NAM: Development

[Tropod 144]

It's about time I explain these pics.





Firstly, sorry to get everyones hopes up (for those that may have), but these pics aren't quite what they might seem unfortunately.
Here is what's actually happening pathing-wise;



While in this state, as shown in the pics, it does not allow for car commuters, but it is interesting to note that the Residential zones can indeed sustain development without any 'real' access to at least one job before hitting the bridge. That is, the 'No Roat Zot' nor the 'No Job Zot' appear. Without the bridge there though, car commuters can indeed use the stretch of road going eastwest (technically it's not all road though. more on this below).

The Technical aspect;
The coding for this;

CellLayout =.......
CellLayout =aAAAZcCellLayout =....^..

CheckType = a - road: 0x00020000,0xffffffff optional
CheckType = A - subway: 0x00020002,0x00ff00ff optional
CheckType = c - road: 0x00000002,0xffffffff optional
CheckType = Z - road: 0x00020002

Obviously this is only a portion of it.
When the RUL calls on the flags, it's calling on the Subway RUL & then using the Subway RUL referenced IID for the given flags for the tiles. So basically this is cheating the game . Now this in itself allows for both Car & Pedestrian commuters as already mentioned earlier. When I had initially saw this occur, I did actually think I'd pull it off, but alas not quite. The unfortunate aspect is when the bridge overhead is built (or nearly anything else for that matter). The underneath actually has to be built first & the bridge overhead must be in the middle section, & while all the tiles, upper & lower, in the picture are actually valid (which is the hardest part), they're not all valid for 'car' pathing (which is the 2nd hardest part). Overall it is also very unstable with the game. So in short, at this time it is not something that will be supported.
While this is obviously short of what we're all wanting, it is a step closer & is a bit of an eye-opener. I feel this is something that'll definately be in the next incarnation (of SC) for sure.

[GoaSkin 2]

I am trying to create a rural style GLR piece with a diagonal junction. I am tired now but there are two bugs to solve I cannot find now

- transparent backgrounds appear black
- on the switch only one arrow is shown but trains use both directions

If somebody want to fix this, please download my patch here (needs developer version)

The files start at 0x580EE000.

[ardecila 124]

For the black background - you must turn alpha check on in the S3D Mat tab.

As for the arrow - Path files are your specialty, man. I can't help you there. I can barely write one myself.

[GoaSkin 2]

In the material prefs, all five checkboxes are marked. It does not help. The model is cloned from another puzzle piece with transparency and just the texture has been changed.

Regarding the paths, there is something an mistake and I am looking over the file since hours and cannot find it.
Pathing works but UDI-junction switch has only one arrow; nothing happens when pushing the red button. It's always switched to the straight rail.


SC4PATHS
1.2
8
8
1
-- Eltrain_1_2_b
6
2
1
2
0
2
-2.9,8,0
8,-2.9,0
-- Eltrain_1_2_a
6
1
1
2
0
6
-3.2,8,0
0.606,6.042,0
0.172,4.184,0
3.01,2.444,0
4.464,0.839,0
8,-2.9,0
-- Eltrain_2_1_b_J
6
2
2
1
1
2
8,2.9,0
2.9,8,0
-- Eltrain_2_1_a_J
6
1
2
1
1
6
8,2.9,0
7.292,3.668,0
6.374,4.658,0
5.532,5.714,0
4.770,6.830,0
4.095,8,0
-- Pathing for Rail-based UDI_1_2_b
3
2
1
2
0
2
-2.9,8,0
8,-2.9,0
-- Pathing for Rail-based UDI_1_2_a
3
1
1
2
0
6
-3.2,8,0
0.606,6.042,0
0.172,4.184,0
3.01,2.444,0
4.464,0.839,0
8,-2.9,0
-- Pathing for Rail-based UDI_2_1_b_J
3
2
2
1
1
2
8,2.9,0
2.9,8,0
-- Pathing for Rail-based UDI_2_1_a_J
3
1
2
1
1
6
8,2.9,0
7.292,3.668,0
6.374,4.658,0
5.532,5.714,0
4.770,6.830,0
4.095,8,0
-- Stop_Eltrain_b_1_2
1
6
2
1
2
4,1,0
-- Stop_Eltrain_a_1_2
1
6
1
1
2
4.464,0.839,0
-- StopUK_Eltrain_a_1_2
2
6
1
1
2
3.82337,7.12355,0.0
-- StopUK_Eltrain_b_1_2
2
6
2
1
2
4,4,0
-- Stop_train_b_1_2
1
3
2
1
2
4,1,0
-- Stop_train_a_1_2
1
3
1
1
2
4.464,0.839,0
-- StopUK_train_a_1_2
2
3
1
1
3
3.82337,7.12355,0.0
-- StopUK_train_b_1_2
2
3
2
1
3
4,4,0


Edit: The other arrow of the switch is not missing, it follows the straight diagonal path too (green over orange). I don't know why it does not follow the other path leaving the tile on the same side.

[Tropod 144]

This is what the paths looks like;



If you haven't got it already, I would strongly recommend obtaining cjmarshall pathing tool:
(this url should still be valid. I've just d/l it again to make sure)
http://website.lineone.net/~dscdm/Files/PathTools/Path%20Tools011104.zip
Be sure you read the included ReadMe file before attempting to use it though, as you may need additional (Windows-based) files in order for the program to work.

The thread for cjmarshall pathing tool, for any info;
PathTools - Simple SC4PATH Viewer/Manipulator

EDIT; forgot about the other stuff. As for the item you're having problems with; it is not just the five Flags boxes, but all the items in the MATS tab for a given Texture. The FSH file itself though also plays a part in it. Try the following;

alpha test: select
depth test: select
backface: select
framebuffer blending: deselect
texturing: select

Alha Func: greater
Depth Func: less than or equal
Scr Blend: one
Dest Blend: zero
Wrap Mode U: repeat
V: repeat
Magnif. filter: bilinear
Minif. filter: bilinear, no mipmapping

Again, the format of the FSH file itself can have a bearing on this. It may require slight variation from what I have suggested.

[GoaSkin 2]

The path is right and the switch works. Trains pass the puzzle piece using the right paths in all directions. The only bug is the arrow in UDI mode. Both appear straight and one overlapps the other.

I know path-tools but it does not work well on my system. I can use the tool just to rotate paths but it does not illustrate anything. When I rotate paths, it removes the points in the values and I have to set them manually after rotating.


I am using pathtools, iLive and FishMan with a JIT-compiler on Mac OS X. I neither have a PC here nor Windows (I have here a G4-Mac and a Sun Solaris Workstation). The usability of this three programs is restricted; LOT-Editor, GMAX and BAT are not usable for me and I never have used these tools.

[Tropod 144]

I've not been able to D/L that link in your post above (the 0x580EE000 one). Something wrong with the www.yousend.com server or something...........

Send me the file(s) & I'll have a look at it.

[GoaSkin 2]

OK there are three different settings:

- framebuffer blending is selected
- Src-Blend: src alpha
- Dst-Blend: one minus src alpha

I copied the settings from another PP-S3D with transparent backgrounds. I have really to go now and will look later on it.

[ardecila 124]

OK. I would turn framebuffer blending off, since it uses quite a bit of memory, but it's your funeral.

[GoaSkin 2]

After Tropod made changes on the path-file, the switch-arrows of my GLR junction are well-positioned but nothing happens when pushing them.

Edit: I realized that the junction-switching does not work on any GLR puzzle piece (Smoncrie's junctions have this bug too and I didn't realize that before).

@Tropod: With your model settings, the textures show black instead of transparent backgrounds like before. May there something be wrong with the texture itself? I imported into FishMan for each texture

- one PNG file with transparent background (transparency became black)
- one BMP file (two colors) using black on transparent parts and white on colored parts (as alpha MAP).


I saved it as type-3 FSH and imported them via iLive, re-indexed them, cloned a model from a GLR puzzle piece with transparency by Smoncrie and changed the mat-ID.

[smoncrie 43]

Goaskin, maybe you have something installed that conflicts with the GLR mod because the GLR left and right junction pieces do switch correctly in UDI.  The only problem is that sometimes you can not see the junction switch arrows if the puzzle piece is plopped on slopping ground.

[Tropod 144]

I must admit, I've not actually tried those lightrail Junction pieces in-game, & I've never really taken much notice of it. So UDI for them obviously works then. Good to hear.

Now, for a little something..........
The below referenced URL contains a zip file relating to the attempted (re)texturing of the OneWayRoad bridges that currently exist as part of the NAM. Not all of the onewayroad bridges have been retextured though. So if someone (anyone) would like to take this on by all means go right ahead. A lot of what's needed has already been done.
There's a readme included which explains things better. Note though, that it is a DevRelease Version & is not really intended for general use at this time (it'll most likely be included in the next NAM release, all onewayroad bridges retextured or not).


NAM OneWayRoad Bridges Retexture files

[GoaSkin 2]

Date: 5/27/2005 2:20:09 PM
Author: smoncrie
Goaskin, maybe you have something installed that conflicts with the GLR mod because the GLR left and right junction pieces do switch correctly in UDI. The only problem is that sometimes you can not see the junction switch arrows if the puzzle piece is plopped on slopping ground.

quote>


Or it does not work on the Macintosh version. Simcity1.DAT is not the same like on the Windows version. I have no traffic-plugins installed except the NAM, my addition file and the Euro-texture-set. Possibly the puzzle pieces works on other game installations. I will now create the right junctions and release a new BETA.

[Tropod 144]

GoaSkin; this may sound silly of me to ask, but is your game left-hand or right-hand version? That is; do the cars drive on the left or the right hand side of the road?

[GoaSkin 2]

right-hand. Australia and Canada is AFAIK left-hand.

[Tropod 144]

Well that should EDIT; not be causing any problems then (just thought I would make sure).

It would seem a bit odd that something like, something specific like this, wouldn't work for Mac version but would work for pc version .

With the texture stuff you're having problems with; send the files & I'll have a look.




For all;
Regarding the next version of NAM; I would like to set a cut-off date for newerly created custom content, so that a preliminary version can hopefully be released solely for testing purposes to weed out any minor/major bugs/problems (considering the changes undertaken this really needs to be done). From which we could continue from in one way or another. Something in the order of the following weekend.

[Elforion 0]

Date: 5/27/2005 3:44:46 PM Author: GoaSkin right-hand. Australia and Canada is AFAIK left-hand.

quote>

 

 

In Canada, just like in Europe in the US, they drive on the right.

[GoaSkin 2]

OK... then, the problem has nothing to do with the traffic-handling.

The simcity1.dat of the Mac version includes not the changes coming with the latest RH-update by Maxis. It is based on the version before and the distributor for the Mac version (Aspyr) is not going to release the update. Apart from that, there is slightly different content but I have not realized any difference in the game behavior. There is a bugfix to prevent game crashes if hovering puzzle pieces over transit-enabled lots (if hovering, the cursor appears beside) but sometime this work-around does not work - mostly with 1x1-tiles only. I think this workaround is hardcoded and no setting in sc1.dat. If the UDI-behavior on el-railways is a platform difference, it's the first I know.

[Tropod 144]

Aspry not doing a RH-Update? what the......I don't have a Mac, but that's still a kick in the guts! . Is there any chance that they had incorportated the RH Update with the release of RH?

As for PuzzlePiece:TransitLot Cursor crashing bug; I highly doubt Aspyr has implemented any sort of bugfix for this (if so, why not fix other items Maxis had fixed?). There's a reason some 1x1 PuzzlePieces 'appear beside' a Lot & not over it, it is partly because of how an items CheckType lines is structured & the TransitLots themselves. There's a thread in the R&D forum that discusses the bug (though admittedly it doesn't go into great depth).

I think for the time being, just path them best as can & come release time see how people go with them. Maybe then might have more of an idea of what the problem might be exactly?

[GoaSkin 2]

Puzzle pieces (highway intersections) do not appear over a lot if there is enough space around to show it beside the cursor. In a tight area, this works only for small puzzle pieces because they use a bad algorithm to find out a suitable side-position.

I think Aspyr did not realize that this bug is coming from the Windows version. I think they tested the Mac-port, found this bug and wanted to fix it. This kind of workaround seems to be a quickie and no real bugfix.

[Teirusu 38]

Here's a little experiment I was working on just before getting involved with the 2x2 roundabout.  I'll just let these images explain... 

 

Stretch of ground highway and ANT Network...

 

https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/files//Image.jpg align=baseline>

Hmm... What could that be I'm dragging?

https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/files//Image2.jpg align=baseline>

By George!  It's ANT Network! 

https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/files//Image3.jpg align=baseline>

 

[Teirusu 38]

And this...?

It's ANT too!  But did I replace the ANT Network current textures...?

Nope! 

 

Muhahaha!  Neat, huh?

[frimi2 0]

Tell us the trick, Mr. Copperfield

[Teirusu 38]

But the question is... does it work?

 

 

 

Yes, I believe it does.    How did I do it?  A surprising small handful of lines in the RuleOverrides file and uncommenting/editting a section of code that Tropod added in the Rul 0x10000001 file.  I basically use the ruleoverride file to detect the texture coming off the ground highway-to-ANT then replace the normal ANT straight pieces dragging from it with my custom one.  I also added the ability to detect two stretchs of ANT that are next to each other and replace the textures accordingly.  The result is that ground highway clone you see in my second post.

 

-Teirusu

[GoaSkin 2]

I found out what's wrong with the transparency on my diagonal junction pieces:

The S3D-models I cloned to be used with the textures by Pitero weren't usable to show alpha layers. This has another reason than the material settings.
I cloned now the models from a rural puzzle piece by Smoncrie. There, a setting is used that the used textures appear rotated by 180

[Shadow Assassin 336]

That's good, but it doesn't quite match the existing highway texture...

[Swamper77 90]

Date: 5/28/2005 10:52:39 PM Author: Shadow_Assassin That's good, but it doesn't quite match the existing highway texture...

quote>

That's because the S3D models brighten the textures somehow. And the roadway in the highway models is slightly above ground level.

-Swamper77

[jeffsu28 0]

I want to share this site with the development team.  http://www.kurumi.com/roads/interchanges/index.html

It has an extensive list of all sorts of interchanges.

[Tropod 144]

-------------------------------------------------
For Developers;
(A reminder+)
Prior to next weekends scheduled public release of a DevVersion, a private Dev Version needs to be sent out before this happens. So anything that's currently being worked on, please be sure to send the files once you've concluded most/all of the work for whatever it is you're working on. Obviously the sooner this is done the better. If you have any concerns, don't hesitate to PM/Email me.
-------------------------------------------------

At this point in time, the next version will see the integration of the following;
NAM & its updated items
Ground Light Rail Mod
Avenue Turning Lane Project
Road Roundabouts

[Shadow Assassin 336]

At this point in time, the next version will see the integration of the following;
NAM & its updated items
Ground Light Rail Mod
Avenue Turning Lane Project
Road Roundabouts

quote>

Hmm, will they still be kept seperate from the NAM, so we can have optional components and such?