Looks like the Crown has been passed....

[Cool_Z 1,547]

I really like how those agricultural maps look. We're still far from real farmland but it's something.

[chocolate_city 93]

Really it just depends. While I do give CSL credit for having some breathtaking shots at various angles, I think that if you were to pit a CSL screenshot taken at the same angle as the SC4 camera against a screenshot from SC4, one could reasonably argue that SC4 was better looking. Besides, SC4 has night time mode (frankly, I thought that was ubiquitous, so CSL really surprised me there). It's not like I use it while playing or anything, it's just there for screenshots.

 

Comparing the games is difficult. No matter how much of a lasting titan SC4 is in the city building genre, it doesn't change the fact that we're comparing an isometric game from 2003 with a full 3D game (that would make my computer spontaneously combust if I tried to play it) from 2015. The way I look at it, the two games have their own specialties...

 

SimCity4

I look at SC4 as more of a hobby or diorama type thing. It's for building photo-realistic shots of planned out cities (perfect for CJs). That's pretty much my indirect way of saying that actually playing the game for the sake of playing the game sucks. I love SC4 but I'll be perfectly honest, the simulation stinks in countless ways. Thankfully we have mods to fix that to an extent (like the NAM for instance.... practically fixed a broken game). SC4 is for building appealing cities rife with variation of all kinds: roadways (NAM / SAM / RHW / NWM), buildings (I think it's blatantly obvious that SC4 has more variation in it's buildings), automata (The base game had some decent vehicle variation, and all of the subsequent car packs have really made it great), and foliage (the base game had a few kinds of trees, but modders have really taken advantage of MMPs). SC4 is for meticulously building a big pile of eye-candy (intended as a compliment! ).

 

Basically, SC4 is for building realistic shots with superior texture and modeling quality (I learned about the modeling quality thing when Heblem took their old SC4 Home Depot model (which had polygons numbering in the hundreds of thousands if I remember correctly), and having to reduce the quality of it significantly so it would run in CSL. To those who keep dishing it out against SC4's isometric presentation, it has its pros. Since the game is really just showing you a picture of a model instead of a full-fledged 3D model, it can load far more buildings at a higher quality level with significantly less computer power.

 

As a closing argument, if CSL has so many mods, why can't it do this? You can't possibly tell me that none of these shots look at least mildly realistic.

(Click each for full size)

Whoa! Night time! Totally new concept!

 

 

Just the average mosaic shot. Since SC4 is isometric, mosaics are possible since everything is viewed from the same angle. That's the problem with full-3D.

 

Frankly I don't know what's so special about this image. It seemed to be liked a lot when I posted it originally so I thought I'd toss it into the mix.

 

Now, I can't defend SC4 on every point though...

 

Cities:Skylines

Don't get me wrong based on what I said above. I think CSL is a great game with a boatload of potential. It's certainly a full replacement of SC2013 (which if the trailer for CSL is anything to go by... that was their goal). I'm not entirely sold on its replacing SC4, but i think it could at some point in the future. The way I look at it... it's too soon to say it's "replaced SC4." CSL as been out for a month and SC4 has been out for 11-12 years now. It's more fair (to an extent) to pit it against SC2013 (although CSL totally beats that game in every way).

 

From my point of view, Cities:Skylines succeeds more than SC4 does at truly being a "game." I see people talking about the ups and downs of actually playing CSL's simulation. SC4's simulation pretty much stinks in comparison; I ceased caring about SC4's simulation many many years ago. I replaced that with meticulously building a moderately functional diorama-type city in SC4. CSL appears to be, sans some faults here and there, a very good game with a good simulation. It has some breathtaking low-angle shots (provided they are far enough away from buildings to hide the rather low texture quality) that SC4 can't compete with.

 

All in all I think that someday, when the painfully bright colors are done away with and when computers are powerful enough to handle better textures and such, the game could take the torch from SC4.

And it only took 12 years to get that way.... now there is a game that could possibly be everything SC4 was and more in less time than it takes to talk about, and that's what is amazing to me..... and the pictures above look moderately realistic, but lifeless... just my opinion of course...

[Fearlessmayor 44]

aaahhh what a weekend with no simtropolis, and then this morning nothing doing

well, that gave me a chance to do some playing around with the 'filters' on SC13.

I know there's a debate going on around here about the graphics sc4 vs sc2013 vs CSL and now that i have some gaming experience with all three, I noticed sc13 is really a great game, and I like it.  I'm not a huge fan, but it's a good game.  I might even make some cities and CJs in the game, after all, in CJs we like to show off our best work and I'm pretty happy with what I can do in the small city space in SC2013, despite its size. 

I don't quite understand the negativity surrounding sc2013, and I wanted to get your thoughts on some graphic comparisons, for me graphics are a big part of me enjoying the game.  I know CSL isn't on par with SC4 as far as the "realism" in the buildings go, but what about SC13?

SC13 has 20 filter options. I took a few snapshots from one of my own cities. 

 

my personal favorite is the Warmer filter because it adds to the realism of the city. 

but, if you wanted to, you could play with the Neutral filter or Cooler filter on:

One of the things I liked most about SC4 graphics were the realistic, detailed buildings - esp the police, fire station, the hospital, the victorian mansions and high-rise brick apartment buildings and modders have done a lot of great work building cool-looking landmarks to the game.  Thought I'm still a little attached to the SC4 buildings, I think sc13 did a great job improving them for the next decade of city-building gamers.  What do you think? Would you pass the torch of best graphics onto SC2013 over SC4?

[Cool_Z 1,547]

Someone posted this on reddit :

 

 

He said he used no mods... and I didn't spot custom assets...

 

 

Of course the SC2013 shots look nice, but you won't be able to do what we see here, because about each second of this video covers about the size of the whole SC2013 map.

[rsc204 21,866]

I know there's a debate going on around here about the graphics sc4 vs sc2013 vs CSL and now that i have some gaming experience with all three, I noticed sc13 is really a great game, and I like it...

I think it gets a hard time because people wanted a 3D SC4, Maxis went another way entirely but ultimately the size of the maps was always going to be a killer. I think if they'd improved this one aspect they might have stood a chance, that said I believe the sales figures should make it a success compared to CS/SC4 it did very well for such a niche genre. The problem is there isn't so much to do, what made SC4 great was a lack of limitations, not the opposite, if you fill a city in a few hours, what's to keep you coming back after 20?

...I don't quite understand the negativity surrounding sc2013, and I wanted to get your thoughts on some graphic comparisons, for me graphics are a big part of me enjoying the game.  I know CSL isn't on par with SC4 as far as the "realism" in the buildings go, but what about SC13? 

No doubt it's a pretty game, the buildings are more polished and detailed than CS by a long margin, in fact the Cites XL series also gives some very beautiful screenshots and 3D landscapes too, but I think of them all, SC2013 is probably the most polished in that regard.

I can forgive CO/Paradox for cartoon graphics, they simply didn't have the resources to make things any other way, look at most serious SC4 players, they've all ditched any of the original content that either doesn't fit their game or look good without harming the experience. In some ways I actually like the more fun than realism side to it, whilst it doesn't appeal to the inner-nerd who is fine tuning every detail (i.e. not playing a game), it certainly doesn't have to be a bad thing either.

I've played games from the Atari 2600 through to the modern HD stuff, a good game is a good game (tank/biplane anyone?), graphics be damned. Sure I can appreciate when something has good graphical fidelity, but I can't enjoy a crap game just because it's a pretty one either.

[QuantumChicken 89]

I do like C:SL, especially flooding my city with massive water displacement, or creating a structure with 2 billion noise pollution and 32000 radius thus causing deaths by the thousands, however, I personally think SimCity 4 Digital Edition will be my main city simulator. I was a victim of a rare bug in C:SL that causes my households to be 0/0 on which the dev team cannot reproduce. There are only 2 others on the paradox forums that got hit by it too, so it is unplayable for me now.

[Fearlessmayor 44]

I know there's a debate going on around here about the graphics sc4 vs sc2013 vs CSL and now that i have some gaming experience with all three, I noticed sc13 is really a great game, and I like it...

I think it gets a hard time because people wanted a 3D SC4, Maxis went another way entirely but ultimately the size of the maps was always going to be a killer. I think if they'd improved this one aspect they might have stood a chance, that said I believe the sales figures should make it a success compared to CS/SC4 it did very well for such a niche genre. The problem is there isn't so much to do, what made SC4 great was a lack of limitations, not the opposite, if you fill a city in a few hours, what's to keep you coming back after 20?

right.  I can totally see SC4 fans wanting a full 3D sc4, which SC13 certainly wasnt.  however, you might recall SC2003 was not exactly an upgrade of Sim City 2000 - it was just a prettier, and more colorful version of Sim city 2000 -- and then after SC2003 we got a really great game larger maps, more buildings, realistic graphics.....I feel like there are two types of sim City players, the ones who like the fun game who are in it to play, build, destroy (meteor, alien invasion, tornado) a city of their own, and the ones who are the nerdy fine-tuning city-builder, like the ones you mentioned above, who want to define every nook and cranny of their city -- want it to look like their dream cit(ies).  I think maxis has done a great job so far catering to both audiences, and I'm secretly waiting for the real Sim City 5 =)

I do like C:SL, especially flooding my city with massive water displacement, or creating a structure with 2 billion noise pollution and 32000 radius thus causing deaths by the thousands, however, I personally think SimCity 4 Digital Edition will be my main city simulator. I was a victim of a rare bug in C:SL that causes my households to be 0/0 on which the dev team cannot reproduce. There are only 2 others on the paradox forums that got hit by it too, so it is unplayable for me now.

that's terrible! I would think the company would send you another copy for free if you  can't even build on the maps??

[rsc204 21,866]

right.  I can totally see SC4 fans wanting a full 3D sc4, which SC13 certainly wasnt.  however, you might recall SC2003 was not exactly an upgrade of Sim City 2000 - it was just a prettier, and more colorful version of Sim city 2000 -- and then after SC2003 we got a really great game larger maps, more buildings, realistic graphics.....I feel like there are two types of sim City players, the ones who like the fun game who are in it to play, build, destroy (meteor, alien invasion, tornado) a city of their own, and the ones who are the nerdy fine-tuning city-builder, like the ones you mentioned above, who want to define every nook and cranny of their city -- want it to look like their dream cit(ies).  I think maxis has done a great job so far catering to both audiences, and I'm secretly waiting for the real Sim City 5 =)

Actually after finding the original on the SNES and playing it intensely I naturally picked up a copy of SC2000 when it was released. However, at the time I never really could get into it, it felt so much more complex than SC and I guess back then the internet wasn't full of handy pointers like it is today. However, I did enjoy SimCopter way too much and played that a heck of a lot. Years later after a nasty car accident I was holed up for a few weeks with a laptop that wasn't really up to much in terms of gaming, it ran SC2000 well so I finally started to unravel it. But I got to a point where I felt there wasn't a whole lot more to do and that was that, excepct breif laughable attempts to play on a 320x280 pixel Windows Mobile device with a 3" screen. Actually, now I remember I had the original SC for the Psion Series 5 organiser, that was suprisingly playable.

Anyways, the point here is that frustrated with 2000, I simply never got around to 3000 and by the time of SC4 I guess it was just totally off my radar. The build up around SC5 led to me trying out SC4 in 2012/13 and I've been kicking myself ever since for not having noticed sooner. I spent two years writing game reviews (a long time ago) and worked for 5-6 years in the industry and one of the things I can never understand is why games must all be blockbusters or bust these days? I know it costs a lot to develop say GTA, but if Collosall Order proved anything to EA it's that the budget can be managable whilst still making a sucessful game. I suspect in EA's mind SC5 is a failure, that speaks to the closure of Maxis and all that's gone thereafter. In that sence I think you can forget ever seeing a new SimCity, but I agree with your reasoning that there is a lot from SC5 that could be built upon in a new title. If EA thought they'd get more than the 4.something million sales for SimCity they did, I simply don't know what they were thinking. But it seems to me that 4 million + copies at $70 a time should give you ample oppertunity to make a profit, sadly economics are behind the closure of so many of the great stuidios, if one game doesn't sell then you're toast.

that's terrible! I would think the company would send you another copy for free if you  can't even build on the maps??  

Well I suspect whatever is causing the bug, if a clean re-install didn't fix it won't likely be resolved with a new copy. I suppose in theory they'd offer a refund if you wanted it, but hey that's pretty good that they are looking into bugs affecting a tiny handful of players. I know for sure where I worked that a bug needed to be much, much bigger than that before anyone cared.

[Fearlessmayor 44]

Someone posted this on reddit :

 

 

He said he used no mods... and I didn't spot custom assets...

 

 

Of course the SC2013 shots look nice, but you won't be able to do what we see here, because about each second of this video covers about the size of the whole SC2013 map.

nice video =)

yah, the SC4 vs SC13 vs CSL debate is a tough one.  sc4 is on old game technology, sc13 was made for the average computer user (hence, developer made maps and small city space no sea ports and no subways ), and CSL's graphics are on the weak end. sadly, I feel none of these games has what serious city builders want, but there's one game out there who's developers and fans are still working on BATing and MODing for and that's CSL, so its the obvious choice to go with CSL.  it has the most potential right now. adjusting for the learning curve, it's not a bad game for city builders.  but as a SC4 gamer, I feel like I need a little more time to test it to its full potential and maybe it'll fully grow on me 'cause I'm not going back now.  =)

  Edited August 8, 2015 by Fearlessmayor  
needed to add stuff

[Cool_Z 1,547]

I don't think that CSL's graphics are "on the weak end" as you say

 

All it misses is a good antialiasing, just add the ambient occlusion mod and the game already looks much better. If you have a good gpu I think the game looks very pretty.

[rsc204 21,866]

Well I'd disagree on the "good" GPU, personally 170€ (what I paid for mine) should be in the good range, for the sort of oomph to push the Ambient Occlusion mod you'll be needing something pretty high end.

That said the graphics aren't inherently bad, but the quality of the textures of the buildings certainly lands more on the side of cartoonish-fun than realism. I don't have a problem with this so much, I do accept the limitations of a small dev team in this respect, not to mention I can see how in future this will be overcome as the community release better buildings.

But there is a huge caveat here, to really make a city with buildings that shine and do justice to the game itself will require a ridiculous spec PC, my PC is no cheap slouch but is already at the limit running skylines with a handful of mods and a reasonable size city (100k +). Just look at the limit on poly counts for models that's needed to keep the game in check, I think we are a very long way from PCs that could handle such a game with high quality detailed models throughout.

[cmdp123789 710]

I keep reading about graphics, and settings, and everything.. but at the end of the day, the games are appealing in different ways, to different type of players. If you are into building different roads in different angles, and the type of engine the skylines offers, then that's your game.

If you are, on the other hand, on realism and graphics, then sc4 will do it.

I love how you can build "freely" in skylines, although sometimes you are also limited by the game, but at the same time, I hate the cartoonish look.. it's something that I just can't stand.

In a way, I believe that as content is released for skylines, people are gonna like it more, but if you ask me, I don't think skylines is the actual replacement for simcity 4... See sc4 is a classic right now, skylines isn't. Skylines was made to compete to sc2013, and it won, but that doesn't mean it also overtook sc4.

[TekindusT 3,809]

Classics need time to become classics. SC4 has had 10 years of advantage in front of CSL. It's like discussing whether "Inglorious Basterds" can be considered a classic as "Pulp Fiction". Both are awesome movies, but one is a classic and the other may be too early to call it so. Only time will tell.

[cmdp123789 710]

Classics need time to become classics. SC4 has had 10 years of advantage in front of CSL. It's like discussing whether "Inglorious Basterds" can be considered a classic as "Pulp Fiction". Both are awesome movies, but one is a classic and the other may be too early to call it so. Only time will tell.

Exactly my point. Only time will tell.. Who knows, maybe in 2 years from now we will see a new release.. maybe from another company.. for now, CSL still needs 10 years to achieve what simcity 4 did, then, we will talk again.

[rmjohnson144 42]

I do like C:SL, especially flooding my city with massive water displacement, or creating a structure with 2 billion noise pollution and 32000 radius thus causing deaths by the thousands, however, I personally think SimCity 4 Digital Edition will be my main city simulator. I was a victim of a rare bug in C:SL that causes my households to be 0/0 on which the dev team cannot reproduce. There are only 2 others on the paradox forums that got hit by it too, so it is unplayable for me now.

I helped a guy fix the 0/0 issue.  It was just a asset/mod issue.  Normally most all issues are mod/asset related.  That's why devs can't replicate them.

Anyway, here's the link to the thread if you wish to investigate your city further.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/population-issues.851604/

[QuantumChicken 89]

I do like C:SL, especially flooding my city with massive water displacement, or creating a structure with 2 billion noise pollution and 32000 radius thus causing deaths by the thousands, however, I personally think SimCity 4 Digital Edition will be my main city simulator. I was a victim of a rare bug in C:SL that causes my households to be 0/0 on which the dev team cannot reproduce. There are only 2 others on the paradox forums that got hit by it too, so it is unplayable for me now.

I helped a guy fix the 0/0 issue.  It was just a asset/mod issue.  Normally most all issues are mod/asset related.  That's why devs can't replicate them.

Anyway, here's the link to the thread if you wish to investigate your city further.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/population-issues.851604/

The weird thing is: a friend of mine uses the same mods/assets I do and he has no such issue.

[Mr_Maison 2,426]

Classics need time to become classics. SC4 has had 10 years of advantage in front of CSL. It's like discussing whether "Inglorious Basterds" can be considered a classic as "Pulp Fiction". Both are awesome movies, but one is a classic and the other may be too early to call it so. Only time will tell.

Exactly my point. Only time will tell.. Who knows, maybe in 2 years from now we will see a new release.. maybe from another company.. for now, CSL still needs 10 years to achieve what simcity 4 did, then, we will talk again.

CSL don't even need 4 years....maybe even less. Look at the mod development so far at such an early stage. Back in 2003, we were barely moving on from dialup modems. We did not have as many 3D artists or good 3D software for free on the internet either (Blender was like rocket science back then). These times are different with a lot more resources than SC4 had in it's early years.

  Edited August 18, 2015 by Mr_Maison  

[rmjohnson144 42]

The weird thing is: a friend of mine uses the same mods/assets I do and he has no such issue.

It really doesn't matter what he has, you have the problem and he may not have hit a trigger that caused it yet.  When you figure it out you can pass it along to him.

I just noticed you seem to be one of the posters in the other thread as well. I think it's unfair to say it's a, "bug in C:SL" and you not seemingly try to resolve the issue.  So far all the bugs I've encountered so far have all been mod/asset related.

I wish you luck in resolving it soon, so you can continue your game you no doubt spent many hours building.

[QuantumChicken 89]

It really doesn't matter what he has, you have the problem and he may not have hit a trigger that caused it yet.  When you figure it out you can pass it along to him.

I just noticed you seem to be one of the posters in the other thread as well. I think it's unfair to say it's a, "bug in C:SL" and you not seemingly try to resolve the issue.  So far all the bugs I've encountered so far have all been mod/asset related.

I wish you luck in resolving it soon, so you can continue your game you no doubt spent many hours building.

Yes, I agree, it was not fair, but I am oblivious to many things, that was one of them. Anyhow, I am going to delete/unsubscribe from all them assets and start anew. Right now a friend of mine got me playing Final Fantasy XIV, so it will be awhile before there is any news about the 0/0 issue.

[chocolate_city 93]

After downloading a city from a player from Steam (whose name will remain anonymous) and opening it up in the game, I was so completely unimpressed by the graphics and how the city was arranged that its unfortunately turned me off this game for awhile... I'm now convinced that the crown has not been passed, and that its only being held hostage...

[idcaf 65]

After reinstalling simcity 4 and starting a new game, I was completely unimpressed about 2D graphics, 700 million NAM road-pieces needed to make a semi-decent road network and random crashes that its unfortunately turned me off this game for awhile... I'm definitely convinced, that crown has been passed for me and for thousands and thousands and thousands of other people.

[ghosty20 150]

After downloading a city from a player from Steam (whose name will remain anonymous) and opening it up in the game, I was so completely unimpressed by the graphics and how the city was arranged that its unfortunately turned me off this game for awhile... I'm now convinced that the crown has not been passed, and that its only being held hostage...

Find it interesting you go from a positive this game looks awesome stance, to a negative this game is garbage stance.. All because of another persons city the whole idea of the game is to build your own not play someone elses..

But seems to be the norm with people now days with games in general that I often wonder why developers bother making games for people, because no matter how good the game they make may be people will always find something wrong with it..

  Edited August 23, 2015 by ghosty20  

[Allein 329]

700 million NAM road-pieces needed to make a semi-decent road network

Semi decent ?!

How should we call skyline's highways ramps then ?

Regarding graphics, I think a good isometric 2D, fine and precise, is much better then a blurred 3D with poly count limits..

[TekindusT 3,809]

We will all agree on the fact that highway on- and off-ramps aren't the brightest feature of C:S. But hey, do you remember the ramps on the vanilla Maxis highways?

  Edited August 23, 2015 by TekindusT  

[crishy 57]

I rather prefer the on/off ramps on vanilla SC4 than CS to be honest, yes, vanilla ramps are tight, but similar configurations can be seen around the world, mainly outside NA/EU of course.

Although to be honest the scale is off for both games, so neither are exactly realistic, hence for most of my ground level exits I just use the RIRO/European exits that come with the NAM, and just finish off with a road, looks fairly good and more or less to scale, and is simple to use too. And yes, I still use Maxis highways, they fit nicely considering my cities are heavily Asian based anyway.

  Edited August 23, 2015 by crishy  

[idcaf 65]

700 million NAM road-pieces needed to make a semi-decent road network

Semi decent ?!

(pics)

How should we call skyline's highways ramps then ?

Regarding graphics, I think a good isometric 2D, fine and precise, is much better then a blurred 3D with poly count limits..

I get where you're comming from, i haven't said CSL highways look decent at all. They're too basic and such. This topic reminds me of how Cities XL managed to get a spectacular highway mod. I loved that mod. It's 50% of the reason as to why i kept playing that game before C:SL got announced. 

After an expansion or two, maybe a highway mod for C:SL will be released. And if/when that happens and if it's at least a bit as good as CXL highway mod, NAM can just run away. 

About the graphics... high-res 2d vs low-res 3d is one of those iconic game debates, that it seldom gets pointed out how it all just depends on individuals preferences and tastes. For me, CSL graphics look great. If anything, it's the terrain and water texture, that's a bit of a problem IMO, not buildings. I grew up playing simcity2000. Crisp graphics aren't everything. 

[chocolate_city 93]

After downloading a city from a player from Steam (whose name will remain anonymous) and opening it up in the game, I was so completely unimpressed by the graphics and how the city was arranged that its unfortunately turned me off this game for awhile... I'm now convinced that the crown has not been passed, and that its only being held hostage...

Find it interesting you go from a positive this game looks awesome stance, to a negative this game is garbage stance.. All because of another persons city the whole idea of the game is to build your own not play someone elses..

But seems to be the norm with people now days with games in general that I often wonder why developers bother making games for people, because no matter how good the game they make may be people will always find something wrong with it..

Sometimes people just change their minds about things.... I thought it WAS great in the beginning, the more I played it, the LESS great it became,,, I look at all the other cities people were creating and maybe I got the tiniest bit jealous that it wasn't happening for me.... (OK very jealous). Then I downloaded a city from someone and that just nailed it for me... I don't hate the game... I don't like that my creative spark just isn't sparking when it comes CSL the way it has for other simulators,,, I do hope that will change as time goes on, but for now, it just ain't happenin' for me...  I hope that makes it little less vague about my last commentary...

[Attercap 123]

I understand you Chocolate_City : It's more or less the same for me - this game has a great potential, but actually, it's just a potential. Lot of things are missing. (trams, bigger growables, deeper mecanisms...) But I'm trying to improve the game : As vanilla buildings are lifeless, without charm, I decided to create buildings I like. ( American "1900" on Steam.)

But actually, I dont create cities. I'm "wainting." So try the game again after one or two DLC (or free patchs !)

[Judazzz 1,936]

What I'm wondering about is: what are the criteria to determine whether C:S has taken the crown? And even if we can determine those criteria, can we safely say that those are the criteria everyone uses for a comparison?
In my opinion the answer to both questions is a firm No: you cannot objectively define criteria to determine which title is better, because those criteria will always be individual: 'What is better/the best ....'-type questions are subjective by definition. So in my opinion it's a bit of a non-discussion. Even more so because we are comparing a game that has been on the market for 6 months with one that can boast 10 years of unrestricted modding: comparing vanilla C:S with modded SC4 is hardly a fair comparison (like judging C:S's unmodded graphics or roads vs. SC4's modded graphics or roads), and vice versa just as well - unless you compare both products the way they are straight from the box.

Doesn't mean we can compare game mechanics, graphics, the simulation, modding, etc., but comparing these two titles in their current state in their entireties seems a bit like comparing apples and oranges to me, not to mention futile given the subjective nature of the main question itself.

Lastly: I know the vanilla graphics of C:S are a bit cartoony and candy-colored, but with the right mods you can make it look so that it can even give SC2013 a run for its money.
To illustrate, here's one screenshot from the city I'm currently working on, straight from the game, 100% unedited:

  Edited September 4, 2015 by Judazzz  

[chocolate_city 93]

What I'm wondering about is: what are the criteria to determine whether C:S has taken the crown? And even if we can determine those criteria, can we safely say that those are the criteria everyone uses for a comparison?
In my opinion the answer to both questions is a firm No: you cannot objectively define criteria to determine which title is better, because those criteria will always be individual: 'What is better/the best ....'-type questions are subjective by definition. So in my opinion it's a bit of a non-discussion. Even more so because we are comparing a game that has been on the market for 6 months with one that can boast 10 years of unrestricted modding: comparing vanilla C:S with modded SC4 is hardly a fair comparison (like judging C:S's unmodded graphics or roads vs. SC4's modded graphics or roads), and vice versa just as well - unless you compare both products the way they are straight from the box.

Doesn't mean we can compare game mechanics, graphics, the simulation, modding, etc., but comparing these two titles in their current state in their entireties seems a bit like comparing apples and oranges to me, not to mention futile given the subjective nature of the main question itself.

Lastly: I know the vanilla graphics of C:S are a bit cartoony and candy-colored, but with the right mods you can make it look so that it can even give SC2013 a run for its money.
To illustrate, here's one screenshot from the city I'm currently working on, straight from the game, 100% unedited:

I think that 8 pages of discussion means some of us out there think there could be future passing of the crown.... but thanks for your alternative vision and input....  That's what this is all about.

700 million NAM road-pieces needed to make a semi-decent road network

Semi decent ?!

(pics)

How should we call skyline's highways ramps then ?

Regarding graphics, I think a good isometric 2D, fine and precise, is much better then a blurred 3D with poly count limits..

I get where you're comming from, i haven't said CSL highways look decent at all. They're too basic and such. This topic reminds me of how Cities XL managed to get a spectacular highway mod. I loved that mod. It's 50% of the reason as to why i kept playing that game before C:SL got announced. 

After an expansion or two, maybe a highway mod for C:SL will be released. And if/when that happens and if it's at least a bit as good as CXL highway mod, NAM can just run away. 

About the graphics... high-res 2d vs low-res 3d is one of those iconic game debates, that it seldom gets pointed out how it all just depends on individuals preferences and tastes. For me, CSL graphics look great. If anything, it's the terrain and water texture, that's a bit of a problem IMO, not buildings. I grew up playing simcity2000. Crisp graphics aren't everything. 

I think that semi-decent is a good definition of the NAM...   Building a Stack highway interchange is nearly impossible with the NAM without using tunnels and elongated ramps and hairpin turns.