Query tool information on the Industrial buildings

[Sims21 2]

On the SimCity 4, there are two query arrow tools, one that shows where the cars and pedestrian transfer to and from work, and the other query shows how many jobs are available in the building.  I noticed when I used the query tool to find out information about the Industrial building, I go over a building and it says (Freight and Workers none), but I clicked on the other query arrow tool, and it says (8/10 jobs) on the same building?

 

Also on the other information I used the query tool that gets information over an industry building it says Workers Car:124, but I used the other query tool and it says 7/13 Jobs.  What's the 124 cars out of 7/13 jobs?  Can someone answer the two questions if you understand what I mean, this only happens on the Industrial buildings not on residential or commercial.

[jmsepe 2,039]

Are you using the NAM? I suggest try getting it.

 

The truth is, that is a bug in industrial buildings. In the long run, the amount of cars going to factories and such will decrease to the point that when you query, you can only see freight trucks. In the later part of the game when the city gets to be more developed, the majority of the jobs will be on commercial edifices than those in the industrial and etc (civics and such). 

 

For the commercial, there might be something wrong with the equilibrium of your residential population and commercial jobs. I too when placing a commercial office that has 5k jobs in a city with 1k sims will show the same thing. I'm not really sure what the problem is but I don't actually mind it. As long as the building don't go abandoned then there is no problem with that. 

 

Cheerios! 

[Prophet42 1,503]

The 8/10 jobs you are seeing is the actual number jobs that are available for the building.  In your example, the maximum number of jobs the building can provide is 10.  Under current conditions it can only provide 8.  When you use the route query, and see 'No workers', that actually means there is no body working at the building, even though 8 jobs are available.  What you need to do is either zone some residential closer to the building or build a mass transit station near the building.  Otherwise it is just sitting there not providing jobs but somehow magically producing freight.

 

For your second situation, one block of industrial is considered one facility.  So in that one block you may have several industrial buildings.  The total available jobs are summed up from all the buildings.  For example, if you have two industrial buildings next to each other and one has 10 jobs and the other 15 jobs, the simulator sees this as one 'building' with 25 jobs available.  That is why you see more people coming to your industrial site than just one building is providing.

[Turjan 1,048]

By the way, this is nothing to worry about. Try to keep a people to jobs ratio of 2:1. Those empty jobs will be filled as soon as they are needed.

[jmsepe 2,039]

The 8/10 jobs you are seeing is the actual number jobs that are available for the building.  In you example, the maximum number of jobs the building can provide is 10.  Under current conditions it can only provide 8.  When you use the route query, and see 'No workers', that actually means there is no body working at the building, even though 8 jobs are available.  What you need to do is either zone some residential closer to the building or build a mass transit station near the building.  Otherwise it is just sitting there not providing jobs but somehow magically producing freight.

 

For your second situation, one block of industrial is considered one facility.  So in that one block you may have several industrial buildings.  The total available jobs are summed up from all the buildings.  For example, if you have two industrial buildings next to each other and one has 10 jobs and the other 15 jobs, the simulator sees this as one 'building' with 25 jobs available.  That is why you see more people coming to your industrial site than just one building is providing.

 

I'm speechless! Hahaha 

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

On the SimCity 4, there are two query arrow tools, one that shows where the cars and pedestrian transfer to and from work, and the other query shows how many jobs are available in the building.  I noticed when I used the query tool to find out information about the Industrial building, I go over a building and it says (Freight and Workers none), but I clicked on the other query arrow tool, and it says (8/10 jobs) on the same building?

 

Also on the other information I used the query tool that gets information over an industry building it says Workers Car:124, but I used the other query tool and it says 7/13 Jobs.  What's the 124 cars out of 7/13 jobs?  Can someone answer the two questions if you understand what I mean, this only happens on the Industrial buildings not on residential or commercial.

Using the standard query tool on any building doesn't give you any information on the actual occupancy or use of the building.  The ratio given of m/n shows that under current conditions the building can have m occupancy/under ideal conditions the building can have n occupancy.  This is often a misleading thing for players.

 

If you have the extra cheats dll (developers debugging aids) you can get more information using the query tool.  Activate the query tool then hold down CTRL+ALT+SHIFT and move the query tool over any building.  You get the complete debug information panel.

 

The route query tool (ALT+/) will give you the number of people working in a building or the current occupancy.

[z1 566]

The truth is, that is a bug in industrial buildings. In the long run, the amount of cars going to factories and such will decrease to the point that when you query, you can only see freight trucks. In the later part of the game when the city gets to be more developed, the majority of the jobs will be on commercial edifices than those in the industrial and etc (civics and such).

 

I haven't found this to be true at all.  I have a large city many centuries old, and it has about a million commercial jobs and a million industrial jobs.  These numbers remain stable over time.

[Indiana Joe 1,752]

Well it completely depends on how well you service your city.  Provide enough hospitals and schools, and the general wealth of residential will increase, leading to said natural job migration.

[jmsepe 2,039]

 

The truth is, that is a bug in industrial buildings. In the long run, the amount of cars going to factories and such will decrease to the point that when you query, you can only see freight trucks. In the later part of the game when the city gets to be more developed, the majority of the jobs will be on commercial edifices than those in the industrial and etc (civics and such).

 

I haven't found this to be true at all.  I have a large city many centuries old, and it has about a million commercial jobs and a million industrial jobs.  These numbers remain stable over time.

 

 

I'm not totally sure though but for my cities, when they grow big that is the case. Yep, the jobs might be there but the query tool when clicking industrial buildings will only show freight trucks and not cars.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

it depends on what kind of industrial you have and whether the skills requirements can be matched by your Sims.  Once you get to the heavy commercial stage you have to work at keeping enough R$ coming through your system to populate your industries.  A big factory will only employ a few R$$$ (three or four) and some supervisory R$$, but mostly R$.

 

With the extra cheats DLL you can check on the number of actual jobs offered by the building.  Activate your query operator (/) then holding down CTRL+ALT+SHIFT move the query operator over the building.  The panel will give you full stats without clicking.

[dkempel 3]

Does anyone know what the different numbers in the debug panel mean? I am not clear on all of them so I can't interpret the data very well.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

A good question.  I think only one of the developers can answer that.  I have always simply used what I could understand in that panel because the other stuff may have meaning only if you are developing the product.

[NCGAIO 562]

A good question. I think only one of the developers can answer that. I have always simply used what I could understand in that panel because the other stuff may have meaning only if you are developing the product.

Fortunately it will not be necessary to wait for them and think after Rip Simcity / Maxis would even be a little difficult.

 

 In fact there is a topic about it -   - Query.txt

 

  To help understanding did some images about the issues and concepts Yes grid and Tracts (properties 0x47e2c200 & 0x87cd6310)

 

Tracts tiles 4 x 4 / Development....

 

One way to micromanagement of abandonment by desirability and commute time,

 

As well as data on demand which are widely discussed by RippleJet. (Just Follow links OS)

 

 

 

 

 

  I recommend a good couch and enough coffee.

  enjoy!

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Interesting to some, perhaps.  For me it falls into 'too much information', and yes you can have too much.  Enjoy the game and don't bother about decoding every jot and tittle.  That kind of effort is for baseball fans.

[NCGAIO 562]

A good question. ..................... I think only one of the developers can answer that. ............... I have always simply used what I could understand in that panel ....................

 -      -

Interesting to some, perhaps. ............ For me it falls into 'too much information',.........................

 -- ??????????

Enjoy the game and don't bother about decoding every jot and tittle.

It should be obvious that knowing how the simulation works makes it much easier to enjoy the game without getting confused for not understanding how certain things happen.

Must be why some say the game is complicated,. Is not it?

[dkempel 3]

Thanks for the info NCGAIO

(Nice discovery!)

 

To be sure, are you pointing to the post by RippleJet where he explains the data in the query.txt ? (this post: https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=8870.msg275279#msg275279)

Because the info in the query.txt and the debug panel is not exactly the same. The numbers from the debug panel are not explained. Or am I missing something entirely?

 

Also, the link to the tract explanation doesn't work for me.

[NCGAIO 562]

...........

(Nice discovery!)

 

...........

 

Just a correction ... this is no discovery as it is widely known by all moders That's just a visual demonstration of the concept.

 

The data is about demand and you can understand more HERE

 

All this is amply explained and as I said before the contribution here is so visual demonstration to understand how everything works suggest reading the posts on the subject.

To summarize ... is the demonstration of how the simulation works to define what and where something will be developed as well as a way of knowing why the abandonment in certain circumstances ..

note: the link has been fixed.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

I've been a computer programmer since 1962 and stuff like this is sort of second nature to me.  However, I don't feel that I need to know the exact algorithms of the simulation to enjoy the results.  Without the debug library (extra cheats dll) none of this is available, but it is nice to be able to use some of the developer tools.  I don't construct BAT models any longer, but this wasn't available when I did.  I don't think my weak attempts at this would have been much changed if it were.  I simply made a few lots for proof of concept.

[NCGAIO 562]

My dear friend .... what you are saying can confuse the correct interpretation of what really discussing here.

 

It has nothing to do with exact algorithms for game coding unless you consider simple sum operations as an algorithm ..

 

If pay attention to the data displayed by the file maybe  will realize that it is just as the game get the information of desirability, which in synthesis is the motto for operating the simulator

 

Instead of being saying that Sims like it or not like  according to their wealth (as if they were alive) maybe be more useful to explain how it happens in practice.

 

Maybe by editing the text file becomes easier for understand 

 

 

 

note: Remember that the same also applies to other developers (CS, CO, ID ..)

 

Basically R$ is more stable by initially have a basic amount of positive desirability already R $$$ with the most negative is more susceptible to the effects of simulation parameters and below you can see that all these properties can be adjusted in the game (this is the way  work some mods.) this also applies to the traffic effects as discussed here

 

 

And as it seems that you did not realize the importance for MTD see that the inclusion of mod content  completely unbalanced (Jobs; demands; pollution; garbage, etc ...) it is one of the reasons why sometimes things get out of control for micro- simulation.

 

There is no other reason that SC4PIM creators added, so to speak, an automatic filling directly related to building size.

 

I hope you have understood that this has nothing to do with having any doubts about your programming knowledge to understand what we were discussing.

 

Even because, as everyone knows, this knowledge is already widely disseminated through the site

 

NC

[dkempel 3]

Thanks for providing this info NCGAIO. Though, I don't understand exactly what you are writing. Is this an answer to the question of what the numbers in the debug panel means? It could potentially be helpful to know what this easily accessible data mean.

 

To me, the exact calculation for desirability is not necessary. The simulator is not that challenging that I need such precise management tools.

[timmie 988]

Frankly, I don't think you should look at debug information if you just want to play the game. You can understand the game without all this information. Of course it's fun for people who are highly interested in how the game works, but there is no need for ordinary gamers to use this information. The information Prophet42 provided should be more than enough for ordinary gamers.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

I agree with that sentiment.  However, as a programmer, I am always curious about implementation details.  Often things like the debug panels give you an insight into the thinking of the developers.  I don't think they are very helpful in the overall play.

[NCGAIO 562]

Thanks for providing this info NCGAIO. Though, I don't understand exactly what you are writing. Is this an answer to the question of what the numbers in the debug panel means? It could potentially be helpful to know what this easily accessible data mean.

You read the entire topics?

I think it would be a bit of an exaggeration to repeat everything here just to have the images together for consultation so I suggest open in several windows and switch between them.

Asking permission from the author here an example that you will identify in the query.

 

Eg. the row named R $$ 150 ... 200 tells you que well-educated middle-class residents may be working in CO $$$ (44%), CO $$ (15%), CS $$$ (7%) CS $$ (30%), and I-HT (52%).

souce: Workforce and Occupation Demands

 

To me, the exact calculation for desirability is not necessary. The simulator is not that challenging that I need such precise management tools.

 

Here you would make Will Wright a little unhappy!

Years of work to do a simulation game that works on demand and convenience for create an challenge and make it more interesting .... and you did not like? ... you found it very easy?

Well the only thing I can say is that contrary to this opnion the game was strongly criticized after the release precisely because of its complexity but as times have changed, so ...

 

Frankly, I don't think you should look at debug information if you just want to play the game. You can understand the game without all this information .Of course it's fun for people who are highly interested in how the game works, but there is no need for ordinary gamers to use this information. The information Prophet42 provided should be more than enough for ordinary gamers.

 

Exactly what you understand as "debug information"?

 

My friend  ... this work took more than an half hour of my precious time and was made  to clarify some doubts as is posted therefore i consider that belittle it is at a minimum a huge lack of courtesy.

 

Since you are so sure of what is necessary to know maybe could clarify more easily because the number of available jobs do not match the allowed maximum or because the route query shows differences in the number of workers .... maybe i learn something here.

 

And before I forget ... leave a suggestion to post as messages contrary only what comes from own minds because i am  averse to politicking ...

 

Looking for explanations about the game .... always orders!

 

NC.

  

I agree with that sentiment

.   again ?????

  

However, as a programmer, I am always curious about implementation details.  Often things like the debug panels give you an insight into the thinking of the developers.

 

That is precisely why I spent my time to make the images, but now starting to think it was time wasted ....because you insist on treating it as "debugging tool", whatever your reason !!!.

 

 

JuI don't think they are very helpful in the overall play.

Well my friend ... it's always easier to ask "because that my R $$$ this abandoned if it alongside other fully occupied," but certainly some would like to solve it alone having all data in a single place rather than having to examine various ... a matter of taste, of course.

[timmie 988]

Really, it's fine that you are so interested in the simulation, I'm very happy for you that you are, but you really have to accept that there are other people who think it's not very important. They don't need to be convinced.

[NCGAIO 562]

Let me see if I got it right your comment!
 

Topic name - "Query tool information on the Industrial buildings"

 
Or very mistaken, or it has to do with the simulation, you do not think?
 

"Does anyone know what the different numbers in the debug panel mean I am not clear on all of them so I can not interpret the data very well."

 
any doubt about this being on the simulation data??
 
So about what you are talking  exactly when you say,  " other people who think it's not very important. They don't need to be convinced. "
 
Now dear friend allow me a note ... it be more useful if post something to help the User instead of just belittle the work of others with  comments..  whatever the your reason or of the others for doing it.
 
 
And as I think I have given my message...   closed my participation in this thread
 
A note: dkempel or anyone else who is interested please PM or follow the links

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Don't try to convince me with facts.  My mind is made up. :kitty:

 

Proselytization is generally a bad thing.  Look at what happened to all those (nearly completely destroyed) Polynesian civilizations.  One should be careful not to step in the wambonga.

[CaptCity 4,913]

HI all... Just as a reminder, presenting information is one of the valuable aspects of our forums. While some may view such presentations as less relevant than others, we shouldn't derail topics by debating the information's worth. Some may find it useful, some may not. If not, then simply move along... Thanks.