Beating a Dead Horse

[The Avatar 1,089]

I know that I cannot be the only person who feels this way, so I am going to express my concerns over the current state of SimCity (2013) discussion. This has gone on long enough. Since approximately a year ago, we Simtropolites have been given news about the new SimCity, and members have expressed their concerns regarding the game. There is nothing wrong with this; everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but now that the game has been released, haven't they been expressed enough? The same concerns have been repeatedly stated hundreds of times throughout the months in many topics and posts. Topics echo the same complaints from different people: DRM, Tile size, graphics, etc. Over time, these complaints have escalated into arguments, in which people have resorted to name-calling and insults, even insulting SimCity supporters' intelligence. "Anyone who like SimVilleTownSims is a traitor! Ban them all! Go SC4!" Of course, that's an exaggeration, and not all members act that way, but I feel it accurately summarizes how some people have acted. In addition, topics remotely related to SimCIty have been hijacked to complain and rant about the game, resulting in the topic having to be locked by a moderator or admin. This leads me to my next point: the admins and mods are often having to delete or edit posts and close topics because of how members have acted. For all the site staff does for us, we give them more work to do. I think it's time we all have a good long look at the Finally, there is no productivity to repeating complaints and arguments. The game has already been released, and if you hate it, there is not much you can do about it. EA is the third-largest game company by revenue (Wikipedia), and complaining about SimCity, no matter how much, is probably not going to do much. Honestly, they have showed no indication of listening; what makes you think they will now? It is highly unlikely that any of the major (and most disliked) aspects of the game will be changed. 

 

In closing, if you dislike the game, that's fine; you have all the reason to dislike, and you are entitled to your own opinions, but express them politely, if you feel they have not been expressed already in the thousands of posts and hundreds of topics in this forum. Do not hijack threads just to rant about everything you despise about EA and SimCity. Be nice to others, even if you disagree with them. Let's stop arguing and the repeated complaining, and have productive and positive discussion; all we're doing now is beating a dead horse. What is the point? I would expect this behavior from comments anywhere else, but not Simtropolis. I have been on this website for only a year or so, but from what I have experienced, it is a great website run by hard-working people who are devoted to the SimCity series, with overall kind, helpful members. I, and I'm sure many others, do not want to see discussion degrade into petty arguments in which members flame one another. So let's keep Simtropolis the polite, productive, and great SimCity (not just SC4) community that it is.

[logintime 93]

While I agree we should avoid becoming a Broken Base, this feels somewhat like a strawman argument to me. Just because things have been said before does not mean people should stop expressing their feelings toward the game. And I have seen as much namecalling from supporters of the new Simcity as from its detractors. Would everyone benefit from taking a step back and not being quite so passionate about their positions? Yes. But there are plenty of legitimate grounds for complaints, and I do not thing asking for people to silent their own unhappiness with a product that doesn't work as advertised is the way to go.

 

Absolutely, let's be polite, productive, and friendly. But let's also disagree, level our honest opinions, and be civil in the process.

[nats 99]

Finally, there is no productivity to repeating complaints and arguments. The game has already been released, and if you hate it, there is not much you can do about it. EA is the third-largest game company by revenue (Wikipedia), and complaining about SimCity, no matter how much, is probably not going to do much. Honestly, they have showed no indication of listening; what makes you think they will now? It is highly unlikely that any of the major (and most disliked) aspects of the game will be changed. 

 

With respect (politeness see) I disagree completely. If we are unhappy we complain and we dont buy. If we dont complain on here where are we to complain? And if we dont complain on here a lot people may come here and think the game is great and buy it. Yes all of this has been said before but the more people who dont buy the game the more it will force EA to change it. And that would be a good thing for all the fans here.

 

Overwhelming critical outcry in the public media can change the world. For godesake it can overthrow dictators! Why then do you think it cannot change a simple computer game?

 

So I say yes complain! Of the mods want to remove the posts let them. But keep complaining! EA do read this site. Eventually they will get the message when the revenue from the sales is well down. And then, just like Ubisoft did with Silent Hunter 5, they will remove the forced online DRM. And then they will also change the tile sizes. And then we buy the game and everyone is happy.

 

If a few months of complaining can acheive this that isnt much to put up with is it? And if you dont want to read the posts dont read them. Simples.

[metarvo 710]

Sigh... another one of these threads.  Now, I've said this before: we're not the only ones complaining about SC2013.  This is not some "SC4 mob" deal, as I've heard it put, either.  Even non-SC4 players and non-SC4 sites are doing the same thing.  General game review sites and the media are expressing dissatisfaction with the game, too.  So, it's not just us.

[magicrobbie 77]

With all due respect, I disagree. Not buying the game and complaining here is the only way for us to express our feelings and make our voices heard - in the hope to still eventually get a worthy successor of Sim City 4. And we might prevent others from buying a game they won't like - remember that there is a no refund-policy. Looking at the game - weren't our concerns justified?

 

Please think about it in a bigger context - in any good and working democracy, being a critical and outspoken citizen helps raise the standards of public governance.

[elavery 1,013]

I agree, SC2013 does seem like a dead horse.

[tropsim 2]

Greetings from the French Riviera to all of you. I entirely agree with seeing no point in repeating the same things over and over. expressing one's opinions is legitimate, though. I am not bying the game and thta's how i express my viewpoint. No ranting, offensive language or violating Simtroplis code of conduct. I am just NOT buying, period!

[Benedict 3,119]

With all due respect, I disagree. Not buying the game and complaining here is the only way for us to express our feelings and make our voices heard - in the hope to still eventually get a worthy successor of Sim City 4. And we might prevent others from buying a game they won't like - remember that there is a no refund-policy. Looking at the game - weren't our concerns justified?

 

Please think about it in a bigger context - in any good and working democracy, being a critical and outspoken citizen helps raise the standards of public governance.

 

If everyone conducted themselves as you have in your post (polite, thoughtful, respectful), the community would be a better place!

 

As to part one of your post - I think we would all be excited about getting a successor to SC4 - a Sim City 5 if you will - however Maxis chose to create a 'reboot' (their word) rather than a successor. So I think they are different things entirely, and we've seen that in the released images and videos - they really are different games, not a progression from one to the next (and some people would call it a regression) as we felt when moving from SC3 to SC4 for example. The other problem is that SC4 has been changed immensely since release - first with Rush Hour, and secondly (and more extensively) with community MODding, BATting and all the rest. I personally feel it is like comparing apples to oranges to compare a brand new game to one with 10 years' worth of custom content.

 

As to part two, I am unclear what you are referring to. If it is this community, Simtropolis is not a democracy - it is owned by Dirktator. Sure, he's a benevolent and generous dictator, which we all appreciate, but he is sole owner nonetheless. He appoints administrators and moderators as he sees fit. They create the forum rules by which we are expected to abide, and lately they have been bent and broken to a degree that is not acceptable to the Simtropolis Community as a whole. The community has evolved to the point where polite, fact-based discussion on issues at hand is expected. 

 

If you are referring to the gaming industry, it isn't a democracy either - but you certainly can express your opinions in many ways - one of which is with your wallet by not purchasing the game, or by not purchasing any further game content.

 

 

[Fobok 1]

For me, it's not the complaints that bother me. People have a right to complain. What bothers me is the outright hostility seen towards people who actually do like the game. People are treated like traitors if they dare to say that they don't mind small city sizes, or the always-online requirement. 

 

I'm new here, I didn't even realize this site existed until a couple days ago. So, I'm not sure how accepting the community is, normally, of dissenting opinions. However, what I've seen here lately isn't a very good first impression. 

[jeremyp1223 8]

 

For me, it's not the complaints that bother me. People have a right to complain. What bothers me is the outright hostility seen towards people who actually do like the game. People are treated like traitors if they dare to say that they don't mind small city sizes, or the always-online requirement. 
 
I'm new here, I didn't even realize this site existed until a couple days ago. So, I'm not sure how accepting the community is, normally, of dissenting opinions. However, what I've seen here lately isn't a very good first impression. 

Welcome to Simtropolis Fobok!  I agree that people do have the right to complain. This site boomed when the annoucement of simcity 5 came out, and to me it seems that most of these are posting there first of second posts ever on here about how bad simcity is. Alot of the members are very respectful and open minded. I think you will like it here.

[AIX 270]

All due respect to all, but I think this topic in and of itself is beating a dead horse. We already have enough posts complaining about the fact people are complaining or how they are complaining.

 

I have also seen just as much hostility coming from the pro-SC2013 camp as the pro-SC4 camp.

 

One thing to consider for those who are defending SC2013's very obvious shortcomings: the Sunk Cost Fallacy. A lot has been invested into this game from the community in terms of anticipation and money (for those that purchased). 

[rommelgain 2]

Anytime one decides to rollover, give up, give in and move on and keep their mouth shut, the door is closed on the hope of ever having change. It is probably too late for SimCity2013 but this whole debacle can still be a cautionary tale for the industry as a whole. Secondly, seeing the level of outcry as the legions of fans come out of the woodwork lets potential 'good' developers know, "hey, there really is a demand for this type of game and people are passionate about it!".  Imagine if from all of this came an announcement that FHI was going to fully fund and develop the CitiesXL franchise into what effectively would be much more in line with the fans of SC4. At the very least, perhaps we can put a few nails in the coffin of 'always online' and shoe-horned multi-player features that aren't required for what has always been a fine single player experience. Let your voices be heard! Beat the dead horse if you are so inclined then go on your way, rest, and if you feel up to it again come back for a few more whacks. EA/Maxis have been pinned down, tied up and are about to be virtually water-boarded. I think for once they may be hearing you ;-)

[Gurning_Chimp 398]

I tell you what, when EA fixes the game to my standards, then I'll stop complaining, OK?

 

[Mystrelia 57]

Hi there! *waves* I've been a member here for a lot of years but I rarely post in the forums, mainly download things for my SC4 game. I haven't said a lot about this new SimCity game because I said my piece a few months back and left it at that. However, I do have one more thing to say so I'll say that today and move on and get on with my life.

 

I've played SimCity since I found SC2000 in a bargain bin over ten years ago. SC3000 was the very first game I ever bought during the same year it was released. Soon after SC4 was released I bought it and had to upgrade my computer just to be able to play it. I've played it off and on over all these past years and most of that play time was found when my internet was down. Then a new SC was announced however long ago it was and I got pretty excited about it. Then as time went on I started reading the stuff about required online play and that really turned me off because I want to be able to play any game I bought when and where I want, internet connection or no, and have control of my own game saves, etc. Here's the way I think on it and why I think so many people are airing their disgruntlement. (And no, no one should be rude or insult each other--that's just unacceptable.)

 

Firstly, I think OPTIONAL online play is a great idea. I play Minecraft with my son regularly and we have a lot of fun in our cooperative play, collecting resources to help each other with our projects, etc. It adds a depth to the game that single player mode doesn't. So I can see where the same thing would be possible with this new SimCity game. The best thing is, the server we play on is right here on one of our computers. No one else has access and all one of us needs to do is turn on the right computer and start the server in order to play. If we want to do single play mode no internet access is required at all.

 

The truth of the matter is, there are thousands of city builders who would love nothing more than to have a new SimCity game but are totally put off by the heavy-handed stance of online only play. They could probably complain to family and friends but it's been my experience through my gaming years that very few people I know in the outside world have any understanding whatsoever of enjoying a video game. Most people I know are just "way too busy for that kind of nonsense" and look at me like I have a third eye growing out of my forehead if I even mention a video game. When we want to express our disappointments over such things we turn to other people who understand and those people are found on forums like this.

 

I know personally I am very disappointed in EA and/or Maxis but there's no way on this earth I'm paying $60 for a game that I can't play on my terms. I wouldn't even pay $30 for a game like that. Just remember there are many of us out here who would've jumped on buying this game if the developers hadn't decided we can't even have single player mode without the internet.

 

Well, I've said pretty much all I'm going to say. I'm going to back out from SimTrop now and most likely forget this new game even exists and go back to my Minecraft world. You know, that game only cost me $20 and I've played it more and longer than almost any other game I've ever bought. Funny thing, though. The developer was just some guy in Sweden and although he's got filthy rich from it and turned most of the development over to a team, it still gets regular updates with new content at no extra charge, players mod it to death, and by George, I don't need internet access to play it.

 

P.S. In the end it probably won't matter how much we complain but you never know. Sometimes the people at EA do actually listen. After all, it did only take them until the Sims 3: Generations to add the bunkbeds players had been begging for since the original game.

[Cockatoo 2,257]

...Do not hijack threads...

 

Good point, that one.

 

Some of you are missing the key point OP was trying to make.

 

Express your opinions all you like. Just express them respectfully. Don't give other members a hard time just because you disagree with them. And pay attention to our long established forum customs.

 

This is Simtropolis after all.

[snake117 18]

Finally, there is no productivity to repeating complaints and arguments.

The game has already been released, and if you hate it, there is not

much you can do about it. EA is the third-largest game company by

revenue (Wikipedia), and complaining about SimCity, no matter how much,

is probably not going to do much.

I agree with pretty much everything you said except this. Because everyone raised their voices at Maxis and blasted EA, I feel like they are working much harder to fix all the problems.

 

Now, will they offer offline play because of all the repeated complaints? In this case you're probably right; they are not going to listen.

[simmerboy 19]

The problem I have is that people complain over and over again. Get over it, complaining will not make something change. Maxis has been working on this game for four years; they will not change anything.

 

If you do have something to complain with, at least politely use constructive crticism. But don't say the same thing over and over again. You've made your point now let's move on.