Some questions on Distressed and Vacant buildings

[Tommy_H 3]

I recently bought the game from Steam, ready-patched to 1.1.641.  I am just using some fixes as per the top-10 thread, plus NAM v32. But from NAM I only installed the transportation model, the very first option from the installer.

 

In the last few days I have just been playing with the game's tutorial Timbuktu region, specifically the "Big City Tutorial" city. I exit the tutorial right away and just play with the city for some learning. After some 160 years,  I think overall I did a OK job. The city is profitable and has no garbage, (almost) no more dirty industry. Everybody is educated and healthy. Population peaked at about 52.000 and now hovers around 39 - 40.000. Affairs are basically stagnant at this point. I cannot spur much growth as C and I on the RCI meter are basically negative. I'm also running out of real estate. I think of doing it all over again or start some city at zero.

 

I do have a whacky RCI meter I can only make partly sense of despite some reading around.  I sure did rush zoning for higher densities and ended up pretty much like the OP in this thread:

 

 

Sorry for the digression, here is my concrete querry: In my city, I got lots of high-rise R$$$ buildings at some point that subsequently got "distressed" when the rich walked out of me.  How do you deal with distressed residential buildings in the best way?

 

One option could be just leave them distressed. I understand during being distressed the inhabitants still pay taxes? So all you get is just the stained visual effect, or am I  missing something?

 

Other option woutd be to bulldoze the place but DO NOT rezone and hopefully upon a rebuild they build something more sensible like R$ or R$$. I mostly did this and this worked sometimes, sometimes not as they rebuilt yet a new instance of a R$$$ high-rise.

 

Or you bulldoze AND you rezone (less dense, maybe smaller lots overall)?

 

Is there some best way to handle that?

 

And what about vacant buildings? I always bulldoze them and mostly rezone them as well. But not sure if this is the best way? Fire is not a problem in the city. I just bulldoze them to remove an eyesore and if the rich return, they can easily live in one of the many other available places.

 

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Timbuktu is a very special region designed for use as a set of tutorials.  I would suggest you don't play on it at all other than running the tutorials.  This region has been know to do a vicarious reset at the least provocation.

 

If you want a region to play and don't want a custom one, try Fairview.  It has enough stuff in it to cause you to pluck your hair out by the roots.

 

Otherwise, you could try any of the good regions that are on the STEX.  You might have rendering problems as all of them are some form of archive, but instructions generally come with each one for making the region from the parts you download.  If you have any questions in this regard, ask and we'll help you out.

[Tommy_H 3]

Thanks Nonny, very kind and helpful!

 

Alright then. I just came from playing another session of exited Timbuktu. But I guess that was the final round then.

 

As to custom regions, which ones are good?  Is there a thread of like "The Top-10 Regions" or "must-have regions?  Or could you just name a few of your personal favorites, please?  Up to 3 would be more than enough   Otherwise the choice is so vast, it's kinda hard to decide on any one. 

[.anonyman 28]

About distressed/vacant buildings:

 

The game's tendency to over-build high-wealth ($$$) buildings is now my biggest pet peeve - the brilliant modders have resolved all the other issues! When a building becomes dilapidated, it fills up with lower-wealth-level Sims. This means it still provides taxes and can have an even higher population than originally. This does balance out the simulation, so the main downside to dilapidation is the aesthetic factor.

 

To deal with the problem, you could 1) bulldoze the offending lots. But I find that the simulation is perfectly happy to replace a dilapidated building with another R$$$ lot - eternally optimistic about its chances at prosperity. You can also 2) make it less likely for rich Sims to move in (raise their taxes or deny services). In my experience, just one elementary school or clinic is enough to encourage R$$$ growth, so that's not very effective. Plus, you do need some higher-wealth residents to work at your companies (even manufacturing or C$$ need a few). And messing with the tax structure is so easy, but can lead to such headaches. So, I would recommend 3) checking the RCI graph carefully and choosing the right moment to bulldoze. With practice, you can reliably predict what developer type will rise out of the rubble. Make sure there is demand for the one type you're interested in, and consider making it historic once it does.

 

About playing on Timbuktu:

 

YMMV, but I have created several cities on the default region without any issues. I also have about 10 versions of Big City Tutorial scattered around sandbox regions. The only problem is that they all say Big City Tutorial on them, regardless of what they're called or whether other city names are displayed or not.

 

About downloading regions:

 

As you can see, I'm not the most creative player out there. When I download a new region, I usually delete it soon after because it doesn't quite fit my playing style. It's hard to make recommendations because everyone is looking for something different.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

This is a real chance to blow my own horn, so here goes:

 

 

 

 

Each of these render using the game.  The instructions are in at least one of them.  They all work the same way.

[Compdude787 916]

As to custom regions, which ones are good?  Is there a thread of like "The Top-10 Regions" or "must-have regions?  Or could you just name a few of your personal favorites, please?  Up to 3 would be more than enough   Otherwise the choice is so vast, it's kinda hard to decide on any one. 

If you go on the STEX, you can choose to view only files in the Maps category, and then when it displays the results, you can sort by "highest rated" or "most popular" to get what you're looking for.

[Tommy_H 3]

OK, excellent. Thank you all, that will all help me along the way

[mayorgreener 37]

For abandonment, this one is a must.

[Tommy_H 3]

Thank you Mayor!

 

that sounds like a useful mod, I think I understand what it does, and it makes sense.  However, i am not sure if in my particular case this mod would (much) help with "my" dilapidation.

 

See, all my R$$$ houses that get built and subsequently dilapidated are built in max-level desirability areas. I think I did "too good" of a job in providing all services to virtually the whole city and all sims. R$$ could live just about anywhere except in the one corner where the elec utilites and the waste area is.

 

At the same time, after some related reading around, I looked at my demographics and was a bit shocked how unsound they are. Roughly speaking there are 40.000 residents (population) and there are 27.000 commercial jobs and 11.000 industrial jobs (as seen in region view if you click on the city). I read that a 2:1 ratio is about right or maybe a  6 Res : 2 Com : 1 Ind ratio. So my city is horribly understaffed it seems.

 

However, if i zone residential 2x2 or bigger lots of med- or hi-dens, usually they get filled with a R$$$ building - presumably because the city is so "desiable". Then the R$$$ realize not all jobs are for senior management positions and dilapidation starts. 

 

So I think the cure for this city would be to

 

- mow down and eliminate some non-res buildings, primarily commercial where it says "low customers", I suppose

- deliberately cut services from certain areas, so they would spring R$ or R$$ houses.

- generally raise taxes for all commercials and industrials, I suppose...

 

If anybody would like to comment, please, you are most welcome. It's definitely good learning and keeps it interesting.

[jmsepe 2,038]

Avoid using demand mods. That is all I have to say, I destroyed my whole region using this. 

[.anonyman 28]

 

For abandonment, this one is a must.

 

 

Wow, how did I not know about that one! Thanks for the link. I guess all of SC4's flaws have been fixed by this awesome community.

[mayorgreener 37]

1st of all Thank you AnonyMan.

 

Now, Tommy H,

Are you using any demand mod? If yes, then delete them. 

 

How is the crime in your city? Take note if there is any water, noise & air pollution around the R$$$ homes.  Take note of the edu and health coverage of the R$$$ residential area.

[Tommy_H 3]

About demand mods, I do not use them currently, never did and never will.

 

Thanks for this reminder. I read about their evil previously. In my opinion this an area of modding appealing mostly to the brain-dead, and I am not interested in them even if I were. No... only mods I'm running are as stated in the very first post, that is fixes and NAM its transportation model only. I'm new to the game and do not want to mess royally after 4 days already.  The "Less abandonment" mod mentioned does sound sensible, but I will refrain from using it at this point.

 

As to crime and other potential issues, I have everything under control   I mean if I click on the Desirability data screen for R$$$, it shows highest level (bright green) almost everywhere, certainly more than 80% of the map. R$$ is even more green (maybe 90% - 95%).  This aspect of the game works pretty much like in SimCity 2000 which I played to death some 15 years or so ago   So I am generally familiar with the type of game and all the interactions. I also played some other builders like Pharao and Emperor-ROTMK which are not all that different in many respects.

 

It should be said that all my scribblings apply to the tutorial "Big City" played on the vanilla tutorial Timbuktu region. Which is probably easy-level and newbie-tweaked by Maxis in some ways. Nonny Moose hinted to that. So no ordinary region in any case.

 

I should probably get out of Timbuktu and apply any knowledge gained on a "normal" region (e.g. Fairview, Nonny Moose recomms... whatever).

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Rather than use the less abandonment mod, I have an abandonment policy:

 

If a lot is abandoned, downgrade the zone one level.

If an abandoned lot is already at the single occupancy level, then change to a different type.  R <-> C.

If necessary, remove the zoning or make the lot into a park or plaza.

 

Do not use the click and hold default zoning, especially for residential.  This invites premature mansions.  I usually make single occupancy R lots 2 x 1, and multiple occupancy lots 2 x 2.  Around farms, I use 1 x 1 lots adjacent to the farm itself.

 

Generally speaking I hand zone everything.  Time consuming but worth it.

 

Run in Turtle mode until you've made your nut (income > expense), then upgrade to Rhino mode.  Reserve Cheetah for quick advances for special reasons.  Running flat out in Cheetah all the time takes away some options and obscures the animations which are quite good.

[Robotica 36]

About demand mods, I do not use them currently, never did and never will.

 

Thanks for this reminder. I read about their evil previously. In my opinion this an area of modding appealing mostly to the brain-dead, and I am not interested in them even if I were. No... only mods I'm running are as stated in the very first post, that is fixes and NAM its transportation model only. I'm new to the game and do not want to mess royally after 4 days already.  The "Less abandonment" mod mentioned does sound sensible, but I will refrain from using it at this point.

 

I'm actually kind of offended by your post. I always use abandonment and dilapidation mods, but I also don't play SC4 as a game. I think a lot of people forget that there are more than 1 way to play SC4, and for a lot of people such as myself it isn't even really viewed as a game but a artistic tool to produce intricate and complex urban environments. I mean, when you think about it that sense, the games "game" mechanics are really just annoying. In reality these arbitrary game rules don't make sense and just inundate the player with problems that they have to get around. You realize that a lot of the really awesome cities you see are not functioning cities at all, usually the screenshot is all that the city is, and if you rotated the camera everything will look out of place. Some players just design for a certain zoom and rotation. 

 

Anyways, I just find it kind of annoying the way you try to make it sound like if people don't play the game the way you play it then they are just dumb and inferior in some way... Well, that's just an ignorant opinion, and not correct in the least.

[crishy 57]

If you have too many R$$$ but not enough C$$$ or high tech - or if your region has enough jobs but the game consider them too far for them - then you should either create more jobs close to where the buildings are, if that is possible, like by plopping downloaded C$$$ buildings; or especially prevent R$$$ buildings from popping up for a while by increasing taxes, demolishing them, or making $ and $$ buildings historical to prevent them from being substituted in lieu of R$$$.

 

If you have downloaded R$$$ growables then you could either avoid zoning configurations (you can control the zoning by using CTRL so you can get very large one block zones though the zones may still occasionally break up after) that lead to their appearance, if that is possible or there is no redundancy, and vice versa for downloaded $ and $$ buildings.

 

Worst case scenario you can download a mod that allows people to work in residential areas (10% 25% and 100% I believe) especially useful if you are creating low density suburbs.

 

Increasing desirability or the threshold at which such buildings appear as stated above could be useful as well.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

This program is so open ended that there are probably as many ways to play as there are players.  Once the initial learning curve is passed, one can do whatever one likes. 

 

A review of some of the City Journals will show the different artistic tastes of many players.  I don't have that kind of creativity, being more of a logical than artistic person.  Still, I enjoy running the game even after 12 years, but what I do is mud-pies compared to more accomplished players.

 

However, I am particularly enamoured of coast lines.  This is probably because I am a yachtsman and owned sailboats for over 30 years before I sold the last one in 1990.  One of my "hobbies" was teaching sailing and boating safety.  I have probably taught about 100 people individually to sail, including my entire family.  My son was one of the youngest to ever get a restricted maritime radio operator's license.  I am a past commander of my squadron in CPSS.

 

Looking back on that last paragraph, I realize that while I was doing that, I was also active in other civic and charitable affairs at the same time.  It has been a rather full life so far.