc204 21,866]

You don't need permission to redistribute modified S3D models like this. Provided you link back to the original dependency for the textures, it's fine to do this. This has been a well established principle for a number of years. Because the S3D models (for normal BATs) are not an actual model, it's simply a LOD or rectangle, you are not re-distributing another's work as such. How you mod them will affect the feasibility of doing this though. If you are looking to simply override the original, that's super easy, just grab the 20 S3D files for each model, split them from the rest and you have an override. If you need unique instances, that's trickier, but it can be done:

When you use model tweaker, you affect the model itself. Since your new exemplars, even with new IDs, still reference the same model (via RTK property), changes will affect all instances of the model. You can't release modified FSH files without the authors consent, but you can release modified S3D files. There is a neat way to link a modified S3D file to the original FSH files, here's how:

1. Open the file containing the model you want to change in the reader.
2. Find the particular model you want to use, it will have 20 S3D files and 20 or more FSH files, the Group ID is what ties them together, you can ignore the Type/Instance #'s.
   For prop mega packs, this is no fun. The easy way, is to click Navigator at the top. Then props should be under "Object". Once you've found the object you want, right click it and select "Synchronise". The main reader view will goto the prop exemplar for this model. If the file has the prop exemplars separate from the models, you may need to find it manually using the GID (Group ID) specified in the RTK property of the exemplar though.

3. For each group of 20 S3D models you want, right click and select "Add to patch".
   You can do this multiple times whilst finding each model in a given DAT.

4. When you've got them all (not a bad idea to copy the Prop Exemplars too at this stage), click on Patch at the top.

5. Create a new DAT containing only the items you need.
   It can help a lot at this point if you have a spreadsheet with the names and RTK IDs as a reference.

6. For each group of 20 models, change the Instance ID of the S3D files so that the first 0 becomes a 1 (up to F for subsequent copies, max 15 with this method).
   The format of Instance IDs for S3D models is usually 00030XYZ (Day) and 00038XYZ (Night):
   • Where X = Zoom 0-4 (1-5)
   • Where Y = Rotation 0-3 (N/S/E/W)
   • Where Z = Unique number for each texture, since some zooms may need more than 1

7. Now you just need to alter the corresponding RTK IDs to match your changes and generate new group/instance IDs for the prop exemplars.

Now you are armed with a unique copy of the model, but it links to the original textures. To understand why, click on the MATs tab, with an S3D file selected. Select a texture in the list, see how you can set the TGI of this texture, it still has the old texture ID, you should not change this. If you make a model smaller, it's the LODs that map that texture, so whatever adjustments made to your unique S3D will be applied to the original textures on this new model.

A good example of this is the file "Girafe_Bikes_T21 Prop Pack.dat" inside my SAM 7 mod, assuming you install the T21 mod. I've taken the original models and made two duplicates of each which are offset, one forwards, one backwards. In combination with a family and T21s, randomly it will display either the Front, Middle, Rear (or using the property Prop Random Chance - NOTE: Must be RTK4 prop - nothing at all). This makes them flexible and stops their arrangement from looking or too similar / creating patterns.

A small note of caution here. In theory you can change all the first three proceeding 0's using this method. Honestly, I've never needed more than a few copies so never tried. But if you change the group ID, or in other circumstances my memory is fuzzy on, they won't reference the correct FSH files. This is why I stick to this method, since the likelihood of these ID's being used is very low. There is no way to reserve ID's for S3D files sadly, so you have to try it in the knowledge that should a conflict be brought to your attention, you may need to simply alter the ID's once more. But just incrementing one more time should be sufficient. Also, I've yet to run into such a problem myself.

Lastly, some models (thankfully very few) are linked via the Instance ID not the Group ID, it's like the setup of group and instance is switched around. If you come across such models, have fun with that . I'm not sure if this method would work in such a case.

For personal use, you could save a lot of bother and just copy the FSH files as well. But I wouldn't, you have to re-ID the FSH files, then also alter the ID for every texture in the Mats tab, which is a PITA. After a couple goes with this method, you can churn them out in no time. You are free to release them, linked to the original dependency for the textures. Plus you have no redundancy (copies of the same textures with different IDs) hanging around in your plugins folder, win-win-win I believe .

[Fantozzi 4,068]

*Deleted* (became needless with the post of @rsc204 above).

[T Wrecks 10,210]

@rsc204: Dude, you're a one-article-at-a-time Wikipedia! I'm going to have to save posts like these...

[Edvarz 1,985]

I was about to link to the thread where @rsc204 explained to me that very same thing he just posted here... hmmm... maybe it should be an Omnibus article!

[rsc204 21,866]

42 minutes ago, Edvarz said:

hmmm... maybe it should be an Omnibus article!

It's from a PM to Simmer from a while back, I realised after typing such things a few times it pays to save certain things, so when asked, I just copy paste it once more. However, this is one of those that comes up often enough, I'll see about putting it on the Omnibus as there is obviously demand for it.