Too many metro trains

[enchant 2]

Ok, now that I'm starting to dabble with metro, I've got a problem, and didn't find any solutions with searches.

I've got a few metro lines set up, but I see that there are now a lot of trains backed up, waiting go get to their stations.  Each train is carrying only a few passengers if any.  Is there a way to reduce the number of trains running?  Is it via budget?

[Turjan 1,048]

You can reduce funding, yes. That will decrease the amount of metros per line.

Otherwise, use mods. The IPT mod lets you set more passengers per vehicle (the mod defaults are fine) and directly decide on how many vehicles you really want to run. There's also the new Vehicle Unbuncher mod that lets you have better flow of the vehicles, as they won't come all at once to the same station like in the vanilla game.

[enchant 2]

Good to know.  I'll drop the budget.  Thanks!

[BlakeMW 84]

I never have trains back up with default funding, but I always avoid sharing platforms. If you have two lines share a platform (on the same side), you WILL have trains back up. So instead of sharing station/track, I place two stations side by side and let cims walk between them.

  Edited October 11, 2015 by Grater  

[Turjan 1,048]

Btw, there are enough double-track stations available, even elevated ones.

Trains always back up in the game. If you have even one vehicle go above nominal capacity, it will stay much longer in the station than when not. This means that all other trains will slowly line up behind this train or bus, until all trains of buses come always in one bunch.

[Linoa06 1,374]

Btw, there are enough double-track stations available, even elevated ones.

Trains always back up in the game. If you have even one vehicle go above nominal capacity, it will stay much longer in the station than when not. This means that all other trains will slowly line up behind this train or bus, until all trains of buses come always in one bunch.

This is actually a real life principle so probably not a flaw, though it takes a high capacity and loose signalling to really notice (usually in the form of bus bunching). in fact I remember the MTA releasing a video explaining just how it all works and what they can do to prevent it. Some mods can help unbunch trains though because the base game just doesn't care, though it's a bit of a different problem but it can combine too.

50 percent budget for a car-dependant city is more than enough even for buses.

Also, try not to put too many lines on the same platform, though this is eased up if you use mods like those already listed. There are mods that add transfer stations.

  Edited October 12, 2015 by Linoa06  

[Turjan 1,048]

This is actually a real life principle so probably not a flaw...

True. However, it's usually not that bad that all buses on the line come in one single bunch. Usually, one bus just takes over at a stop where nobody wants to leave (or the first bus just waits for it) and takes the load off the very busy one. The subway in the city I lived the longest in my life had a 90 second interval without fixed schedule in rush hours, so it was hard to notice. Regarding the game, the Vehicle Unbuncher mod is really good. You can use less trains, though you may need more than you thought, as more people tend to use public transport if they don't have to wait for ages.

Also, try not to put too many lines on the same platform, though this is eased up if you use mods like those already listed.

I never put more than two lines on a station platform, and only if one of those lines has a sparse schedule. Otherwise, I use multi-platform stations. With buses, it's a bit different, but I may use both sides of the train station to split the traffic somewhat.

[Linoa06 1,374]

Well I wish two buses could use one stop at the same time if they have the space for it, because sometimes I've got ridiculous buses waiting in line for something to happen, especially in heavier traffic (though moving stops around works wonders, too). I know CO can program something like that because it happened in at least CIM1. 

[hbn 244]

Dropping the budget does really help. Rarely do you need it set above 100% on metro or trains. I find 75% is enough to suffice but even that can bottleneck a system that has a habit of having two trains turn up at the exact same time. Usually I limit my routes to two (or three) lines max. Any more and I build an additional station next door and use the height tool to split them and allow track switching.

Buses are worst off for it though, most stops can fit two buses in but only lets one use it and other times the latter one blocks off traffic. The timing of the buses that the game sends them out also means you end up almost having two empty buses following each other on the same route. It'd be nice if Paradox (or atleast Traffic ++ or one of the other wonderful traffic mods) allows a more sensible timing.

[Turjan 1,048]

Buses are worst off for it though, most stops can fit two buses in but only lets one use it and other times the latter one blocks off traffic.

Yeah, I'm not sure why they didn't stick with the CiM2 situation, where always 2 buses could use the same stop at the same time (and CiM1 as well, as Linoa mentioned).

It'd be nice if Paradox (or atleast Traffic ++ or one of the other wonderful traffic mods) allows a more sensible timing.

I linked Vehicle Unbuncher further above, which does exactly that. It's supposed to get integrated into the IPT mod later on.

Edit: Vehicle Unbuncher has now been integrated into IPT.

 

 

  Edited October 13, 2015 by Turjan  

[BlakeMW 84]

I absolutely never share bus stops, I can't remember why I decided to instigate that policy in my cities, but my buses run really smoothly with the no sharing bus stops rule. I run +50% bus budget and follow two rules: Bus lines never share stops, buses always turn right. There is minor bunching, buses tend to go around in groups of 1-3 or so, but on a route with 15 buses I don't find that a big deal.

[Mr_Maison 2,426]

I just use trains and make isolated lines away from the regional tracks the same way I would build a metro/subway or bus route. And now that we have elevated stations, it's a lot less painful nowadays. You can also use Advanced Vehicle Options http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=442167376 to control what trains will spawn and use Improved Public Transportation http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=424106600 to control how many trains run on your lines as well as which models.

  Edited October 13, 2015 by Mr_Maison  

[ethansprang 41]

Agreed about never sharing a stop. In part, that'e because I shouldn't be running lines that overlap like that. Lines that cross perpendicularly will have corresponding stops on around the corner from each other.

Another reason is that the stops get can get clogged if you have too many buses, so if one line is bunched up it would spread thru the bus network very quickly.

I never use budget control for buses.  I use IPT to control bus lines, so my peak services will try to have one bus just approaching a stop as the previous is leaving, without actually waiting to enter.  Otherwise, I can't clear the stops of passengers on the busiest lines, and they get tired of waiting and switch to cars.

 

[Ltw 401]

I have a separate tunnel for every metro-line. It is expensive but in my experience I earn it all back because people use it a lot. This way you could make it really efficient. I do this by using the IPT-mod discussed earlier. Setting the perfect number of trains is kinda difficult because it also depends on the distance between stops. Trains stop for some time at every station, this means that if you have a lot of stops at varying distance from each other you could use relatively less trains per stop. For instance, if I have line with 12 stops of which there are 8 stops very close to each other and 4 stops very far from the other stops I might be able to only use 6 or 8 trains. This could cause some congestion because the trains from the stops that are far away are catching up on the trains in the other stops, since the trains are always waiting for some time at every stop you could get congestion if you have a lot of trains going through the same line. However, if you have a line with 12 stops that are at the same distance you might be able to use 12 or even 14 trains for that same line. Next to that it is also important to think about the distance between the stops in general. If the stops are far away from each other you might be able to use more trains per stop. However, it is also a little bit trial and error in this case.

Furthermore it is important to avoid terminus-stations in the middle of your line as much as you can. I use two end-stations for every line, this makes it easier to set-up the number of trains perfectly. If you have to set-up a terminus-station in the middle it takes some more effort to get the right number of vehicles on your line. I usually go to transportation-view and see what happens if I decrease or increase the number of trains. Most of the times it is roughly around the number of stops but that also depends on the distance between the stops.

Another thing I do when building metro-lines is using tunnels to connect every line to each other. I don't use these tunnels for the lines themselves but just for trains to return to their station. Since I use separate tunnels for every line this is kinda important in my case. I want to avoid trains that are out of use (for instance because it is night and the daytime trains are returning to their stations) driving around and congesting everything. I do this by connecting different tunnels at places they are close to each other. For instance at multi-track stations or at places the tracks cross each other (at different heights of course).

I know this system might be a little bit extensive and it might be too expensive in some cases (when I decided I wanted to do it this way I almost went bankrupt) but for me it is absolutely worth it. Now I see that I can build any metro-line I want in the same way because my city income is quite high in general and I will earn back the costs over time with the metro-line itself.

[Linoa06 1,374]

I have a separate tunnel for every metro-line. It is expensive but in my experience I earn it all back because people use it a lot. This way you could make it really efficient. I do this by using the IPT-mod discussed earlier. Setting the perfect number of trains is kinda difficult because it also depends on the distance between stops. Trains stop for some time at every station, this means that if you have a lot of stops at varying distance from each other you could use relatively less trains per stop. For instance, if I have line with 12 stops of which there are 8 stops very close to each other and 4 stops very far from the other stops I might be able to only use 6 or 8 trains. This could cause some congestion because the trains from the stops that are far away are catching up on the trains in the other stops, since the trains are always waiting for some time at every stop you could get congestion if you have a lot of trains going through the same line. However, if you have a line with 12 stops that are at the same distance you might be able to use 12 or even 14 trains for that same line. Next to that it is also important to think about the distance between the stops in general. If the stops are far away from each other you might be able to use more trains per stop. However, it is also a little bit trial and error in this case.

Furthermore it is important to avoid terminus-stations in the middle of your line as much as you can. I use two end-stations for every line, this makes it easier to set-up the number of trains perfectly. If you have to set-up a terminus-station in the middle it takes some more effort to get the right number of vehicles on your line. I usually go to transportation-view and see what happens if I decrease or increase the number of trains. Most of the times it is roughly around the number of stops but that also depends on the distance between the stops.

Another thing I do when building metro-lines is using tunnels to connect every line to each other. I don't use these tunnels for the lines themselves but just for trains to return to their station. Since I use separate tunnels for every line this is kinda important in my case. I want to avoid trains that are out of use (for instance because it is night and the daytime trains are returning to their stations) driving around and congesting everything. I do this by connecting different tunnels at places they are close to each other. For instance at multi-track stations or at places the tracks cross each other (at different heights of course).

I know this system might be a little bit extensive and it might be too expensive in some cases (when I decided I wanted to do it this way I almost went bankrupt) but for me it is absolutely worth it. Now I see that I can build any metro-line I want in the same way because my city income is quite high in general and I will earn back the costs over time with the metro-line itself.

Don't some mods space the trains evenly? 

  Edited November 8, 2015 by Linoa06  

[Ltw 401]

Don't some mods space the trains evenly? 

I think there are. The vehicle-unbuncher does the roughly the same. However, when I started I didn't have this mod and even now I have it (since it is included in IPT) I still like to control the number of vehicles more extensively. Even if you have those mods there is a certain limit. The vehicle unbuncher for instance sets a certain minimum distance between trains. If the distance is shorter the train waits until the distance is big enough. However, if you have a line with stations at varying distances from each other this could have some limitations. A train brakes and accelerates and therefore has different speeds through the whole line. If you don't set up enough trains the train might wait too long because the next station is within the maximum distance the vehicle-unbuncher sets. If you have a lot of trains this might lead to congestion because trains aren't traveling at the same speed at every part of the track and could therefore catch up with the next train.

However, even though there could be some limitations it is still very nice to work with. I also use it at some lines and I'm quite satisfied with that. However, it is also important to keep issues like distances in mind while setting up the number of vehicles for your metro-line.

[Linoa06 1,374]

Don't some mods space the trains evenly? 

I think there are. The vehicle-unbuncher does the roughly the same. However, when I started I didn't have this mod and even now I have it (since it is included in IPT) I still like to control the number of vehicles more extensively. Even if you have those mods there is a certain limit. The vehicle unbuncher for instance sets a certain minimum distance between trains. If the distance is shorter the train waits until the distance is big enough. However, if you have a line with stations at varying distances from each other this could have some limitations. A train brakes and accelerates and therefore has different speeds through the whole line. If you don't set up enough trains the train might wait too long because the next station is within the maximum distance the vehicle-unbuncher sets. If you have a lot of trains this might lead to congestion because trains aren't traveling at the same speed at every part of the track and could therefore catch up with the next train.

However, even though there could be some limitations it is still very nice to work with. I also use it at some lines and I'm quite satisfied with that. However, it is also important to keep issues like distances in mind while setting up the number of vehicles for your metro-line.

Yah, not particularly happy with the very simplistic simulation, especially after Cities in Motion 2. (Feels a bit like a return to CiM, which wasn't always brilliant)

[Turjan 1,048]

The vehicle unbuncher for instance sets a certain minimum distance between trains. If the distance is shorter the train waits until the distance is big enough. However, if you have a line with stations at varying distances from each other this could have some limitations. A train brakes and accelerates and therefore has different speeds through the whole line. If you don't set up enough trains the train might wait too long because the next station is within the maximum distance the vehicle-unbuncher sets.

True. I get those waiting times prior to a curvy track section, which results in low speeds in that section. I actually told the modder that using time instead of distance would be better. He does not think so.