Windows Corner

[MandelSoft 2,769]

The birth of Windows 8 is a bit premature. Microsoft hasn't figured out a way to integrate PC and tablet OS yet.

Noooooo, really? There are more things that make it a failure:

• Integrating two UI systems (Desktop and Metro) in one system. Bad idea, particularly in terms of consistency and clarity.
• Removing basic features present in previous Windows versions, mainly the ability to window applications (Metro apps cannot be windowed) and the freakin' "Start" button (and ditto menu).
• Failing to recognise that a lot of PC users won't switch to touch screens anytime soon (due to the "gorilla arm"-effect) and didn't tailor the Metro UI for usage with mouse control.
• Unclear interface rules in the Metro environment.
• Unclear locations of some basic tools, like the "shut down" button or the Control Panel.

That all accounts to Windows 8's failure...

[mrsmartman 200]

 

The birth of Windows 8 is a bit premature. Microsoft hasn't figured out a way to integrate PC and tablet OS yet.

Noooooo, really? There are more things that make it a failure:

• Integrating two UI systems (Desktop and Metro) in one system. Bad idea, particularly in terms of consistency and clarity.
• Removing basic features present in previous Windows versions, mainly the ability to window applications (Metro apps cannot be windowed) and the freakin' "Start" button (and ditto menu).
• Failing to recognise that a lot of PC users won't switch to touch screens anytime soon (due to the "gorilla arm"-effect) and didn't tailor the Metro UI for usage with mouse control.
• Unclear interface rules in the Metro environment.
• Unclear locations of some basic tools, like the "shut down" button or the Control Panel.

That all accounts to Windows 8's failure...

 

Agree.

Microsoft needed to take Windows 8 into the market asap for their tablets and touchscreen notebooks to compete in the marketplace. Despite that Microsoft had done much R&D on tablets in the early days, they were a bit late in launching a marketable tablet. They were in a hurry to get Windows 8 to market. That's why the OS were far from perfect.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Actually, the haste to market was probably driven by the need for income and the belief that the PC market was about to die.  Someone at Microsoft blotted their copy book and deserves a big fat zero as their annual bonus if they remain employed.  You can bet that decisions of this type are not taken lightly and that a lot of management persuasion was required. 

 

I expect considerable hierarchical exfoliation in that company soon as several of the management team have clearly reached their Peter Principle level.  The interesting thing to follow will be the lateral arabesques.  And if some people don't understand this, read "The Peter Principle" by Laurence J. Peter.  It is one of the better works on the inner workings of big outfits.  It is also hilarious.

 

There is also a faint possibility that the whole company has reached Peter's Pretty Pass.

[mrsmartman 200]

To predict if one can do a job well is difficult but the performance of the current job is pretty observable.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

To predict if one can do a job well is difficult but the performance of the current job is pretty observable.

There is only one standard: Do it right the first time.  Doing something over because it is defective is often beyond the funds of any outfit.  Nothing can retrieve a mess like Windows 8 from the garbage bin of history.

[mrsmartman 200]

 

To predict if one can do a job well is difficult but the performance of the current job is pretty observable.

There is only one standard: Do it right the first time.  Doing something over because it is defective is often beyond the funds of any outfit.  Nothing can retrieve a mess like Windows 8 from the garbage bin of history.

 

Microsoft simply don't have the amount of resources, time and people, to roll out a perfect Windows 8 in time.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

 

 

To predict if one can do a job well is difficult but the performance of the current job is pretty observable.

There is only one standard: Do it right the first time.  Doing something over because it is defective is often beyond the funds of any outfit.  Nothing can retrieve a mess like Windows 8 from the garbage bin of history.

 

Microsoft simply don't have the amount of resources, time and people, to roll out a perfect Windows 8 in time.

 

In which case they shouldn't have rolled it out at all.  The people in their marketing force are now definitely eligible for termination.  Perhaps what they should have done was to roll out the metro interface only for tablets and phones and found a different name.  A PC is not for hybridization, and the W 7 platform would be kept them going.  They could have had a UEFI update to 7 for people with large disks.

[mrsmartman 200]

 

 

 

To predict if one can do a job well is difficult but the performance of the current job is pretty observable.

There is only one standard: Do it right the first time.  Doing something over because it is defective is often beyond the funds of any outfit.  Nothing can retrieve a mess like Windows 8 from the garbage bin of history.

 

Microsoft simply don't have the amount of resources, time and people, to roll out a perfect Windows 8 in time.

 

In which case they shouldn't have rolled it out at all.  The people in their marketing force are now definitely eligible for termination.  Perhaps what they should have done was to roll out the metro interface only for tablets and phones and found a different name.  A PC is not for hybridization, and the W 7 platform would be kept them going.  They could have had a UEFI update to 7 for people with large disks.

 

As I have said before, I believe the decision was made by some very senior leaders in Microsoft. Why bother adding the metro feature to Windows if it is not for some grand vision of their management?

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

If that's grand vision, everyone should divest their shares.  I did years ago.

[Ocram's Razr 963]

The thing is, there are now many computers other than smart phones and tablets with touchscreens. There are ultrabooks, convertibles, touch-screen laptops, touchscreen tables, and even 20-30 inch Full HD (or sometimes 4K) touchscreen all-in-one desktops and monitors. You will soon be hard pressed to find high-end and mid-range monitors that are not multi-touch enabled just like most people have difficulty finding 32 bit PCs. All CPUs (besides things like the Raspberry Pi) support 64 bit and computers with 32 bit Operating Systems can utilize 64 bit ones when they add extra RAM. Touchscreens are the way of the (immediate) future and soon will come in a variety of sizes and positions so most people will be able to find a comfortable use for them.

All that said, my point is that Windows 8 is an operating system designed for touchscreens and touchscreens are getting more common and affordable. The old-fashioned PC users might have been put off by Windows 8 and some of the more advanced users might now prefer linux, but Windows 8 is very user friendly, especially for those with touchscreens but is still usable without one.

--Ocram

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

The problem with the metro interface is that it seems incomplete.  How do you kill a process?  How can you start more than one process?  Can you have processes in windows?  What tools are available to examine the process(es) that are running?  A PC is capable of complex multiprogramming and multitasking.  How is this supported by the metro desktop?

 

Touch screens cost extra.  I see no point in having one when I've been mouse-oriented all my life.  I am willing to bet that there are fewer touch screens on PCs than there are those that are untouchable.  Every touch screen device for a PC should have a built-in mouse interface if they want it to sell well to the existing market.

[MandelSoft 2,769]

With touch screens, you always have the "Gorilla Arm"-effect. This all has to do with the following aspects of the screen:

• Angle of the screen: for most touch screen devices, the screens face upwards, usually from the lap of the user. PC screens usually face forward, right into the face of an upright sitting user.
• Distance to user. Usually PC screens are not really in range of the arm of the user, or at the far end. Mobile devices with touch screens are usually closer to the user.
• Size of the screen. Most touch screens are small enough to be controlled by simple finger swipes. PC screens are often quite large and you have to move your arm quite some distance over the screen.

Due to this fact, you have to reach out your arm quite far with such a PC touch screen, and the weight of your arm is really going to count then. Your arm gets tired pretty quickly. This is why I believe why we won't get en masse touch screen monitor PCs soon...

 

Best,

Maarten

[Cyclone Boom 16,875]

I thankfully managed to avoid the Windows 8 era, and personally I'd never prefer a touchscreen over a mouse. In my opinion, they're only useful on PCs as an extra feature, not as a replacement. I think the only incentive is for the sake of convenience. Say if you're on the train, you may wish to preform basic tasks (news, email). In this case, a touchscreen might well come in handy for brief periods. But in the desktop environment, there are severe drawbacks. If you're frequently at a workstation, it's not good practise to continuously reach at a vertical screen. As MandelSoft pointed out, it'd likely result in a repetitive strain injury.

 

That's where Windows 8 has fallen short of the general market's needs. If mobile interfaces are only practical for casual use, they shouldn't be marketed as the USP, but optional for those who wish to use them.

[Sabretooth78 808]

With touch screens, you always have the "Gorilla Arm"-effect. This all has to do with the following aspects of the screen:

• Angle of the screen: for most touch screen devices, the screens face upwards, usually from the lap of the user. PC screens usually face forward, right into the face of an upright sitting user.
• Distance to user. Usually PC screens are not really in range of the arm of the user, or at the far end. Mobile devices with touch screens are usually closer to the user.
• Size of the screen. Most touch screens are small enough to be controlled by simple finger swipes. PC screens are often quite large and you have to move your arm quite some distance over the screen.

Due to this fact, you have to reach out your arm quite far with such a PC touch screen, and the weight of your arm is really going to count then. Your arm gets tired pretty quickly. This is why I believe why we won't get en masse touch screen monitor PCs soon...

 

Best,

Maarten

 

Everything nowadays is geared for consumption.  However, many of us prefer to engage in things more intensive than facebooking and angry birds.  What about production?  The desktop PC/laptop dock with monitor(s) isn't going anywhere.  I can't imagine doing my job on a touchscreen - talk about misery.  I have enough difficulty doing precision work with a mouse or trackpad sometimes - I can't fathom how mashing a screen would constitute any improvement in workflow.  If anything, maybe this weeding out of the PC "bandwagoners" (the consumers) will leave behind a market of better quality for the more demanding, the producers and enterprisers among us.  Dare to dream.

 

Apple is complicit in this trend as well, if not being one of the prime initiators of it.  Now it pervades just about every major hardware and software outfit.  Of course, to bring it back to Microsoft, need I mention "the Ribbon".  As it relates to Excel, the single largest slap in the face to power users of any software anywhere.  Where one click on a customized toolbar can be replaced by 5 clicks and it's considered an improvement.  Fortunately, OpenOffice reminds me a lot about what Excel used to be.

 

You can have your SC2013, I'll keep my SC4.   

 

 

I thankfully managed to avoid the Windows 8 era, and personally I'd never prefer a touchscreen over a mouse. In my opinion, they're only useful on PCs as an extra feature, not as a replacement. I think the only incentive is for the sake of convenience. Say if you're on the train, you may wish to preform basic tasks (news, email). In this case, a touchscreen might well come in handy for brief periods. But in the desktop environment, there are severe drawbacks. If you're frequently at a workstation, it's not good practise to continuously reach at a vertical screen. As MandelSoft pointed out, it'd likely result in a repetitive strain injury.

 

That's where Windows 8 has fallen short of the general market's needs. If mobile interfaces are only practical for casual use, they shouldn't be marketed as the USP, but optional for those who wish to use them.

 

 

When my wife and I were looking for her new laptop we looked at a few touchscreens but we weren't impressed.  Our biggest hangup?  You get smudges on the screen - personally I don't like even the smallest visible mote of dust on the screen.  And then they try selling you screen protectors, which IMHO cause more damage than they're worth.  Yeah, let's make the screen less tactile and also hurt the visible resolution.  "No protector" still looks better than an HD protector, I don't care what anybody says.

 

But then again, all the time you see people wearing glasses covered in facial oil and fingerprints and apparently not the least bit fazed.  I don't get that.  I probably never will.  I try not to waste time thinking about it.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

There was a song a few years ago that was quite catchy.  The chorus was:

 

Somebody goofed .. somebody goofed!

Oh, we don't know who it was but

Somebody goofed.

[Ocram's Razr 963]

I have seen touchscreens that lay flat on a desk and accept input from styli and I have read articles about how it is healthier to stand up and use a vertical touchscreen. That article said that humans were not meant to sit down for long periods of time. Anyway, a stylus is far more accurate than a mouse. Using your fingers or trying to touch a screen at an odd angle would worsen the experience.

--Ocram

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

in the 19th century most workers stood at their desks.  Somehow, that practice seems to have gone away.  In any case, what's wrong with a mouse?  Near as I can tell, it is not broken, so why fix it?

[Sabretooth78 808]

I'd love to have the option to stand during the day.  Unfortunately, enter modular workspaces, the bane of all humanity.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

You've noticed?  The office carrel is the bane of many's existence.  However, a screen embedded in the desk would be unhelpful without a stylus, so you might just as well have a mouse.

[Ocram's Razr 963]

in the 19th century most workers stood at their desks.  Somehow, that practice seems to have gone away.  In any case, what's wrong with a mouse?  Near as I can tell, it is not broken, so why fix it?

The practice of standing at desks has gone away because the USA sets the standard and Americans are lazy. Also, it is pretty much necessary to sit in order to use a keyboard or typewriter.

 

 

A mouse is not very accurate. Have you ever tried drawing with a mouse? Have you ever tried tracing a circle with a mouse? Also, most touchscreen stylus models utilize multiple pressure recognition, allowing one to write or draw extremely accurately. I have tried to sign my name with a mouse but a stylus is practically as good as a pen (and more useful when combined with the right screen and computer).

 

--Ocram

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

The touch screen is definitely not for everyman.  Most people are not artistic.  Artists have used bit pads since before the introduction of the PC.  This is clearly a retrograde advance insofar as desktop equipment is concerned.  To make such gear a default is a grave marketing error.

 

It is very wrong to consider a technology for hand-held equipment for such a purpose.  Gorilla arm indeed!

[MandelSoft 2,769]

A mouse is not very accurate. Have you ever tried drawing with a mouse? Have you ever tried tracing a circle with a mouse?

 

For these kinds of purposes, we have vector image editing programs, which can be used to make some quite accurate drawings. Especially for maps, vector images are really nice:

 

You would never get this accuracy with hand-drawing. And this is all done by just using the mouse and keyboard...

 

And if you want to hand-draw, why not use plain old pen and paper? You can always scan the image for colouring...

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Amen.

[mrsmartman 200]

 

Windows 8 commercial on the 1 train from South Ferry to Uptown & The Bronx via 7 Av Local.

 

Windows deserves more than a corner.

[Ionic-Elm 13]

Unfortunately, I think Microsoft will stick by Windows 8/Metro, making Windows 9 a failure too.

 

We'll see though, maybe it'll be like 7 where they took the bad stuff out of Vista and added some decent stuff in.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

:kitty: Well, let's see what they could do for an encore:

 

They could change the start up so that the Metro desktop only appeared on systems that actually had a touch screen;

 

They could try changing the file system to something a little more modern and less prone to losing things;

 

They could start offering a real virtual memory system with full segmentation and paging now that the hardware has had it for at least 10 years;

 

Or they could just carry on, regardless and continue to slowly lose market share. :kitty:

[Ionic-Elm 13]

You're right. I may switch to Linux anyway, now that I have a video card that is actually supported well (I used to have an AMD which has horrible Linux support on their graphics cards, at least  the APU I had).

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

My AMD chip set isn't supported by AMD on Linux.  It is ably supported instead by Gallium, which is in its infancy, but certainly supports anything I've tried.  I think when this little gem is finally out of the release candidate stage it will be very nice indeed.  Currently Gallium 0.4

[Compdude787 916]

 

A mouse is not very accurate. Have you ever tried drawing with a mouse? Have you ever tried tracing a circle with a mouse?

 

For these kinds of purposes, we have vector image editing programs, which can be used to make some quite accurate drawings. Especially for maps, vector images are really nice:

 

[snip]

You would never get this accuracy with hand-drawing. And this is all done by just using the mouse and keyboard...

 

And if you want to hand-draw, why not use plain old pen and paper? You can always scan the image for colouring...

 

You can definitely make some nice stuff with Inkscape. That's a nice map, Maarten!

 

I've drawn maps on paper for years, and there's not much wrong with that. Although you can't get such straight lines and smooth accuracy, drawing maps on paper is fine.

[Blade711 24]

I have a shaky hand, drawing is impossible for me, especially with circles. If I even draw one, it comes out looking like Minecraft with circles.

 

Anyway, I have this problem. My desktop is not hibernating automatically even though I set it to hibernate at 30 min. of inactivity. I leave for piano lessons, come back an hour later, and still no hibernation kicking in. The monitor is off though; I set the screen to shut off after 3 minutes. I have no idea what's causing it to not hibernate.