Future of SimCity Official Discussion Thread

[DavidBrown 0]

Maybe going a little off-topic, but I have played a game called Trainz Railway Simulator. I've played the 2004 version, but there is a newer one out. My main point with this game is the graphics - they are awsome! OK, it is primarily a railway simulator, but there are huge numbers of options you have when it comes to roads - you can even decide what each induvidual road sign says! It is all 3D, all roads and railways can be dragged out so you can have extreme realism, you can decide what buildings go where and what angle they are at.

OK, this game is VERY different from Sim City as it is not a tycoon game for a start - there is no money. Also, there are no public transport options (apart from railways and bus stop signs), and it doesn't matter if you put loads of residential or commercial buildings down as they don't do anything apart from aesthetics. Remember, this is a Railway Simulator. But if SimCity were to follow this example of graphics, I think we could be onto a winner. Not only that, but computers a couple of years old can easily run the game, so computers that exist in a few years time should easily be able to cope with the extra data needed for the sims and cars etc. Also bear in mind that you can actually drive the trains on this game - something not essential for SimCity. Anyone else played it? What do you think?

[mtlife 0]

I'd like to see what most people want to see, better regional play.

1 Airport is really enough for a whole region. Why not have an airport zone, like in simcity 2000. Computers nowadays are powerful enough to generate a nice airport I think

And ofcourse those stupid commute times.. and maybe smarter sims, dont take a very busy road if the highway is 2 tiles further away. And with that, I want to see ofcourse see sims drive further then 2km.

And maybe this isnt suggested yet, but I would like to see people actually go to beaches on hot days! If I create beaches now, and I want a nice boulevard with shops and everything they will always have low customers because there is no traffic at the beaches. Maybe a real tourisme mod can create is. More hotels on the boulevard

[mightygoose 92]

i'd like to see a tourist route query as well. region data diplay and graph mode, for over all stats, whats the hottest place to live in the entire region. furthermore, smaller squares to allow more diverse road shapes and lot sizes. however as with all delayed sequels. there will be those who feel its not good enough and will stick to four like glue and others who believe its amazing. very rarely is a sequel adequate for everyone. but hell i hope maxis read these threads and take note. but hey hoo, there has been no official conformation so we are just hoping at the moment. maybe city lifew will give them a boot in the backside??!!

[DavidBrown 0]

It may already have been mentioned, but it seems silly to me that thousands of commuters can go to work in their cars, but the buildings they go to may have no parking spaces! I would like the car parks to have some effect, and commuters actually use them, rather than just disappear into nowhere.

On a similar theme to 'tourist traffic', what about, for example, people going to do their shopping, or school run traffic? That would be nice to see.

[GaBoR 7]

There is a thread about neighborhood personalities, that could be a nice modalitite, you know changing the appearence of certain residencial zones to accomodate your building vision, a ghetto style with graffitti, or some kind of art-alternative neighborhood, some beach walk you know... More identity for the city

[moganite 4]

The thing i would add is very simple and probably solve the water table issues. Use 24 bit images for the tarrain imports red channel can be land, blue water and green vegetaion. As a mapper i am sick of having dry rivers and lakes or gorges. I am also sick of painting trees with the god tool as it takes forever and you have to do each tile. I waould also like to see the importing feature made easier to use no secret key combos that you can't find easily ARRRRGGGHHHHHH i didn't even know that you could import an image till i came here. A radom terrain generator would be nice too.

[Mogwai1313 2]

The random terrain generator would be a cool idea. I have no problem with downloading maps but it would be cool if the game could come up with new landmasses on its own. I would also like to see more options when it comes to the civics part of the game, such as taxes, laws, ordinances, and whatnot.

[longhorn 25]

I think the NAM may have killed SC4 expansion.  It effectively adds most things you would want from an expansion pack of the current game.  There are certainly many new things available for SC5, but it would be hard to add much more to SC4 short of more networks.  Subway lines, bus lines, etc. are not gonna happen without a overhaul, which wouldn't be worth it.  With so many excellent BAT models, a pack for just buildings would be a waste of time as well.

 The other thing EA would have to consider would be supporting the NAM.  If their pack didn't work with the NAM then many people would go with the NAM over the EA expansion, myself included.  That would be an unacceptable failure for them, so its easier to move on to the next game, and hopefully SC5.

[sparkythepenguin 90]

I agree, the ability that we have with BAT and modding, have pretty much made EP's impossible. Maxis has been really modder-friendly later in SC4's life. I'm hoping that SC5 would come out with all the features of SC4+RH, plus have BAT and modding support from the get-go.

If there is any potential for any type of EP for SC4, it'd be some sort of modding add-on. If it were possible, I'd love to see Maxis add some more draggable transportation networks to SC4. Don't know how feasable that is, but draggable GLR, Pedways, busways, and ferry routes would be nice additions. If they could add a few extra placeholder draggables for whatever else the modders could come up with (ala ANT), that would be cool too. But I doubt we see that. It's probably best for Maxis to go for SC5, if what we're doing here hasn't killed that idea.

Another thing: I read somewhere that Will Wright wanted the next SC5 to be more basic, easier to play. Is that true? If it tanks, I'm sticking with SC4...

[Tarkus 6,933]

Yes, I had heard that Will Wright had said that he wanted to get "back to basics" with SC5.  You all may be right about the NAM.  If they aren't going to be releasing a new version, what's the likelihood of Maxis eventually letting us mod the EXE?  I know of some other game companies that after a certain period of time, allow certain groups to do that. 

[Romitelli 0]

I think sim city fails miserably in one point:

personality

I know that it's almost impossible to select a personality for each sim in your city, however it would be very interesting if neighborhoods or even whole cities could take on an especific type of behaviour.

For example, cities with a extense farming tradition that suddenly turns high-tech will have some trouble adapting to new habits.

Or cities with a large waterfront will be more inclined to beaches and waterfront houses.

Sims with a wide variety of education and culture would demand a lot more than ignorant sims

and so forth

we don't want a city made up of robots...

[mightygoose 92]

now theres an idea romitelli

[iquere 2]

I've got some ideas:

- In The Sims 2, you can tilt your camera so that you can see everything from above (if you're in the Buy or Build mode). That would be great in SC4. I have problems with SimCity 4 in that I accidentually destroys several skyscrapers just because I can't see which is road and which is a building. I hate that.

- 3D, but not so that it slows down the game too much.

- A easier way to make your own lots (now you have to use G-MAX and the Lot Editor and so on)

- A way to terraform in the region view.

- Random region function.

- Commute times! Sims are travelling in 3 meters per hour! Argh!

If I come up with anything more, I'll add it to this list.

[Palpatine001 57]

REGIONAL PLAY

Regional play needs be more developed.

Such as one airport to service the region's cities like an international airport, then smaller aerodrome for other areas. Same with ports

Also a new tier of government known as Regional Senate. This could look after thinks like the international airport, and trans regional highway or rail links. This regional highway system could be say a super 8 lane highway connecting one area of the region to another eg to large cities on opposite ends of the map. This highway would have huge capacity and an oper speed limit.

Also regional class power plants. Build a few of these and the entire region's cities can be power by local cities buying power of the regional grid - better then building plants in every city. Same applies here for water and and rubbish

The Regional government gets its income through taxing the cities on a per population basis and any purchasing of power, water and regional garbage dumpage use, while it has to maintain all of the previous incl regional class highways and rail and other boosters such as regional parks, airports etc.

Good ideas for SC5

[Kippis05 2]

Personally, I think that an expansion pack for SC4 would be out of the question. I do though think that despite SC4 being an incredible city simulation game already, I wouldn't doubt or be surprised if a new version of sim city was realeased within the next few years. Several years ago, I wouldn't imagine a Sim City 4, because I was still preoccupied with Sim City 3000.

Defenatley adding a more user friendly BAT would be at the peak of my intrest. Also, adding in a more realistic simulation engine such as a common problem I have: the same building being constructed next to eachother so you have an entire block of gas stations would definatley be something to think about. Or Sims' biggest problem: commuting. Commuting is, in my opinion, the most heart-wrenching part of being Mayor. If a worker can't walk more than one block without needing mass transit or a car than the nightmare begins. Real cities don't always have commercial zones readily available for a short commute from home.

Regions are also something that need to be tweaked. Just some points:

-Being able to terraform an entire region without the hassle of entering each city square individually.

-Being able to rotate the region view so you can view it from different angles.

-Or a region being more unified with utilities, regional policies, and government.

That's all I have for now, but there are many possibilites for SC5.

[Karybdis 34]

Well.....there certainly are a lot of suggestions in here. I guess I might as well chime in.

In all likelyhood, Simcity5 will be released in fall 2007 to fall 2008 timeframe, likely around christmas 07 basing on when they started production (after Rush hour since companies always start the next game as soon as they can) and the timeframe to develop a game. (I am still hoping for summer 07 mind you, but I doubt it)

So.. What can we expect realistically?

• Weather (The weather engine was implemented but left incompleted this version)
• Rivers (Implemented, but incompleted due to time restriction. they had erosion etc)
• Drastically improved water (3d water with reflections, as this is standard)
• Dirt Roads (implemented but incomplete)
• Considerably Improved Texturing
• More regional interaction. Improved regional transit and trade
• Improved Transit simulation. probably not a new pathfinder, but more transit purposes
• Multiple Terrain Types (implemented but not finished in SC4 - forgot this last night)

What is possible for stuff we may see?

• Individualized sims, who each have wants. This fits in with mysims.
• Complex roads. Roads with more curvier appearances.
• More flora/Fauna.
• Driveways, and parking.
• POSSIBLY more views, or even full 3d...Maxis are perfectionists though, so unlikely
• Several new transit types at launch. (Not 20 as people seem to want)
• True reflection/light scattering from the light sources (sun, lamps, etc)

Anything else?

Its likely that everything will get a general overhaul and will work better. The game will be an evolution technically, and closer to a revolution graphically in realism, even if only after we modders do our work on it.

Will it be full 3D?

Ahh the big question.

The answer is that is already IS full 3D?

But why can't I move the camera?

Because that much power would require a supercomputer to render realtime.

Quick and dirty on the existing 3d engine:

The engine is fixed viewpoint 3d. Its a full 3d engine with 3d buildings, roads, cars etc. Even sims, which are technically sprites move around in 3d boxes, trees are contained in 3d boxes, etc. However, the buildings require far too much power to render in their current quality in realtime, so they use LOD technology in a sense. Meaning if you move the camera, which I'm sure maxis can do even though we cant, it'll look bad.

But City Life is full 3d and looks good!

City life does NOT look as good as Simcity 4. It does look quite impressive at times, and the water kicks the crud off simcity, however the buildings are far lower quality and not as dynamic. Doing city life quality for the sake of removing the fixed viewpoint limiting would be going BACKWARDS in graphics. Maxis has stated they will not do that.....I give it personally 75/50 for changing on whether the fixed point is removed however, as there is tons of pressure from other developers.... if they can withstand it, SC5 will look much better.

But the game should have tons more stuff, because its the next version!

Maxis does not have the time or money to remake the game from scratch AND add in tons and tons and tons more than it had in the previous version. If they did, we'd see the game in 2012 instead of 2007/2008. Its likely we'll see a lot of the ideas that are posted here and a lot of new stuff in general, but not ones like "Every kind of transport" implemented. Its far more likely we'll see a lot of improved features, than a lot of new ones.

Remember, Evolution, not Revolution ;-).

For those interested, there are a couple of really great articles by the "Microsoft Flight Simulator" development team for how to make suggestions, and what is realistic in a future product. Obviously this applies to FS more than SC5, but the ideas are the same.

http://blogs.msdn.com/tdragger/archive/2006/02/11/530201.aspx (The MYTH of "It should be simple to...")

http://blogs.msdn.com/tdragger/archive/2006/01/23/516681.aspx (How to write a feature suggestion)

I think anyone interested in SC5 should read those two articles and see how they apply to the game.

Phew. long post

[soldyne 111]

I feel I should chime in here.

I am actually not ready for a SC5 yet. I like SC4 and all it has to offer. I have learned so much and have so much more yet to learn. with all the new stuff being uploaded on the STEX every day and all the mods that have been created for the game (NAM et.al.) it really is a different game now than when it was originally released.

I have a CJ now and have only just begun to build my dream region. if they released SC5 anytime soon i would feel like i was playing an old, obsolete game.

I would like to see a SC5 someday down the road but right now SC4 gives me all the city building I can handle.

[Tarkus 6,933]

Originally posted by: soldyne I feel I should chime in here.

I am actually not ready for a SC5 yet. I like SC4 and all it has to offer. I have learned so much and have so much more yet to learn. with all the new stuff being uploaded on the STEX every day and all the mods that have been created for the game (NAM et.al.) it really is a different game now than when it was originally released.

I have a CJ now and have only just begun to build my dream region. if they released SC5 anytime soon i would feel like i was playing an old, obsolete game.

I would like to see a SC5 someday down the road but right now SC4 gives me all the city building I can handle.quote>

I totally agree, soldyne.  I think there's probably more mods on the horizon, stuff we would have never imagined possible.  Maxis/EA should eventually release the source code in a few years and let us go bat crazy (no pun intended) with modding!  They seem too preoccupied with other projects, anyway at this time to really make an SC5.  All the stuff Will Wright was talking about before about SC5 was before he really started in with The Sims 2 and Spore, so who knows.  Only time will tell.

[venuism 0]

I would love to see Regional Terraforming, More Buildings, Regional Airports, Regional Utilitiy Suply, and random awards; such as a buisness entroipener's wanting to build factories that will suply a more realistic amount of jobs, wanting to build skyscrapers that provide thousands of jobs, olympic villages, world cup stadiums...... I could go on and on!

[Condraz23 0]

More building styles, better use of bus stops, less bugs, and curved roads would be nice. However, curved roads would also be very difficult to implement and design as you would no longer be dealing with a strict grid-based system.

Seeing as though Will Wright is obsessed with his new Spore program and Maxis is concentrating all their efforts on The Sims 2 franchise, it's going to take a while for the new SimCity 5 to be properly developed and released.

[Palpatine001 57]

Wow it's amazing to see all these suggestions.

I wunder though if maxis did release the source code to SC4 + RH, how much of these ideas such as more developed regional play or eg other structures b4 requiring a total overhaul and SC5 to be made sooner.

But for the mean time I offer my continous applause to Simtropolis for making SC4 + RH a much more enjoyable game to play (and experiement with )

And for my idea at the moment

MORE developed regional play such as regional terraforming, structures, government and infrastructure

[Condraz23 0]

Regional terraforming would be a major plus. Because of SimCity 4's non-existent regional terraforming options, it's very hard for me to make a fully-functional region. Too many blank black boxes everywhere.

Also, if SimCity 4 was released as open-source software, we would probably have over a hundred variants and millions of modifications done to the game, to the point where Maxis will lose control of its own game and be unable to release the next version.

[manu-fan 0]

Hi,

One thing I'd really like to see is:

Noise

That's right. I don't want to live next to a Freeway etc. not because of Pollution, but because of noise.

I don't know if this has been mentioned before. If so, sorry.

Cheers.

[Architects Asylum 0]

Perhaps a Building system simlar to the one in Black and White 2?

[buckbeach 8]

Originally posted by: Tarkus

Originally posted by: soldyne I feel I should chime in here.

I am actually not ready for a SC5 yet. I like SC4 and all it has to offer. I have learned so much and have so much more yet to learn. with all the new stuff being uploaded on the STEX every day and all the mods that have been created for the game (NAM et.al.) it really is a different game now than when it was originally released.

I have a CJ now and have only just begun to build my dream region. if they released SC5 anytime soon i would feel like i was playing an old, obsolete game.

I would like to see a SC5 someday down the road but right now SC4 gives me all the city building I can handle.quote>

I totally agree, soldyne.  I think there's probably more mods on the horizon, stuff we would have never imagined possible.  Maxis/EA should eventually release the source code in a few years and let us go bat crazy (no pun intended) with modding!  They seem too preoccupied with other projects, anyway at this time to really make an SC5.  All the stuff Will Wright was talking about before about SC5 was before he really started in with The Sims 2 and Spore, so who knows.  Only time will tell.quote>

Screwed up and didn't put my 2 cents worth in.  WHO NEEDS SIMCITY 5!!!   I really think that a SC5 would lay waste to all the wonderful work that has been done to improve the SC4 experience.  Imagine starting over from scratch BATs/Lots/Mods/Maps etc etc.  What we really need is a release of the code for our genuses to make further improvements and changes.  However, that is very, very unlikely to happen.

So I would like to see a consortum of our communities most respected contributors (and moderators), and there are many from all over the globe from many different sites, ban together and approach EA for an update package too include only the most important/needed items.  If kept simple enough they might just do it.  They could make it a download revision only, to save packaging costs and charge for it accordingly.  Other game companys (ie Matrix) have done this.  I guess we all have items we think would need to be include and we could wish for the moon making it more unlikely for the update.  

My number one want/wish/need is to have fully operational and game compatible ploppable BAT and Lot capabilites.

Like any of this is likely to happen but we can only hope.  .

[paperboy15 4]

Originally posted by: Condraz23 Regional terraforming would be a major plus. Because of SimCity 4's non-existent regional terraforming options, it's very hard for me to make a fully-functional region. Too many blank black boxes everywhere.

Also, if SimCity 4 was released as open-source software, we would probably have over a hundred variants and millions of modifications done to the game, to the point where Maxis will lose control of its own game and be unable to release the next version.quote>

 

I don't see why this would cause Maxis (EA) to lose control of its own game. Sounds a bit ridiculous, eh? Just because there might be over a hundred variants, that would have little effect on Maxis' ability to create a new version. Besides, even if there were over a hundred variants there would only be a few that would be widely-used.

[paperboy15 4]

Originally posted by: manu-fan Hi,

One thing I'd really like to see is:

Noise

That's right. I don't want to live next to a Freeway etc. not because of Pollution, but because of noise.

I don't know if this has been mentioned before. If so, sorry.

Cheers.quote>

 

Hmm...isn't this already in SC4 RH?? If you query a building it will tell you if the traffic noise is low, medium, or high (something to that effect). I'm not 100% positive, but I'm pretty sure that traffic noise already affects desirability.

[Palpatine001 57]

Yes the querry on traffic noise can be found by querring any residential lot.

Just remember residents hate noise (high traffic volumes) where commerce loves it.

Have fun while I cram 200,000 sims into a medium size city (and its still expanding)

[Condraz23 0]

Originally posted by: paperboy15

Originally posted by: Condraz23 Regional terraforming would be a major plus. Because of SimCity 4's non-existent regional terraforming options, it's very hard for me to make a fully-functional region. Too many blank black boxes everywhere.

Also, if SimCity 4 was released as open-source software, we would probably have over a hundred variants and millions of modifications done to the game, to the point where Maxis will lose control of its own game and be unable to release the next version.quote>

 

I don't see why this would cause Maxis (EA) to lose control of its own game. Sounds a bit ridiculous, eh? Just because there might be over a hundred variants, that would have little effect on Maxis' ability to create a new version. Besides, even if there were over a hundred variants there would only be a few that would be widely-used.quote>

Travold Linus lost control of his own operating system as other companies and organizations continued to sell and release different versions of it. Once a piece of software is released as open-source, no-one can actually  own it. Maxis will be dealing with quickly-advancing software and over a hundred different competitors, most of the variants will also probably be free. The original SimCity 4 from Maxis would be nothing more than easily-downloadable abandonware.

Plus, as each different version continues to be upgraded every month with better graphics, better gameplay, and a new selection of options, how would Maxis be able to keep up?

Anyway, another thing I would like to see on SimCity 5 is the option to actually see the time progress within your city. Such as street-cars, steam trains, and wooden ocean liners in the early 1900's. Weather options and improved graphics would be nice. A full 3-D first-person walk around the city would also be very cool.

[Tarkus 6,933]

Originally posted by: Condraz23

I don't see why this would cause Maxis (EA) to lose control of its own game. Sounds a bit ridiculous, eh? Just because there might be over a hundred variants, that would have little effect on Maxis' ability to create a new version. Besides, even if there were over a hundred variants there would only be a few that would be widely-used.quote>

Travold Linus lost control of his own operating system as other companies and organizations continued to sell and release different versions of it. Once a piece of software is released as open-source, no-one can actually  own it. Maxis will be dealing with quickly-advancing software and over a hundred different competitors, most of the variants will also probably be free. The original SimCity 4 from Maxis would be nothing more than easily-downloadable abandonware.

Plus, as each different version continues to be upgraded every month with better graphics, better gameplay, and a new selection of options, how would Maxis be able to keep up?quote>

Well, Condraz23, there's other methods out there besides making it totally open-source.  I know of several game companies who have allowed certain groups of people to have access to the source-code to produce substantial modifications, without making them completely open-source.  Some have even let the modifications be released as free, standalone programs that don't require the original . . . games that are only 3-4 years old.  In that case, they would still have a good deal of control, but allow the modification and improvement of the game to move forward, though I don't get the standalone deal . . . I guess they developers/publishers don't think they're going to make any money off of it.  I don't think Maxis will go that far, though, as the game is still on the market.