Reddonquixote's Q1 Project

[muxcomee 35]

wow, just wow. 

 

but, out of curiousity, why don't you make the otherside of the building too?

 

you've probably already said this, but im too lazy to read back

[T Wrecks 10,209]

Because the building is symmetrical. Why make both halves when you can simply finish one and mirror the final result?

[Reddonquixote 4,338]

Correct! To be honest, there's not much more to go on the tower. My next update will be finishing off some final touches then mirroring it... Then we move onto the base

[kellydale2003 2,276]

Very good stuff!

You should do a render of all your buildings using Vray clay. I would totally use that as my wallpaper. I would do it with my own projects, but I've spent hundreds of hours looking at them over the years. It's kind of like my own cooking... stuff just taste better when someone else cooks it :b

[muxcomee 35]

Oh i see, that makes so much sense

 

Im so happy

[Reddonquixote 4,338]

Finishing Off

 

Here's a relatively small update to finish off the tower. There are only three things we need to finish off. 

1. The railings on the terraces
2. The wing extensions
3. The symmetry modifier (to complete the other side of the building)

 

1) The railings on the terraces - for these I have used the railing object in 3DS Max. I rarely use it because I find it a bit painful, but once its started its actually pretty good.

 

The railing object located is under AEC Extended

 

 

With snaps toggle switched on, drag a railing between one end of a terrace to the other.

 

 

Then we can use the various parameters in the railing tool to make what we need. These are the one's I have used. Those little buttons I've outlined in red allow you to increase posts and pickets and various other tweaks to the railing.

 

 

 

2) The wing extensions are simple extrusions, but the polygons at the lower half of the wing are full size windows, we need them to be narrow slices. To achieve this, we select all the polygons we want to extrude that are too wide, and with snaps toggle on, trace a line between the vertices directly above. The quick slice only slices the selected polygons, and it slices every polygon in its path.

 

 

The two blue dots are where the vertices are, and the dotted blue line is where the slice is made:

 

Then we just extrude them to an appropriate length, and to finish off, select the top two vertices and move them down on the z-axis to conform to the slope of the wing.

 

 

3) The symmetry modifier completes the building. Firstly, we need to select anything that we want to appear on the 2nd half. You will remember for example that the roof sections were created on both sides, we don't want these included when we mirror the building's 2nd side.

 

Hide the object we don't want to mirror, then select one of the objects and attach all the other objects to it. The alternative is to do the next step on each layer, and that would be very painful.

 

Once we have done this, we select all the polygons that are down the centre of the building. I find this easiest to do in the top view. Once we have these selected, we delete them.

 

 

If you haven't already done the next step, you will need to unhide everything first. If you don't, the hidden objects will be out of alignment and that could be quite painful to fix.

 

I had already done this, so it was just a case of checking it was still in position. What we need is to have the centre line of the building sitting right on the x axis 0 coordinates.

 

 

Next we add the symmetry modifier. There are a couple of additional steps to do here.

 

Firstly, we set the mirror axis to 'X', and the 'Weld Seam' checked. Probably it looks a bit weird... lets unweirdify it.

 

Expand the symmetry modifier to select the mirror, and with the move tool selected, we type '0' in the x axis coordinates box. This mirrors the building on the x-axis at 0, which is also where we positioned the centre of our building.

 

Now, if your building disappears, there is a little checkbox called 'flip'. This will invert the mirror and the building should reappear, on both sides.

 

 

And the moment muxcomee has been waiting for... we have a building with two sides

 

 

And for an extra bit of effect, we can block in some of the colours to give us a sense of what it will look like textured:

 

 

 

 

 

That's it for the tower for now. In the next update we start on the base

[Charlie_Zane 963]

This is just amazing! Love the colours, can't wait to see how you do the base!

[KevinPaul06 57]

YES! YES! YES!

 

Texturing is next!! I finally completed the BAT that I'm doing but I still need to make its texture to be look good. Soon I can finally learn how

[Darknono35 3,137]

Excellent work on the model, I can't wait to see the texturing

[Ace3 1,209]

Whoo, that model looks gorgeous. I can't wait to see how you work out the base

[muxcomee 35]

its so beautiful :')

[Reddonquixote 4,338]

Base Planning & Decisions

 

Before we start on the base, we need to make some decisions.

 

Rule number #1. You're not going to please everyone. You're the one who has to devote a portion of your life to making this thing.. make what you want to make... and everyone else can either be grateful for it or they don't download it, up to them

 

In addition to the tower, the Q1 complex is a spa/resort. Within the lot perimiter are the tower, some building arcades, the spa resort, two swimming pools, and another building.

 

Decision 1 - Whether or not to make the complex or just a standalone building. The swimming pools are cool, I want to include them. I'm making at least some of the complex

 

Decision 2 - I'm not making the other building. So I need to either chop that part of the complex out, or fill it in with something else. I'm thinking another pool, and/or landscaping, I haven't decided yet.

 

Decision 3 - Well, actually that's all the decisions for now

 

<Insert barrage of complaints here>

 

Getting started...

 

I haven't actually made a comlex as large or detailed as this before, I'm going to make the process up as I go. I think I need to make another almost prototype, but unlike the other one, this will be a positioning and elevation map, upon which I will make the actual model.

 

In the image below, I've taken an aerial photograph from Bing, and superimposed the tower footprint over it, and added another pool to help visualise what a third pool might look like.

 

 

Using the architectural drawing as a base image, I've traced out the part of the complex depicted in the drawing.

 

 

 

Next, I replace the base image in the top viewport with the one I made with the third pool (above). I then use rotate and scale to position the building tracing into its correct position.

 

 

I then trace out other shapes in the complex.

 

 

 

Now I select each line item, and convert each one to an editable poly, and using the Bing image below, I move them into an approximate elevation. I use different colours to help with the visualisation. (and I work off two screens, that helps )

 

 

 

Then, if all goes to plan, it should just be a case of replacing each of the roughly made objects with properly made models.. coming up next

[Xander Dax 310]

Looks Amazing mate

[Cheddar 119]

Been missing out on the progress lately. I just have to say that this building is just incredible! 

[Bipin 3,402]

This project is coming along nicely Reddonquixote. I feel neglectful for having not followed this earlier. Excellent work, as per usual!

[Reddonquixote 4,338]

Getting Started

 

This is a really hard decision.. where to start!

 

There's no right or wrong answer, the best thing you can do is just start somewhere, otherwise it just becomes daunting. Once you get started it just keeps evolving from there.. then you won't be able to stop!

 

I've decided for the base there's no point showing every single step, it will just get tedious for me and for you reading this. You may have noticed by now, I only have a very limited repertoire of modelling techniques, and I hope if nothing else I've shown you that you don't need to know all the tricks, you can still make something pretty decent with just a basic set of tools under your belt. As any BATter will attest to, ultimately its the textures that make or break the BAT.

 

Enough procrastinating... lets get started.

 

Oh, just before we do that, we better make sure the lot and scales are right otherwise we could end up with a few headaches at the end. You may recall from one of the first posts, I measured this lot out to 12x6. Its one of those borderline calls, it could just as easily have been 13x6, but I thought 12x6 was a nicer number. Having now mapped out the complex in the previous update, its actually looking more like 13x6 again (Almost perfectly in fact). 13 seems like a yucky number, but for now i'm just going to run with it, see if I can squeeze a couple of meters off each end later. If not, I know it fits 13 perfectly

 

Because I traced the complex from an aerial photo, its now out of scale with SC4. We could leave it like this but I personally would have difficulty getting the scale right. So the first thing we do is resize it down to SC4 scale. We do this by making a basic rectangle, 208m x 96m (13x6 in game grid terms), and placing at 0-0 coordinates. Group all of the objects that make up the complex, and position them also at 0-0 coordinates. Then we simply use the scale tool until the perimeter of the complex is the same size as our rectangle we made. (We can then delete it.)

 

 

 

Now, i've picked really the most simplest part to get started.. as I said, getting started is the hardest part, so make it easy as you can . I've selected the South-Western corner of the lot to start. There are a couple of ground objects that are just the most basic geometry - rectangles. The next object is a tube. We use the tube parameter settings (Slice) to make it into the shape we want:

 

 

We make some taller sculptural objects using the array tool, and now we're on our way...

 

 

Oh, what's that purple thing I hear you ask... that's a little trick I use... he's a little dude that I move around the complex as I make stuff. He's 3 meters tall (sim height), and he just helps me keep things in perspective.

 

Now.. we move onto our first building. Simple, simple, modelling. Nothing we haven't already done a million times before on the tower. We already have the basic shape of the building from when we traced the complex.

1. First we select the top polygon only, and using the move tool we push it right down so its only a few inches high. (its now a foundation)
2. Use shift+move upwards to create a duplicate, and again selecting the top polygon, move upwards so its about 1.5 times as high as our purple dude. That's how scientific I get with measuring stuff [Darn just had an aneurism ]...
3. We repeat the process again, but this time we leave a tiny little bit of a gap between the two objects.
4. We trace the outline of the roof with the line tool, set to rectangular, and make duplicates all the way back down again
5. Then we trace the vertical lines in the front of the building to make vertical frames
6. Selecting just the front set of polygons from the topmost object, we use shift+move upwards to create a small set of glass panels. Just select the top row of vertices and move them down a little bit so they aren't so high.
7. Select the vertical lines and just their top row of vertices, and extend them up to a little bit taller than the glass panels
8. Make some basic rectangles and position them around the sides of the building to make structural frames
9. Lastly, make a little rectangular box, bevel the front of it to 0 height, then use a tiny negative extrude, and position it on the corner of the building, this will be a sign.

That's it, our first building (literally took not even half an hour...):

 

Oh, one thing I should mention, this is probably the level of detail I would generally go to at this stage of the model. Once we get into texturing, I usually supplement the texturing with a lower level of detail. This is about right for now

 

Now, this is the way I'll probably do most of the updates from now on, just a running commentary with a picture at the end, and deep dive into anything new or technical. Please let me know if you need more information about anything I have made here.

[RepublicMaster 428]

Looking good! I can't wait to see it finished.

[Roger51 381]

Great tutorial Red, I think it does need to be said that you cannot please everyone when it comes to your decisions, but they are your decisions!!! Looking great so far

[blunder 1,079]

Decision 2 - I'm not making the other building. So I need to either chop that part of the complex out, or fill it in with something else. I'm thinking another pool, and/or landscaping, I haven't decided yet.

 

 

How about a nice shiny metallic statue that will reflect in the pools?  

 

Something like this demo of my amateurish BATing:

[darn42 1,268]

Looking nice. The building is especially beautiful. 

 

And it was only a minor aneurysm I get too specific with mah numbers in many cases; I guess it shows why you have many amazing products on the exchange, and I have a lot of lost projects.

[muxcomee 35]

omigosh- it just gets better and better. I can imagine this when its done - so good

[Reddonquixote 4,338]

Western Perimeter

 

Well, I'm a little bit conscious about spamming my own thread, honestly there isn't much more to show from a techniques perspective, its just the same things in different combinations. Here's an update on the western side of the complex. The only techniques used are - Connect, Chamfer, Extrude, Bevel, Move, Rotate & Scale... for the pieces down the side of the side entrance I used ProBoolean (We used it ProBoolean when we made the cutouts on the roof), and the curved walls were made using the line tool. My primary reference is Google Street view. That's it

 

Here's the next section of wall:

 

And close up with edges showing so you can see where the connects and chamfers were made, and padded out with bevel and extrude:

 

 

And we keep following the road along until we reach the end:

 

 

 

This all seems basic and easy to me, because I know how.. so if there's anything you want more detail on please don't hesitate to ask. Otherwise, I'll just keep going

 

------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry, I've been neglectful with responses. Making these naratives takes quite a bit of work!

 

Thanks everyone for continued supportive comments

 

Blunder, that's great, the idea is a bit OTT but I like your work.. I'm still trying to spot the amaturishness

[blunder 1,079]

I'm still trying to spot the amaturishness

 

 

/whisper:  The statue itself isn't mine (it's an open source model), just the pool structure underneath it.  

 

It was from when i was learning about arch materials and testing reflections several months ago.  And when i saw you said you would have some plaza space i thought 'why not throw the idea out there' since there's almost no reflecting pools in this game.

 

Will you be including the ground flora in the model?  I really look forward to learning how to do that as my attempts have been futile.

[T Wrecks 10,209]

I'll chime in with a side remark for BATters from a lotter's perspective: If you have anything fancy in mind (for example, a transit-enabled parking garage entrance), now (at the latest!) should be the time to remember it. Setting up the grid to SC4 tiles (16 by 16 metres) in Max gives you a good impression of what will end up where. You can use this knowledge to make any "lot-sensitive" features adapt to the grid, even if it comes at the cost of some artistic liberty. The question is always: What's worth more in the end, and what's the cost? Changing half the base just to make an unimportant element "snap" to the grid is probably not worth the trouble, but nudging a parking garage entrance 2 metres to the side to make it TE-capable might result in gaining a cool little feature at very low cost.

_______________________

 

Another consideration is always: Do I BAT the entire ground, or just the building? 

 

 

The advantage of BATting it all is that it will all look coherent. The disadvantage is that it is more work. Besides, it will result in a larger model, and hence, longer render times.

 

The advantage of lotting is that you have less modeling work to do, the render will be faster, and the final result will be more flexible. So someone doesn't like the ground texture? It can be changed as easy as 1-2-3 in the Lot Editor. Someone's playing a tropical region and would much prefer palm trees on the lot instead of deciduous trees? See above. Someone plays with seasonal flora and doesn't like it when trees stay green in winter? Easily fixed. The disadvantage is that it may be hard to find textures that complement the BAT well, and that most separate props will not receive shade when they actually should. (However, the latter problem is also prevalent on all Maxis lots, so it's probably something you won't even notice because the lot will look like all others you have grown accustomed to.)

 

As a rule of thumb:

• The more specific the base and the more it fills the lot anyway, the more speaks in favour of BATting it.
• The more generic the base and the less it fills the lot, the more speaks in favour of LOTting it.

What should be avoided as far as possible is BATting horizontal ground that does not cover the entire lot. The game has a different shadow angle than Max/gmax, so all shadow lines will be broken. Besides, it will be next to impossible to find a matching lot texture because textures and models also behave differently depending on whether they are in sunlight or in shade. It's a major pain in a lower body region to lot such buildings.

 

If there are very specific lamp posts, sculptures, or other objects, but the ground isn't actually all that special, a good compromise can be to include these features, but leave the ground empty so it can be built using regular lot textures. However, there is one problem: LODs. Firstly, your LOD shell will end up really big, increasing render times. Secondly, all objects inside your lot will be superimposed over other props placed near them, so you don't gain much flexibility.

Therefore, in such a case I'd recommend rendering the ancillary objects as separate props. This will make your actual building render faster due to more snugly fitting LODs, and the props are so small that they are a breeze to render anyway. There will be no LOD conflicts if someone decides to add a few trees or whatnot, and it is also possible to get rid of the entire stuff and make a completely new lot from scratch, starting with only the building.

 

I hope that one or two BATters who might read this found it to be relevant and good to know. And with that being said, back to topic!

[Reddonquixote 4,338]

Thanks Twrecks, very useful article.

 

Great suggestion on the TE bit. I had thought of making the driveway TE'd but until you mentioned it I hadn't given any thought to lining it up with the game grid. Good save, thanks!

 

In terms of whether or not to BAT the ground, one counterpoint I might add is I don't really see more modelling work and longer rendering times as disadvantages, they are just one-offs that are basically associated costs with making the product. If the result is worth the investment, then why wouldn't you? (I'm assuming by render times you mean the BAT render vs in-game display - if there's a residual in-game rendering lag then that's definitely a disadvantage)

 

You also added a third disadavantage, that if you want to change lot textures it might be hard to find one that suits... I don't think this is a disadvantage as such either. Assuming you could find a good lot texture to begin with (That's the real challenge!), if there were none others that were suitable you would either 1, not change it, or 2, make your own. Its more an issue of texture variety than ground BATing.

 

I think you've hit on a good point though - one of the advantages of BATing the ground is you can make all the textures and props you want without needing dependencies. The disadvantage is, they are permanent and you can't customise them.

 

The idea of making smaller features as props is an interesting one... again this is a trade-off. Disadvantages: Fiddly LODing, the extra time required to export each thing separately, more cluttered plugins folder in the end... for the advantage of customiseability. This is where we need BATers who also play the game. they will get the benefit of this. Someone like myself, I just want to move onto the next thing... fiddling around with props and lots isn't overly exciting to me.

 

I've often thought it would be cool if I could just churn out the models and someone else can do all the lotting/modding stuff (a bit like the project Simcoug and I are embarking on soon )

Another option would be to make two versions, one with BATed ground and one without.

 

Interesting point about shadow directions too... I didn't realise that. I wonder why that is the case? I assumed the light rig in the tools were designed to match the game lighting. I can't say I noticed shadow discrepancies before... I bet I do now though... thanks for that

 

This was very useful, thanks

 

----------------------

Blunder: yes, I intend to add the flora, but I'm not great at it either. Hopefully when we get to that bit others can assist

[T Wrecks 10,209]

Well, if you can stand the render times - and if your PC can handle the render - then you are fine, of course. However, in the extreme case of a very tall and narrow building with a rather large base, you'd end up with a LOD shell that's far, far bigger than the actual building. That's all fine and dandy until you're facing the capacity limit of your PC, where rendering that tall building might be just within that limit, but coupled to the huge LOD you need because of the base, it melts your PC - or results in the dreaded error code 6 (cannot render because I just can't). Of course you can try a more complex LOD shape, but LOD shape does have an impact on in-game speed.

 

As for finding a suitable lot texture, I was assuming you start with an exported building and you don't have any lot texture yet. Besides, making textures is yet another topic. Not everyone will be so comfortable with this step that he'll be like "Oh great, I'm just gonna whip up a nice texture in three minutes".

 

Making smaller features as props doesn't have to be fiddly at all. Stuff like a fountain, a sculpture, etc. can just be rendered with automatically generated, generic box LODs - no fiddling at all.

Likewise, it doesn't have to clutter up anything - you could just package all ancillary objects plus the core building in one DAT => no additional file whatsoever.

 

Such teamworks like you describe there are nothing new. NDEX used to work that way. DuskTrooper, Superstar, Oneil_1 etc. would churn out the BATs, and Equinox would make the entire modding and lotting. In the earlier days of HKABT, I did just the same. I've also lent a hand to other, individual BATters as well as to members of NYBT, ABBT, and BSP. While I'm typing this, I have some stuff for IDS2... The thing is, you don't find many people who will finish and wrap up other peoples' stuff. There has never been what you could call an abundance of modders, so treat SimCoug well.

[jdenm8 362]

but LOD shape does have an impact on in-game speed.

 

Not nearly as much as you'd think considering the tradeoffs. Most BATs only have three times the polygons (A whopping 6) that a single tile of modelled L0 RHW-4 would have and all large Maxis buildings have custom LODs. Not to mention on the usability end, overly large LODs make using the Bulldozer and Query tools harder since you're making model where there isn't building.

 

Q1 I reckon would, if it was an LOD on the looser end of the spectrum, have less polygons than a single tile of L2 ERHW-4. About 16 per rotation and zoom sounds about right provided you only used boxes. You'd have to have 218 instances in the city to hit the count of an average custom The Sims 2 car (these usually average 3000).

[APSMS 1,892]

Well, I think I just learned a very large amount in just the last 12 posts. If someone could remind me what LOD stands for (I know what it's referring to via deduction of your posts). I'm not sure I could simply go ahead and start batting stuff after having read this topic, but it at least explains how the RTMT queries work and why some building always get in the way when I'm trying to bulldoze stuff (the always annoying cursor slip that destroys the whole block instead of just the one building).

 

For my $.02 from a non BAT/LOT proficient person, I'd say that having dependencies is definitely less ideal, although integration with the region is increased if, say you were able to use things like Girafe's seasonal flora on the LOT, which I would say are widely used enough by most of us to make the requirement work it. Plus, iirc, you won't get brown boxes, you just won't have trees, and the user could then plant their own.

 

I've noticed that you BAT the trees on all of your other uploads, and these trees are really well done, though seasonal capabilities would be a nice added feature (in certain cases). Certainly collaboration is a wonderful thing. I remember the readme for the UN Building by Cockatoo which implied that something on the order of five people had contributed to the project. Especially when you have a decent BATter (like Krio) whose uploads are mediocre because of the lot that they sit on (although yours are usually much, much better, St. Paul's Cathedral [v1] comes to mind.)

[Reddonquixote 4,338]

Arcade Shops

 

I haven't made much progress this weekend. Inconvenient RL !

 

I have now completed the southern perimeter of the building, and I've put bit of detail into the arcade shops and roadside objects.

 

 

 

Here's an HD render as well so you can see the details more clearly. Again, nothing new or exciting here.

 

Rubbish bin: A tube with the top beveled twice and auto-smoothed

Mailbox: A cylinder, sliced in half with the flat end extruded

Bench: About 8 long rectangles arranged in side view, using rotation, into a bench shape, with splines for the frame and legs

Umbrella: Half a sphere with auto-smoothing removed

Planters: A cylinder with 5 segments, vertices at each layer scaled so it becomes a pot shape. Top bevelled and extruded.

Chairs: A cylinder with deformed vertices, a bend modifer attached so its a saddle shape for the seat, cloned and rotated upright for the back, and splines for legs

 

That's all there is to it

 

[Reddonquixote 4,338]

Glass Canopy - proto

 

Here's my last update for the weekend. I just had an idea how to make the glass canopy, and here's attempt number 1. The technique worked well, I just need to redo it with better fitting circular glass panels. I'll provide a detailed update for it next when I make the real one.